Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nickels 04-27-08, 09:22 AM	Help! This guy we invited is ruining our game. He never role plays, he complains and we think he cheats his dice rolls. Equally hes become rather annoying but instead of not asking him to come any more, id like to kill his character. I am a lvl 2 sorcerer and he is a lvl 2 monk. The DM is on my side. What am i to do! Thanks
Jaim 04-27-08, 09:42 AM	Grow up :P
AlanBruce 04-27-08, 09:52 AM	You are aware of the bad blood this move will create amongst you guys if you decide to kill his PC. The best solution si always to talk to the player and get him to reach some form of commitment where he is not being so annoying for the rest of you. Barring that, you can always ask him to leave (after all, he's a guest player, so he shouldn't take it too personally). However... if you do want to blatantly eliminate his PC in game, your best bet would be to rally the other party members with you and gang up on him (I'm assuming there are more than just your sorcerer and the monk here, right?) If everybody agrees with you, take him down. Shouldn't be that hard, considering his low HP and BAB (not sure about his AC, but Magic Missile bypasses that and since you're all 2nd level, I doubt he has access to magic items that significantly raise his AC). As I mentioned earlier, you could kill this monk quickly... give it a round or two, but only if the party backs you up. Of course, my first suggestion is the one I'd go with before considering PvP action. And I think the DM should alienate itself as much as possible from this one. You guys have it covered (once again, if it's a 4-man party). Good luck
Demetri_Knighthawk 04-27-08, 10:20 AM	killing the character will do no good since he will just make another, killing the player however...:plotting: if you feel you Must kill off the monk, have the gm seperate the group, have everyone make will saves versus illusion, then blast the monk with MM since he looks like a monster.
The_Wild_King 04-27-08, 10:30 AM	CdG in his sleep
CrimsonDeath 04-27-08, 12:43 PM	Help! This guy we invited is ruining our game. He never role plays, he complains and we think he cheats his dice rolls. Equally hes become rather annoying but instead of not asking him to come any more, id like to kill his character. I am a lvl 2 sorcerer and he is a lvl 2 monk. The DM is on my side. What am i to do! Thanks Talk to the player, out of game, about the behavior you don't like. If that doesn't help, ask the player to stop coming to the game.
Man in the Funny Hat 04-27-08, 01:16 PM	Help! This guy we invited is ruining our game. He never role plays, he complains and we think he cheats his dice rolls. Equally hes become rather annoying but instead of not asking him to come any more, id like to kill his character. I am a lvl 2 sorcerer and he is a lvl 2 monk. The DM is on my side. What am i to do!I second the call to grow up. You don't want to play with him? Fine. Just tell him why you don't want him to play and tell him to walk. But if you ARE willing to let him play you need to talk to him, tell him why his behavior is a problem, try to work out the best solution for everyone. You have no right to petty revenge by killing his characters. Do that and you're a BIGGER ASS THAN HE IS. Your DM is even worse than you for, A) apparantly not trying to fix the problem with the player in question, B) not fixing the problem with YOUR desire to be even more of an ass, and C) actually being willing to CONTRIBUTE to the general stupidity. Kick him out if you want, you have that right, but grow up and stop being such a jerk yourself. Take the high road. Try to HELP him. Come back when you've decided to be the better person.
Black Kitten 04-27-08, 05:41 PM	Grow up :P QFT
Drackthor 04-27-08, 06:16 PM	I guess people didn't read the title of this thread. The OP wanted to know how to kill a fellow PC, he didn't ask what you thought of his decision to do so. Do I find what he's doing immature? Yes. Do you? Probably. Does that mean you should go into his thread with comments irrelevant to the topic at hand? Not in the slightest. It seems it's not just the OP who needs to grow up, quite frankly.
CrimsonDeath 04-27-08, 06:31 PM	I guess people didn't read the title of this thread. The OP wanted to know how to kill a fellow PC, he didn't ask what you thought of his decision to do so. Do I find what he's doing immature? Yes. Do you? Probably. Does that mean you should go into his thread with comments irrelevant to the topic at hand? Not in the slightest. It seems it's not just the OP who needs to grow up, quite frankly. Well, he already has a viable answer: coup de grace in the middle of the night. That doesn't change the fact that killing a character because you don't like the player isn't going to accomplish anything. Out-of-game problems need out-of-game solutions. This is like someone asking for the best brand of night-vision goggles because a lightbulb burned out. There are more efficient and reasonable ways to solve the problem, and giving the person only the specific type of advice he requested isn't the best way to help him.
