Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sybill 04-03-07, 01:45 PM	Ok, short version first, then full details for those with the time. Basically, our DM has been hurting the party from the very beginning. His game is still fun to play, but it has also become emotionally exhausting to play as a character who just cannot succeed. The second adventure we ever played, my character came home to find her village burned, her mother and sister abducted, and her brother tortured and slaughtered in a sacrificial manner by a person known as SD... and it just got worse from there. Worse? you say... She ends up finding a magic sword that is so powerful it takes over her mind. She finally gets rid of the sword and develops severe multiple personality disorder (to the point where I was actually playing two characters, one the original TN rogue, the other a LE cleric). Her alternate personality sacrifices the party paladin, who happened to be in love with her. She finds out that SD, the one who killed her brother and stole her sister and mother, is actually her true mother, the other being a surrogate. Her love interest is killed by SD. SD is almost god-like in power, so she can't do anything about what she's done. The sword comes back and takes over her mind again. Then, she loses the sword, and was basically treated as having a horrible addiction and played with severe penalties for the next few battles. Herself and three of her party members, the only ones that survived since the beginning are now tainted with this disease-like condition that makes you part of "the collective", a hive-mind sort of horrible collection of creatures, of which SD is a member. One of them is so far gone that there is no coming back. Upon talking to her mother, SD, she's found out that the party has been playing into her plans all along, without knowing it. Instead of hurting her, we've been helping her, and we don't know how or why. Her best friend was just turned to stone, presumably forever, since there is really no one who can cast the stone to flesh or miracle or wish or whatever to turn him back. Now, I don't know whether I should just scrap the character, or if there's a way to come back from all this. No matter how much you differentiate between game and reality, there is still some connection with the characters, and playing a character like this, who basically gets dumped on over and over and over again is, like I said, emotionally exhausting. Should I just make a new character? Or is there a viable way for this character to be redeemed? At this point, she's almost suicidal anyway. Any advice appreciated. Edit: I forgot the part where we went to Celestia for help with our "disease" and got turned away, to the point of Hound archons actually attacking two CG characters and my one TN because we weren't welcome there.
Sarrazon 04-03-07, 01:49 PM	Just a question, are you the only one getting boned like this, or is it everyone? About the character, i'd say if you're sick of playing, retire her and make a new one. I suggest your character snapping and attacking SD head on.
Sybill 04-03-07, 01:55 PM	No, it's not just me, it actually seems like bad stuff happens to all the characters, though my character gets hit the hardest. The only problem with attacking SD is that she's so powerful that it wouldn't even matter, and would probably just get my character further diseased, whereas killing herself would probably accomplish more, since then SD wouldn't be able to use her anymore. Not that I'm ruling out attacking SD, it just seems like another exercise in futility.
Sarrazon 04-03-07, 01:57 PM	Well, it seems more like a statement than anything else. She'd prolly kill you, and it's essentially saying "This person has done so much evil to my character that I'm going to do my best to kill her even if it kills me."
AffableDoomwalker 04-03-07, 02:03 PM	I'm sorry. I just laughed for a whole five minutes after reading all of that. I'm thinking one of two things is going on here: 1) Excellent backstory for a new campaign your DM has planned, where your current party fails, and you re-roll with a new group of adventurers hell-bent on restoring order and stopping this "SD." 2) You allowed all of this stuff to happen to you via implied consent. It sounds like you were in a heavy RP game, and you either crafted a "live" character history (I.E. your village is here, your parents live here, you can stop in and see them anytime you like, "there's the school I went to when I was 3", etc), or allowed the DM to craft one for you (which is a no-no in my book, and I DM more than I play). In a lot of cases thats asking for it. Considering the way the campaign sounds right now... I'd pray for the first option, and then find a way to die heroically. If you keep going at this rate your best (and possibly only) bet is deus ex machina, possibly literally. And thats no good.
Urborg_necromancer 04-03-07, 02:11 PM	As much as I hate to say it it seems like your DM is kind of power tripping. While it is nice to have your players be motivated to present them with an unconquerable villian from the very beginning is a little rough. I can't help but think if this "SD" is so powerful then why is she so concerned with your specific group, especially if this has been since lv. 1. Try expressing your concerns to your DM and see if you can't have some sort of compromise to make playing more enjoyable. After all D&D is about having fun.
