Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CalibanZaxx 04-07-07, 01:29 AM	When it comes to gaming styles our DM is the polar opposite of the rest of the group. She's new and has (like the rest pf us) made every possible mistake a DM could. From taking 45 minutes to roleplay out how the blacksmith's wife cooked dinner to telling the players how their characters react to a situation. But the biggest problem is found that she prefers the roleplaying aspect of D&D, eager to pretend she's every NPC in town while the rest of the group prefers the "kick in the door" style and giggle with glee when the miniatures finally hit the table and we're able to make more than just 'spot' and 'listen' checks and groan with boredom every time we're told we enter a town... ( We've gotten to the point of randomly attacking villagers to make it interesting.. She says "Ok, that didn't happen." ) It's gotten to the point that players are leaving the group. So my question is how do we convince our DM that we just want a classic dungeon crawl while avoiding any hurt feelings and how do we teach her that her DMing methods are killing the game for the rest of the group but still allow her to include what she finds fun about the game?
darkneolink 04-07-07, 01:35 AM	Short answer: TALK TO HER! Long answer: ask her for a coffee with the group (hot chocolate works better... mmmmmm chocolatey) and explain her the points of view of the party, OK she prefers the RP side of the game, you guys prefer the kick and loot part both sides are valid, so ask her to give you guys at least 10 minutes of kill and loot for every 5 minutes of RP you could also get her a copy of the DM guide so she could take the propposals in there... invite her to the forums and let the flamers do their work... I mean the friendly forum goons do their work good luck with that this is a comentary worth 2 cents you can take it as that
KillerGM 04-07-07, 01:47 AM	Short answer: TALK TO HER! Long answer: ask her for a coffee with the group (hot chocolate works better... mmmmmm chocolatey) and explain her the points of view of the party, OK she prefers the RP side of the game, you guys prefer the kick and loot part both sides are valid, so ask her to give you guys at least 10 minutes of kill and loot for every 5 minutes of RP you could also get her a copy of the DM guide so she could take the propposals in there... invite her to the forums and let the flamers do their work... I mean the friendly forum goons do their work good luck with that this is a comentary worth 2 cents you can take it as that I agree. The #1 solution to any playstyle problem is to talk and communicate what you want out of the game. The key is to find a common ground, where the DM's happy running and the players are happy playing. So, talk to your DM. Not in the middle of the game, not in a whiney way, and DO NOT disrupt the game on purpose (like attacking villagers because you're bored). Act like adults and say "This is how we like to play. We'd prefer it if you included more of this style." Hope it helps! :D
CalibanZaxx 04-07-07, 09:06 AM	Great suggestions. I brought up the subjest to her and she was left feeling very depressed. She thought she was doing a fine job and really doesn't like the idea of running a hack 'n slash game. I had offered to help give her a few pointers and loan her my copy of the DM's guide, both of which was turned down and she's now reluctant to start another game. So I have no idea what to do at this point. Any new ideas out there?
Cartigan 04-07-07, 09:41 AM	Explain to her D&D isn't a short story contest. EDIT: If you are with a M that is more interested in playing chat RP, you might want to consider going your separate ways.
Coven 04-07-07, 12:46 PM	Just sounds like the DM and players prefer different play styles and it might not be a good idea to force the DM into a play style doesn't like or forcing the players to a different one they don't enjoy. Maybe the players should just get a new DM who likes or doesn't mind doing their play style or one of them take up DMing. It sounds like she would enjoy some of the more roleplaying based games more.
Isadore 04-07-07, 01:38 PM	It's a pity that your DM seems to have taken your suggestions personally, CalibanZaxx. I've noticed that there's a lot of DM's out there who take criticism quite personally - I think because they all put so much work into what they're doing regardless of whether it goes down well. However, she might feel better if you share the following with her: There actually tends to be a big difference in preferences between male and female DM's and players. I DM'd an all-female gaming group once, and it was an almost completely plot-driven campaign. The fighting generally took a backseat to the rest of the game, with maybe one encounter per session. The girls were far more interested in shopping, talking to NPC's, developing relationships, planning excursions/tactics, finding clever uses for their skills, and puzzling out solutions to problems. I once roleplayed a 20 minute conversation as an NPC dressmaker.....and they loved it! Had your DM been running a game for this group, she would have done just fine. However, if one of the guys from my regular groups had been there, he would have been falling asleep - and possibly stabbing himself in the eye during the "dressmaker" encounter. And in contrast, I often get bored or distracted during combat - much to the chagrin of my DM - because I just don't care about fighting. I'd much rather puzzle my way through a good story arc. So - she might be making some mistakes because she's new, but the real issue is probably gender driven. She shouldn't give up on DM'ing, she just needs to know that men sometimes need more battles thrown in to make the plot more relevant. As girls, we seem to need the plot to make the FIGHTING relevant. Neither style is wrong - and you can even balance the two elements so everyone wins. **No sexism intended here, of course, every player as an individual is different - these are all just group averages based on my experience.
Cartigan 04-07-07, 01:58 PM	I can put up with puzzles and plot-driven campaigns where you have to talk to a few crucial NPCs, but holy crap shopping excursions? Did Barbie make a D&D game? Barbie's D&D adventure: The Mall expansion.
Manic Man 04-07-07, 01:58 PM	CalibanZaxx: Are you capable of DMing? I would suggest you take over as DM for a while and cater to both groups. With time (and some work on your side), the hack and slashers may see some fun in RP while the current DM may (or may not) see that the DM needs to cater to everyone
Isadore 04-07-07, 02:09 PM	I can put up with puzzles and plot-driven campaigns where you have to talk to a few crucial NPCs, but holy crap shopping excursions? Did Barbie make a D&D game? Barbie's D&D adventure: The Mall expansion. - Hey - MOST of the shopping was for weapons, armor, and supplies....only some of it involved custom-tailored clothing and sundries (and that was because they needed to infiltrate wealthy circles). Though Barbie WOULD look hot in chain-mail.....;)
Sleepwalker13666 04-07-07, 02:12 PM	I would talk with her again, she may not be ready to do a steady dungeon crawl style of game, but let her know that the game needs to at least be more balanced between the two, since she seems to prefers running in cities one thing she can do is have you all track down a member of the assassins guild, ultimently it will require a bit of roleplaying to find them, but eventually you kick down the door do battle with rogues, assassins and their barbarian bodyguards. Also she can try to give the villians personalities or backstories that create enough intrigue for the players to look into it, (I have a post on the mature boards called A Question of Alignment regarding an issue like that) And then talk to your group as well, you may prefer to kick down the door, but if you got more combat that was just plot thick they could still have more fun right? If she post on this board you can have her e-mail me if you think I might be able to give her suggesstions. I hope this works out for you.
KillerGM 04-07-07, 02:17 PM	CalibanZaxx: Are you capable of DMing? I would suggest you take over as DM for a while and cater to both groups. With time (and some work on your side), the hack and slashers may see some fun in RP while the current DM may (or may not) see that the DM needs to cater to everyone Agreed. As I said before, it doesn't have to be all hack-and-slash or all improv-theatre. Not everyone, especially when they have such different view of what makes a good game, is going to get 100% of what they want. It's a compromise - and there is much more fun to be had when both sides get some of what they want than when one side gets all and the other side gets none. :D (BTW, I don't share the same experience with male/female gamers as Isadore. All of my female players have been very much kick in the door, and I've had some very heavy RP guy players. As a DM, I tend to blend both... and I'm a girl...just had to throw that out there. ;) )
Aeromus 04-07-07, 02:25 PM	I have a female player in my group. And, she's kinda "clueless" in combat. But, she has fun, because my game is mostly roleplay, and story driven. Due to it's size. Running battles with 9 players, and 3-20 npc/monsters is not fun. Now with that said, my 5 man games, for my tried and true group. Is very very combat heavy. It's tactical, brutal, and unforgiving. NPC's have agendas, backstab one another, use the party for thier own ends, have relationships. Bust relationship ever, was between, a male paladin player, and his female cohort paladin, whom later died. Both whorshipped Wee-Jas. A LE cleric of Wee-Jas ressurected her, and she went Blackguard. During a fight, she actually killed the party rogue backtalking the Paladin Player, and they had a conversation about the next Wee-Jas Holiday, whilest fighting. Both had the same goal, just a different idea of how to attain it. Was a great combat+roleplay moment. Anyway, play her way. Develope relationships, and let her act them out. You never know you may get lucky.
kelvinaw273 04-07-07, 05:35 PM	This has nothing to do with male and female ... your DM is from the "Role Play" school of play, that's all. I'd love a DM like that, frankly. Now, the thing to suggest to her is this: "I know you want to role-play, and so do we all. But we like a game with a bit more danger and excitement in it. If you open with a bang, set an exciting pace and giove us a specific task to do, we'll happily role-play our way through completing it. If you like I can help you set up combat encounters, while you concentrate on the aver-arching plot and the NPCs we'll need to talk to to find out where to go next." Then you will achieve what you want - you get an esciting game, she gets to tell a great story. You may even find that you start enjoying the RP side of it more, and she may find she appreciates the combat side of the game more.
Zorminster 04-07-07, 06:41 PM	tell her that you realize she enjoys the roleplaying of DnD. Ask her if she couldn't roleplay the combats instead of the inconsequential crap that happens in town. You guys will still be getting your combat, and she will be roleplaying- as an added bonus, the time she wastes by over-roleplaying the combat is a tactical advantage to the group if used to better strategize and fully consider the decisions your making.
Isadore 04-08-07, 06:45 PM	(BTW, I don't share the same experience with male/female gamers as Isadore. All of my female players have been very much kick in the door, and I've had some very heavy RP guy players. As a DM, I tend to blend both... and I'm a girl...just had to throw that out there. ;) ) Lol - I know one person isn't enough to develop a reliable sampling base for gender differences in D&D playing....I've seen a couple male players who like the RP end of things too, and I'm sure one day I'll meet a female hack-and-slasher or two... I only made the gender-split suggestion because it seems evident that CalibanZaxx's DM is taking "criticism" a bit personally; it's a bit less harsh to hear "Well, sometimes guys tend to like the combat more" than "we don't like your (arduously prepared and lovingly crafted) game-running style very much." The first option allows her to attribute the problem to an external source; the latter makes her feel like it's HER fault and will just make her defensive.
KillerGM 04-08-07, 06:52 PM	I only made the gender-split suggestion because it seems evident that CalibanZaxx's DM is taking "criticism" a bit personally; it's a bit less harsh to hear "Well, sometimes guys tend to like the combat more" than "we don't like your (arduously prepared and lovingly crafted) game-running style very much." The first option allows her to attribute the problem to an external source; the latter makes her feel like it's HER fault and will just make her defensive. And will only reinforce outdated and unnesessary gender bias. "Boys like this, girls like that" is a terrible argument to use, regardless of the topic being discussed. There are plenty of ways to discuss a difference in playstyle preference without getting personally offensive. And if she did take it personally, then that's on her. Because part of it *is* her fault. She needs to change her style to fit more in line with her players (and vice-versa, as I've said before). I would be more offended if someone told me to run my games more like a man, rather than saying they prefer a different style of play. [EDIT:] Ok, ok, I'm getting off the soapbox now. The last thing we need is *another* thread dedicated to the differences in play between the sexes.
Isadore 04-08-07, 07:13 PM	Sorry - didn't realize this was a problem. I'll keep my advice to myself, I guess.
Karish 04-08-07, 07:19 PM	Meh; I have noticed for a lot of girls I know they perfer RP and story stuff over fighting, but I'm sort of like that too. Whatever. She's just a RPer. Get over it or try to come to a compromise by just explaining you have different styles.
LeuktheSavior 04-08-07, 07:32 PM	the answer is simple. play evil characters. Evil characters come in, pillage the town, and leave. it doesnt give an option for heavy roleplaying of the boring nuances of town life. go get drunk in the tavern and pick a fight, burning down the entire building.
DrMorganes 04-08-07, 07:47 PM	Though Barbie WOULD look hot in chain-mail.....;) **stabs himself in the eyes** More on-topic: Isadore is actually right on the money. Research has shown time and again that women are - as a gender - far better and more interested in developing relationships, exploring options, etc, etc, while men are - as a gender - possessed of a "Git 'r done!" sort of attitude. Give us something to DO whilst the womenfolk are chatting it up, and we're happy. This is spilling over into your gaming experience. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me at all that your DM thought she was doing a bang-up job. She was - from her perspective. The problem, of course, is the disconnect between what she thought would be an interesting and engaging game and what her players would prefer. Pay attention and you'll see similar issues popping up in relationships all over the place! So what to do? First off, how old is everyone? Age and maturity play a large part in being able to give and receive constructive criticism. Next, point her here and reinforce that she's not doing ANYTHING wrong as a DM. There is nothing wrong with her style of playing. It's simply different and not at all what the rest of your troupe typically enjoys.