Post/Author/DateTime	Post
YoMammasAjedi 11-25-03, 10:48 PM	I need some help in resolving a role-playing issue that has come up in the campaign I’m currently in. My present gaming group consists of 2 players and a DM. I play a 2nd level, LG, Dwarven cleric/fighter of Clangeddin Silverbeard and the other guy is playing a LN (but wishes he was CE) Human Thief. Anyways, because there’s only the two of us my DM created a “filler” character to give us backup when needed, plus he’s always wanted to play a character like this. He created a 3rd level, LE, Elven wizard. Our mission was to rescue two kidnapped women. The first conflict between me and the DM occurred when we were fighting the kidnappers. They were both elves and after my dwarf attacked and killed one of them the other dropped her weapon and surrendered. My dwarf, (seeing an enemy dropping her guard) proceeded to hack her to bits. My DM threatens to deduct 200 xp for bad role-playing because he thinks that a LG character wouldn’t do that. I say to him “First of all, I’m a dwarf attacking an elven kidnapper. Second, I’m a cleric of a Dwarven God of War!” and the argument ensues. Our second character conflict occurs when we come upon a magical great sword in some loot. My dwarf, being the closest thing to a fighter in the group begins foaming at the mouth and grabs the sword and says that he’s going to use it with the intent of selling it at the right time and splitting the loot. This was fine (at the time) with both of my traveling companions due to the fact that I’m the “heavy hitter” of the group. Anyways, our first encounter shortly thereafter yielded some unwanted results. I threw the sword at a goblin in order to kill it **enter the rest of the battle** and at the end of the battle the wizard picks up the sword. My dwarf reaches out his hand to retrieve it and the wizard says “No, I think I’ll hold it for awhile.” Needless to say that this didn’t settle well with the dwarf and he says “What does a scroll bender know about swinging a sword!?!” and demands the blade back. Again, the elf refused saying that we agreed to split the loot evenly 3 ways. My dwarf again countered with the fact that he’s a wizard. Trying to stick to my alignment I didn’t try to hack off his head then and there, my dwarf just curses and walks off. The wizard then precedes to hand the sword to the thief, (just to **** off the dwarf) unto which he slings it over his back. After they catch up to me my character sees that the thief now has the sword and becomes enraged thinking that the “damned elf” gave it to the thief just to disrespect him. My dwarf stands face to face with the elf and says “Now yur just disrespectin’ me an ye better watch yur step! The elf blurts out an insult and my dwarf attacks with a punch. (unto which I rolled a 1, lol) The wizard steps back and threatens me with a spell, again, I walk off. A few minutes later and a lot of ignoring as well, the elf offers the blade back to my character. He responded by taking the sword and throwing it down the hall because he now thought that the whole reason that all of this went down was just to deface and disrespect him and now that it bit the elf in the ass he’s trying to suck up. hehe Don’t you just love prideful dwarves! :ayyyy!: Now there’s some serious bad blood between the two of them and the DM still threatened to take away experience points for bad role-playing and said that I’d better watch my step! My question is, was I role-playing this all wrong!?! When I play a dwarf, I play the hardcore, surly, mistrusting, ass-kicking kind. I think that the fact that I’m traveling with an elf at all showed my LG side. Am I wrong in both of these situations? Please give me some advice and opinions because I really don’t think I’m in the wrong here. What should I do if my dwarf finds out he’s evil? Sorry for the length by the way and thanks!
The Man of Three Waters 11-25-03, 11:09 PM	looks alright to me I don't now about the god, but id assume that he is sorta -kickbutt when you can, fight the good fight, dont take **** from no one, repesct elders/clan/those who earn it. ( am i right?) First thing i suggest when having RP problems is to look at the age//personality of the other person(s) After that comes out you can see if it's a 1. Elves are sacred (legolas, Drizzit, Tanis) 2. I'm DM. Bite me! 3. My way or the highway 4. I'm new at this 5. This is my age//maturity and it' s stuck for now
Glock-9mm 11-26-03, 12:34 AM	Here is how Id have handled the issue of your "LG, Dwarven, Cleric of War" killing the Elf from your perspective. Ive played a Priest of War recently myself, a "LE, Human, Cleric of War". Id have considered him surrended and thus out of combat, Even though my Cleric was LE I'd not have hacked him down where he stood but escorted him to the local authorties and allowed them to legally handle the matter. My character would have considered (Hacking him down when surrending) as cold blooded murder. But thats how I played my PC, Laws were Laws and Murder was Murder. My suggestion is that you need to think about 2 things that both relate to each other. 1: How does your character veiw his Gods Tennants and how do you interprit them in everyday life. 2: Next, Take your characters "views/persona" and his outlook on his "Gods Tennants" into account. What alignment do you honestly think would best suit this character? Personally, I don't come up with the answer being LG Im sorry.
