Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JasonVaHater 10-26-07, 04:03 PM	I am a serial killer and I have killed so many NPC village folk on the parties travels that now the party priest has become suspicious and I will soon be subject to an interrogation by the party leaders about the brutal killing of yet another NPC. In the past have been able to skate through the priests questions under “Discern Lies” and “Zone of Truth” with creative truthful answers but now I think my time is up and party priest has seen past this and will begin asking just yes or no questions. So I am stuck. I need to be able to lie flat out to this priest. She is a 10th level priest who will no doubt cast “Discern Lies” on my character again. Can any of you offer me some advice on how I can counter act this spell? I have the ability to use arcane magic items and that is about it other than it comming down to violence
Mogofeiden 10-26-07, 04:19 PM	Get yourself a scroll of Glibness or offer to be subject to an Atonement and/or Mark of Justice. Be thankful if the priest doesn't cast detect magic/dispel magic before hand. Also... She could just kill you, cast Speak with dead and raise you afterwards if she found you innocent, . Like every villain, it's only a matter of when not if your PC will be found out.
Legdiwena 10-26-07, 04:20 PM	Nondetection, Mind Blank, high will save, turn answer into a vague statement instead of yes/no answers
Prator_The_Golden 10-26-07, 05:52 PM	...Besides the advice given above, I don't know what to tell ya. You appear to have dug your own grave, here...
tharivol266 10-26-07, 06:39 PM	"if you dont leave me alone you will find out your answers." or "leave me alone Jack***" or "shankity shankity shank shank shank"
Dei 10-26-07, 07:55 PM	So... you've been acting as a serial killer in the company of what is evidently a good cleric... Frankly I'm amazed it's taken this long for it to catch up with you. In any campaign I've played in/run the local guard would have hired a wizard to track you down with scyring spells after the first four or five provided there was a pattern. As for actually lying to this cleric, discern lies can be negated by a will save as can zone of truth however if you resist these spells you're only going to further arouse suspicion. Your long term options are either a) Get out while the goings good. Or b) Shank that holy piggy with your giant piggy shanker.
Kady_Small 10-26-07, 09:00 PM	Heh. Well, if it's come to this, you'll be a villain versus the party soon enough; so prepare for it. (You want to talk to the DM about arranging a nice epic battle when they find out who you are. Or else you could turn NPC and have the DM use the character as a villain.) Prepare yourself to defend against other characters when--not if--they discover the truth. You'll lose, of course; you're outnumbered by people of equal level; so you'll want to find a way to run away and become an NPC pain in their butts for the rest of the campaign. Make a new character to join them--I suggest a constable sort of person who's tracking your old PC! Do find a reason not to murder them in their sleep, though. Very unsporting.
Amon_V 10-27-07, 01:27 AM	Okay, it seems like a the PCs are finally gearing up with big guns to fix the problem. That said, there are still means to get away from the situation. You need to find a awesome NPC and pay him a considerable fortune. With your full complete assistance, he is going to Alter Self + Glibness through the interrogation. This puts you heavily in the debt of the NPC; it should survive this interrogation (The NPC doesn't know about the murders, has nothing to do with them, Etc.) There is a way out of this situation, however. Ask that this be held tomorrow. You have one day to acquire a helm of reverse alignment. That night, when the party is standing watch, you are going to HoRA the party cleric. This should 'bring him to his senses'. With the alignment shift, he will be unable to receive spells from his deity, and at this point, you come clean with your actions to him, privately. Together, you two are going to apply the HoRA to the rest of the party, so that you all are on the same page. That said, there is no getting around the fact that you have badly compromised party confidence. You might be able to wriggle through this round of interrogation, but then what? You certainly can't have them dig through areas that are looking for you, and if the chain of murders continues, the PCs will try the interrogation with DISPEL MAGIC as the first in the lineup. You can't evade the PCs forever; even the dupe idea I've suggested is going to be a stopgap measure. The best thing you can do, actually, is to cast modify memory on yourself, and delete all knowledge of the murders from your own mind. It would probably take one casting per murder, unless they were together. You will deliberately fail your saving throw against these effects. One thought--how far are you determined to go with NPC murdering?