IceFractal 04-03-07, 02:28 PM	Well, sometimes you can't change the campaign, so you have to change the character. Sounds like the time for a Cultist of Dust, a character type useful for situations like this. 1) The basic belief of the Order of Dust is that the world is fated to end, sooner rather than later. As such, the only thing one can do is experience as much as possible before that happens. 2) Bad experiences are still experiences - a fully enlightened member would be happy to be nailed to a tree, launched into the air, and barbequed by a dragon, as that is certainly a very unique experience. 3) The Cultist has no living family, he was raised by the Order. If the Order were destroyed, he might be a bit depressed, but not too much - this proves their principles, after all. And like cockroaches, they'll be back eventually. So when the going gets bad, you start smiling. Laugh in the face of demon lords. Whistle a jaunty tune when the duke of pain captures you. Grin when your arm gets possessed by pseudonatural entities. Not because you're immune to any of it, but because things are just as they should be. Note: This is often quite an effective way to **** off sadistic DMs, but is a bit two-dimensional for roleplaying purposes. Still, it could be a good vacation from tragedy, and maybe even change the campaign a bit.
Xavorin 04-03-07, 03:11 PM	Ok, short version first, then full details for those with the time. Basically, our DM has been hurting the party from the very beginning. His game is still fun to play, but it has also become emotionally exhausting to play as a character who just cannot succeed. The second adventure we ever played, my character came home to find her village burned, her mother and sister abducted, and her brother tortured and slaughtered in a sacrificial manner by a person known as SD... and it just got worse from there. Worse? you say... She ends up finding a magic sword that is so powerful it takes over her mind. She finally gets rid of the sword and develops severe multiple personality disorder (to the point where I was actually playing two characters, one the original TN rogue, the other a LE cleric). Her alternate personality sacrifices the party paladin, who happened to be in love with her. She finds out that SD, the one who killed her brother and stole her sister and mother, is actually her true mother, the other being a surrogate. Her love interest is killed by SD. SD is almost god-like in power, so she can't do anything about what she's done. The sword comes back and takes over her mind again. Then, she loses the sword, and was basically treated as having a horrible addiction and played with severe penalties for the next few battles. Herself and three of her party members, the only ones that survived since the beginning are now tainted with this disease-like condition that makes you part of "the collective", a hive-mind sort of horrible collection of creatures, of which SD is a member. One of them is so far gone that there is no coming back. Upon talking to her mother, SD, she's found out that the party has been playing into her plans all along, without knowing it. Instead of hurting her, we've been helping her, and we don't know how or why. Her best friend was just turned to stone, presumably forever, since there is really no one who can cast the stone to flesh or miracle or wish or whatever to turn him back. Now, I don't know whether I should just scrap the character, or if there's a way to come back from all this. No matter how much you differentiate between game and reality, there is still some connection with the characters, and playing a character like this, who basically gets dumped on over and over and over again is, like I said, emotionally exhausting. Should I just make a new character? Or is there a viable way for this character to be redeemed? At this point, she's almost suicidal anyway. Any advice appreciated. Edit: I forgot the part where we went to Celestia for help with our "disease" and got turned away, to the point of Hound archons actually attacking two CG characters and my one TN because we weren't welcome there. I'd say that your DM has a great campaign idea that he's put into play... to a point. It seems to me that he's taken it a step or two too far: He's victimized your characters SO much that it's not fun. I'd first ask the rest of the group if they feel the same way. Then, if they do, as a group talk to your DM. Tell him your complaints, but make sure it doesn't seem like you're attacking him. Then, if he still doesn't change his ways, I'd get the group together and start your own group. To be honest though, if it was me I'd most likely just up-and-go. Make sure it's very obvious why I left, and word it in a way that the rest of the group would leave too. I'd just be that ticked off. I feel bad for you, man. Hope my advice helps.
DMsDelight 04-03-07, 03:25 PM	Heh, if you're ever in the mood to roll up a new chaaracter, go out with a bang: Buy things that go boom, charge SD, and do as much collateral damage as possible. Then, when the DM gets mad or looks at you dumbfounded, say: "I was just RPing my character. You have just made him insane. Now, I'm rolling up his insane brother. Don't mess with him, he's worse." Then, feel free to cackle maniacly.
Magnus029 04-03-07, 03:28 PM	As a DM I have done some "victimizing" of players, but NEVER to this extent, I have put players in very rough situations typically to get a RP response from them and never does it go unnoticed and somewhere down the road the player is "rewarded" for enduring the tragedy. Constant downers though would just suck and be no fun, I am depressed enough in RL and one reason I game is to get away from that, if this were to happen to me on a regular basis I would be gone.
