Post/Author/DateTime	Post
starchild426 05-28-05, 04:24 PM	Well this is my problem... I am a CN Rogue that has recently befriended a wyrmling green dragon. Most of the other players in my party are LG and I want to turn on them....kill them...and take all their money. Problem is that by myself i could never do it and the dragon is really to young to help. We are all lvls 10-13. I spoke with my DM about the idea and he suggested I consider what sort of Allies I could find. Having a problem thinking up any that will not also kill me. If anyone has any ideas or any questions about the situation please let me know and I will fill in any blanks you have. My party consists of a Drd10/War2, Sor7/war6, Favored soul 10, Wizard 9, and a warrior 11(he is true nuetral so I am not sure if I will able to convert him). let me know what you all think. I wanna be greedy and evil, but I don't wanna die doing it!
PlaidViking 05-28-05, 04:29 PM	when everyone is asleep poison your blade with something to knock a person out with primary damage, then attack the other person on watch (assuming there is one). If noone else is on watch, just sneak around and slit peoples throats while holding your hand over their mouthes. This can be especially potent if you're resting after a rough day.
PrinceAzar 05-28-05, 04:34 PM	I wanna be greedy and evil, but I don't wanna die doing it! That's so funny to hear, of course you have to know going in this some element of risk is involved. That said, you could also set up an ambush with an evil race/creature on your party.
snowlynx 05-28-05, 04:36 PM	Well this is my problem... I am a CN Rogue that has recently befriended a wyrmling green dragon. Most of the other players in my party are LG and I want to turn on them....kill them...and take all their money. Eh, more like neutral evil or chaotic evil....regardless. You are a high level rogue; is coup de grace all that hard to do? If you've been with them long enough, I bet you can find a time where they leave you on watch alone. I don't recommend working against the group like this; it has a tendency of aggravating the players AND disrupting the game.
Super Guy 05-28-05, 04:38 PM	When you're on watch kill your party in their sleep. If you can't be on watch for some reason, wait until the bumbly guy that can't spot or listen worth a dime is on watch, and then do it. However, I don't recommend this. I think it's a good way to make everyone else not only mad at you OOC, but it's going to destroy the campaign and it will end for you as well as them. Everyone will wind up unhappy in the end. Don't just think "Oh, they can make new characters and join me", either, because if I was any of the PCs killed, I'd play a crazy paladin who detects evil like crazy and kills everything evil. Also, your new alignment is CE, not CN, so I'd kill you as soon as I met you. Also, you may die in your attempts. So there are three outcomes: a) You die. b) You kill your party and end the campaign. Everyone is ****** at you. c) You kill your party and everyone is ****** at you, but they make new characters and, well, see 'a'. Which do you think looks best?
Mizik 05-28-05, 04:43 PM	One i realy would not suggest this as a DM my self I hate it when a year or so long plot line is messed up by the party but killing off the party i hate even more. In my opinon unless they are ok with this don't do it.(asking out of game)
Arkidisey 05-28-05, 04:48 PM	hehe yes, evil the way to go! but instead of killing them all, and like its been said all to much, end the campain, become the BBEG!!! you'll have your green dragon friend that could be like a acomplise to you, you'd have to earn more and more of his\her favor to become true friends with them, so i'd suggest you check up on them once in a while, and mabey share some gold\items with them so they'd like you better ;) try to make yourself look like the dragon needs you to go on being rich, this will also need a will check for you to overcome their willpower so that they don't end up making you their patsy :D this is interesting... PM me if you need anything about framing, assasinating or anything else really evil ;)
Zonugal 05-28-05, 04:48 PM	Alright, if you want your party to die but for you to get away from it unnoticed. Next time you are in town, write a letter to the deadliest group of killers around. Use a small child as the currier of the letter. Tell them where and when your group will be at. Have lots of money in the letter also. Then have your party meet the set time and date for the attack. When the attack happens, have your guy do what rogues do, hide. The party can't get mad at a character saving his own life.
PlaidViking 05-28-05, 04:57 PM	Plot twists like that are interesting and somewhat realistic. I'd say make sure players and DM approve (and don't mind making new characters). There was one game where we were a pseudo evil party. It was a variation on Liberation of Geoff mods, we started out working for Geoff, then we join the giants, then the undead army (without becoming undead), then we joined a third party playing both against each other w/ him on top.
ninjarabbit 05-28-05, 05:54 PM	Well since you're the rogue the next time you have to disable a trap, don't and tell the party you did, killing and/or weakening party members in the process. If the trap works well enough you should be able to SA at least one more party member to death while pretending to help.
weasel fierce 05-28-05, 10:01 PM	Is this going to, in any way or form, actually make the game more fun for everyone, or do you just want to screw up the game, end the campaign and inflate your ego a bit ?
