Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TheJackOfSpades 10-11-07, 06:31 PM	The title is not a joke. Any time I hear ANY ideas that sound cool, I instantley want to play them. The thread has come up before, but this is bad. Very bad. We haven't even started the campaign yet, and in the course of 4 or 5 days I have decided what I want to play, and then changed it 3 times. What's a player to do when he wants to play EVERYTHING that sounds interesting? P.S. DMing... Not an option. Same problem. "Okay guys, here's the campaign." two days later "Actually, this sounds WAY better." I think that once I come up with something that is my own idea I will be able to play it, except that I am unable to come up with my own ideas... Creativity is NOT my strong suit. Has anyone else been through this, and what helped you?
Hideous Phidias 10-11-07, 06:54 PM	I have had the same problem for much of my RPG life. I find that there is only a few things to do. First try to fill one of the basic roles. Maybe you wait to see what everyone is playing then make a character that fills the missing role to a tea. The second is find an idea from literature and model a character after it. Or my favorite is find an item you like and make a character modeled around it and using it.
TheJackOfSpades 10-11-07, 07:08 PM	Oy, but in a party of 6 there are no needed roles... /cry And the literature character has the same problem. Two sessions, max, and I read about another character I want to play
ToastedAmphibian 10-11-07, 07:21 PM	Play whatever character you are playing till it dies or the campagine ends, then make a new one. If you want to play more characters, yoru best bet would be to try and find other campagines to join.
Tempest Stormwind 10-11-07, 07:27 PM	I was like this for a while until I came up with a few characters I fell in love with. What I did? Played in a one-shot club. We rotated DMs every so often (Everyone got a chance both in front of and behind the screen) and ran through a huge collection of modules (old, new, and self-written), all designed to be finished in two to four sessions or less, at a rate of one session per week. Different character each time. Sometimes, if they were in the same world, older characters would show up as NPCs, but that's the only legacy they had outside of those few adventures. If this isn't an option, take a character that can change roles daily. Binders, incarnum-users, and Chameleons (Races of Destiny) allow you to pretty much play a different set of mechanics every day if you want (and sometimes more often than that). Also, the power Psychic Reformation lets you rebuild your feats, powers, and skills in 10 minutes if you want to spend the XP to do so. This lets you play multiple 'characters' in the same game.
Hideous Phidias 10-11-07, 07:58 PM	Maybe try the Chameleon prestige class out of Races Of Destiny. Go doppelganger and then right in to it or a changling and then you can really be everything. I would also work in the warshaper class too
Label 10-11-07, 08:25 PM	Play a human Factotum. (Dungeonscape)
navar100 10-12-07, 02:30 AM	I know the feeling. I find it very hard to choose a character class. I find a lot of classes so much fun to play in their own way. The game mechanics of what they can do are fun to play. Warlock invocations, martial adept maneuvers, cleric spellcasting, psionic powers, druid wildshape, fighter feats, wizard spellcasting, unearthed arcana prestige paladin, it's overwhelming. You know you will have fun with whatever game mechanics you use. Therefore, stop thinking about game mechanics. Don't think of a class. Think of a character. Focus on a little history of the character. Create a life for it. What character personality and lifestyle do you want to play. What do you want to do, as opposed to how you go about doing it. Be a geek about it if you have to. Pick a famous character from any book or movie or tv show or comic or even a real person. You can't get exactly like that character but you can get close enough. Don't try to do everything that character did, just focus on the character itself. Once you know what character you want to play, then you can figure out the game mechanics you need. You want to play Dumbledore? Play a wizard who becomes a Loremaster. You want to play Luke Skywalker? Play a psionic warrior. You want to play Dudley Do Right? Play a paladin. You want to be Elvis Presley? Play a bard. You want to be Bruce Lee? Play a monk or swordsage.
danielinthewolvesden 10-12-07, 03:00 PM	Oy, but in a party of 6 there are no needed roles... /cry Wanna bet? Post here with your list of fellow PC's and we'll point out holes. A fun idea- Dragon Shaman with a longspear.