Kady_Small 10-27-07, 01:42 AM	Don't mess with the others' alignments--it's possible in-game; but I don't recommend it because it messes up the other players' ideas for their characters.
Krusk 10-27-07, 03:31 AM	Run away, ditch the party, give your character sheet to the DM, and roll up a palidin searching for the serial killer? Expand your murders to one more person? -im assuming if the PC cleric is casting this stuff on you, you guys are ok with inter party conflict. If not ok do not do this. Find a higher level psion and pay him to wipe your memory? Confess befor they ask? maybe he is a cleric of a diety that is big on repentance. Then you can always lie and pretend you are sorry about it.
Sezarious 10-27-07, 04:24 AM	Maybe you could get the other party members on your side. A memory wipe sounds good though.
1 ton ghost 10-27-07, 03:26 PM	Modify Memory. if your interpretation is fuzzy, so is the answer. firstly, if you were careful in your killings, this might not be an issue, but he's wanting to lock horns w/ you so you're past this point. no point in arguing. basically, for problems like this, i go to the source; the cleric. in some places it is unlawful to just read someone's mind or detect thought/truth as it may be construed as a violation of yoru civil liberties. now, you have to determine cleric's align, domains, portfolio and all. sometimes, suspicions alone won't cut it and typically, at least in most world courts, the burden of proof rests w/ the accuser, not the defense. some more direct issues: -remove his holy symbol. alot of spells require it as a focus. as useless as a mage w/out his spell bag. a favored tactic when Sunder/Disarm are in play -remove him altogether, tricky, but might work. be discrete. -orchestrate scenarios that paint you in a much more positive light. make the cleric become indentured to you. play on sympathies, guilt, etc.
bloodtalon 10-27-07, 07:41 PM	talk to your dm for this way when they try to cast the spell say they have no legal right to do so and leave the party and make sure your in a town that is very open minded and does not like people forcing others to tell the truth threw spells or torture. you can agure by casting said spells the other members of the party are taking away your god/gods given right of free choice. once you leave the party track them to every town they go to and kill one of the towns people and try to frame a member of the party. stay out of site the whole time. now they will get a bad reputation. every time they visit a new town some innocent little girl or a kind priest dies. now they will start to find out what is happening and will eventually track back it back to you. then have a all out godd vs evil fight. if some how you win you then say you brought to justice the vile murders who killed all those innocent people. then find a new bunch of adventures and start all over
metalmayhem80110 10-27-07, 10:37 PM	There is an easy way around this. MAKE A SCENE!!! When they say they want to interrogate you, just flip out. Just be like "Look MF, I've been interrogated by you enough! I have answered your questions and it is becoming very petty. You have even casted spells to know that I cannot lie! Shouldn't you be spending your time trying to find the real killer! Stop wasting your time annoying me.... I understood it at first, but this is ridiculous!" Yes, and do this in REAL LIFE!!! Make it look like you really mean it. You might warn the DM ahead of time, so he doesn't think you're really getting angry out of game. Just keep ranting and throwing sarcastic comments out there about how this is ridiculous. The more the better! Then, they won't bug you about it for a long time :D (I did something like this. One of the new players did some investigating and found me at a murder scene. He started asking question and I pulled out the "How long have we been traveling together? You know me!" card... He hasn't bugged me since :D)
Sezarious 10-28-07, 06:42 PM	There is an easy way around this. MAKE A SCENE!!! When they say they want to interrogate you, just flip out. Just be like "Look MF, I've been interrogated by you enough! I have answered your questions and it is becoming very petty. You have even casted spells to know that I cannot lie! Shouldn't you be spending your time trying to find the real killer! Stop wasting your time annoying me.... I understood it at first, but this is ridiculous!" :D) Bravo! I believed you fully and i wish to apologise for thinking you the killer.:)
Man in the Funny Hat 10-29-07, 12:40 AM	The bigger the lie the more readily people will believe it. If they don't then 3' of steel in the giblets can solve almost anything.
Ayra 10-29-07, 08:42 AM	You've been confronted by this cleric for a while now, which basically means that they don't trust you. But since they already questioned you several times, you should just finally say that they either trust you, or you will walk your own path. When you enter a zone of truth, you're made aware of not being able to lie, so you know there's a zone of truth. You can simply walk out of it and answer the question, or question *them* with their apparent paranoia towards you. Granted, playing evil in a good party is practically impossible, because no matter what you'll eventually be caught.
Alter_Boy 10-29-07, 12:30 PM	Say you were possessed by a demon. Or it was a doppelganger. Then lead the party to a dungeon and keep dungeoncrawling until you find a suitable monster.
High Octane 10-29-07, 04:38 PM	Why are you doing that? Seriously why would you make a character that is so obviously counter the alignment of the group?
Swankster 10-29-07, 05:05 PM	Kill the cleric in his sleep. Also kill one of the other pary members. Put their body's together and claim it was a lover's quarrel.
Napoleon_the_Clown 10-30-07, 02:07 AM	For RPing fun and not making your fellow players hate you: See if your DM is willing to make the character an NPC and then make a new character that's hunting him down. I liked the idea the moment I read it, and it wouldn't result in the other players getting ticked off over you killing them all. Rping fun that may get the character killed: Make the truth dance a fine jig and refuse to answer any questions with a simple "Yes" or "No". Get creative in your definitions of words. If needed, you can pass notes between yourself and your DM regarding your character's thoughts (Example: If asked "Yes or no, did you murder those civilians?" you can answer with an honest "No, I didn't murder anyone." if you can manage to justify the killings. It isn't murder if there's justification!) on the question and answer. To pull this off you'd need to be pretty good at BSing, though. It's not really a lie if you happen to not mention it. This isn't too likely to get your character killed, though if your party ends up neck deep in trouble because of it and you do get caught they may be upset with the you IRL. I don't know the people you play with though. For the few minutes of fun: Kill off the characters that you don't think would be willing to let you off fairly easily. If it's the whole party, so be it. How you'd go about this depends on party level and the classes you'd be up against. Something as simple as killing them in their sleep (coup de grace them with the weapon that does the most damage when it crits you can get ahold of) may work, then again it may not. Last option is to come clean and try to get off the hook somehow. Depending on alignments, this may not be possible.
Etarnon 11-10-07, 03:44 PM	At the next session, tell the DM "If you had done your job properly, it wouldn't have come to this point." Have your hired band of mercenary assassins attack upon your signal, and slay the party. Good luck.
Ridureyu 11-10-07, 11:59 PM	There's only one option. Kill them. Kill them all. Whent hey roll up new characters, kill those, too. You can't win at D&D until it's down to just you and the DM. Destroy! Kill! Murder! Viscera! Viscera!
Voran 11-11-07, 03:03 AM	I am a serial killer and I have killed so many NPC village folk on the parties travels that now the party priest has become suspicious and I will soon be subject to an interrogation by the party leaders about the brutal killing of yet another NPC. In the past have been able to skate through the priests questions under “Discern Lies” and “Zone of Truth” with creative truthful answers but now I think my time is up and party priest has seen past this and will begin asking just yes or no questions. So I am stuck. I need to be able to lie flat out to this priest. She is a 10th level priest who will no doubt cast “Discern Lies” on my character again. Can any of you offer me some advice on how I can counter act this spell? I have the ability to use arcane magic items and that is about it other than it comming down to violence Bah, quit being a wuss and man up to your actions. If you didn't want consequences for your actions, you shouldn't have done bad things. If you're in a campaign that allows such, guess what, that means you're free meat too :)
wizarddog 11-11-07, 07:37 PM	Rping fun that may get the character killed: Make the truth dance a fine jig and refuse to answer any questions with a simple "Yes" or "No". Get creative in your definitions of words. If needed, you can pass notes between yourself and your DM regarding your character's thoughts (Example: If asked "Yes or no, did you murder those civilians?" you can answer with an honest "No, I didn't murder anyone." if you can manage to justify the killings. It isn't murder if there's justification!) on the question and answer. To pull this off you'd need to be pretty good at BSing, though. It's not really a lie if you happen to not mention it. This isn't too likely to get your character killed, though if your party ends up neck deep in trouble because of it and you do get caught they may be upset with the you IRL. I don't know the people you play with though. Is your character a sociopath? He might not see the killings as "murder" and if asked if he murdered them he says no(Truth). If he is ask if he killed them then he will have to yes (Truth). Now they have to ask why you say-"I didn't like the way they were looking at me/us (Truth)" Now if they start asking "Did you enjoy it...?" :P
Delfedd 11-12-07, 12:50 AM	If I where you, I would definately talk to your DM beforehand and whatnot, then make sure he's not manacled, and when they ask, just say all creepylike "Yes I killed them. And it wasn't just me. It was him too. He allowed me to do it. The evidence was there, if you really wished to stop me you would have simply killed me." Cue the getaway.
kelvinaw273 11-12-07, 09:31 AM	Why do I get the distinct feeling that this is one of those "I'm a serial killer, I'm not allowed to get caught! IT'S NOT FAIR!" If you cannot handle the time, don't do the crime. If you have done this just to be annoying, you have made your own bed - now stop trying your hardest to be an a**hat, this is a social game and other players have the right to enjoy it too. If it was to role-play an interesting character then great, but unfortunately, if you are that good a role-player, you won't be following any of the advice here that your character would be unaware of, will you?
knightwriter 11-12-07, 11:03 AM	How about a way to improve your save for when the time comes when discern lies is imminent. Possibly a form of magic to help improve this?
DMParadox 11-19-07, 12:14 PM	Just don't answer any questions - remain silent. No answer means no lie or truth to detect. If they press the issue, reply with "I've already answered that during your previous interrogation" or "my previous response should be good enough" or "I stated before, no (or yes depending on question)". This is not a lie and is the truth. I also like the idea of making a scene. You've gone through their questioning already.
Krusk 11-19-07, 01:01 PM	Just don't answer any questions - remain silent. No answer means no lie or truth to detect. If they press the issue, reply with "I've already answered that during your previous interrogation" or "my previous response should be good enough" or "I stated before, no (or yes depending on question)". This is not a lie and is the truth. I also like the idea of making a scene. You've gone through their questioning already. "Welp, i guess hes guilty then, otherwise he would answer. Hey grogg get that big axe over here and lets lop his head off. Cant have a murderer running loose." How i would see most of my players responding to that one. If you made a scene out of game after laughing at you profusly we would ask you to go home and calm down a bit.
Etarnon 11-19-07, 01:57 PM	Really this just needs: DM: "Hand me your PC. Roll a new one that's not psychotic."
Belkar 11-19-07, 02:59 PM	Clearly, his DM is okay with this. Maybe he allows PC vs. PC - maybe he encourages quirky campaign situations... Either way - the platitudes of these campaign decisions have threads in their own right. ;) As to the posters original question - I'd take the blame route. Do you have any recognizeable trophies from your victims? Most serial killers do... I'd glamer myself to conceal my true looks, then visit a local dive at the next town you stop at and hire a nasty thug to slice up your cleric party member in his sleep. Have the thug carry (or slip him) one of your "trophies." Instruct him to attack the cleric in his sleep. Either he'll be successful (and that's problem solved for you), or (more likely), the party (with you helping!) will kill him - and then discover the "trophy" on his person. With properly placed suggestions and some haughty indignation after that - its not hard at all to set the scene that he was clearly the killer - and has been stalking the party.
Elsydeon 11-19-07, 06:11 PM	I have to go with the poster who suggested make a scene. The best villainous types are the manipulative ones. They last the longest and do the most damage. Throwing a fit in character is good. Throwing a fit out of character is best. Metagaming happens, like it or not. That will stop it, assuming they don't know out of character already. "I've passed every test, answered every question, and you keep doing this. What is your problem? We've saved each other before, and probably will again. Figure it out: I'M ON YOUR SIDE!" OOC: "This is getting ridiculous, seriously. Stop picking on my PC in game, it's ruining it for me. If you do it again without a GOOD reason I'm quitting." If they do you're probably just stuck with become an NPC, die, or kill them all. None of which are great options if you enjoy the character.
Sinis 11-19-07, 06:24 PM	I support a fit in character. If they're repeatedly questioning you, and come up with nothing every time, it's time you started accusing them of killing those people, and talking about how you aren't going to humour them this time. This might cause them to try and ditch you, however. It is definitely not worth having a fit over out of game. If it comes to this, ask them: "Are you sure you aren't metagaming at this point?" The last possibility is that it is time for your character to get caught, and his place in the story as a companion of your company to end and become a corpse or an NPC. I realise that this is probably not what you want, but the best stories always have endings.
Krusk 11-20-07, 12:04 AM	if you threw a fit out of game and threatened to quit, again i have to point out, every group ive been with would laugh for a bit while you ranted. Then we would allow you to leave and not invite you back. If you want these people to remotly enjoy your presence out of game, please do not throw a fit. Not only is it increadibly childish, but its also quite annoying.
RazAl_Dazzle 11-20-07, 12:40 AM	Did the group know what you were doing?(In real life at the table with you.) If so, this sounds like they are Metagame thinking. Do something to win the Characters trust. Then they will HAVE to go along with never knowing.
DMParadox 11-20-07, 10:46 AM	"Welp, i guess hes guilty then, otherwise he would answer. Hey grogg get that big axe over here and lets lop his head off. Cant have a murderer running loose." How i would see most of my players responding to that one. Then their alignment should shift big time because they just killed someone without any solid proof. Is the cleric ready to fall out of favor with their god? Is the paladin ready to fall? If you made a scene out of game after laughing at you profusly we would ask you to go home and calm down a bit. Umm, I'm sorry I didn't spell it out word for word, but I meant in-game. There's a difference between roleplaying and LARPing.
Belkar 11-20-07, 10:48 AM	There's a difference between roleplaying and LARPing. Not for all of us... [sob, sob, sob...] :allalone:
Elsydeon 11-20-07, 11:14 AM	if you threw a fit out of game and threatened to quit, again i have to point out, every group ive been with would laugh for a bit while you ranted. Then we would allow you to leave and not invite you back. If you want these people to remotly enjoy your presence out of game, please do not throw a fit. Not only is it increadibly childish, but its also quite annoying. I have to point out that if we assume they don't know out of game that he is the killer, then your group is full of jerks. The point isn't to actually get mad. It's to trick them so they think you're really innocent (out of character) so they finally start playing that way IC.
Krusk 11-20-07, 08:21 PM	Then their alignment should shift big time because they just killed someone without any solid proof. Is the cleric ready to fall out of favor with their god? Is the paladin ready to fall? Umm, I'm sorry I didn't spell it out word for word, but I meant in-game. There's a difference between roleplaying and LARPing. There is a diffrence between solid proof and 99% sure. If he didnt want to die they could always just confess/prove they were innocent. DND dosnt have real world modern laws. Eh, we dont even really use alignment, so an alignment shift is really not a huge threat. So long as your not a palidin you can write whatever alignment you want, and who cares if your character shifts between CG to CN for a session. So long as its in character and fits how they would act, no big deal. I didnt specifically mean you when i said do not make a scene out of character, ive just seen that idea come up a few times.
Voran 11-21-07, 04:26 PM	There should be a study where one tracks how long it takes a game group to fall apart IC and OOC when one plays a character who, by description, is a serial killer. Personally, I would have smacked the player of the serial killer already. The old "Stop being a douche!" card.
Elsydeon 11-26-07, 05:13 PM	Some groups enjoy the random bad guy in the midst. I've played one, as have two others in our core group. The whole trick is to make it unexpected and to not bone other players. It sounds like the original poster is doing half of that by not attacking or robbing other PC's, just doing his thing to NPCs. Though serial killer isn't my favorite idea for the bad guy in the midst of the heroic types... still, you can't knock him for trying it. The bad guys that cause this bad reputation (about playing one) are really just bad players who think evil means PC killfest. In reality it can work well, and I'd say the games I've been in where they've popped up wouldn't have been as good without them.