E_Morrow 04-03-07, 03:43 PM	Hello, former paladin here. The campaign in question is actually a fairly decent one in theory. The problem is more in the execution of it, in which deux ex machina occurs regularly and there is a liberal sprinkling of the phrase “God says so” on the DM’s part. As far as just leaving the game, it doesn’t seem to have any effect. Heck, when my character finally got fed up with everything, I informed the DM before one of the sessions that he should start making plans for when the paladin left the group and he didn’t even blink an eye. I didn’t even bother to stay for the rest of the game when he was killed either, I just gathered my stuff and left. The subject of players leaving the game still hasn’t come up.
Zandolit 04-03-07, 03:44 PM	Now, I don't know whether I should just scrap the character, or if there's a way to come back from all this. No matter how much you differentiate between game and reality, there is still some connection with the characters, and playing a character like this, who basically gets dumped on over and over and over again is, like I said, emotionally exhausting. I really, really know how that feels. I got to that point with my favourite character I ever had. You put a lot of thought and effort into this character, and it seems like they get smacked down over and over with no hope of winning. Yeah, I definitely know how that feels. It feels wretched. What I did, and what I would recommend someone else in the same situation should do: 1.) Talk to your DM, and tell them you're not having as good a time as you could be. The point of this is to be fun, not emotionally exhausting, so if you aren't enjoying yourself, the DM needs to ease up. Don't treat it as an accusation, obviously-- the DM hasn't done anything wrong-- but do let the DM know how you feel about what's going on in the game. The DM has to balance between making the world as they see fit and what the players will enjoy. If the second part of that isn't happening, the DM needs to know. I suspect once the DM realizes the extent of the problem, either you'll get some reassurance that you have the ability to work things out in the end, or the DM will switch things up a little. Communication really is key. When I was having the situation with my character, I didn't see any way it could end well. After talking to my DM about it, I felt a lot more confident about what my character could accomplish, and that I'd have access to the resources to do it. At best, you'll get some reassurance; if nothing else, at least the DM will know what's going on and maybe rethink some things to make the game more fun in the future. 2.) Take some time to think it over before making any drastic decisions. Wait till that sinking hopeless feeling right after something bad happens is gone, take a step back, and think things over. Don't make major, potentially life or career ending choices for your character in the heat of the moment if you can help it. 3.) What would your character do? As exhausted as I was by stuff that happened to my character, I realized she wouldn't want to give up, and that I wasn't being true to my character if I just had her slink away or do something suicidal. In order for me to be happy with the character's story, I had to let her find some sort of resolution. You may come to a different conclusion, but that's the one I reached. I really hope stuff starts to go better for you in your campaign. I know how upsetting and frustrating it can be, but my character eventually was "rewarded" for her efforts, and I hope yours will too. Good luck! :) To be a little more specific about what happened to my character, if you're interested. It's really long, so don't feel you have to bother, but in case you were curious... (It has a happy ending. :)) After months of adventuring, she was betrayed, attacked, and almost killed by a fellow party member during a major battle (the party member was not Dominated or anything, just decided working for our opponents was a better scene,) sucked through a portal to a strange new world as a result of actions taken innocently by the party, had to come to terms with that and figure out how to continue to work with the person who betrayed her, which she had to for reasons I won't bother to get into. Another former party member turned NPC was kidnapped, and my character died trying to save him. The Spirits brought her back to life, but because she was the party healer, the time she was dead and then unconscious meant the person we were trying to save died from his injuries (he had been tortured nearly to death but was still alive,) and another PC party member also died. My character was also unintentionally responsible for the death of an NPC who was a total bystander and shouldn't have been involved at all. Shortly thereafter, my character gave some of her blood to help fix what the party had broken that made the two worlds get messed up. And... that's when things started to get hopeless. ;) The two worlds collided and merged permanently, functionally resulting in an apocalypse where economic, political, and social systems collapsed. To make things even better, this merging resulted in the release of a chaotic evil god who wanted to subdue all life and thrived on chaos, which the apocalypse created in spades. So, we had that to deal with. (Oh, and we were level 9, by the way. ;)) Said chaotic god did not have a body, and so decided to invade and possess one of the NPCs... specifically, the one my character loved (though she had not made him aware of that fact,) so she got to feel guilty about that, too-- both that it happened and that we were going to have to kill said NPC to fight the god. The god started having a tainting affect on people, taking away their will. When their will was gone, the person became a minion. My character's PC best friend came within one will point of suffering this fate. And it was my character's blood that did this-- blood she gave trying to make things better. It was meant to be a good act, but it resulted in evil and pain for the people my character cared most about. Because of insanity and overconfidence split evenly between the player and the character, we still thought things were going to be OK. My character started working her behind off (with the help of her friend) to lessen the chaos and make people happy. It was working. It took a lot of effort, but the evil god was weakening somewhat (though it was still a god and we were still level 9.) Then everything fell apart. We had a big New Year's party intended to be a major blow against