starchild426 05-29-05, 02:44 AM	I just wanted to reply and thank everyone for their responses thus far. I have some interesting ideas, but always looking for more. To those that do not like this idea: I have discussed this with my DM and he likes the idea of characters being in charge of their own path and not having a cookie cutter path to follow where everything is wonderful if you complete the challenges he lays out. He likes the idea of suprising realistic events. I clash with the LG characters and even the CG characters on a regualr basis. At one point they have even turned me in for stealing. That said it gives me more motive than just greed for turning against them. Also, my Dm has decided that if I am to succeed that 2 options will occur. 1. There is a vote and a new campaign is started. 2. That we will continue the campaign with my character being the only one of the orginal ones and others start at a lvl close to mine. If #1 were to happen i am given the opportunity to explain what I wish for my character and he becomes an NPC living in the relam. To those that had questions of Alignment: Thinking dark thoughts does not change alignment....acting on it does. So at present moment I am still CN and will be until I act and set in motion plans for the death of my party members. To those that liked the idea and gave me ideas: I appreciate your input. Having never been on the other side of the screen and seen what it takes for a DM to pull together a world I tend to think on very simple terms and this is a complex problem becuase of other NPC involvement. I need this to seem as though it occurs during a fight or a suprise attack so that I do not have one characters sister(spellfire weilder) and his wife(high lvl mage of Waterdeep) chasing me and attempting to kill me. All that being said: Please give me more ideas. The more thoughts I can gather on this the easier it will be to formulate a good plan and feel out all options. And on a side note I understand the other players in my group may be unhappy of this choice, but they will be understand. Or sessions are very R/P involved and after the history of my character and the actions of those around him this is one of two major directions he would go....withthe introduction of the Wyrmling...this choice becomes even more in the right direction.
Draco Strang 05-29-05, 04:12 AM	Is this going to, in any way or form, actually make the game more fun for everyone, or do you just want to screw up the game, end the campaign and inflate your ego a bit ? Precisely the same question I asked myself when I read this. What's the purpose of doing this? You realize that for the most part, D&D is a team game, where everyone is supposed to cooperate? That said, this will probably destroy your game unless you've got the best RPers in the world all sitting around your table.
VerinBlod 05-29-05, 05:56 AM	Precisely the same question I asked myself when I read this. What's the purpose of doing this? You realize that for the most part, D&D is a team game, where everyone is supposed to cooperate? That said, this will probably destroy your game unless you've got the best RPers in the world all sitting around your table. Well like the OP said the DM gave him two options. Start a new campaign afterwards or let the party start new characters. So I quess the answer is to destroy the ongoing campaign. I know I wouldn't allow this as the DM. If he is in such conflict with the other characters it's better to leave the party and make up a chracter that is more fitting with the group as a whole. This is not to say he can not have his sweet revenge but his character will be an NPC in my campaign. And the player could help out by giving suggestions and when the final revenge takes place he could probably play the NPC. But this is just my take on it and how I would do it. To the OP if the DM and players can live with it than go for it. Your best bet would be to set them up against some powerfull enemy. So at least the blame is not directly upon you ;)
Thoronmir 05-29-05, 09:26 AM	I wanna be greedy and evil, but I don't wanna die doing it!So, you're willing to sacrifice the other PCs, but not risk your own? I’m not a big fan of childish behavior, but I’d most likely succumb to my baser instincts on this one. By the time my PCs are in the range of level 10-13, I’ve invested an obscene amount of time and creativity into them. By that level, most of my PCs have at least 20 pages of background information and another 20-30 pages of Campaign Journal. I’m not quite so far gone as to spend much time mourning when a PC dies, but having another player decide to kill my PC just because he wants to play “greedy and Evil” would really perturb me. Just as your DM has suggested two alternatives should you carry out your scheme, I (as a player) would choose between two alternatives of my own. I know the mature reaction would be to simply find another group. What you’re proposing is not the type of D&D I enjoy playing. I’m not indicting your plan or motives … it’s just not my cup of tea. Your DM is not truly complicit in your betrayal. He seems to simply be allowing you to turn on the party ... and perhaps he believes that you cannot succeed and hopes that the party takes you out. Still, he has (at least) tacitly approved a course of conduct that cannot be designed to make the game more fun for everyone. That makes him a poor DM in my estimation. So, I’d like to think I could react as an adult should and walk away. But my likely response … the childish one … would be to return the favor in kind. Assuming you succeed in killing off the other PCs, you will emerge as the most powerful PC in the party (even if the other players make new characters). That makes your PC a viable target for my new PC … who will be even greedier and more Evil than yours. So, yeah, I’m ashamed to admit that I’d most likely surrender to the dark voices and make it my PC’s sole purpose to kill your PC. My PC would be specifically designed to take you out … and thus the “arms race” begins heralding the eventual demise of the campaign. As for advice on how to achieve your nefarious goals, bear in mind that any allies or accomplices you recruit will expect a cut of the loot. So, if you want to keep all the other PCs' stuff for yourself, you might want to focus on a plan you can carry out alone.
