I need help making this character work mechanically! [Archive] - Wizards Community

I need help making this character work mechanically! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 12:07 AM http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/pirates/people/kalaban.jpg to
http://www.johns.iway.na/images/paladin.gif

This rogue, we'll call him Khalzar, is sneaking about a monastery/holy building of sorts. He's on the roof, and while making his way on top, he crashes and falls through, perhaps a skylight. So he gets to his feat, a bit confused and comes face to face with a cleric/paladin. Screaming, the holy man is about to run, when the rogue, thinking fast, punches him in the face, knocking him out.

(Khalzar, while always seen as a charmer and deceiver, was always a step behind his fellows in the town he was raised, and he was non-too quiet :uh-huh: )

(bear with me) and dons the garb of the cleric or paladin and books it out of there. He encounters the party sometime later, asking to join, for a "noble cause", when in reality he's seeking sanctuary. If any doubts arose, he'd have the excuse "I am a paladin, my word is true" or such. And I wanted to see where it went from there.

Down the road, i was thinking either let the guise slowly shift him into becoming a true paladin in living up to ideals, or have him slowly drift to his theivish nature and explain his duplicity to the party.

But how would I make him work at level 1, mechanics-wise? :confused:

Human, Age 22, Medium length dark brown hair, hazel eyes, a little over six foot, alignment, i was shooting for Neutral or Neutral Good. What originally started as sort of an initiation into a thieves guild to steal this church/monastery's artifact on their altar. Things get botched, and from there he's on the run from the local area's religous authority.
Sourcemaster2
05-29-05, 12:11 AM What mechanics are you looking for? Which aspect of the scenario needs mechanical support?
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 12:16 AM How would he emulate certain Paladin abilities? I know Su, Sp or Ex are out, but what would make him blend in, in his faux role?
Draco Strang
05-29-05, 12:19 AM How would he emulate certain Paladin abilities? I know Su, Sp or Ex are out, but what would make him blend in, in his faux role?
Max ranks in Disguise, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate.

Seriously, there's not much about a paladin that a rogue can emulate at 1st level through any way but good skill use and RP.
The Man from Uncle
05-29-05, 01:39 AM Well you can at least hold the right type of weapon, if not the armor (chain shirt will have to do if you can afford it). Wearing a metal helm you could get away with. Procuring a white steed might help.

Apart from that....having a few holy symbols and religious texts around your person might divert suspicion.
allenchan
05-29-05, 02:10 AM what level? I'd highly recommend the Chameleon PrC from Races of Destiny, it would fit this quite well.
Arrowhen
05-29-05, 04:17 AM Tell them you lost your powers for violating your code of conduct and that you wish to join their "noble cause" as a way of atoning.
Draco Strang
05-29-05, 04:44 AM Tell them you lost your powers for violating your code of conduct and that you wish to join their "noble cause" as a way of atoning.
And if you maxx out your ranks in Bluff, this sort of BS will work like a charm.
VerinBlod
05-29-05, 05:42 AM Yeah go with the atoning paladin idea and max out bluff and knowledge religion. Maybe latter on try to get into the chameleon PrC like someone mentioned. With this PrC you can keep up the paladin charade forever. Looks like a fun character btw.
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 05:56 AM Hey, thanks. So far my story is that my divine powers were rescinded due to a lack of faith, and i'm on a journey to learn more of the world and get back in touch with my god.

In this campaign, everyone is starting at level 1, for those who asked.
Draco Strang
05-29-05, 06:03 AM Hey, thanks. So far my story is that my divine powers were rescinded due to a lack of faith, and i'm on a journey to learn more of the world and get back in touch with my god.
Well, the real question is how long you think your character can keep up the charade. I mean, with bluff ranks and good charisma, I suppose he could say "Yea...I have a lot of atoning to do." However, if he doesn't start slinging a few Lay on Hands around or goes a few levels without smiting an evil guy, they'll probably start to wonder what's up.

Remember: You can fool some of the people all the time, or all of the people some of the time. It's your choice.
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 06:27 AM Yea, of course the masquerade is only going to last until level 2 to 4, when i decide where I want him to go, the path of the holy warrior, or the path of the deceiver. Since Paladins aren't the best at frontline fighting, generally, I suppose this works in my beneift as an excuse to be a sideline supporter, rather than up in their face.
J Milburn
05-29-05, 06:34 AM Why not carry some scrolls tro emulate lay on hands and smite?
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 06:37 AM I've never heard of such things, do they exist? If so, where may I find them?
Arkonth
05-29-05, 11:08 AM I'm not sure about smite, but maybe you coulduse sneak attack to fill that hole. As for lay on hands, a cure light wounds scroll should do the trick.
Draco Strang
05-29-05, 12:04 PM I'm not sure about smite, but maybe you coulduse sneak attack to fill that hole. As for lay on hands, a cure light wounds scroll should do the trick.
Actually, I hadn't thought about this. A few ranks in UMD and a scroll of CLOW will work if you can bluff them into thinking you're a fallen paladin. The sneak attack could represent a smite, if they don't know how one works.
VerinBlod
05-29-05, 12:32 PM Yup go and get your initiative mod as high as can be and charge the enemy whilst screaming how you are going to make them pay for their evil deeds and how you're going to smite them. :D Lots of bluff and making sure the enemy is flatfooted... could certainly do the trick
Encard
05-29-05, 12:40 PM The Shadowbane Inquisitor PrC (from Complete Adventurer) may be good if you want to keep some of your rogue abilities progressing as well as your paladin stuff. The Devoted Inquisitor feat from that book might also be nice if you wanted to go that way. Hmm... Thief Acrobat might work for someone who climbs around on roofs a lot, although if you're starting with that backstory at level 1, it'd probably come a bit too late.
Anthus_Longblade
05-29-05, 06:22 PM Since Paladins aren't the best at frontline fighting,

What are you talking about? They have full BAB, Proficiency with all armor and martial weapons, a d10 hit die, and smite attacks. Advanced paladins can even heal themselves, become immune to fear effects, turn undead, and bring in a magical super-warhorse. Paladins are great front-line fighters.
PrinceAzar
05-29-05, 06:27 PM I was just comparing them to fighters, that's all. In a party where I was a Fighter, and my friend, a Paladin, I contribued more to battles themselves, though he was far better at diplomatic situations, by far.

Oh, and thanks for helping me with my character :rolleyes:
Dragon4217
05-29-05, 10:56 PM Oh, yeah, and "detect evil" every once in a while. Paladins always are detecting evil. Just use a sense motive check, guess, then use a bluff check.

In fact, you could say "I detect evil....yep, he's evil" and get an innocent guy off your back every once in a while.

Also, the whole sneak/smite thing would probably work....make sure to set yourself up for flanks a lot when you do it.

I don't know how much the players know that you're not a paladin, or if they know and they just don't metagame. Either way, saying "I smite him" while you're flanking can be really effective....of course, the charging while their flat-footed thing works too.

I love the character concept. It's great.

as was stated before, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, and Use Magic Device are great skills for this.

I would think that maybe instead of going the paladin route, start taking a level of cleric every once in a while.... use it as your "lay on hands" also, you can get destruction and trickery to maintain the disguise. Make up a god with those domains if there isn't one in your pantheon.

That way you can say you're getting some powers back, but you don't have to be a complete paladin. (CLW = lay on hands), etc.

You'll be one of the most powerful paladins ever! Or at least they will say.
The_Spleen-Splitter
05-30-05, 12:25 AM Dude, will you please not sue me if I steal your character? This guy sounds cool-er than my character. Also, if your character goes good, he could take the Slayer of Domeil PrC from Exalted Deeds. It's like assassin, only exalted. :angel:
PrinceAzar
05-30-05, 01:09 AM No problem Spleen Splitter, i'm prepping this guy rule wise, because i'll be applying him in a little over a week, when my DM finally gets a break from work. :cool:

Yea, the Slayer of Domiel is basically an assassin who applies his skills for the light, though either this guy will progress more as a plain rogue, or be influenced by his mockery of chivalry and kindess and eventually turn into a true paladin.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 12:07 AM	http://www.deathstar.org/~krlipka/pirates/people/kalaban.jpg to http://www.johns.iway.na/images/paladin.gif This rogue, we'll call him Khalzar, is sneaking about a monastery/holy building of sorts. He's on the roof, and while making his way on top, he crashes and falls through, perhaps a skylight. So he gets to his feat, a bit confused and comes face to face with a cleric/paladin. Screaming, the holy man is about to run, when the rogue, thinking fast, punches him in the face, knocking him out. (Khalzar, while always seen as a charmer and deceiver, was always a step behind his fellows in the town he was raised, and he was non-too quiet :uh-huh: ) (bear with me) and dons the garb of the cleric or paladin and books it out of there. He encounters the party sometime later, asking to join, for a "noble cause", when in reality he's seeking sanctuary. If any doubts arose, he'd have the excuse "I am a paladin, my word is true" or such. And I wanted to see where it went from there. Down the road, i was thinking either let the guise slowly shift him into becoming a true paladin in living up to ideals, or have him slowly drift to his theivish nature and explain his duplicity to the party. But how would I make him work at level 1, mechanics-wise? :confused: Human, Age 22, Medium length dark brown hair, hazel eyes, a little over six foot, alignment, i was shooting for Neutral or Neutral Good. What originally started as sort of an initiation into a thieves guild to steal this church/monastery's artifact on their altar. Things get botched, and from there he's on the run from the local area's religous authority.
Sourcemaster2 05-29-05, 12:11 AM	What mechanics are you looking for? Which aspect of the scenario needs mechanical support?
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 12:16 AM	How would he emulate certain Paladin abilities? I know Su, Sp or Ex are out, but what would make him blend in, in his faux role?
Draco Strang 05-29-05, 12:19 AM	How would he emulate certain Paladin abilities? I know Su, Sp or Ex are out, but what would make him blend in, in his faux role? Max ranks in Disguise, Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. Seriously, there's not much about a paladin that a rogue can emulate at 1st level through any way but good skill use and RP.
The Man from Uncle 05-29-05, 01:39 AM	Well you can at least hold the right type of weapon, if not the armor (chain shirt will have to do if you can afford it). Wearing a metal helm you could get away with. Procuring a white steed might help. Apart from that....having a few holy symbols and religious texts around your person might divert suspicion.
allenchan 05-29-05, 02:10 AM	what level? I'd highly recommend the Chameleon PrC from Races of Destiny, it would fit this quite well.
Arrowhen 05-29-05, 04:17 AM	Tell them you lost your powers for violating your code of conduct and that you wish to join their "noble cause" as a way of atoning.
Draco Strang 05-29-05, 04:44 AM	Tell them you lost your powers for violating your code of conduct and that you wish to join their "noble cause" as a way of atoning. And if you maxx out your ranks in Bluff, this sort of BS will work like a charm.
VerinBlod 05-29-05, 05:42 AM	Yeah go with the atoning paladin idea and max out bluff and knowledge religion. Maybe latter on try to get into the chameleon PrC like someone mentioned. With this PrC you can keep up the paladin charade forever. Looks like a fun character btw.
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 05:56 AM	Hey, thanks. So far my story is that my divine powers were rescinded due to a lack of faith, and i'm on a journey to learn more of the world and get back in touch with my god. In this campaign, everyone is starting at level 1, for those who asked.
Draco Strang 05-29-05, 06:03 AM	Hey, thanks. So far my story is that my divine powers were rescinded due to a lack of faith, and i'm on a journey to learn more of the world and get back in touch with my god. Well, the real question is how long you think your character can keep up the charade. I mean, with bluff ranks and good charisma, I suppose he could say "Yea...I have a lot of atoning to do." However, if he doesn't start slinging a few Lay on Hands around or goes a few levels without smiting an evil guy, they'll probably start to wonder what's up. Remember: You can fool some of the people all the time, or all of the people some of the time. It's your choice.
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 06:27 AM	Yea, of course the masquerade is only going to last until level 2 to 4, when i decide where I want him to go, the path of the holy warrior, or the path of the deceiver. Since Paladins aren't the best at frontline fighting, generally, I suppose this works in my beneift as an excuse to be a sideline supporter, rather than up in their face.
J Milburn 05-29-05, 06:34 AM	Why not carry some scrolls tro emulate lay on hands and smite?
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 06:37 AM	I've never heard of such things, do they exist? If so, where may I find them?
Arkonth 05-29-05, 11:08 AM	I'm not sure about smite, but maybe you coulduse sneak attack to fill that hole. As for lay on hands, a cure light wounds scroll should do the trick.
Draco Strang 05-29-05, 12:04 PM	I'm not sure about smite, but maybe you coulduse sneak attack to fill that hole. As for lay on hands, a cure light wounds scroll should do the trick. Actually, I hadn't thought about this. A few ranks in UMD and a scroll of CLOW will work if you can bluff them into thinking you're a fallen paladin. The sneak attack could represent a smite, if they don't know how one works.
VerinBlod 05-29-05, 12:32 PM	Yup go and get your initiative mod as high as can be and charge the enemy whilst screaming how you are going to make them pay for their evil deeds and how you're going to smite them. :D Lots of bluff and making sure the enemy is flatfooted... could certainly do the trick
Encard 05-29-05, 12:40 PM	The Shadowbane Inquisitor PrC (from Complete Adventurer) may be good if you want to keep some of your rogue abilities progressing as well as your paladin stuff. The Devoted Inquisitor feat from that book might also be nice if you wanted to go that way. Hmm... Thief Acrobat might work for someone who climbs around on roofs a lot, although if you're starting with that backstory at level 1, it'd probably come a bit too late.
Anthus_Longblade 05-29-05, 06:22 PM	Since Paladins aren't the best at frontline fighting, What are you talking about? They have full BAB, Proficiency with all armor and martial weapons, a d10 hit die, and smite attacks. Advanced paladins can even heal themselves, become immune to fear effects, turn undead, and bring in a magical super-warhorse. Paladins are great front-line fighters.
PrinceAzar 05-29-05, 06:27 PM	I was just comparing them to fighters, that's all. In a party where I was a Fighter, and my friend, a Paladin, I contribued more to battles themselves, though he was far better at diplomatic situations, by far. Oh, and thanks for helping me with my character :rolleyes:
Dragon4217 05-29-05, 10:56 PM	Oh, yeah, and "detect evil" every once in a while. Paladins always are detecting evil. Just use a sense motive check, guess, then use a bluff check. In fact, you could say "I detect evil....yep, he's evil" and get an innocent guy off your back every once in a while. Also, the whole sneak/smite thing would probably work....make sure to set yourself up for flanks a lot when you do it. I don't know how much the players know that you're not a paladin, or if they know and they just don't metagame. Either way, saying "I smite him" while you're flanking can be really effective....of course, the charging while their flat-footed thing works too. I love the character concept. It's great. as was stated before, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, and Use Magic Device are great skills for this. I would think that maybe instead of going the paladin route, start taking a level of cleric every once in a while.... use it as your "lay on hands" also, you can get destruction and trickery to maintain the disguise. Make up a god with those domains if there isn't one in your pantheon. That way you can say you're getting some powers back, but you don't have to be a complete paladin. (CLW = lay on hands), etc. You'll be one of the most powerful paladins ever! Or at least they will say.
The_Spleen-Splitter 05-30-05, 12:25 AM	Dude, will you please not sue me if I steal your character? This guy sounds cool-er than my character. Also, if your character goes good, he could take the Slayer of Domeil PrC from Exalted Deeds. It's like assassin, only exalted. :angel:
PrinceAzar 05-30-05, 01:09 AM	No problem Spleen Splitter, i'm prepping this guy rule wise, because i'll be applying him in a little over a week, when my DM finally gets a break from work. :cool: Yea, the Slayer of Domiel is basically an assassin who applies his skills for the light, though either this guy will progress more as a plain rogue, or be influenced by his mockery of chivalry and kindess and eventually turn into a true paladin.