Mr. Wilson 11-26-03, 12:46 AM	Even the Geneva convention claims it to be a war crime if you kill off enemy combatants that have surrendered. I don't view killing a foe as Lawful or Good. And I'd bet bottom dollar that the LG dwarven War God also sees things that way. Throughout the ages, murdering your foes was seen as bad form to most honorable warriors.
thorjarle 11-26-03, 12:55 AM	I mean (and my DM does mean the same) that you dont loose xp for being evil. I dont think that you have roleplayed wrong? What is bad roleplaying? You play the character as you like. I bet that you wouldnt kill innocent people with an axe in real life, so you are roleplaying. It sounds like the DM is making a character that is going to have all the loot. I had a DM once that made the story himself, and he played a character too, and that character knew where all the magic treasures was and ran ahead and fetched them before the others could get there. THAT is bad roleplaying.
Elendur 11-26-03, 01:04 AM	Killing opponents who surrender is not good. Period. Just change your alignment to LN. I find most people's idea of a 'typical' dwarf to be much closer close to LN than LG. And getting into a fist fight with an ally over loot is hardly going to qualify you for the goody hall of fame. The rest sounds fine, but I do wonder if there is a bit of player conflict involved, rather than character conflict.
SureFoot 11-26-03, 09:56 AM	Killing a foe who has surrendered is not "not good," it's evil. It's also chaotic. Depending on the circumstance, your DM might have been justified to have your character lose clerical abilities until atonement. However, you shoudl NOT be docked XP, EVER, for anything except what's already called for in game mechanics (creating magic items, death, a rare few magic items). This practice is overly punitive and counterproductive. Having said both of those things, I believe that the way you handled the second scenario wasn't particularly bad role playing (of course, this is after hearing only your side of the exchange, and not knowing your character's history). What you must consider, though, is the fact that your acting pretty radically out of alignment once (killing a surrendered, unarmed foe) put the DM's radar up, so that he'd be all the more likely to come down on you for minor "role playing" infractions, particularly in the same session. What shoudl you do? Talk to your DM out-of-game. Discuss both situations (as they *are* separate, unrelated issues). It sounds like you were not really aware of the CE nature of killing surrendered foes, and you shoudl tell him so, and I'd suggest offer to have your character atone. Then you shoudl handle the second situation, stating why you did not think you were donig "bad role playing" and asking the DM, specifically what was "bad role playing" in his mind. Finally, as an aside--if I was in a campaign where the DM actually deducted XP as a punnishment, I'd argue vehemently against that silly practice. If he did not relent, I'd leave the campaign.
Darkwin6 11-26-03, 06:33 PM	Even a LG character can be ****** off enoght to kill. And although it's an evil act it could quite easily happen especially during war. Let's say and enemy jumps out from behind a tree blows away three of you squad mates, yells: "HA HA!", throws down his weapon and runs away. Now, according to the Geneva convention you're not allowed to shoot him, (also you're not allowed to shoot at enemies in inflatable boats. The Geneva convention can suck my balls) and he's unarmed and running away. Killing him may be an evil act, but it's sure as hell understandable even from a LG character. And well..who doesn't hate elves. Killing them is always understandable. :)
Mordenkainen's Rubber Duck of DOOM 11-26-03, 07:04 PM	Originally posted by Darkwin6 Even a LG character can be ****** off enoght to kill. And although it's an evil act it could quite easily happen especially during war. Let's say and enemy jumps out from behind a tree blows away three of you squad mates, yells: "HA HA!", throws down his weapon and runs away. Now, according to the Geneva convention you're not allowed to shoot him, (also you're not allowed to shoot at enemies in inflatable boats. The Geneva convention can suck my balls) and he's unarmed and running away. Killing him may be an evil act, but it's sure as hell understandable even from a LG character. And well..who doesn't hate elves. Killing them is always understandable. :) But he hasn't surrendered yet, he just dropped his weapon at your feet and ran. And Lawful Good. Killing Prisoners. Kill a Person Who Surrenders= Chaotic Evil. No Excuses Due To Being A Stereotypical Dwarf. (NEDTBASD clause)
Bunga 11-26-03, 07:12 PM	If you kill a surrendered foe, you are not, in any way shape or form, LG. I would have switched you to N in a second. It is not Good, and it is not Lawfull. The rest of your actions were pretty in-character however. And as has already been said, you should never be docked EXP for any reason other than item creation, negative levels, and so on.
Darkwin6 11-26-03, 07:30 PM	But he hasn't surrendered yet, he just dropped his weapon at your feet and ran. Yeah, you're not allowed to shoot them when they've dropped their weapon and runs away either. (It's a WAR-CRIME. oooh) If you kill a surrendered foe, you are not, in any way shape or form, LG. I'm under the impression that even though you're LG, all of your actions may not be. Punishing someone witch EXP penalties for something like this is ridiculous. Changing their alignment is ok, but not after ONE incident.
RobTzu 11-28-03, 04:24 PM	I am both a student of history and a war veteran. I just got back from Iraq a week aqo. There is several reason's why it is both "Good" and smart to treat prisoners well. If anyone has read the Art of War by Sun Tzu, they can skip these. An enemy that knows death awaits him will fight to the end and take as many of his enemies with him. At the end of conflicts, P.O.W.'s are returned. They will bring back an impression of their captors. There was a reason the Germans in World War II tried like hell to be captured by the Armericans as opposed to the Soviets. The safest place in the world for a German male 16-40 was in an Armerican, or British, P.O.W. camp. Historically, your enemy and ally switched frequently. One had to be able to work with him after the current conflict. Look at how Bismark handled Prussia. He had the chance to humilate France, but chose otherwise. The reason World War II was fought is that the allies of the first war treated their prisoner (Germany) poorly after the war. These lessons apply to D&D equally well.
Dragoninawheelchair 11-28-03, 04:41 PM	The only thing I have to say that you did wrong was the possiblely killing the elf that surrendered. Although if he tortured or beat the kidnappies then it was probably justified. The rest of it was a LG Dwarf to the tee, he's stubborn, prideful, and takes an insult like a jester to start a duel. Just because your LG doesn't mean you have to walk around being nice to everyone. You can still throw insults and defend your honor, especially important to a dwarf, let alone a dwarven cleric of a war diety.
Bunga 11-28-03, 06:07 PM	Originally posted by Darkwin6 I'm under the impression that even though you're LG, all of your actions may not be. Punishing someone witch EXP penalties for something like this is ridiculous. Changing their alignment is ok, but not after ONE incident. What I meant was that if he consistently does it or defends his actions afterwards, he is not acting LG. Sure, in some circumstances it might be ok (although I cannot think of any offhand), but the action is not LG. I might not shift him away from LG directly, but I'd let the player know he is toeing the line.
cthulhu42 11-28-03, 08:36 PM	I'm currently in a game with a LG dwarf priest of Clangedin. My character is also LG. The rest of the party is pretty much CG/NG. Generaly we try like heck to never kill prisoners, but it doesn't always work out that way. Situation 1: Ambushed by a horde of goblins while on our way to an important location. My wizard Slept several of the buggers, so after the battle we're stuck with them. We're on a time schedual so we have no time to take them to the law; we can't just let them go for fear of them getting up to more evil against innocent/helpless folk; can't tie em up and leave them as thats tantamount to killing them anyway; can't take em with us for many obvious reasons. After much debate it was finaly decided that we'd have to be judge, jury and excecutioner. The dwarf took on the job and cleanly and painlessly lopped off about nine goblin heads. This situation was role played quite well and it was obvious that killing these prisoners was a last resort that was quite unsettling to us all, even the CG/NG's. I think, due to the role playing, our DM didn't hold this act against us. The dwarf did some serious praying at the next temple he came to. He's an honerable chap, and no matter how deeply his hatred of goblinoids is he takes no joy in killing a defensless foe. Oh, and one other thing, our party works directly for the kingdome, and therefore we sort of have the authority to be judge, jury and excecutioner if need be. At least we can rationalise it. Situation 2: We get into a battle with several orcs and I Sleep a handfull of them. The rest of the party charges into the next room where even more orcs and an ogre lay in wait, and the battle is on. An orc flips a switch and water begins to gush up from a grate back down the hallway. So theres my wizard standing over half a dozen sleeping orcs and watching the water make its way down the hall. I know as soon as the water hits them they are likely to wake up, and I don't think we'll be able to take the current orcs/ogre as well as these guys when they wake up. So, with horror in his heart, he begins to fire point blank crossbow shots into the sleeping orcs. It was a hard desision, and one that still haunts my character, but sometimes even the most well intentioned among us must defer to practicality. Again, the DM didn't hold it against us. The situation was what it was, and had I not killed those orcs they may well have turned the tide of that battle against us. Conversly, we have gone out of our way several times to take prisoners in to face the law. This helps to offset those desperate times mentioned above. In general I think that most good aligned characters, especially LG, should refrain from murdering helpless foes. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do, but for the most part its a matter of honor. I also agree that docking you xp is lame. Your DM is going to gut shoot his own game if he keeps up that kind of crap. I'll tell you this much: For my money just the fact that your a LG cleric traveling and helping a LE character is more of a detriment than slaying a prisoner. Sooner or later your going to have to comprimise your faith, and that will be your DM's fault for insisting on playing a LE NPC. W/r/t your second dilema, I think the elf/DM was being a butt and just yanking your chain. My advise: Next time you find a wand, claim it! Scrolls? They're yours! Any magic items specificly made for wizards, you'll carry them, thank you very much. Your GOING to butt heads with this wizard, sooner or later. Your alignments will clash, things will splinter and the campagin will go down the drain. Just try to be the last one standing. Lawfull Good doesn't mean Lawfull Stupid. Personaly, I'd wait until you can justify it, then wait until he's out of spells, call him out, and feed him healthy dose of dwarven steel. Chances are your DM will screw you, but it'll probably be worth it.
TonePoet77 12-06-03, 12:08 AM	AH, the beauty of being a creator, and seeing your creation spin madly out of control. Drow would love this. I feel it is about time to comment on this post, seeing as how I am said DM for said campaign! Not only that, but the alarming response of people claiming they know what's what and assuming I must be some jack*** or idiot has lead me to once again doubt the current chance of survival for the human race... most of you shop at Wal-Mart, don't you? To the topic at hand: LG characters do not kill foes who have surrendered. That's how I feel about it, and guess what? When I am DMing, in case of an all out, nuclear war argument, my ruling stands and the game goes on. HAVING SAID THAT, it seems incredibly near-sighted that no one picked up on the fact the the threat to dock exp was simply that - A THREAT!!! One could postulate that we're all able to achieve some form of higher thought, above and beyond hurling insults at a DM we've never met, but then again, I may be giving a few people just too much credit. Let's add this to the mix: I am, in fact, a long-time player, and short-time DM. I'll be the first to tell you I suck. And I'll bet that "yomammasajedi" would be willing to refute that, and give me some credit as a decent DM. I find that, like MOST EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING, we all tend to learn by seeing, doing, and associating. Imagine my current glee when this post pops up, and I am put on the proverbial "Salem stake" to burn! All this when, with my first adventure with "yomamma" DMing, he threatens to dock a player exp for shooting a harmless Rothe, despite being a ranger! Back the truck up! Or the wagon! One could surmise, from experience mind you, that if a person does such a thing as a DM, then it must also be acceptable as a player. Moving on to the dolt-heads that say I am an idiot for playing a lawful evil wizard in a LG/N group (the theif is actually TN, turning NE on purpose), I took the opportunity to play (caution - spoiler ahead) A VILLAIN! Heaven forbid!!!!!!!!!!!! My god, how could I weasel my way into the party with a negative influence! Shame on me... I only encouraged more roleplaying, then and later, as well as kept things moving, all the while except only what the pc's gave me as treasure (treasure stealer my butt), and being a pain in the rear, and evil, when I saw fit. My NPC was jealous of the dwarf's sword. We agreed to an equal share of the treasure (even shook hands), and as such, my NPC thought it was a good time to carry the sword for a third of the time - I DID IT SPECIFICALLY TO MAKE THINGS INTERESTING. Let's move on to tying it all up - - - I never said I would dock exp for "bad roleplaying," or at least that's not what I said at first (might have been a convenient way to say it). Killing an innocent is out of LG character in my mind - I gave a player a warning, in the form of the threat to dock exp, if he didn't play a little more LG. In hindsight, I thing I may have been wro... what the hell am I saying?! I WAS DEAD RIGHT!!! Hehehehe! A tool used (by him as a DM as well - I was taught by one of the best, because trust me, his campaigns rock) to motivate a player to play more in what he had declared his character to be. Plain and simple (as if I have said anything here simply). I seem to remember a variant rule for docking exp somewhere... nevermind that. I have never docked exp, EVER, in any quest I have DMed. Yes, all you naysayers out there, an alignment change or an atonement would be more justified - AND I THANK YOU FOR BEING CONSTRUCTIVE, RATHER THAN "Holier than That DM!!" As for those with the foresight to respond with wise and thoughtful comments, I thank yee all, you have made our gaming experience a better one. As for those of you Wal-Mart shoppers out there, you simply amaze me with your unfashionable, toilet-bowl minds. I am SURE you've never done anything dumb in your life. OR ANYTHING THAT SOMEONE ELSE MISCONSTRUED - oops, too big a word there - TOOK THE WRONG WAY AND JUDGED YOU AS AN IDIOT WITHOUT HERE YOUR SIDE OF IT!!! You, the hateful dumbies of the board, get my most sincere medal of honor - I can tell you this... yomammas and I had quite the laugh over your incredulous, mind flayer-induced brain fart answers. Your lack of humor or wit sincerely had us rolling!!!
TonePoet77 12-06-03, 12:16 AM	Darnit - forgot something... I get the "idiot of the day" award, for calling some of you Wal-Mart shoppers... all the while not spelling a few words correctly. The foot is in the mouth, at least as far as attacking some of your intelligence... nah, I'm still smarter. Just one last point of interest - I am a short-lived DM in this group... I have DMed over the last 5 years, but just for the past month and a half with this group. Anyway, thanks again to those who gave thoughtful response - it did help things out, and I did not mean to stir controversy and discontent to my player with a exp threat. I promise to use an alignment change or an atonement (maybe evena quest!) in the future. Peace, The Poet of Tone
thorjarle 12-06-03, 01:49 AM	Your gamer came here for help, we gave him our points of wiew. To call us names was a bit over the top.
TonePoet77 12-06-03, 12:21 PM	I meant only to point out that several post were down right rude and not very nice, and by playing a similar game, I have succeeded. Besides, is "Wal-Mart Shopper" really as bad as "idiot," "treasure stealer," "bad role player," or "horrible DM" (liberal paraphrasing)? Were those comments not made in order to ellicit some response? I mean, we can debate until we're all blue in the face about who's right and who's wrong, and never once have to say something degrading, let alone make a jodgement call on someone's character (as in personality) or other such similar things. I only sunk to the level which was previously set by those folk on this message board who deemed it necessary to be destructive rather than constructive (or a lot more of the former as opposed to the latter). So excuse me if I offend, but is it not at least fair to allow to sling a mega-giant's low prices and dim-witted, crooked-cart-driving visitors back at you in my defense? I am not granted my chance to adress the jury, to at least defend my idiotic bad dungeon mastering, my shrewd attempts to apparently steal everything (as you pointed out, thor), so one and so forth? Aside from the fact that this is silly, and is no real cause for being upset, I AM having great fun with it, and hope it is at least providing entertainment to those who were nice enough to refrain from calling ME bad names. It is just a shame that someone who did had to call me out, because now you just look bad. Even by lowering myself to sling insults, I get to at least enjoy some witty banter, which, to say the least, is what this is all about! So excuse if I have dealt too harsh a hand. I mean no offense, and was only trying to respond to some of you in a way you'd understand (which I assumed you'd understand since it was the way you posted). I take it all back in the interest of kindness and fair play. Except the Wal-Mart part. I know YOU shop at Wal-Mart...
thorjarle 12-06-03, 03:43 PM	I wasnt telling that you were stealing all the stuff, I was pointing out what bad roleplaying was. I am not shopping at Wal-Mart, cause they dont excist here in Norway:) Well, I hope that the board starts a new main thread that is called "Wat-s a DM to Do?", cause I would love to have that when I am making a mess of my DM'ing. I have never DM'ed a DnD game, but are going to start pretty soon if our present GM stops. (I pray to Morrow that he never quits!)
Heron_Marked_Blade 12-06-03, 06:03 PM	Nope, not providing entertainment. I shop at Wal-Mart. (Welcome to Bentonville, AR.) But I'll be gracious this time and not assume you're including me in your pillorizing of "Wal-Mart shoppers". This once. And even though your use of that category as an insult reduces your replies to the level of "Ignore Me," I'll deign to reply to you. As I said, I'm feeling gracious. Regarding the topic, I think the second situation was very well roleplayed. That's just what an offended dwarf *might* do, and to threaten to dock EXP for that is to punish a player unjustly. The excuse that it's "just a threat" is invalid, since, coming from the all-powerful DM, a player *has* to take that threat seriously. It's one thing to say that he'll be "SMITTEN with the wrath of Lord Ao and of the Nine Hells," but to threaten to take away EXP....not a good method of PC control in my book. The first situation is always a more difficult scenario; what to do with "prisoners" in a world of absolute morals is a tough call. One thing to keep in mind is to NOT treat a LG character as though he has to adhere to a Paladin's code. LG does not equal Paladin virtue! A general rule I use in the campaign I run is that roleplaying problems are dealt with in-game. If a LG character is doing something a LG character shouldn't be doing, he'll feel the ramifications in-game (through his church, interaction with other people, etc) rather than out-of-game. OOG "punishment" (i.e. docking EXP) should be a last resort. That's generally considered the last step before kicking a player out of a group. As such, threats of that nature are usually taken seriously. Regarding the inclusion of LG and LE (and soon to be NE) characters in a party, that's something that is destined to cause in-game conflict, which usually leads to out-of-game conflict (as it has already). If you're trying to enforce LG alignment behavior in the dwarf, think about enforcing it in regard to his continuing to adventure with the other two characters. My 2cp. Good luck with your game.
was_fired 12-06-03, 07:47 PM	The act of killing the prisoner was chaotic neutral. Chaotic since it went against any sort of external legal system which is built into dwarven culture if we are to accept that the use of sterotypes is a valid roleplaying experiance (which it is imo). It is neutral since frankly the players had no way of knowing how to contain their attackers which were clearly hostile. This is not a case of a paladin detecting a minor evil aura and slaughtering an inn keeper. As far as he knew they were hostile. The attack on your party member of an item is also chaotic with no major factor on the good and evil scale. I would say minor evil on the grounds that it is being selfish, but why didn't you simply ask to trade part of your share of equal value for it? If you did and I forgot about it while reading through the DM debates I appologise.
Darkwin6 12-07-03, 07:22 AM	Is this supposed to be replies to THIS thread? I meant only to point out that several post were down right rude Which ones then? Besides, is "Wal-Mart Shopper" really as bad as "idiot," "treasure stealer," "bad role player," or "horrible DM" (liberal paraphrasing)? Maybe not, but no one have actually called you any of these things have they? Only one comment comes even close to an insult is this: W/r/t your second dilema, I think the elf/DM was being a butt and just yanking your chain. And when the wizard wants to "carry" the sword that could actually be useful to the rest of the party then he is being a butt. Just as if the fighter insisted on carrying the scrolls one third of the time. The most offensive quote I could find about your persona was this one:I am, in fact, a long-time player, and short-time DM. I'll be the first to tell you I suck. and you posted that yourself.
TonePoet77 12-07-03, 05:02 PM	Thor: I believe there is a "What's a DM to Do?" board here somewhere... since I'm typing this I can't look, but I think it is under the DMG section, just like this is under the PHB section. Also, I'd like to move to Norway, to escape Wal-mart. Heron: You're right on, and as I said, I can be a little new at this at times, but was also following that particular player's example when he DMed. But, I think the in game ideas all had were much better anyway, so I'll deem it necessary to choose one of those or somethin similar next time. Darkwin: Merely point out the "you dm is stupid," "your dm is a bad roleplayer," and etc etc are petty insults, especially from those with only 1 side of the story. The part I said about sucking... well, either a person is egotistical and worships themselves because they think they're great, the whole "I rule because I just do" type, or they are the self-depricating, "I suck no matter what" type - or maybe a mixture of the two (rough estimates here). I happen to fall into the latter comment, and also, since I was trying to keep the tone light and in jest, I poked fun at myself. It helps sarcasm come over a bit better on a message board if it's silly, and also if you can poke fun at yourself. Sincerely, this board rules. I have, actually and surprisingly, got a LOT of good ideas from folks about how to handle this next time, and so has the player in question, too.
Darkwin6 12-07-03, 05:38 PM	Merely point out the "you dm is stupid," "your dm is a bad roleplayer," I have read and re-read this thread and I can't find anyone saying this or anything like it. If I'm wrong, show me.
YoMammasAjedi 12-08-03, 03:54 AM	I'd like to thank all of you that have posted to my questions. As my DM said we've taken alot of good info away from this posting. Just to give you a heads up on what happened during our last gaming session: The dwarf whilst in his morning prayer saw the error of his ways. He went over to the elf and said "I reckon we owe each other an apology, me fer hittin ye and you fer disrespectin me!" He went on to say how he sometimes forgets how different other folk think and how he tends to forget himself in battle. He also said "If you don't think ye should apologize then I'll take me share o' the loot and be on me way in peace." After this they kissed and made up and are conspiring to kill the theif if he mentions Teflamme one more time <--- private joke :D Thanks again everyone! Peace