the god and way to rally the community. During this event, most of our party went insane. Not, like, evil-god-induced insane, just randomly deciding to mess things up of their own accord. They started attacking innocents and each other. All the people at our event got scared and ran away. Which made... yeah... chaos. And apparently undid all my character's effort in a few short moments. That's when I felt the hopelessness you described. Up till that moment, I still thought everything could turn out OK in spite of the fact we were up against a basically unbeatable opponent... but then my own party wasn't even behind me, and had just destroyed everything I'd worked so hard for. (Except the one friend I mentioned, she never stopped being loyal.) I saw no way my character could win. She was just going to slowly lose everything, and then die knowing all the evil that had happened was her fault. I really, really liked that character, and I wanted her to have a better ending than that. It was pretty frustrating. So even though my problems were party-induced rather than caused by the DM, I talked to the DM about how I felt about the game. And so on, as described above. That campaign is finished now, so I can provide an epilogue to it: My character went back to reducing chaos, and it turned out we hadn't lost as much ground as it appeared (so the effort wasn't completely wasted after all.) We fought the chaotic god, and though it was a really tough fight (still level 9!) and we had many losses, we won in the end. My party ended up getting it together and helping with the battle, and the NPC backup party the DM provided just in case didn't have to replace them after all, so PCs still got center stage. And on a more personal note, though we did indeed have to kill the NPC my character loved and in spite of the fact my character had almost no money (not because of having spent it; we just never acquired much because of the setting so we were way below Wealth By Level,) some nice high level clerics decided after all that work my character deserved some reward, so were willing to provide a Resurrection in exchange for what money my character did have. Her feelings for the NPC turned out to be mutual (and he apparently didn't blame her for the bad stuff that happened,) and they eventually got married and were quite happy, though the world they lived in was still far from perfect. All this to say, my character got her happy ending, and I hope yours will too even though things are looking bleak. :)
mato_hibiki 04-03-07, 08:08 PM	I suggest going an entirely different way, something no one would see coming. Give up. Now, I don't mean just lay down and die, but give up your quest. Forget revenge, forget the world, and everyone you ever cared for, save your current party. Gather up what little you have, and just start trying to scrounge a living for yourself amidst all of this trouble. When confronted by forces of whichever side, fight tooth and nail to resist them forcing their will upon you. If or, when asked what you fight for, simply reply with: "I just want to go my own way." And, naturally, if asked by anyone if you actually care about anything, then- "I look out for me and mine. That don't include you 'less I conjure it does. Don't push me, and I won't push back." Life becomes more interesting if you channel a bit of Mal Reynolds. You could always buy a boat and name is Serenity. *Hums the ballad of Serenity to himself.* Enjoy your new life, I hope it's interesting.
TheCrawlingSpleen 04-04-07, 04:22 AM	It might also help to acquire a boat crew containing a mentally disturbed Telepath, a Barbarian, a pretty, cheerful Artificer :inlove:, a stoic Fighter, a divine class of some kind with a mysterious background and a slightly odd helmsman (an Expert?) Of course, if you aren't playing Captain Mal, you may want to go in a different direction. ;)
Black Kitten 04-04-07, 04:50 AM	Let's see: - Character is CN/LE *check* - Character has seen suffering beyond reason *check* - Character has little to no chance to succeed *check* - Character's actions will work adverse to her, her friends and the world *check* No good or evil character has anything to gain from this. She will have no peace, no satisfaction, nothing. Without hope, there is no life. If I were playing this character, I'd have her commit suicide. Talk to your DM, explain the situation and especially explain that when there is no hope, no future and no reward, there is no reason to live and many reasons to die. There are gods in these worlds, curse the witch, curse the sword that all they do, will work against them. A curse that all they will do will further the cause of good and diminish their evil. You might be CN, but you don't gain from this. Even if you hate the world and only love yourself, be true to the love you have for yourself. But especially remember: It's a game. Do not allow this game to take any higher toll than a ruined evening :P
bob_the_great 04-04-07, 07:07 AM	not nearly as bad as this, but i was once in a game where the DM was very harsh. every BBEG was a little too powerful for us to fully defeat (and they could pop up later at any time). we'd have to make story altering decisions just to survive, giving up on our goals rather than keep moving forward towards our death. I was very into my character and greatly frustrated with the fact that every time I climed a hill a mountain came into view. well finally one session just when things start going a little better, the DM delivers a punch to the gut. I lost it. I was half angry and half desperate, but fully out of control (verbally). When I was done with my rant the DM looked up at me a little confused. He had no idea about the frustration which had been weighing me down, and started allowing little victories within the game to make me feel like I was not in fact powerless in his world. I guess my point is that the DM may not be aware of how you feel and may be willing to do something about it. If the DM is just a sadist you might want to think about converting to the dark side. Rather than constantly pushing that boulder up hill push it the other way (it's much easier!). Join the bad guys. Kill innocents. Pillage and plunder. You can be like Anakin but less whiney. As much trauma as your character has suffered can easily lead to mania. Going forward, you are not necessarily bound by anything to do with who you've been in the past. It might not be heroic, but it would probably be more fun (until the world suddenly changes because you've started enjoying yourself, which obviously isn't allowed).