KillerGM 10-12-07, 04:51 PM	Wanna bet? Post here with your list of fellow PC's and we'll point out holes. A fun idea- Dragon Shaman with a longspear. QFT. Seriously, I have the same problem. My problem actually stems from my being a GM all the time - I never actually get to play a character, so when I do, I have all these ideas that I want to play! Whenever we start a new campaign, I end up going through a dozen characters before we sit down. Whenever anyone asks me what I want to play, I always defer to the group - I wait to see what everyone else makes up, and that helps me find my niche. And it doesn't have to be filling in a hole in the party (which, I admit, is hard to do in a 6 person group). It's more like "Ok, we've got a healer, maybe I'll play a more martial Cleric." Or, "Wow, what a great front line... I'll go with an archer!" Or, "Ok, we already have one Sorcerer, so if I make up one, we can both have a wider selection of spells!" Also, no group is hurt by having many front-line fighters after the other "roles" are taken. :D
Dunsel 10-12-07, 05:23 PM	I suggest medication and meditation.;)
Kamin_Majere 10-12-07, 06:32 PM	Play a human Factotum. (Dungeonscape) QFT That or a Changeling Rogue. Either class can do a bit of everything with the right feats and magical items. But as others have said, focus on a concept and bring mechanics in later. Its alot to choose from (especially if you have alot of books) But once you determine a story and a history for your character its alot easier to build it into a class defined entity.
danielinthewolvesden 10-12-07, 08:19 PM	QFT. Seriously, I have the same problem. It's more like "Ok, we've got a healer, maybe I'll play a more martial Cleric." Or, "Wow, what a great front line... I'll go with an archer!" Or, "Ok, we already have one Sorcerer, so if I make up one, we can both have a wider selection of spells!" Yes, or actually being able to play a CoDzilla as the healer role is filled (of course, that makes you the back-up healer, but still....), or a Warmage as the main Arcanist will handle the utility spells, or a beguiler, or.....
TheJackOfSpades 10-12-07, 08:39 PM	All of our players are gestalt. Everyone is a something/fighter. Ranger/fighter Rogue/fighter Wizard/fighter And two haven't made their character yet. The only thing missing is the cleric, and NO ONE will play a cleric. I tried once, didn't even last a full session, so that's not an option. Every other role is filled, and even cleric is made up for, partially, by the ranger. Before everyone shouts "play a paladin" to make up the other half of the missing cleric, the answer is no. That would be as bad as actually playing a cleric. Although I do believe we fixed the problem. We are just going to run a 2 DM campaign, with me being the other DM. Then I can play a lot of NPCs, without changing the whole campaign every week on a whim.
KillerGM 10-12-07, 09:14 PM	Play a Pala... Play a Bard!! :D PS - I love Bards. :) Or something from a splatbook - they usually can't fill a role by themselves, but since you've already got a beefy party... I'd play a Warlock/Fighter. Or a Favored Soul/Fighter. Why don't you like Clerics? I don't understand - you say there's no hole, but there is - the Ranger doesn't have nearly the access to the kewl spells of a Cleric (and no, I'm not talking about a CoDzilla). Is it the theme to go Fighter as the 2nd gestalt class? Or is it just because it rawks so hard as a gestalted class? PS - I don't know if I'm any help, because (as I've said), I have a tough time deciding on a character myself! PPS - 6 players and you're playing gestalt? There shouldn't be any holes (lack of a Cleric), and as a GM I'd destroy you if there were (undead, level drain, ability damage, etc)! :P
TheJackOfSpades 10-12-07, 09:20 PM	1) What does QFT mean??? 2) What is a CoDzilla? 3) We naturally assume Clerics are lame. That's because they are, in our group. No one has been able to run a cleric that isn't a heal-bot. The ones that tried quickly saw that the DM sees a cleric, he makes harder encounters. The DM accepts that we hate clerics, and I believe he mildly hates them himself, as he drops CLW potions in every treasure pile, and other things that make it so we don't need one. Usually we just invest in a wand of CLW. That's all our clerics ever do anyway, is spam CLW... But yeah, we really dis-like them. One of our guys even bought the "clerics are lame" shirt. Seriously, we tell new players that clerics are sweet, and they ditch them themselves after 2 session. We all hate them. So yeah, no-no on the cleric. And I've tried a bard. They are either boring and useless in combat, or too busy hogging the spot-light out of combat.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-12-07, 09:39 PM	1) What does QFT mean??? Quoted For Truth. People will respond to posts in this manner to indicate that they agree with the statement wholeheartedly. 2) What is a CoDzilla? I'm not an expert, but according to what I know, a Cleric or a Druid can be very, very powerful in the right hands. So powerful, in fact, that they can be near juggernauts. Hence the term C(leric)o(r)D(ruid)zilla, indicating the power that they can achieve. 3) We naturally assume Clerics are lame. That's because they are, in our group. No one has been able to run a cleric that isn't a heal-bot. The ones that tried quickly saw that the DM sees a cleric, he makes harder encounters. The DM accepts that we hate clerics, and I believe he mildly hates them himself, as he drops CLW potions in every treasure pile, and other things that make it so we don't need one. Usually we just invest in a wand of CLW. That's all our clerics ever do anyway, is spam CLW... But yeah, we really dis-like them. One of our guys even bought the "clerics are lame" shirt. Seriously, we tell new players that clerics are sweet, and they ditch them themselves after 2 session. We all hate them. So yeah, no-no on the cleric. And I've tried a bard. They are either boring and useless in combat, or too busy hogging the spot-light out of combat. Don't know how to help you there. I can only suggest that you reconsider. Clerics have many more spells than just CLW and some of them can be quite deadly in the right situation. Failing that, a druid may be interesting. You'd be able to do well in combat with Wild Shape, you'd get a variety of good spells, and you'd be all-around pretty tough. Favored Souls may be appealing too, as has been mentioned before. You can spontaneously cast divine spells, you get specialization in your deity's favored weapon and a snazzy set of wings.
Kamin_Majere 10-12-07, 09:45 PM	1) What does QFT mean??? 2) What is a CoDzilla? 3) We naturally assume Clerics are lame. That's because they are, in our group. No one has been able to run a cleric that isn't a heal-bot. The ones that tried quickly saw that the DM sees a cleric, he makes harder encounters. The DM accepts that we hate clerics, and I believe he mildly hates them himself, as he drops CLW potions in every treasure pile, and other things that make it so we don't need one. Usually we just invest in a wand of CLW. That's all our clerics ever do anyway, is spam CLW... But yeah, we really dis-like them. One of our guys even bought the "clerics are lame" shirt. Seriously, we tell new players that clerics are sweet, and they ditch them themselves after 2 session. We all hate them. So yeah, no-no on the cleric. And I've tried a bard. They are either boring and useless in combat, or too busy hogging the spot-light out of combat. 1) Quoted for Truth 2) Cleric or Druid Zilla (as in Godzilla) cleric and druid (along with wizard and artificer) are the strongest classes in the game, pretty much hand down 3) Your natural assumption is quite honestly wrong. Clerics out fight fighters and can cast at the same level as wizards and have domain powers on top of that. You can choose to dislike the cleric, but to consider them lame is ignorance of their actual ability. I dislike playing clerics as well i personally dont like the class, but i dont dismiss their abilities (except in total jest) If your wanting to play "everything" and your playing Gestalt a rogue//factotum or a rogue//cleric or a rogue//wizard. You get to "basically" do anything with skill points and you can get the class features to allow you to work almost everything else (or spells that allow you to make reality yout b****)
MattBlacke 10-13-07, 12:46 AM	I know the feeling. I find it very hard to choose a character class. I find a lot of classes so much fun to play in their own way. The game mechanics of what they can do are fun to play. Warlock invocations, martial adept maneuvers, cleric spellcasting, psionic powers, druid wildshape, fighter feats, wizard spellcasting, unearthed arcana prestige paladin, it's overwhelming. You know you will have fun with whatever game mechanics you use. Therefore, stop thinking about game mechanics. Don't think of a class. Think of a character. Focus on a little history of the character. Create a life for it. What character personality and lifestyle do you want to play. What do you want to do, as opposed to how you go about doing it. Be a geek about it if you have to. Pick a famous character from any book or movie or tv show or comic or even a real person. You can't get exactly like that character but you can get close enough. Don't try to do everything that character did, just focus on the character itself. Once you know what character you want to play, then you can figure out the game mechanics you need. You want to play Dumbledore? Play a wizard who becomes a Loremaster. You want to play Luke Skywalker? Play a psionic warrior. You want to play Dudley Do Right? Play a paladin. You want to be Elvis Presley? Play a bard. You want to be Bruce Lee? Play a monk or swordsage. Or take said character and put them in a slightly different class. I had a grand old time playing Daniel Jackson from Stargate as a Cleric of a magic deity. Helped to have the high Int, though. :p
KillerGM 10-13-07, 12:50 AM	Edit: Nevermind. My suggestion is to play something you normally wouldn't play.
Aryxbez 10-13-07, 01:24 AM	That is the advantage of being a DM. You essentially get to play a bunch of characters as NPCs. Unless of course you don't want them as enemies. Then I guess one should ask one self, "this character X (details of PC) am I truly willing to play this PC from 1st to 20th level? So if you think you could play this character for a long time, then do so, if not, then pick something else. Also look at what you always have wanted to do, what persona you have always wanted to play out. Because in D&D, that is exactly what you get to do. Those two above have helped me I'm sure, and I still play my first character, although getting to play the campaign is the hard part. My PC is Thoran Torunn,a Dwarven Fighter/Barbarian, with a PRC or two that I am going for. I got the idea of him by ripping off of Gimli, from Lord of the Rings. However as I have had him quite a while, his persona and story I have managed to develop, and is likely developing more and more. He may not be the most powerful, however his whole persona and relationship with the party is what makes him worth his stay to me. As I have played other characters instead of Thoran, however when it got right down to it, I had too much of a liking for Thoran to get rid of him.
zzo38computer 10-13-07, 01:51 AM	Just be multiclass with too many classes.
Zousha_Omenohu 10-13-07, 02:19 AM	Or you could just start off with 1/11th of a level in every class! And declare your Dodge on someone!:D
SokenzanMarauder 10-13-07, 03:13 AM	Or you could just start off with 1/11th of a level in every class! And declare your Dodge on someone!:D *cough* Goblins *cough*
danielinthewolvesden 10-13-07, 03:50 AM	All of our players are gestalt. Everyone is a something/fighter. Ranger/fighter Rogue/fighter Wizard/fighter And two haven't made their character yet. The only thing missing is the cleric, and NO ONE will play a cleric. I tried once, didn't even last a full session, so that's not an option. Every other role is filled, and even cleric is made up for, partially, by the ranger. No, play a Fighter/cleric- seriously. Even tougher than a Fighter, and far more survivable than any of those other three. The cleric and the druid are 2 of the 5 most powerful classes in the game (Wiz, Psion & Artificer are the other 3). And a cleric makes any party about twice as tough. If you folks are having problems playing a cleric, then you are not playing them right. Go to the CO boards, and ask for a Gestalt Super cleric. They will give you some build that will make the other classes wet their pants. (They can do that with just straight cleric or druid, give them Gestalt too, and they'll make PunPun* cry.:D ) *Pun Pun is a super broken Munchkin build, of near dieific power. You can find many Pun Puns on the CO boards, but never try to play one in a real game. Ever. ** and wands of CLW?:eek: :rolleyes: Fine until you get to around 5th level or so- at best. With any good DM, he would have many kills on any healer-less party after level 3 or so. I guess if you have Monty Haul as a DM, you can afford to pay for every point of healing.....
zeratulcraft 10-13-07, 04:10 AM	Pun Pun is more than just near deific power, he has nigh-infinite Divine Ranks. And every ability beneficial to him in the game, he can also make new abilities as he sees fit.
Golem1972 10-13-07, 04:22 AM	If you just can't keep to one role / character, try the Factotum / Changeling build. Either Factotum 11 / Chameleon 9 or Factotum 8 / Chameleon 10 / whatever 2 is the usual build. You'd have the ability to be pretty much any other character in game. Gestalt: Factotum 20 // ?? 6 / Chameleon 10. Almost the same thing, but you get your imitate on earlier. You'll get Trapfinding, Sneak attack, Flurry, Arcane casting, Divine casting, Full BAB (sort of), Turn undead, etc...... Try the Changeling race (Eberron Campaign Setting) with pretty much any class (skill monkeys like bards work best though). They have the ability to use Disguise Self at will, so at a moments notice you can become any other humanoid.
FrostWolf 10-13-07, 07:12 AM	I used to have this problem, then I thought, "What if my character ALSO wants to do everything, so they set out to learn it all?" Sure you won't be powerful, but you'll get a taste of it all and find the thing you love the most. Then your NEXT character can be the 1, 2, or 3 class build youve been looking for. (for me, that was the Barbarian sorrcerer) :twocents: :fight!: + :mage: = :inlove:
Realms of Chaos 10-13-07, 09:52 AM	I suggest the old drawing board technique. Simply put, play as the first thing that you think of, but create all of the other characters that pop into your mind as well. I'm not saying that your character should magically transform every session but rather that exploring new concepts and personalities outside of the game can be interesting. Instead of actually using them in the campaign, try battling them against creatures from the MM or against each other. Truth be told, running these extra characters in solitary encounters seems to fit your style perfectly, as you can change each of those character's fighting styles, personalities, and abilities between each encounter. The only character who you would have any obligation to not change would be the one that you are currently using. Furthermore, if you really like a character and no longer wish to change it, you may end up using it as a replacement PC or submitting it to the DM as a possible NPC (but don't do the latter too often or your DM may get annoyed). In fact, the biggest problem you will face is not killing off your character to replace it with a new one. To counter this, just remember that each person has a certain self-preservation instinct that keeps them from doing stupid things that gets them killed (with the exception perhaps of those guys from the Darwin awards). As far as DMing, I have a solution for you there as well. Improvisational DMing. I know that under most circumstances, such a recommendation sets off the warning lights but hear me out. I have actually run such a campaign. When I started, I knew the basic idea of a town with some sort of hivemind that excluded only a small group of people, all but one of which were killed, and one of which was currently hanging from the gallows. As the story progressed however, I improvised. The man hanging from the gallows became an earth-elemental/undead hybrid that protected an apparent Unholy area. The eerie hivemind turned out to have been placed there by Palor to guard against a great evil (which the PCs released) and the old man I had originally made to be the only sane person left turned out to be an imp (explaining why he wasn't part of the hivemind in a different way). Through improvisational DMing, I briefly turned a much lighter campaign into a Horror campaign. There are really five pieces of advice that I can offer you, the indecisive DM, on the matter. 1. Don't use a campaign setting. You may pick and choose individual elements from a campain setting, but the actual use of one limits your ability to include the pressence of the new giant shrine or playable race that you have just invented, as they have no place in that setting. 2. Make it make sense. In the same way that the complete reversal of my improvisational campaign never really defied the logic of that campaign, you shouldn't just insert a giant temple where one was yesterday and expect the PCs to cope with it. Instead, explain that a new shrine has been discovered at the bottom of a fissure, where it wouldn't have been noticed before. In the same way, if you want to insert a new deity or religion, it is better to either start by introducing only one or a couple followers. Suddenly submerging the PCs in a town dedicated to the exclusive worship of that deity will seem pretty weird, seeing as no one in the neighboring town had even mentioned it. 3. Follow a line. In the end of the day, it is the epic accomplishments, vows completed, and enemies vanquished that makes many a player happy (although the rewards for doing these certainly help). Try to follow some basic storyline or logical sequence of events. Try to come up with missions that relate somewhat to this storyline and if you come up with a stand alone mission that is unrelated, file it away for later use as a sidequest. Also, try to keep logic in your calculations. If the City of Nibelugun denies the new edict from the Kingdom of Gilgamesh, the next step is probably war or economic oppression, so unless you have some logical reason why the message can't be related by magic or that it has to be delayed, sending the party on a random mission between the denial of the law and said war/oppression is a bit out of place. 4. No redos. This sounds like it will be your hardest area. Simply put, once something starts or finnishes one way, it will never start or finish another way. If the town faces east, it will never start out facing west. If the town is destroyed, you will not get to introduce the party to Old Arty, the gambling rogue you created specifically for that town. Similarly, once Old Arty is introduced as a rogue, his level in Rogue is not going to be switched to a level in ninja. Furthermore, should players get TPKd, the monsters they fight do not get retroactively weakened. TPKs happen so you can learn from them, not deny their existance. Perhaps most importantly, once your PCs reach level 2, it is a bit late to send them on the level 1 mission you just thought up of. The thing is, once you have introduced something, it is too late to change what it is without suspending disbelief in your players. If you want something different, think about how it can be logically changed into that form or if previous ambiguity may allow changes from your original intention. After an earthquake, certain parts of the town may be rebuilt facing the west. If old arty didn't act particularly chaotic when the party met him and he did nothing to convince the party otherwise, he may indeed be a ninja rather than a rogue. If a change becomes unnattainable due to specific language on your part, write it down so that you can include it later or in another campaign. If your party has just gotten too powerful for the adventure you made, simply make the adventure more difficult. This only works to a point, however. If the party just got access to find the path, the difficulty of the labyrinth is reduced to the heightened difficulty of the creatures within, and only those standing directly between the party and the exit. 5. Not really advice, but rather a perk of being the indicisive DM, is that you can incorporate all character concepts that you think of as NPCs. If you invent new spells, magic items, base classes, prestige classes, monsters, races, feats, or skills, or alternate magic systems, those can also be thrown in (so long as you remain consistent with the rules or can explain the inconsistency; ai: "why wasn't I allowed to take that skill at 1st level?") Good luck.
TheJackOfSpades 10-13-07, 02:07 PM	I used to have this problem, then I thought, "What if my character ALSO wants to do everything, so they set out to learn it all?" Sure you won't be powerful, but you'll get a taste of it all and find the thing you love the most. Then your NEXT character can be the 1, 2, or 3 class build youve been looking for. (for me, that was the Barbarian sorrcerer) :twocents: :fight!: + :mage: = :inlove: I actually really, REALLY like this idea. A lot. Maybe a very curious halfing that is going to try to learn how to do everything untill he finds something he likes. The only problem is that compared to everyone else he is going to be a pushover. But imagine Halfling rogue 1/ fighter 1/ barbarian 1/ cleric 1/ wizard 1/ etc... That would be pretty spifty* *Spifty is a mix of nifty/spiffy, originating from a mix up in speech between friends and me.
Amaria_Eljahn 10-13-07, 07:09 PM	Haven't read all replies. I usually confine myself to making characters and only occasionally get to switch, but I understand the idea. First thought - DM, you said wasn't option. Oh well. Second thought - Skill monkey - Bard/Rogue/Ranger. Jack of All Trades feat from Complete Adventurer. Such things. Third thought - Gestalt/multiclass. Don't forget those wonderful feats that let you stack stuff. Fourth - Changeling. Fifth - multiple campaigns. Sixth - Picking a concept and sticking with it no matter how tempted you are to change. I'm not strong-willed enough for this; even if I love a character I still itch to play someone else. In freeform I stick with a core group but often try out concept characters. If you want to do everything as in your last post, I encourage you to pay a good deal of attention to whatever synergy exists, mechanically and flavorfully, between your classes. A dash of spellcasting can be quite a tasty treat for many classes, especially if backed up with Practiced Spellcaster from Complete Arcane (though I'm not sure if that makes flavorful sense). Unearthed Arcana has variants to do stuff like trading one ability for another, so you might discard completely pointless abilities (what use would a character with 2 STR have for rage?) in return for more useful things to give you a taste of another class (my current druid has a taste of both monk and ranger, for example). I understand I'm referencing several books and I've no idea if you even have access to much beyond the player's handbook, but, well, the main thing I learned from Unearthed Arcana was exactly how versatile D&D is. If you want to play something, make it up and run it by your DM, or vice versa.
archerpwr 10-13-07, 08:39 PM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/881560000 OGL stuff
danielinthewolvesden 10-14-07, 12:04 AM	I tried making a PC with one level in many classes. He sucked. Big Time. :allalone: :noway:
SokenzanMarauder 10-14-07, 12:56 AM	I tried making a PC with one level in many classes. He sucked. Big Time. :allalone: :noway: Aye, one level in many classes is definitely a bad way to go. The saves are generally decent though. :D