Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkSoldier 02-27-05, 10:20 PM	Next week, I will be on my sixth PC. All except the first didn't last more than two games, and the last two died in the same game. I have more PC deaths than the rest of the players combined; the paladin doesn't count because he got true res. The character I've built for next week is a Barbarian 6/Champion of Gwynharwyf 1 with 18 Con and about 86 hp, and I just know that he will die in the first encounter. What can I do to avoid another slaughter? I don't know of any other groups in the area, so "Find another game" is not a suitable answer.
grayeyes008 02-27-05, 10:25 PM	why are your PC keep dieing??????????????? and what have you played???????
bjorntfh 02-27-05, 10:31 PM	Play something more distance oriented and snipe at them. Heck at that level you can play a psion 6.thrallherd 1. Boom, you've got infinite meat shields to protect you! (and they respawn at the start of each day! Well, okay, you just get new ones, but it's the same thing!)
Thorak 02-27-05, 10:48 PM	1> Stop playing gnarly melee guys. If you're in combat, you will get hit. If you get hit, you take damage. If you take damage, you risk dying. 2> Play smart. If it looks like too big a challenge, don't risk it. 3> Stop playing gnarly melee guys. Combat ability and lots of HP do not equal survivability if you keep running into the fray. They mean you last 6 seconds longer than the next guy would have. 4> Seriously, stop playing gnarly melee guys. Either your DM is mercilessly slaughtering them, or you're relying on their HP to keep them alive. Which never works for long. You need tactics to play melee. And tactics don't include "I run at the biggest enemy and hit him till he falls over." Well, they do, but it's almost always not a good idea.
aleph_woodenglenn 02-27-05, 11:14 PM	Is your dm trying to hint at something?? honestly, there is no need to die that often unless you are playing with very poor forsight, or your buddies are REALLY not pulling their weight. It totally shafts roleplaying, dying all the time, doesn't it...It might be nice if you started with a low-level dungeon until you learned what was too big to take on when. Other than that, yeah, a non-meathead meleer is a good option.
Encard 02-27-05, 11:36 PM	Could you give us some more details on the circumstances of your previous deaths? It's somewhat hard to give advice without knowing what's happened so far...
PhaedrusXY 02-27-05, 11:57 PM	Play a cleric archer. Stay out of melee. Heal yourself if you get hurt. Run away if you're losing. Go ask for advice on how to build an optimized Cleric Archer on the Optimization boards (http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=339). Make sure to tell them what books are available, what stat generation (or stats) you'll use, any pet peeves/restrictions your DM has on making characters, etc.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 02-28-05, 12:38 AM	Use psychology... Take a monk. What are the usual source of character death? Damages. Therefore, the best way to avoid dying is to avoid receiving damages. Let's focus on the melee guy's solution. What cause damage? Spells, creatures and traps, mostly. A monk get spell resistance at level 13, giving you a fighting chance against spells (imp evasion also help). A monk got great saves and imp evasion, giving you a fighting chance against most traps. Now, creatures... 3 ways to avoid dying from the opponent's blows: 1): Stratosferic AC. No hit, no damage. Still, some monsters will still hit you and there is still a 5% chance of being hit automatically. 2): Having a gazillion HP (or DR). Obviously, the more HP you have, the more hits you can take (duh). 3): Make the foes hit other targets instead of hitting you. Take the Defensive Throw, Combat Reflexes and Karmic Strike feat. That way, if a creature attack you, you're gonna get a free attack against it. Do you know Pavlov's experiment? The same principle is at work: conditionning. The idea is to teach the monsters that trying to hit you will equate pain (return blows). After getting a few licks, it's gonna learn that attacking other targets is better. So will your DM (most DM being kinda attached to their pet monsters/BBEG...).
Oberoni 02-28-05, 12:53 AM	Don't take a monk. Monks are the class that seem awesome and survivable, until they hit the ground...and then, well, they don't fare so well. Ranged is the way to go, in this case.
DarkSoldier 02-28-05, 03:22 AM	1. Cleric of Pelor. Vow of Non-Violence. I wanted to play a pacifist cleric. Had some friction with the zealous crusading paladin because he would try to redeem the goblins rather than bash their heads in. Fell to a fireball, incinerated by lightning bolt. 2. Another Cleric of Pelor (I wanted to go Radiant Servant). No vows, first cleric's sister, so she could actually hurt things, and have a reason to go with the party. Paladin wanted nothing to do with her and actually tried to force her to leave. Dropped by an evil fighter, who decided to kill her rather than continue fighting the paladin, in her second session. 3. Monk. Killed by a vampire's energy drain in his second session. No time for character development other than the fact that he sounded like Keanu Reeves in Bill & Ted. 4. Swashbuckler. Came this close to dying after her first appearance due to vrock spores. Only survived because the paladin laid on hands. Couldn't see, let alone fight, the invisible stalker that came after the party and was branded a coward for it. Killed by a dragon turtle in her second session. 5. Warlock. Wanted to redeem himself for the circumstances of his birth, but all the party heard (or wanted to hear) was "My powers are evil." Mercilessly slaughtered (-34) by a dire wolf-wildshaped druid in his first encounter, the very same session where the swashbuckler died.
Zed 02-28-05, 04:39 AM	It is your dm that has the trouble to let you stay alive. A dragon turtle is CR 9 and the druid is atleast CR 8. I recommend staying back and shoot. I also recommend a monk 1/sorcerer 6 or wizard 5/Enlighted Fist It is from complete arcane. Then you have both speed and firepower against enemies.
ShadowDragon8685 02-28-05, 07:11 AM	Was the druid a Player Character, by any chance? It sounds to me like your best recourse would be to put out a hit on your DM...
Thorak 02-28-05, 07:25 AM	1. Cleric of Pelor. Vow of Non-Violence. I wanted to play a pacifist cleric. Had some friction with the zealous crusading paladin because he would try to redeem the goblins rather than bash their heads in. Fell to a fireball, incinerated by lightning bolt. Poor luck, I'd say. 2. Another Cleric of Pelor (I wanted to go Radiant Servant). No vows, first cleric's sister, so she could actually hurt things, and have a reason to go with the party. Paladin wanted nothing to do with her and actually tried to force her to leave. Dropped by an evil fighter, who decided to kill her rather than continue fighting the paladin, in her second session. Dropped by an evil fighter = melee, I assume. 3. Monk. Killed by a vampire's energy drain in his second session. No time for character development other than the fact that he sounded like Keanu Reeves in Bill & Ted. Vampire = melee. 4. Swashbuckler. Came this close to dying after her first appearance due to vrock spores. Only survived because the paladin laid on hands. Couldn't see, let alone fight, the invisible stalker that came after the party and was branded a coward for it. Killed by a dragon turtle in her second session. Last I checked, Dragon Turtles didn't have ranged weapons. 5. Warlock. Wanted to redeem himself for the circumstances of his birth, but all the party heard (or wanted to hear) was "My powers are evil." Mercilessly slaughtered (-34) by a dire wolf-wildshaped druid in his first encounter, the very same session where the swashbuckler died. Again, wolves aren't known for killing things from 500 feet away. I repeat; stop getting into melee with things horrendously more powerful than you. Your DM is clearly throwing things at you that exceed your CR; you aren't supposed to be able to stand there and take what they dish out at your level. This is why, if you're playing a melee character, you pull out your backup bow and fight a ranged retreat with the party, hoping to the Gods you weaken it enough before it closes that you can finish it off without dying.
sollmn 02-28-05, 08:32 AM	What is the rest of the party? I would recomend asking for their advice, and then making a character that they don't want to die, and then telling them that it's their job to keep you alive. A lot of D&D is not combat, even the classic hack-n-slash dungeon romp has a lot of non-combat tasks perfect for skills and spells. Build a non-combat skills and spells character that the rest of the party _needs_ and make it their responsibility to keep you alive. All that said, I suspect the player playing the paladin is a jerk, and the DM is one too. We need more information to conclude that, but it is very likely. I know you said that getting a new group is out of the question, but I would still look for one on the side, on the quiet, and leave this one without warning once you do find another group. Check the wanted boards on here and you could find quickly other, not-so-jerky players. Search for Vancouver in thread title. (http://boards1.wizards.com/search.php?searchid=228044)
Falkus 02-28-05, 09:02 AM	I agree with sollmn. The most likely answer now is that your DM and fellow players are pricks, much like de Gaul in the way he treated Canada.
Phrennzy 02-28-05, 09:54 AM	We have a Halfling Rogue with a bow who has been sniping at people for the last 7 levels. He rarely gets hit - he's not frontline - and he does a good deal of damage. Wanna live longer? Go range.
Black Kitten 02-28-05, 10:48 AM	Aside from the range-idea. You could also make a melee-guy that doesn't focus on damage, but on pure defense. Take all feats you can, get good armor, shields. So what that you only hit 1/4 (get yourself a keen scimitar) of the time? You have that awesome AC (I think you can reach AC 30+ at lvl 7) that will keep your character keep his HP. Also get reflex and will boosting things (like Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes).
Capt. Pixel 02-28-05, 08:07 PM	I have a Player in my game that has lost PCs out of proportion with the other players. (two have managed to gain 7 levels) the game is almost constant assaults by Red Dragons. (Breath Weapons and great multiple attack bonuses) He keeps bringing in PCs with modest ACs in the mid to high 'teens'. Everyone else starts in the low-to-mid 20s (high magic campaign) This player puts all his magical enhancement into attack and nothing into defense. As a result, he gets hit on a regular basis. End result? He dies on a regular basis. Part of his problem is poor AC. The other part is lousy tactics. (But, if he had better AC, he could survive his lousy tactics.) (Incidentally, my method of selecting targets is determined by random die roll in most cases - I don't 'pick on' individual Players) He finally developed a PC who spends the entire encounter running and casting defensive spells. Now he's surviving. (But not accomplishing much else.) My suggestion is to review your failures and see if you can determine a pattern. What types of Monsters do you run across, how are your deaths orchestrated (combat, spells, etc), does the encounter fall towards your PC rather than other Player's? If nothing else works then Good Luck!! :cool:
solbergb 02-28-05, 08:24 PM	I think a lot of your problem is that you are now playing characters that are XXX level without having played them from level 1-XXX. So you have no idea how to play a character effectively at whatever level your party is, you make a mistake you wouldn't have made with a year of playtime under your belt and bam, dead. If you are fighting vrocks and whatnot, why isn't there anybody raising you? It seems like you barely get to know the characters before they die. If you are much lower level than the party, that is why you are dying. Pretty much any character less than 2 levels below the average party level will die on a regular basis, as an average combat has a 50/50 chance of being lethal for him. Since there is no way to get experience playing your character without staying alive a while, build a character whose role doesn't put him in harms way all the time and just play carefully until you learn the ropes. A support oriented bard is good for this...you make the whole party better but you aren't the guy the bad guys target every round. Take some spells that stack with the bardsong (haste, rage) some that interfere with enemy tactics (silence, glitterdust, grease) some utility spells (illusion, maybe charm). Give yourself good constitution, charisma and dexterity so your saves and hp will be ok, and you'll go soon enough for your buffs to help out. Also pick a crapload of useful skills nobody else has for out of combat, since your party might do a better job of keeping you alive if you have vital talents that they lack. The problem with the archer suggestion is that archers need to make careful use of positioning and cover to minimize the inevitable counterattack that will be aimed at them when they start ripping into the enemy. Archers are high priority targets for the enemy, and while they won't die as fast as a melee that charges ahead of his party routinely, they do attract a lot of heat. (if you play that bard, make sure you don't stand next to the party wizard or archer)
LosGunD 02-28-05, 08:53 PM	Make a shadowdancer and be REALLY into hiding. If they can't see you they can't hit you, right?? I think not. Moving silently would probably be a good idea too, so that they can't hear you, too. To get the most out of hiding a halfling rogue might be a good idea, and spring attack would allow you to run, attack, run, hide and stay hidden, I believe. Sneak attack would make you even more dangerous, is the most beautiful part of it all. If you have Races of Stone consider the Whisper Gnome instead of Halfling for your race, it's perfect for the situation. It's an intriguing concept. I don't know the particulars of all you would need, but it's mentioned that you could in fact do that in the FAQ so I assume it shouldn't be too hard. If the party is level 7 you could start your Shadowdancer or if they're level 8 you might want to take pause to decide what's more valuable, the level 2 Shadowdancer skills or the level 7 Rogue skills. How you want to make the character is completely up to you though, so have fun. The Whisper Gnome is actually included in the excerpts for Races of Stone, so you don't even need the book if you don't have it already. Good Luck!
Tippy100 02-28-05, 08:55 PM	LosGunD, you definately know about that whole sneaking around and hiding thing, don't you?
DarkSoldier 03-01-05, 01:18 AM	Was the druid a Player Character, by any chance?The other PCs are a VoP Cleric 8, Rogue 8, and Paladin 9. They have all suggested/insisted that I play a tank. I'm juggling four possible new characters: Barbarian/Champion of Gwynharwyf, Ranger/Horizon Walker, Sorceror/Exalted Arcanist, and Rogue/Paladin/Shadowbane Inquisitor. After considering that I've always been killed in melee, I'm learning toward the Ranger/Walker.
allenchan 03-01-05, 01:27 AM	If you -have- to play a meat shield, I'd recommend a quasi-were gold dwarf. dwarf paragon 3/paladin 2/warshaper 4/deepwarden 2/dwarven defender 10. Thats a -sweet- 20 level build. you'll have an astonishing AC (easily upper 30s by level 10) and HP, immunity to crits, fast healing, damage reduction, and tons of other goodies. have cha be your second best stat for divine grace. :P
Vatras 03-01-05, 02:16 AM	Play a straight paladin then, ours was an aasimar, could put out amazing damage with the divine feats and his uber CHA. He was more or less immune to spells and CHA also makes laying on hands more effective. There are some PrCs out there which a paladin can take to good effect, but since ours played him straight to 22 I know a paladin does not need one.
sollmn 03-01-05, 01:15 PM	Since you apparantly cannot count on your so-called "allies", play a staight cleric without VoP. You'll be able to heal yourself and cast magic vestment on your shield and armor, and of course other defensive magics. Because you won't be VoP, you won't be stepping on the cleric's treasure toes. Whatever you do, do NOT pick up any craft feats, as that could just lead to items that your jerk-friends will grab when this character dies too. Be sure to get the travel domain for the freedom ov movement effect to resist grapples, and pck up lots of con and improved toughness. Really, though, I still suspect that the trouble you've been having is that your fellow players are jerks. I am further convinced of this by their "insistence" that you play a tank, even though they already have a perfectly good tank in the Paladin.
weasel fierce 03-01-05, 02:04 PM	Beefing up your charaacter wont help if you still use the same tactics. A decent DM will never give you an easy fight. Hence, you need to think of ways to turn a fight into your advantage. Flaming oil, ambushes, long range attacks, flanking attacks etc Of course, the golden solution is: RUN. If something is obviously too strong, get the hell out of there.
Roboradish 03-01-05, 04:23 PM	Get the Celerity domaine from Complete divine. +10 to run speed!
Shyness 03-01-05, 06:11 PM	I started in a group who couldn't keep a cleric alive. I created a 6th lvl Halfling cleric. I took trickery domain which gave me invisibility spell and I've got a +16 to my hide check. I stay to the back and middle of the group, never get in to melee if possible and use group boosting spells like aid or prayer, summon monster spells, and healing of course. I should be able to stay alive and thus keep the party alive.
obrysii 03-01-05, 06:52 PM	If you MUST be a tank...play a Bullywug and go barbarian. You get +6 con from racial bonuses, and put an 18 in it. By level 7, my Bullywug...not optimized for HP, has 120hp! At least at lower levels, that kind of HP will really help you out.
ShadowDragon8685 03-01-05, 07:43 PM	tell your friends "screw you" and build a Wizard. :) Look on the Character Optimization boards for the best straight Wizard build you can find. Don't bothre with any item crafting feats, go for an MRLS blaster. Or if you DO want to be an item wizard, grow a spine and tell them that if they want what you got, they'd better be ready to pay.
Encard 03-01-05, 07:45 PM	Hmm... Well, if you group is pushing you to play a tank, you might want to consider a large spiked chain tripper or karmic strike type build. There are various things on the CO boards that might serve as inspiration. Those seem like they should have good survivability if done right.
Meyer_William 03-04-05, 04:09 PM	Monk 2 / Sorceror 4 / Enlightened Fist X Feats: Practiced Spellcaster Combat Casting Acetic Mage Monk: Evasion, Combat Reflexes, Stunning Fist Sorceror: Mage Armor, Enlarge Person, Magic Missile, Alter Self. Buy a wand of Shield, and a wand of fist of stone .. You should constantly have mage armor and alter self (lizardfolk (+5 natural armor)) active .. every fight -- spend a charge from your wand of shield Your AC: 10 + CHA (Ascetic Mage) + Dex + 4 (mage armor) + 4 (shield) + 5 (natural armor) = 23+dex+char -- very decent. -- more if you can buy a ring of protection. You do not hit ... almost ever -- but ... you help flank, threaten, and look impressive --