Elsydeon 04-04-07, 01:27 PM	Make Pun-Pun
DaidojiTaidoru 04-04-07, 02:19 PM	Step 1: Tell your GM you aren't having fun constantly losing. This may seem strange, but some players enjoy watching their characters slowly get crushed to dust under the wieght of an uncaring world. Tell the GM you aren't one of them. Step 2: If the GM still thinks that the only valid form of character development is suffering, leave, for your own sanity. It won't get better, and unlike a WoD game (where I first encountered these types of GMs/Players) you don't have the superpowers to go out with an earth shattering bang for your own amusement.
Daydreamer 04-04-07, 02:22 PM	Does your dm have depression issues? like seriously i know a dm who was like this and she had major personal problems. Secondaly-ask your dm to run published adventures, or offer to dm yourself. If your dms the reasonable type get your fellow players opinions and then maybe confront her about it in whatever way u find appriopriate.
Pyritefoolsgold 04-04-07, 04:39 PM	joining the bad guys might be a very good idea, especially since they happen to have control of everything your character cares about. Of course, if you wanted to you could actually be lying about it the entire time and just waiting for the perfect moment to slit your own mother's throat. But "If you can't beat em, join em" seems a perfect example of CN logic.
Voldar_Mecorthio 04-04-07, 09:40 PM	You're DM is being a sadist. The best cure is Voldar's Four Step Plan for Total Campaign Dominance 1. Commit suicide in highly elaborite fashion. I recomend hiring as many 1st level wizards/sorcerers, buying an equal amount of scrolls of Delayed Blast Fireball, seek out SD, have them all cast it... on you. Run toward SD. Enjoy the massive explosion. 2. In non-game time, visit the Character Optomization Board, or the Theoretical Optomization board if you want your DM to have a small heart attack. Find a character you like that is adequitly overpowered. 3. Roll up this new character you have descovered. 4. Pwn all.
danielinthewolvesden 04-04-07, 10:45 PM	There's two ways you can do this. OOC or IC. OOC sit down with your DM and talk it out like adults. Show him this thread. IC, you go mato_hibiki suggestion. You have your PC say IC "All this sadness and tragedy has gotten me to the point where I just give up." Then have the PC sit down and refuse to move or do anything- eat, drink sleep, etc.
johnny_reb_21 04-04-07, 11:42 PM	just goin out on a limb but if SD was your real mother and the one your char knew growin up was a surrogate it is poss she kidnapped you whatever and your real mother went insane from your loss its poss you are the key to her ggaining her mind back and not destroying the planet...perhaps the family you "knew" were just grooming you for some evil and terrible means and this SD is actually tryin to help you albeit it in a terrifyingly overpowered way..yeah it sux and i can feel ya...but imagine what happens if you embrace the fact your SD's kid and if she has that kinda power it should be in you as well
CaptainPicard 04-05-07, 02:56 AM	Here is another option: Roleplay the character to go completely insane. Not "kill you all" psychopath insane, but a more... Gentle insane. The next time something ironically tragic happens to your character, have the normal response she would have occur. Then, have her realize the ridiculous level of misfortune the world has leveled on her, then have her burst out laughing. From this moment on, laugh at everything that happens, no matter how inappropriate it is, don't bat an eye at the direst threats to yourself and the people the character "loves", and act as an impartial observer to the world at large. You don't even have to quit the group - all that happens is your motivation changes from whatever it is now to just "going along for the ride". I've played this kind of character before, and I can tell you it's a great deal of fun. Just expect your DM to get upset with you out of game if your character points out some stupid little detail and laughs in an otherwise emotional scene (or laughs at other's emotional responses). But it seems this DM has it coming anyway. If you want a shorter path to complete insanity, have the character trip and bash her forehead in on the rocks. This actually can turn someone into a irresponsible, antisocial thrill seeker - look up Phineas Gage sometime.