Liwmial 05-29-05, 09:49 AM	Your new friend has a corrosive cone of acid gas as his breath weapon. Try getting some vials, probably magical, to holf the acid, and then when your party is sleeping drop it down their throats. The acid will obliterate their vocal cords, making screaming a not so viable option, and with proper placement while they are sleeping, the DM could negate the saving throw ... result? One dead party, one rich rogue. Mind the dragon though - per the Monster Manual - "Green dragons are belligerent and tend to attack without provocation." You sure he's not using you to get some more money for his horde?
Drood 05-29-05, 10:24 AM	That is definitely a chaotic evil thing to do. You've been journeying with your party for a long time (presumably) and if you are still with them that means you have alot of reasons to help THEM rather than some evil dragon. Even if you do kill them, what's the point? You say you want their stuff, but more than likely you won't be playing the campaign anymore after that anyways, so what does it matter? If your character becomes an NPC, that just means you'll have to fight him and that dragon with all that great stuff. If that campaign continues, I guarantee you that the other players will hold a grudge. It's pretty much impossible not to. Also, since you will be evil, your new companions (their new characters)will likely be evil. That means they will be greedy backstabing SOBs too and will see you with all your nice stuff and will likely take you out while YOU sleep. Here's a better idea. You want loot? Tell your party about the dragon and kill it. Dragons have hordes. They also are a danger to neighboring villages/cities/forest/etc so you may get a reward that way as well, not to mention the experience. That way, everyone walks away happy and you look like a hero for pointing it out.
Super Guy 05-29-05, 12:19 PM	I realize it could be realistic. It doesn't mean realistic is fun. It's realistic to have you and your party get captured and actually raped by the sick bastard who captured you. It doesn't mean it belongs in the campaign. Really... your friends aren't going to go: "Man, that was stupid, I liked that character, why'd you do that?" "It was realistic" "Oh, yeah, okay, I forgive you, I'm glad I just wasted hours and hours of my time so that I could be killed for the sake of realism :) :)" Edit: As for more constructive advice that will be realistic and make the party happy, why not actually fail to kill everyone? Then flee and your character will be an NPC. That would have probably happened anyways, according to your two options listed. Only, this way, everyone thinks the storyline is cool instead of fuming over the death of their character.
Encard 05-29-05, 12:33 PM	To those that do not like this idea: I have discussed this with my DM and he likes the idea of characters being in charge of their own path and not having a cookie cutter path to follow where everything is wonderful if you complete the challenges he lays out. He likes the idea of suprising realistic events. I clash with the LG characters and even the CG characters on a regualr basis. At one point they have even turned me in for stealing. That said it gives me more motive than just greed for turning against them. Also, my Dm has decided that if I am to succeed that 2 options will occur. 1. There is a vote and a new campaign is started. 2. That we will continue the campaign with my character being the only one of the orginal ones and others start at a lvl close to mine. If #1 were to happen i am given the opportunity to explain what I wish for my character and he becomes an NPC living in the relam. I think you're missing something here. If the other players decide you're a bad player and they don't like you, you're out - it doesn't matter what your DM says. If they care enough to kick you out, there's a fair chance they'd care enough to kick him out if he tried to stop them too strenuously. Whether you get kicked or not, you'd better expect quite a bit of deserved IRL resentment. Chuckle all you want at the idea of killing their characters, but that's not going to make the game any more fun for you, just as killing their characters is going to make the game less fun for the other players. Here's my suggestion: just don't do it. Life'll be better for everyone that way.
danielinthewolvesden 05-29-05, 01:47 PM	Yes, I agree with weasel fierce, Encard, Super Guy & Draco Strang. This is gamebreaking, immature, and really- NOT "realistic"- if a CN rogue really didn't like those guys that much- he wouldn't have been adventuring with them this long (or even in the 1st place)- and IF he did, then they'd be his freinds. Note the "Band of Brothers" and the "Stockholm Syndrom". You go around with a bunch of dudes, hang out with them constantly, fight with them against many enemies, and save each others lives many times- then you become companions- no matter what you felt like coming in. The most likely thing to happen here is one or more of the other players walking out- maybe all of them. You have a very unwise DM.
Thanatos02 05-29-05, 02:35 PM	This would never fly in a game I ran. As a DM, I spend a lot of time designing a game and story, working on NPCs for players, and customizing the game to work with their concepts. It's hard to be a DM - much harder then it is to be a player. And having one player kill everyone else just to line his pockets with imaginary money used to purchase things he doesn't even get to experiance is a major deal-breaker. I'd kick you out of the game so hard, you'd bounce on your way to the curb. ;) That said, your DM is ok with it. That doesn't mean your fellow players would be. Nothing like going out like a chump because one player decided it would be "kewl" and hardcore for him to kill his friends for no real reason. All you'll end up doing is making them angry. Is that really going to be fun for you? Or, when all is said and done, are you going to be sitting out with all your friends irate, wondering why they're angry? Wouldn't you be if, out of the blue, your DM told you that you're character was dead? I can see it now. DM: Remember how I told you I liked realistic plot twists? Rogue: Yeah, like how I'm gonna kill the party and take their stuff? DM: Yeah, just like that, except when you were sleeping, your evil dragon "friend" ate you. You're dead. Write up a new character. Rogue: WTF? OMFG! You just killed me? I didn't even get a chance to save myself!? DM: No, you were asleep. It bit you while you were asleep, criticalling, you failed your save, and just to make sure, he boiled your corpse in acid before eating you. You're dead, and he took your stuff. Rogue: That's not fair! DM: That's the breaks. I don't think you'd like the scenerio. How much do you think you friends will like it?
RubberDuckie 05-30-05, 07:15 AM	If your PC has been in trouble with his party members, why won't he just leave? Why would slaughtering his party members, a risky business, make him better? Isn't it easier to pick on someone less powerful, since then the odds are in your favour and your PC remains somewhat anonymous? Perhaps the DM could make your PC return as a bad guy later. Don't you understand outright killing your fellow players characters is extremely disruptive? Sure, they could build new PC's and join with you somehow, but it's extremely disappointing for your fellow players.
James Wildspell 05-30-05, 11:55 AM	Well this is my problem... I am a CN Rogue that has recently befriended a wyrmling green dragon. Most of the other players in my party are LG and I want to turn on them....kill them...and take all their money. Problem is that by myself i could never do it and the dragon is really to young to help. We are all lvls 10-13. I spoke with my DM about the idea and he suggested I consider what sort of Allies I could find. Having a problem thinking up any that will not also kill me. If anyone has any ideas or any questions about the situation please let me know and I will fill in any blanks you have. My party consists of a Drd10/War2, Sor7/war6, Favored soul 10, Wizard 9, and a warrior 11(he is true nuetral so I am not sure if I will able to convert him). let me know what you all think. I wanna be greedy and evil, but I don't wanna die doing it! You are CN right? How do you justify making any plan at all? Just attack them or not. The fact that they will probably make short work of you should just add spice to the end of your PCs' miserable existence.
pres_man 05-30-05, 01:02 PM	Personally I would have a hard time playing with any player that pulled some crap like this. By the way as soon as your character seriously considers this they are now CE. Chaotic Neutral, “Free Spirit”: A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn’t strive to protect others’ freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it. Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society’s restrictions and a do-gooder’s zeal. Chaotic Evil, “Destroyer”: A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. The only way I would feel comfortable playing with this type of player (not character, player) is if they had wanted to retire their character and they and the DM decided this would be an interesting way to do it. But it would have to be as someone said, more haphazardly done, not some big detailed plan.
Fortebraccio 05-30-05, 01:16 PM	Since your character sounds like a dishonorable, cowardly, treacherous scum, your best bet is to leave a party you don't belong to anymore...and to take away some valuable mementos. Steal their unattended gear during your watch, and enjoy a life of luxury...this stylish retirement won't disrupt your game or create bad feelings.
d00m_b4b00n 05-30-05, 01:50 PM	Given your DM's response it looks like he's willing to entertain the possibility of you pulling this off. This may **** people off but I have to say I've never been so attached to a character that I didn't enjoy building a new one (then again I play lots of CoC so making new characters every few sessions is routine for me). Your party WILL have made enemies in the course of adventuring. PC's are always stepping on someone's toes. Contact the people/entities you've annoyed in the past and offer to sell out the party. It's best to do this via magic, which your draconic friend can hopefully help you out with. You can use divination magic to find if that Lich had a brother/apprentice/master or if the demon worshipping cult has another cell or even better you can contact any demons you've banished back to the Abyss and enlist their help. Find out if that evil baron you killed has a peniless heir hell bent on revenge. Just tell your DM you are going to go fishing for allies with divination a while before the session and he'll have a great time inventing people for you to find (I know I would). Don't kill them in their sleep! Too much can go wrong with that one. The wrong person awakening at the wrong time wrecks the plan. What you should do is make sure you have a watch late at night. Then go a ways out of the camp and use a slingshot to shoot a thunderstone into the midst of your companions. Everyone will wake up and none of the casters will get the full 8 hours they need to replenish their spells. Once things have calmed down go around smearing contact poison on all the weapon hilts, holy symbols and arrow flights you can find. Replace the contents of all spell component pouches with fluff and pebbles. If they try to rest for a full 8 hours again use a wand of summon monster I from your bed and get an animal type thing to attack. The party will think its the DM messing with them and more often than not just press on at this point without replenshing spells. The next day your allies should have an ambush waiting for your "friends". The party will go into it poorly prepared and should die
Rathik 05-30-05, 02:14 PM	Don't be an arse. People hate it when a party member kills everyone else. Chances are, the rest of the people in your group will want to strangle you. Players invest a lot of time in developing their characters and DMs spend a lot of time putting storylines together. If you kill off everyone, then everyone has wasted their time in coming to the past X number of sessions because you had to be "realistic". Congrats. You get the "I'm a F***ing Moron" Award.
Josheva 05-31-05, 01:27 AM	Here's an idea! Right now i am assuming that your real reason for doing this is not because you think its realism, but because you are not enjoying playing your character anymore. Not only is your group not letting you take advantage of your rogueish (rogueish?) abilities to amass wealth at the expense of NPC's, but they are also turning against you when you do. Most Players go through this at one point or another. Many of the rogues in our party usually spend more time in manacles hanging from a tree for pickpocketing fellow PC's! Anyways, since your DM obviously favours roleplaying, ask him if you can end your characters involvement in your group in such a unique or well thought out way that he'll let you start at the same level as everyone else with the correct amount of gold, as if you hadn't died. If he agrees then heres what i suggest. While the party is in town, find a way to get their money without realizing it. If you have good sleight of hand and them bad spot then pickpocket them, but if you don't then make up some story that they have to give it to you. Maybe volunteer to go buy something, act like you know a beggar in the town then be embarassed when they figure it out, something roleplaying like. You could even loot many bodies of monsters the group kills without them knowing. After you get the money contact a high level wizard in town and offer him all of the money you have to help you deal with the group. Give him all of the money and get him to pose as an employer that wants to hire the group for an adventure. Get them to volunteerly allow the wizard to teleport them to some faraway dungeon or something, but get the wizard to send them to a different plane where they would hopefully be killed. Make sure they know that it was your doing that got them their by sleight of handing a mocking letter onto one of their persons or getting the wizard t cast a sending spell or something to them, then allowing you to communicate with them. Not only does your char get his revenge without any risk to himself, but the party isn't dead and upset with you, a whole new adventure can easily stem from the situation, and your character can easily be worked in! Fun for everyone! If the DM does not let you do the whole new character thing, here are the ways I would get the party killed... 1. Set up a mock adventure where the party has to go rescue some slaves from evil guys, but make sure they are directed to the towns prison instead! Heh people in jail cells, guards being cruel to them, they'll never know the difference until they are halled of to the guillotine by the towns authority! You might wanna get the afore mentioned wizard to help with the process via illusion spells... 2. Next time the party is in a dungeon, tell them you are gonna scout, then sneak up to the entrance and use 50 thunderstones to collapse the enterance! At your level they're not too expensive. 3. Hire a group of dopplegangers to completely ruin the parties reputation. More than one way to skin a cat. 4. Sell all your stuff to buy the means to make a set of blades that can spin at mach 2 then get someone to hire them to investigate whats beyond the *portal*. They'll think the weird red mist is part of the magic. 5. Get the wizard to cast an illusion spell while you're walking in the forest so that they think that he river they are nearing is actually solid ground. Illusion can mask the sound of a babbling brook, and armored warriors have an extremely hard time swimming against a fast moving current at -1 to swin per 5lb of equipment. SA the wizards to death from the shore. (You may have to get the wizard to make the illusion of the party members continue walking so that the others walking behind to not get suspicious. 6. Invite them over for dinner, make friends with them, and right when they don't expect it *BAM*. The old fork in the eye :evillaugh Heh please try for the first thing i suggested, much more fun for everyone. Option six is the funnest though, they never see it coming. Heh I can picture it... DM: Okay after the party rogue offers to pay the tab for dinner, he initiates a conversation about how sorry he is about his thieving ways, and has decided to learn the ways of the paladin. <<Rolls>> Okay Mr.Warrior the rogue leans over and stabs you in the eye with a fork. You now take a -5 competence penalty to all spot rolls. Lol Anyways, having a group die to one person's character is not fun, especially at level 10+. Try to take a roleplaying way out that gives the PC's a chance to live. Your char could even become the BBEG. Being annoying until they kill you for your insolence always works. Lead a cow into their room in an inn (cows will go up stairs, but will never go down) then showing the cows owner where his missing cow is is always fun. Wake the party up to a screaming in their ear. Attack every hay bale you see swearing there was a goblin hiding under it. Anything that will make NPC's go "What's up with them? They're a weird bunch". There's my ideas. Peace out!
madpiper 05-31-05, 08:19 AM	It also sounds like you are going to venture into the path of PrC Assasin. So do what they would do, study. Watch your guys and study them, find what there weaknesses are. Druid has low fort saves, poison sounds prim. Spell casters have low hp and you are a rogue, stab him while asleep. The fun part is, don't get caught. Being a rogue you should know how to set up times and oppertunities to hit your mark. You are right in the sense that you will not be able to do it all at once, but one at a time. For fun, you could suggest to your DM that you want to be come a serial killer or just al a around bad person. For fairness the DM should provide oppertunities for the other players to figure it out so the whole while you were sleeping I own you thing should not be done. I would imagine that so long as your fellow folks have the same oppertunity to find you out as you do to kill them.
Sargon 05-31-05, 11:07 AM	I would think.. That unless you REALLY did want to ruin the game. You could Get rich... not Die.. and not have to Kill the othe PC's .. you could have it all and the gren dragon too.. When on watch... just load all they're most prized items onto a a pack fitted to the green dragon.. Get you a wand of silence or some similar effect.. 1 wait till the party is asleep 2 Cast silence around thier tent 3 Load ALL of thier stuff onto the Green Dragon 4 Arrange to Meet the green dragon X here 'point to map' 5 Green dragon flies way and you make your way to where the Green dragon is.. Or if its big enough you can just ride it. ou probably want to send the Green dragon ahead of you.. the party might come looking for you and a Green dragon is noticble. if your any type of good rouge you have Bluff. So buy some new clothes..a hat of disguise.. if you have the means maybe even a ring of alter self.. change your name and just make your own way to X. never to be seen or heard from again. The party can always get New stuff.. and you havn't done anything that a Rouge wouldn't do anyway.
Quoriil 05-31-05, 11:25 AM	DM: Remember how I told you I liked realistic plot twists? Rogue: Yeah, like how I'm gonna kill the party and take their stuff? DM: Yeah, just like that, except when you were sleeping, your evil dragon "friend" ate you. You're dead. Write up a new character. Rogue: WTF? OMFG! You just killed me? I didn't even get a chance to save myself!? DM: No, you were asleep. It bit you while you were asleep, criticalling, you failed your save, and just to make sure, he boiled your corpse in acid before eating you. You're dead, and he took your stuff. Rogue: That's not fair! DM: That's the breaks. In a fair and just world, this will happen. In a world where the DM says yeah, that's a great idea *evil laugh*, this will happen. In fact the only situation where this wouldn't happen is if your DM is very inexperienced and/or socially 'in your shadow'. If your DM is not your twisted love slave, nor a 12 year old with his first read of the DMG only a week behind him (or a combination of the two :yuck: ), be ready with a new character of your own...
Phrennzy 05-31-05, 12:00 PM	DM: Remember how I told you I liked realistic plot twists? Rogue: Yeah, like how I'm gonna kill the party and take their stuff? DM: Yeah, just like that, except when you were sleeping, your evil dragon "friend" ate you. You're dead. Write up a new character. Rogue: WTF? OMFG! You just killed me? I didn't even get a chance to save myself!? DM: No, you were asleep. It bit you while you were asleep, criticalling, you failed your save, and just to make sure, he boiled your corpse in acid before eating you. You're dead, and he took your stuff. Rogue: That's not fair! DM: That's the breaks. I don't think you'd like the scenerio. How much do you think you friends will like it? Perfect. To the OP: Read Thanatos02's little ditty up there again. That's exactly how the other players will feel - totally screwed. If you want to betray them, stand up like a man and betray them: Join the Dark Side, Heil Hitler, Put on the Emerald Claw outfit - claim that you have joined forces with the Green Dragon, and that they'll never stop your dastardly plans - and then escape. This then allows the DM to use your Rogue as a BBEG. That would be much cooler than killing people in their sleep, right?
danielinthewolvesden 05-31-05, 12:42 PM	. The party can always get New stuff.. and you havn't done anything that a Rouge wouldn't do anyway. Rouges are not Theives. They can be theives, yes, but so can fighters, barbarians, wizards..... A rogue certainly can be even Exalted level of Good.
Callista 05-31-05, 01:01 PM	Yes, indeed. I played a LG Rogue for a while--the campaign was core-only, though, or she would've been a Swashbuckler or a Scout. But then, you're CN. :) That changes things. CN... you'll be wanting to betray people, not kill them, I think, or you'd be CE. Make contact with the party's enemies and offer to spy. Then make arrangements with the DM to turn against them when they face the BBEG! CN does not murder people in their sleep, though. Unless you've been CE all along, in which case, why the heck are they adventuring with you? Don't ruin the story--it's your story, too, and you need them to make it work! Don't attempt to kill them all. If you're the only one left, what sort of story will there be? Right. Now find something else dramatically appropriate that your chaotic-as-heck rogue can do to play the party and its enemies against each other for his own profit... that's typically CN, especially if you can manage it so you're being paid off by both sides! Prediction? Death for your character, of course, like most other adventurers meet. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun before it happens; and at any rate, if you turn against them when you face the BBEG, it'll be at the end of a campaign anyway.
eudas 05-31-05, 02:39 PM	Poison your blade with the nastiest, highest-DC poison you can find. Avoid poisoning yourself while doing so. Wait until you're on guard at night. Let the fire die down so visibility is low. Use UMD to activate a scroll of greater invisibility, along with whatever other buff spells you deem necessary. Potions are good too. Use UMD to activate a scroll of silence 15'. Coup de grace the first person. if the CDG doesn't get 'em, hopefully the poison will. Finish that person off. Repeat the poison/CDG process until all done. Pretty simple recipe really. eudas
LCD2YOU 05-31-05, 03:48 PM	drop out of the game now, without killing the other PCs and go play just with yourself in front of Diablo or some other non-social device.
Aki Warren 06-01-05, 12:08 AM	Wow, you people who are mocking him need to chill out. Not everyone is you, and your campigian is not "standard". In my campigians we usually have two sets of players playing against each other to win. Killing the other players, people switching teams, all that is not only standard, I encourage it. We meet once a week but it's all people talk about during the week. Frankly I find any other game kinda dull. And yeah, what other people have said seems like good advice. Posioning them works quite well. Of course, you could offer to cook dinner and then posion the food. Honestly, who would check the food? Ingested posion seems to be stronger as well. Just bring the food to the man on guard duty and coup-de-grace everyone else. Or tie them up and then do it. Easy as pie. Of course, torture is fun. They did turn you in for stealing.
starchild426 06-01-05, 12:26 AM	Aki Warren....finally you got it...along with a few others. Its a game...play once a week and i enjoy it becuase I can do whatever I want...and so can the other players...as I said before..according to my DM...until I put a plan in motion...I am still CN....after that I will be CE. Also...I have thought of posion, but Druids of this lvl are immune to poisons. I have played with this DM for at least 5 years..probably closer to 7. He is a very good DM and the reason I spoke with him prior to even starting any planning for this was to clear this with him and to find out how he thought it may affect his game. He has laready given me numerous chances to screw that party over. Until now however the work, the risk and the danger were not worth the reward. I still stay with the party becuaseof sub plot lines that require my characters involvement. Also, I think Josheva has a very good point in that my actions cause tremendous friction between party members. I and my character are frustrated that having a rogue that is interested in his own self preservation and personal gain trhough almost any means(even shady ones) conflict with those that BECAUSE OF PLOT LINES i am forced to stay with. also on a side note the dragon is a wyrmling(in game time only been hatched for a lil over 2 months)
Quirriff 06-01-05, 03:56 AM	what's a CN person doing conspiring with a LE dragon, LE does not like CN, or CE, and Dragons want treasure, lots of treasure for themselves, no way would they want a Rogue friend.
Thoronmir 06-01-05, 09:34 AM	Wow, you people who are mocking him need to chill out. Not everyone is you, and your campigian is not "standard". In my campigians we usually have two sets of players playing against each other to win. Killing the other players, people switching teams, all that is not only standard, I encourage it. We meet once a week but it's all people talk about during the week. Frankly I find any other game kinda dull.Do all the players know that the game is PvP before they join? I hope you at least warn the players what type of game you're playing because your campaign is about as far from "standard" as anything I've ever heard in my 25+ years playing D&D. If everyone involved knows what they're signing up for, then of course there's no problem. If I'm told that the game is cutthroat, then I hardly have cause to complain when another PC does mine in. But that does not sound like the situation in the OP’s game.Its a game...play once a week and i enjoy it becuase I can do whatever I want...and so can the other playersOf course you can do what you want. No one has said you can't. We're just pointing out the likely (and jusitifed) reactions of your fellow players ... making sure you realize that your actions will have consequences both in-game and with the players themselves. Personally, I'm still holding out hope that the only reason the DM has tacitly approved your scheme is because he expects the other PCs to own your Rogue.
Callista 06-01-05, 10:28 AM	what's a CN person doing conspiring with a LE dragon, LE does not like CN, or CE, and Dragons want treasure, lots of treasure for themselves, no way would they want a Rogue friend.Oh, the personality is a big factor. An LE person could easily use a CN person for his own ends. My LG paladin had quite a few CN friends; and in an evil game I played, a NE druid had some CG buddies. It really does depend on the personality of the person involved; and while alignment does reflect some of the personality, it certainly isn't all of it. I like running CG characters... and they've really run the gamut, from the gnomish illusionist who loved to play pranks on the party as a morale-booster, to the dwarven rebel who wanted nothing to do with her people and would rather hire herself out as a mercenary, to the motherly halfling rogue (who, admittedly, ended up turning to LG and taking paladin levels... long story!). Heck no--alignment is not a character template! It doesn't have anything to do with whom your character associates with--personality does that. :)
DevilishIdiot 06-01-05, 11:14 AM	Ok I have a suggestion. Tell the other players about your character's intentions, and have them roll up evil characters. Then somehow orchestrate a battle between the two sets of characters, during which your rogue switches teams. If the good side wins, then your rogue is dead (or escaped and an enemy of the party) and you create a good character to join their party. If the evil side wins, the other players continue with their new characters and you keep your rogue. I would not want to play with a <insert chain of derogatory terms here> that just kills an entire party without warning or reason. Give them a chance to play the game that they want to play too.
HypnoticMonk 06-01-05, 12:17 PM	what's a CN person doing conspiring with a LE dragon, LE does not like CN, or CE, and Dragons want treasure, lots of treasure for themselves, no way would they want a Rogue friend. Ummm, I wasn't aware people and creatures in D&D wore badges proclaiming their alignment and professions. I am easily Neutral to Chaotic Good and I have some friends who are Neutral(they vote Republican) tending towards Evil ( they voted for Dubya) [semi-joke, please let's not start the flaming] If they got along, there is no reason that a dragon couldn't have a human as a friend, even if he was a Rogue. Now, if he was a "Thief", in the literal sense, that would change things... if he stole from the dragon. Maybe they would work together for their own mutual good and mutual accumulation of wealth. As far as turning against your party, well, if that is the kind of person you want to show yourself to be to your "friends", then go for it. Just don't be surprised if you A- get attacked in kind some day for no good reason and B- one day find you have less friends.
Super Guy 06-01-05, 03:15 PM	In my campigians we usually have two sets of players playing against each other to win. Killing the other players, people switching teams, all that is not only standard, I encourage it. That's a spectacularly skewed point. Effectively, starchild could've said "I kill people" and someone else said "Killing isn't a good move" and you said "No, starchild is right, I've euthanized a man who wanted to die, so therefore killing people outright is good" Do you see the problem here? Yes, maybe they kill each other in your campaign, and maybe that's fair. But in this campaign the PCs aren't coming into it knowing that they're going to get backstabbed unfairly. It's not fun, like it is in your campaign. Look, starchild, you can kill your friends' PCs if you want. Just don't expect that it's going to be fun for your friends, don't expect that they won't be steamed at you for a while, and don't expect that they won't make a character who specializes in killing you and kills you on sight when they join the party. Personally I just can't see any purpose in this. But, whatever, I can't stop him.
Gedrin 06-01-05, 04:44 PM	If a player, without OOC warning, decided to purposefully screw over the rest of the party, for no better reason than they thought it would be fun, I wouldn't want to play with that player. In fact, my group has kicked players out for this kind of behavior. It's enormously selfish play. You're willing to break everyone's toys, just so you can have a laugh for a moment. Just a moment, because the campaign is over at that point. You're playing on the playground, with your friends, a playground that you all built together, and you think it would be cool to see the whole thing burn down. It doesn't matter that your friends are currently on the slide or swing set. It doesn't matter that they thought you were all playing together. It doesn't matter that tomorrow the playground will be gone and no one is likely to want to build a new one with you. You just want your moment of fun regardless of what the consequences to others, or even yourself, might be.
Dungeon Master 06-01-05, 06:05 PM	I can see some glaring "warning" signs evident in your last post. Aki Warren....finally you got it...along with a few others. If only one or two people "get it" [your idea], there's a distinct possibility that it's a horrible idea. Really, everyone here understands you, but we feel that it is a bad decision on your (and the DM's) part Its a game...play once a week and i enjoy it becuase I can do whatever I want... Anytime I see "I can do whatever I want" offerred as a reason for playing D&D, it is usually accompanied by an immature action on the part of the player. My question is: do you care about the feelings of the other players? Are you even friends with them? Because if you are, you should respect the time they have spent on their characters and put that ahead of your own desire to "do whatever I want". I suggest that you work out a plan with the DM to sell the other PCs into slavery. At this point, your character becomes an NPC and the PCs can attempt to break out of bondage and track down the traitor.
Aki Warren 06-02-05, 01:24 AM	Oh, I thought his friends knew. Yeah, it should be clear from the start that it's PVP. I mean, the players need to work together to win, but stabbing each other to come ahead is common play. But I tell everyone straight up how it works. I would tell your friends what your planning. The way you said that your DM was okay with it made me think everyone knew pvp was possible. They just chose not to. I thought everyone was a carebear. You know, those people on a pvp server who claim ganking is wrong because it happened to them. I thought people were signing up for something and complaining. My bad. Tell everyone. Maybe your Dm secretly hates you and wants you kicked out.
pres_man 06-02-05, 01:59 AM	You might have to remind your DM that he should treat this as any other encounter, that being that it is reasonable that the PCs could overcome it. If you kill everyone in the night without them having a chance to overcome the encounter then that is cheating, as bad as a DM that pulls out an elder black dragon a group of 3rd level characters.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 06-02-05, 09:46 AM	Tell everyone. Maybe your Dm secretly hates you and wants you kicked out. That's what I've been thinking this entire time. It wouldn't surprise me if your DM had your plan backfire, then told you, "Now make a character who can get along with the group, or go find another game. