I need help working out some animal companion rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

I need help working out some animal companion rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
petalred
01-07-08, 09:24 PM I'm a reasonably new player, so I'm sorry if this is common sense stuff, but I have a level 3 druid character with a hawk for an animal companion. I thought putting together the animal companion was easy enough at level 1, but after hitting level 3 I realized I might have been doing some things wrong and wasn't quite sure how some things worked. The saving throws, armor class, grapple modifier, etc., took me some time to figure out, but I'm confident I figured out what I was doing for those. The skill points and the feats, on the other hand, have me baffled. So, my questions are:

1) Does the hawk start with both the feats listed in the Monster Manual? Or are those the only feats I have to choose from? I started the hawk out with both of them, but after leveling up and realizing how many things I'd done wrong, I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible the hawk was only supposed to start with one, or none.

2) The skills listed under "hawk" in the Monster Manual are Listen +4, Spot +16, but are those ranks? Miscellaneous bonuses for the skills? Do I need to break these numbers down like I needed to do for almost everything else? For instance, since the hawk's WIS score is 14 (modifier +2), does that mean Spot +16 is really: ability modifier +2 with miscellaneous modifier +14? Or is the +16 a modifier in addition to the +2 ability modifier?

3) Are Spot and Listen the hawk's class skills? Are they the hawk's only class skills? Or does the hawk have no class skills at all? If I want to spend my new skill points elsewhere, do I have to spend two skill points to get a single rank in some or any skills? And back to question 2, is it possible the hawk already has ranks in Listen and Spot? Does that mean I'm limited by the hawk's level in terms of how many more ranks I can add?

4) And to tie it all together I'm having a hard time finding information in the Monster Manual about when and how many feats and skill points are acquired throughout the level progression of an animal companion. The Player's Handbook says of animal companions that they pick up skill points and feats as usual for a monster character, but I can't find what that means exactly. Are feats at every third level, as with players? I assume skill points are at every level, but how many? And since the hawk progresses every few levels with regard to most features, rather than every level, would he receive skill points for every level he goes up? Or just for each progression he makes in terms of his other abilities?

Anyway, any help with any of this would be fantastic. I realized the tiny little animal companion section on the character sheet was woefully inadequate after attempting to figure this all out, and went ahead and made up a character sheet specifically for animal companions, so it's easier to keep track of everything when leveling up.
petalred
01-07-08, 09:58 PM Oh, the other thing I couldn't figure out was attack bonus for the talons. They're listed as Talons +5 melee in the Monster Manual. This reads to me as though they have a +5 attack bonus. At level 1, though, the hawk's base attack bonus is 0, its size bonus is +2, and it's STR modifier is -2. Does that mean the Talons have a miscellaneous bonus of +5 for some reason? At level 3, should the talons have a total attack bonus of +7 (+2 base, -2 STR, +2 size, +5 misc.)?

Also, I just noticed in the section in the Monster Manual under the hawk's stats where it elaborates a little more it says "Hawks have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks." This leaves me even more confused. Am I to assume, then, that +16 Spot means +2 WIS, +8 racial, 6 ranks? And that +4 Listen means +2 WIS, 2 ranks? How can a level 1 creature have 6 ranks in something?
Legdiwena
01-07-08, 10:10 PM +5 is +2 from size and +3 Dex from Weapon Finesse
+16 spot is +8 racial +2 alertness +2 Wis +4 ranks
+4 Listen is +2 Alertness +2 Wis
Weapon Finesse is a bonus feat, he automatically gets it.
The feat for 1st HD, not sure if you pick or DM picks.
Not sure on skill points per level, but based on -4 int and 4 skill points at first HD, would assume he either has 2 or 4 skill points per level.

Did I miss any questions?
petalred
01-07-08, 10:22 PM Wow, that all makes a lot of sense and is extremely helpful. Just to clarify, though, you're saying that Weapon Finesse and Alertness are both bonus feats AND the hawk should have another first level feat? or you're saying that Weapon Finesse is a bonus feat and Alertness is the first level feat chosen in the Monster Manual, but that it isn't necessarily the only option?

Other than that, the only things I'm still confused about are:
1) Does the hawk get skill points for level 2, or just for level 3 (when it gets all of its other bonuses)? Do I skip skill points for the levels that fall within the same ability bracket as the previous level?
2) Where can I find out how many skill points the hawk gets per level, and where can I find out when it gets additional feats? Do the feats and things work exactly like a player character, where I get them at first, third, sixth, etc.? Does that mean at 4th level the hawk also gets an additional point for one of its ability scores (beyond the Str/Dex bonuses it gets just for being an animal companion)?

Thanks!
rambaldi
01-07-08, 10:25 PM Might i suggest a few of the old rules of the game articles, havent read through them all and they unfortunately dont link together easy but:
http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070109a

that should be the one with animals. you can find the archive at http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg

hope it helps
Dalzig
01-07-08, 11:06 PM I have a couple questions myself.

Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD).Going by this, an animal companion with 3HD would have a BAB of +2. It's Fortitude and Reflex saves would be +4. Is this correct or does that just mean it progresses the same?
petalred
01-07-08, 11:34 PM I finally found the section in the Manual about skill points and feats, so I think I'm all taken care of. Thanks everyone!