Shatteredtower 04-05-07, 12:35 PM	Life becomes more interesting if you channel a bit of Mal Reynolds. You could always buy a boat and name is Serenity. It might also help to acquire a boat crew containing a mentally disturbed Telepath, a Barbarian, a pretty, cheerful Artificer :inlove:, a stoic Fighter, a divine class of some kind with a mysterious background and a slightly odd helmsman (an Expert?) Of course, if you aren't playing Captain Mal, you may want to go in a different direction. ;)Wait, wait... the solution to having a Joss Whedon DM is to play a Joss Whedon character? :confused:
stackmachine 04-05-07, 01:06 PM	Let's see: - Character is CN/LE *check* - Character has seen suffering beyond reason *check* - Character has little to no chance to succeed *check* - Character's actions will work adverse to her, her friends and the world *check* ... But especially remember: It's a game. Do not allow this game to take any higher toll than a ruined evening :P black kitten summed it up just fine. kudos there. i see two solutions, depending on your real-world state of mind towards that pc and campaign: 1. if you are tired of this no-win-situation, fall on your sword. roleplay it to a classic "good-bye, cruel world" and make a nice, fresh and motivated character to beat the crap of that villain; or not, depending on your personal plans. 2. talk to your dm about the obvious continuous railroading and your frustrations with it. if he intended that villain to be a constant and unavoidable pain in the a**, he must realise that it seized to be fun, at least for you as a central figure in the plot. after all, HAVING A GREAT TIME WITH FRIENDS is what this is all about, isn't it?! all the best!
stackmachine 04-05-07, 01:10 PM	...but imagine what happens if you embrace the fact your SD's kid and if she has that kinda power it should be in you as well oh, i see a glorious "Luke, i am your father" -"NOOOO!!!!"-moment coming :). have fun!
Man in the Funny Hat 04-05-07, 05:24 PM	The one and only question that matters here is this - have you TOLD your DM how dissatisfied you are? You must have because the DM is the one person who can actually change things here, right? If you haven't then by your silence you have tacitly accepted that NOTHING IS WRONG, and the DM has no reason to suspect otherwise. Tell you what, talk to the DM and explain that you're no longer enjoying playing your doormat character, that you don't want endless sunshine, happiness, flowers, and pennies from heaven but you want to start seeing some by-god positive things start happening or there WILL be consequences. If the DM refuses or fails to accomodate you your solution is exceptionally simple. Say, "This is so UNENJOYABLE I want to vomit. My character retires to a monastery. If she can't find one she'll start one, or live in a cave. Whatever. It doesn't matter anyway. You do what you like with it because I no longer care. I WOULD have suicided the character and at least gone out in a blaze of glory but you'd have just had SD resurrect her and turn even that last-ditch, pathetic attempt at release from endless degradation and struggle into yet more degradation and struggle. "You WIN. I SURRENDER my character to you. You CANNOT make me play that character any more, and nothing you do now could make me WANT to. I am now going to roll up a NEW character who has no CONCEIVABLE ties to anything in the campaign up to this point. You WILL NOT even try to draw this character down to those same depths of despair. This character will draw the other characters with her into a completely new life that will never again be tainted by the sewage they were dragged out of. This game changes AS OF NOW. And if you start to do the same thing to this one as you did to the last one, I will walk away from your game and never come back." It's a nice speech. You'll enjoy reciting it. But don't even think of going there until your DM has been WELL informed of your intent to read him this particular Riot Act, and why.
Solik 04-05-07, 05:59 PM	I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet. Sure, the DM dressed it pretty in elaborate tragedy and tons of backstory delving, but this problem is one of the most basic problems with bad DMs: Railroading. Your DM has determined the hell he's going to put your characters through (I'm guessing he's a bit emo, or he can sometimes be a jerk?), and he's powertripping through a very standard method of play. He's making sure that, no matter what, things will go as he plans, and he has gone so far as to grant your characters hive minds and multiple personalities to give him direct control of your PCs. Perhaps he's of the mind that it will make the ultimate victory sweeter. Maybe he's just enjoying the power play. Either way, you do not have to stand for it. Explain precisely what he is doing. Explain to him that this is not fun. It's not fun being railroaded to tragedy, nor would it be any more fun if he railroaded you to happiness and butterflies. Stop the rails. Don't control player characters. Don't make your villains invincible. Don't obliterate player backstories without their consent. And for the love of all that is holy, don't make player actions futile -- make them paramount, the center of attention of the story.
DracoPhoenix 04-05-07, 06:21 PM	The interesting thing would to be to play on the DMs interest in the saga - if he's near railroading plot lines, chances are you are also near unkillable yourself. As the child of SD, your death one way or another will most likely either curtail the campaign, or be impossible to achieve. If it's the latter, simply go into hiding, and the next time SD sends something after you (to provoke a reaction) make it initially look like your going to fight tooth & nail, but at the last minute, drop your defenses, willingly fail any appropriate saves that could result in your deaths etc. Then when the party re-roll comes up, ask to change campaign setting (not the world, but just removing the whole SD plot line). If that doesn't work, or you get a "DS" plot line instead, ask to change DM.
mato_hibiki 04-06-07, 04:57 AM	Wait, wait... the solution to having a Joss Whedon DM is to play a Joss Whedon character? :confused: EXACTLY! Haven't you ever seen the show? The key to great adventures is to play the right role. A little Mal is what's needed right here, as it turns a tragedy into more of an adventure, and less of a farce. And it opens the doors for such great lines as 'Huh?' <Neigh insurmountable chasm, with all important goal on the other side.> "Hard to get to? Ain't that a fact." The key in this horrible farce of a game, as in life, is to avoid typecasting. If all the players are in on this, all of a sudden, this horrible life becomes a hilarious adventure. This is good advice, think about trying it. Otherwise, when you run into trouble next time, will you actually be able to say 'Chin wa sau du lin ma! Shiney.' hmm?
Voran 04-06-07, 06:23 AM	Sounds like the GM has played one too many Squaresoft games. And he's following the Main Chars = Screwed Up Histories, equation.
stackmachine 04-06-07, 01:40 PM	I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet. Railroading. i did, read my post above, point two. should have wrote in bold letters... :).
Ikyotojin 04-06-07, 02:59 PM	I'm a DM and have given the current party a history - the main fighter is the grandson of a paladin who was murdered in his sleep. The city he protected fell into the hands the hands of a group of wealthy evil folk... and he has a CHOICE! He can choose to try to avenge the wrongs OR go elsewhere and follow his own life's path. One of the other characters is related (distantly) to a family of elves who is close to the elven throne. She has the CHOICE to find her long lost aunt and bring the family back to prominence. But it is a CHOICE. I don't screw with the minds of characters... That is ego tripping on your DM's part. He has given your party no CHOICES. I suspect it is because he can't handle things he doesn't plan out, or because he wants to make things suffer - he's either a control freak or a closet sadist. Bail. Learn to DM or help someone else learn. I'd have my character jump into a magma flow rather than give him the satisfaction of picking me apart like that. And if the villain resurrects you, hand him the sheet and say "enjoy tormenting your new NPC. I'm making a character that I run."
Sybill 04-06-07, 03:34 PM	I'd have my character jump into a magma flow rather than give him the satisfaction of picking me apart like that. No, I already missed the boat on that one, should have thought of it when we were actually near a magma flow. :uh-huh: But seriously, when I told the DM that I was planning on possibly committing suicide he didn't even seem to care. I plan on sitting down with him and telling him a lot of what's been mentioned here, and that I don't really want to kill off my character, but that if all she has to look forward to is more epic failure, I'd rather she die now than, well, fail. And if he says she'll continue to fail, I'll roll up a druid/stormlord follower of the aforementioned dust philosophy who refuses to feel anything but happy and proceeds to own everything.
Maekrix_Waere 04-06-07, 05:09 PM	(Because I wanted to be the first one to say it.) The DMG has pointy edges for a reason.