DrMorganes 04-28-08, 09:29 AM	I guess people didn't read the title of this thread. The OP wanted to know how to kill a fellow PC, he didn't ask what you thought of his decision to do so. Do I find what he's doing immature? Yes. Do you? Probably. Does that mean you should go into his thread with comments irrelevant to the topic at hand? Not in the slightest. It seems it's not just the OP who needs to grow up, quite frankly. While no question was actually asked in the original post, one could infer the declarative "What am i to do!" was intended to be a question. It's vaguely worded, and therefore subject to interpretation. One could interpret it as a request for either in-game tactical advice for a fragile 2nd-level sorcerer to successfully attack and kill a more robust 2nd level monk. One may also interpret it as a request for how to deal with the actual problem of a disruptive player. Interpreted as the latter, recommendations for handling an out of character situation using out of character methods are not only relevant, but the best advice for actually fixing the problem. Broad comments like "Grow up" are also vague and less than helpful unless supported with specific recommendations, such as those provided by Man in the Funny Hat.
Man in the Funny Hat 04-28-08, 04:44 PM	I guess people didn't read the title of this thread. The OP wanted to know how to kill a fellow PC, he didn't ask what you thought of his decision to do so. Do I find what he's doing immature? Yes. Do you? Probably. Does that mean you should go into his thread with comments irrelevant to the topic at hand? Not in the slightest.So, when someone posts saying, "I am playing a game with an immature player. I want to be MORE immature than him. What's the best way we can make the situation even worse?" the correct response is to... help make the situation worse? He's being given the response he NEEDS - the responses he's ASKING for are NOT APPROPRIATE. Think again.
Zombie_Babies 04-28-08, 04:52 PM	It's going to be really difficult to beat the murder charge once the authorities see the title of this thread. Killing players is illegal. And messy.
High Octane 04-28-08, 05:20 PM	Seriously, look at your own post! "There is a player we don't like and don't want to game with and he is ruining our game, so I need to know how to kill his character." What Jaim said. OVER AND OVER. How many times have people said or asked things like this? They get the same advice/response! STOP GAMING WITH PEOPLE YOU DO NOT LIKE TO GAME WITH!
Etarnon 04-28-08, 08:17 PM	Oh this is easy. Tell him, in a loving low whisper, "God, I'm so glad you're here. I've missed you. If you quit, and DM your own game, man that would smoke." :D Good luck.
Exposed_Wires 04-28-08, 08:42 PM	I'm only going to post because of the awesome words of Otto in my sig. There are so many better ways to handle this. What the heck are you going to do when you have a ****** kid at your table? Killing characters isn't the same as killing real people. Problems actually go away when you kill people in RL. If you don't have the balls to just tell him straight that he is no fun to game with and probably doesn't belong in your group, how are you going to answer when he asks "Dude, why did you kill my character? I thought this was like a team game or something?" Are you going to avoid eye contact and say something mean and hope he just leaves?
High Octane 04-28-08, 09:05 PM	I'm only going to post because of the awesome words of Otto in my sig. There are so many better ways to handle this. What the heck are you going to do when you have a ****** kid at your table? Killing characters isn't the same as killing real people. Problems actually go away when you kill people in RL. If you don't have the balls to just tell him straight that he is no fun to game with and probably doesn't belong in your group, how are you going to answer when he asks "Dude, why did you kill my character? I thought this was like a team game or something?" Are you going to avoid eye contact and say something mean and hope he just leaves? I was thinking of that exact quote when I was writing my last post!
CrimsonDeath 04-28-08, 09:30 PM	Killing characters isn't the same as killing real people. Problems actually go away when you kill people in RL. Either way, you cause new, different, and bigger problems, though.
Exposed_Wires 04-28-08, 09:39 PM	Not if you do it right and have staggeringly loose morals. Also: Right on, Octane!
MergedLoki 04-29-08, 12:46 AM	I think the DM should of just said 'hey i'm trying to run a serious campaign here' I mean dumb actions and joking behaviour and all that are fun sometimes but not all the time. If any players in my group (fairly regular group of players, no new ppl in awhile etc.), start consistently behaving like idiots i'll just tell em 'knock it off or dont play' and they knock it off. and they dont whine about it or anything it works fine and the rest of the group (along w/ problem player) can get back to having fun playing the game.