As for saving throws, as I understand it, an animal companion with 3HD does indeed have a base attack bonus of +2, and it's base saves are Fortitude +3, Reflex +3, Will +1. With the hawk's Dexterity (+4) and Wisdom (+2) bonuses to those base scores, it leaves me with 3, 7, and 3 for my hawk's saving throws, but with other types of animals the numbers will obviously be different. The Dexterity bonus is +4 because of the Strength and Dexterity bonuses the animals get at 3HD. Hopefully that helps!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
petalred 01-07-08, 09:24 PM	I'm a reasonably new player, so I'm sorry if this is common sense stuff, but I have a level 3 druid character with a hawk for an animal companion. I thought putting together the animal companion was easy enough at level 1, but after hitting level 3 I realized I might have been doing some things wrong and wasn't quite sure how some things worked. The saving throws, armor class, grapple modifier, etc., took me some time to figure out, but I'm confident I figured out what I was doing for those. The skill points and the feats, on the other hand, have me baffled. So, my questions are: 1) Does the hawk start with both the feats listed in the Monster Manual? Or are those the only feats I have to choose from? I started the hawk out with both of them, but after leveling up and realizing how many things I'd done wrong, I'm beginning to wonder if it's possible the hawk was only supposed to start with one, or none. 2) The skills listed under "hawk" in the Monster Manual are Listen +4, Spot +16, but are those ranks? Miscellaneous bonuses for the skills? Do I need to break these numbers down like I needed to do for almost everything else? For instance, since the hawk's WIS score is 14 (modifier +2), does that mean Spot +16 is really: ability modifier +2 with miscellaneous modifier +14? Or is the +16 a modifier in addition to the +2 ability modifier? 3) Are Spot and Listen the hawk's class skills? Are they the hawk's only class skills? Or does the hawk have no class skills at all? If I want to spend my new skill points elsewhere, do I have to spend two skill points to get a single rank in some or any skills? And back to question 2, is it possible the hawk already has ranks in Listen and Spot? Does that mean I'm limited by the hawk's level in terms of how many more ranks I can add? 4) And to tie it all together I'm having a hard time finding information in the Monster Manual about when and how many feats and skill points are acquired throughout the level progression of an animal companion. The Player's Handbook says of animal companions that they pick up skill points and feats as usual for a monster character, but I can't find what that means exactly. Are feats at every third level, as with players? I assume skill points are at every level, but how many? And since the hawk progresses every few levels with regard to most features, rather than every level, would he receive skill points for every level he goes up? Or just for each progression he makes in terms of his other abilities? Anyway, any help with any of this would be fantastic. I realized the tiny little animal companion section on the character sheet was woefully inadequate after attempting to figure this all out, and went ahead and made up a character sheet specifically for animal companions, so it's easier to keep track of everything when leveling up.
petalred 01-07-08, 09:58 PM	Oh, the other thing I couldn't figure out was attack bonus for the talons. They're listed as Talons +5 melee in the Monster Manual. This reads to me as though they have a +5 attack bonus. At level 1, though, the hawk's base attack bonus is 0, its size bonus is +2, and it's STR modifier is -2. Does that mean the Talons have a miscellaneous bonus of +5 for some reason? At level 3, should the talons have a total attack bonus of +7 (+2 base, -2 STR, +2 size, +5 misc.)? Also, I just noticed in the section in the Monster Manual under the hawk's stats where it elaborates a little more it says "Hawks have a +8 racial bonus on Spot checks." This leaves me even more confused. Am I to assume, then, that +16 Spot means +2 WIS, +8 racial, 6 ranks? And that +4 Listen means +2 WIS, 2 ranks? How can a level 1 creature have 6 ranks in something?
Legdiwena 01-07-08, 10:10 PM	+5 is +2 from size and +3 Dex from Weapon Finesse +16 spot is +8 racial +2 alertness +2 Wis +4 ranks +4 Listen is +2 Alertness +2 Wis Weapon Finesse is a bonus feat, he automatically gets it. The feat for 1st HD, not sure if you pick or DM picks. Not sure on skill points per level, but based on -4 int and 4 skill points at first HD, would assume he either has 2 or 4 skill points per level. Did I miss any questions?
petalred 01-07-08, 10:22 PM	Wow, that all makes a lot of sense and is extremely helpful. Just to clarify, though, you're saying that Weapon Finesse and Alertness are both bonus feats AND the hawk should have another first level feat? or you're saying that Weapon Finesse is a bonus feat and Alertness is the first level feat chosen in the Monster Manual, but that it isn't necessarily the only option? Other than that, the only things I'm still confused about are: 1) Does the hawk get skill points for level 2, or just for level 3 (when it gets all of its other bonuses)? Do I skip skill points for the levels that fall within the same ability bracket as the previous level? 2) Where can I find out how many skill points the hawk gets per level, and where can I find out when it gets additional feats? Do the feats and things work exactly like a player character, where I get them at first, third, sixth, etc.? Does that mean at 4th level the hawk also gets an additional point for one of its ability scores (beyond the Str/Dex bonuses it gets just for being an animal companion)? Thanks!
rambaldi 01-07-08, 10:25 PM	Might i suggest a few of the old rules of the game articles, havent read through them all and they unfortunately dont link together easy but: http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070109a that should be the one with animals. you can find the archive at http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg hope it helps
Dalzig 01-07-08, 11:06 PM	I have a couple questions myself. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a druid of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD).Going by this, an animal companion with 3HD would have a BAB of +2. It's Fortitude and Reflex saves would be +4. Is this correct or does that just mean it progresses the same?
petalred 01-07-08, 11:34 PM	I finally found the section in the Manual about skill points and feats, so I think I'm all taken care of. Thanks everyone! As for saving throws, as I understand it, an animal companion with 3HD does indeed have a base attack bonus of +2, and it's base saves are Fortitude +3, Reflex +3, Will +1. With the hawk's Dexterity (+4) and Wisdom (+2) bonuses to those base scores, it leaves me with 3, 7, and 3 for my hawk's saving throws, but with other types of animals the numbers will obviously be different. The Dexterity bonus is +4 because of the Strength and Dexterity bonuses the animals get at 3HD. Hopefully that helps!