YamiSouru 04-06-07, 05:26 PM	you know two prestige classes come to mind when i was reading this. The Ghostwalker and the Corrupt Avenger. SO my advice is don't ditch the charactor instead fight back like a wild animal and become the spirit of Vengeance. If SD doesn't know your name (doubt it but it's worth mentioning) the Ghostwalker will be a excellent prestige class for you to pick up with the hivemind as both your greatest power/ weakness. how? well by this point in time it's safe to assume that SD or his minions via the hive mind has reduced you past 1/2 hit points by now so you'r bonuses from the prestige class should all kick in, and you can reason that any one part of the hive mind bears with them a small part of SD because of how a hivemind is really kind of one big brain. So if you can get that to work with your DM at that point deface yourself so no one can recognize you, buy rings of mind shielding, to get rid of that pesky hivemind SD trying to find out your name with, and buy other items to help you and your party resist divination spells. Now all of a sudden SD is faceing a very angry nameless enemy who rips through it's forces like a hot knife through butter. Now if SD knows your name like im pretty sure it does, go the corrupt Avenger route, take sworn enemy with the hive mind as your chosen foe. and go to work at completely destroying all traces of the hive mind. heh you might even be able to try to use the hive mind to help find your target if your dm is going to try to force you to do things. "We'll if they can use the hive mind to find me why can't i use it to find them.". Also if the DM tries to pull the "i don't use taint so you can't use the class" politely point out that he has specifically tailored your charactor into the prestige class and it wouldnt be hard at all to change a few of the taint mechinics in it to say instead of smite taint to smite sworn foe. now then it's doesnt matter which path you take to get to your goal of Vengeance incarnate, but before you kill him the first time (your Dm strikes me as the kind of guy who won't let this jerk just die) you absolutely MUST give this short speech. "You may have givin me this curse but i will own it and use it against you. And whenever innocent blood is spilt it will be my family's blood and i will be there, a spirit of vengeance!" Or you could kill off the charactor..up to you really but i think the revenge route would most likely end up alot more enjoyable because not only have you survived this despair but you overcame, confronted, and annihilated it.
kelvinaw273 04-06-07, 07:35 PM	Ok, short version first, then full details for those with the time. Basically, our DM has been hurting the party from the very beginning. His game is still fun to play, but it has also become emotionally exhausting to play as a character who just cannot succeed. The second adventure we ever played, my character came home to find her village burned, her mother and sister abducted, and her brother tortured and slaughtered in a sacrificial manner by a person known as SD... and it just got worse from there. Worse? you say... She ends up finding a magic sword that is so powerful it takes over her mind. She finally gets rid of the sword and develops severe multiple personality disorder (to the point where I was actually playing two characters, one the original TN rogue, the other a LE cleric). Her alternate personality sacrifices the party paladin, who happened to be in love with her. She finds out that SD, the one who killed her brother and stole her sister and mother, is actually her true mother, the other being a surrogate. Her love interest is killed by SD. SD is almost god-like in power, so she can't do anything about what she's done. The sword comes back and takes over her mind again. Then, she loses the sword, and was basically treated as having a horrible addiction and played with severe penalties for the next few battles. Herself and three of her party members, the only ones that survived since the beginning are now tainted with this disease-like condition that makes you part of "the collective", a hive-mind sort of horrible collection of creatures, of which SD is a member. One of them is so far gone that there is no coming back. Upon talking to her mother, SD, she's found out that the party has been playing into her plans all along, without knowing it. Instead of hurting her, we've been helping her, and we don't know how or why. Her best friend was just turned to stone, presumably forever, since there is really no one who can cast the stone to flesh or miracle or wish or whatever to turn him back. Now, I don't know whether I should just scrap the character, or if there's a way to come back from all this. No matter how much you differentiate between game and reality, there is still some connection with the characters, and playing a character like this, who basically gets dumped on over and over and over again is, like I said, emotionally exhausting. Should I just make a new character? Or is there a viable way for this character to be redeemed? At this point, she's almost suicidal anyway. Any advice appreciated. Edit: I forgot the part where we went to Celestia for help with our "disease" and got turned away, to the point of Hound archons actually attacking two CG characters and my one TN because we weren't welcome there. I have played in campaigns like this, and after a while they just stop being fun because you never get any victories. Tell your DM to give the PCs a break, or you'll all just lose interest. You need to win one now and again to get anywhere, otherwise it's just a beatfest on your characters. Knew a DM who ran every campaign like this and he was a great DM, but his campaigns always ended with us just drifting away because we just could not hack another round of losing, discovering how bad we had messed up and seeing the bad guys getting away, AGAIN. It wasn't just that we didn't win, there was often no way we could win.
Darth Sephiroth 04-07-07, 04:17 AM	While suicide is one way out, another is to spread the misery around and begin to enjoy making everything else in the campaign world suffer your pain. In other words play as if you were Xellos...bring misfortune and anger upon everyone you meet and enjoy it.