YamiShinobi 04-29-08, 04:36 PM	killing the PC would definately be immature, you should document these "Annoyances" on a piece of paper, show the dm and have him talk. or even better, you talk to him yourself with upmost courtesy and respect. inform him of what he needs to work on. everyone can be immature at times. quitting can also be deemed immature depending on the reason. (player supposedly cheats his dice and makes annoying comments) both seem like poor reasons to leave. i have people giving me immature comments (pelorite healbot especially) i ignore because i had to live a life of constant insult and had to learn the art of "Tuning it out" so if i can tune the guy out, so should you. what are your dms houserules? especailly on stat gen, are they dice roll? and so, how many D(X) (X=number of sides) tell me more on this "cheater" i'm assuming everyone is 2nd level. i'm sure his intiiative isn't higher than +3, any higher costs a feat. his attack bonus can't be more than +5 (+3 flurry) +6 costs a feat too, he only has 2+wis (max 6) stunning fists a day and Dc11+wis (max 15) thier is now way he can have an ac of 19+ (most likely 14-16) his punches deal 1d6 bludgeoning (no more than 5-10, which i doubt as his ac would lessen if point buy) skills, the most he has is 9 per level which is highly unlikely. standard pb he wouldn't even have any of this, his hp couldnt exceed 24 (16+4 con mod of 18) (standard 13+twice con) if his numbers come even close to these or higher, you are A dealing with a cheater, B dealing with a munchkin king or C have an extremely lenient dm, or at least a bias. to get all this he would have to be 96 point buy (only one result that no dm would allow? Gasp! 6 18's) so ask if you can see his character sheet 2nd level monks only a +2or3 attack bonus (any higher means he should be a figther instead) no more than 13-16 hp (any higher means he should be a barbarain) ac of 16 or more (he should have no more than 15 unless dm is lenient on wealth or stats) only a d6 unarmed strike (no more than +2 str bonus) any weapon other than a kama or quarterstaff (should be fighter if huge weapon or rogue if weapon is light) picking fights like crazy (against monks code, a monk should be lawful and have patience, they do not make the first move, they subdue, lethal only when neccessary, if he wants to hack stuff, be a fighter, and thus he wouldn't be a monk anymore) nonlawful alignment, if the first letter in alignment is L (as in lawful) he cannot be a monk, 2nd is N, or G, a monk must be lawful and cannot be evil if dm doesn't allow it if his flurry bonus isn't either negative or higher than +1 it would weaken everything else a speed higher than 30 feet (it doesn't go up to 40 till next level) if anything exceeds these, either he is cheating, doesn't know the rules, misenterprets monks, or feat mined the dm like crazy.
Zombie_Babies 04-29-08, 04:44 PM	... Heeeee's baaaaaaaaack!
Exposed_Wires 04-29-08, 05:26 PM	Where does he find the time to be such an effective troll?
ciaran 04-29-08, 06:22 PM	What the hell was that?
YamiShinobi 04-29-08, 07:22 PM	Where does he find the time to be such an effective troll? i cut the irrelevancy out, i gave him guidelines to search for in his friends monk.
MrCustomer 04-30-08, 12:49 AM	As far as roleplaying is concerned, are you making the same mistake? Does your sorceror actually have a reason to betray a fellow member of his party and murder him? I would assume you are playing either a Chaotic Evil Sorceror, or else he did something in game to warrent this, such as murder your wife or something. Your PC really doesn't have a motive, so in essence you and the DM would be the one's cheating. I suggest you talk over your issues with him, his behavior, justifiable concerns over any cheating, calmly and clearly. The PCs and DM should give him a clear understanding on your expectations, as well as consider his input and expectations. Hopefully you can come to an understanding and enjoy playing together. Killing his PC and forcing him out of the game will only leave a bitter taste in his mouth. Even if he learns his lesson from your forcable correction, he will resent it. You also allow a precedence into the game of PVP and the worse sort, that aimed at fellow players (as opposed to plot driven pvp in such games like vampire) It also makes him the victim. How would the other players at the table feel when they witness him being killed? Even if they don't like him, his behavior and cheating, they may be outraged at his being killed off like this and mistreated when you could have handled it more maturely If he leaves the game or stays, it could effect your gaming group's reputation, word of "don't play with so and so, they kill your characters if he doesn't get his way"
Prom 04-30-08, 01:44 AM	Hay really your thread title should read "I need to kill a character in my game", not player. Prom
CrimsonDeath 04-30-08, 03:08 AM	It's been three days, and the OP hasn't come back. I think we can stop giving him advice now.
Roguewiz 04-30-08, 10:00 AM	Other than the obvious response of "don't do it, talk to him first", the best way to "inadvertently" kill off another player is this; a nicely timed area of effect spell/ability. Also, don't be afraid to play your alignment. ;)
Zuleika 04-30-08, 10:56 AM	Well, Im used to kill player characters during story and also Im a sorcerer. LoL It's quite tasty to see the other player's face when you kill his character... :D Don't get me wrong, I just don't kill for fun, I just kill because there's a reason behind ... *grins*
Son of Khoron 05-01-08, 04:19 PM	Help! This guy we invited is ruining our game. He never role plays, he complains and we think he cheats his dice rolls. Equally hes become rather annoying but instead of not asking him to come any more, id like to kill his character. I am a lvl 2 sorcerer and he is a lvl 2 monk. The DM is on my side. What am i to do! Thanks Killing a character for reasons outside of the game solves nothing but creates everything. Because of you not liking him doesnt justify killing a character. He can always roll up a new one and act the same way. If its the player that bothers you, speak with the DM (unless you are the DM) to speak with the player that any gripes he has or you have be settled after the next session. The group is a democratic setting, it affects everyone...if the other players feel like you do and if the player doesnt seem to be cooperative, then have the DM state that he is causing friction among the players and is no longer invited.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-01-08, 07:19 PM	The OP wanted to know how to kill a fellow PC, he didn't ask what you thought of his decision to do so. Do I find what he's doing immature? Yes. Do you? Probably. Does that mean you should go into his thread with comments irrelevant to the topic at hand? Not in the slightest. Nonsense! Who made you posting police? This is a discussion board. We are here to discuss, with (usually) an aim to enhancing one-another's game experience. Of course we should go straight to the *real* issue! May I point out that your own post violates your rule, not addressing the OP's direct question? As for the OP, however, take Scorching Ray at 3rd level and the Sudden Maximize feat, and do 24 points of damage to him as a ranged touch while he sleeps. A third level monk with a con bonus of 2 will have on average 23 hp. If a maximised scorching ray doesn't drop him in the first round, hit him with another scorching ray (you ought to be able to survive one hit). It's a pity you can't CDG with a ranged attack - CDG is an automatic crit.
High Octane 05-01-08, 10:00 PM	It's a pity you can't CDG with a ranged attack - CDG is an automatic crit. Actually you can I think. You have to be in an adjacent square.
pmurray@bigpond.com 05-02-08, 03:23 AM	Actually you can I think. You have to be in an adjacent square. Meh. The rules explicity state "bow or crossbow", not just any ranged weapon or other ranged attack. Pity. Even a non-maximised scorching ray would do 14 points on average, and require a DC 24 fort save or die. The monk, of course, gets a sleeping listen check.
High Octane 05-02-08, 03:46 PM	Meh. The rules explicity state "bow or crossbow", not just any ranged weapon or other ranged attack. Pity. Even a non-maximised scorching ray would do 14 points on average, and require a DC 24 fort save or die. The monk, of course, gets a sleeping listen check. Well in that case.... wait why are we discussing the rules on a really stupid course of action that should never be followed through?
RPJesus 05-02-08, 04:14 PM	I second the trying to resolve the issue better, but if it comes down to combat, he's a second level monk. Just stay 40 feet away and magic missile his ass. :D.
Death1942 05-03-08, 06:53 AM	CdG in his sleep my DM is a pain on CdG...and its all because i am the party rogue/assassin. if you have the DM on your side then try for a CdG or take on some troll (or other deadly thing) and leave the monk to die.
MrCustomer 05-03-08, 08:07 PM	Meh. The rules explicity state "bow or crossbow", not just any ranged weapon or other ranged attack. Pity. Even a non-maximised scorching ray would do 14 points on average, and require a DC 24 fort save or die. The monk, of course, gets a sleeping listen check. Dose him in oil before the Scorching Ray, a dozen flasks in a bucket, it only does 1d3 damage but the whole effect of waking up at 3 in the morning in flames always makes for a "you should have seen his face" kodak moment. Toss in a couple of bags of Caltrops around him too, so when he drops and rolls to put the flames out he rolls over them. Not particularly deadly but funny. Oh and to avoid him waking up early, try casting Sleep on him first so he doesn't wake up on ya until you nail him with the Scorching Ray. Tie a rope on his ankle to a stake in the ground and stand just at the end of it's reach so that when he runs for you he will trip right at your feet, perfect spot to leave a rake.
green_yawgmoth 05-04-08, 06:32 PM	Grow up :P damn, first post gets the right answer. Just tell him "you're ruining our fun, you're an asshat, now get out."
Auspex7 05-05-08, 05:16 PM	you know... my normal response would be to go with the 'grow up' thing. here's the rub: sometimes the 'best' answer isn't the most enjoyable. i don't know what your group's social dynamic is, but my buddies and i are all 28-35. we had a similar situation awhile back with a guy in a V:tM game, and three of us found ourselves arriving at the same conclusion at the same time. kind of went like this: kim (male, btw. i point this out in case he reads this thread. kim... i just wanted to make sure they didnt' think you were a girl, since you have a girl's name. yep. a girl's name.): "i grab clint and hold him down" jason: "i stake clint." me: "i stake him again. in his face." clint: "whhaaaaaaa....?!" the ST just laughed, so we kept right on going. kim: "i was going to stake him in the face. i guess i'll have to shoot him in the leg now." jason: "can vampires ****? if i can, i'm going to **** on him." clint: "what the ****?!" me: "yeah, i'll go with that. i **** on him, too." basically, all this juvenile behavior turned into all of us--clint included--laughing our heads off, after which, we went with the mature discussion thing. ultimately, us understanding each other kind of led us to using humor to soften the situation for clint. instead of us dropping the hammer by saying something like "we need to talk", we made light of the situation, and were able to talk to him in that context. plus, i got to **** on him. sweet. for the record, we kept gaming together after that. whenever people have issues at the table, we bond over it with laughs instead of driving ourselves apart. maybe we're just jack*****es, but it works for us.
High Octane 05-05-08, 07:40 PM	Stuff Loads of stars there. I get the idea. Unfortunately, behavior like that against most players that act like total morons with a serious stupid complex is that they are more likely to respond to that with screaming crying, yelling and possible fist throwing. Wouldn't put it beyond them to unsheath something either. Thats the kind of behavior that loses friends. If you decided to open with "We've decided to take a lesson from you and we will be roleplaying in your style tonight." At least gives him something to consider.
Auspex7 05-05-08, 08:12 PM	objections. i was going to give this a lengthy, and clearly stated response about why i knew that this behavior was the best way to handle this particular situation. after a few minutes of consideration, i've decided against that. here's the thing... what we're really going to wind up talking about here is friendship. that's really the bottom line. if you value a person who happens to be causing a problem in a game, approach the situation from the standpoint of friend first, player second. if you don't value them as a friend first and foremost, there's no reason to put up with them ruining your games.
green_yawgmoth 05-05-08, 11:30 PM	here's the thing... what we're really going to wind up talking about here is friendship. that's really the bottom line. if you value a person who happens to be causing a problem in a game, approach the situation from the standpoint of friend first, player second. if you don't value them as a friend first and foremost, there's no reason to put up with them ruining your games. This is the bottom line of like, every single player/DM problem in the game.
AntiDjinn 05-07-08, 06:54 PM	Help! This guy we invited is ruining our game. He never role plays, he complains and we think he cheats his dice rolls. Equally hes become rather annoying but instead of not asking him to come any more, id like to kill his character. I am a lvl 2 sorcerer and he is a lvl 2 monk. The DM is on my side. What am i to do! Thanks Well, if both you and the DM think this guy has got to go then one of you should grow a pair and tell him that he is no longer welcome. He was invited, so uninvite him. In the future, you might want to put all new players through a trial period to see if your group's style meshes with theirs. If you absolutely need to PK his character to feel closure, and the DM is with you, then here is how you do it: CdG the monk in his sleep, as noted previously in this thread. Then have the DM hit him with a blue bolt of god lightning. Then the vengeful avatar of the DM kills his petitioner on the outer plane so even True Res can't bring him back. As he sits there in stunned silence, jump up on the table and do an endzone dance while proclaiming to his face: "Dude, you cheat at D&D; that is never acceptable, so the DM and I have conspired to gank your character to punish you for this fact. You don't know how to roleplay, which is why I had my character attack yours, for no in-game reason, to punish you as a player. And worst of all, you complain so much that I had to go on the web and explain your faults to the entire world! So get out!" At that moment, this guy will realize that he really has nothing in common with your group. And he will depart. I can almost guarantee it. In fact, don't be between him and the door when you do this. And both sides will be better off. Win-Win.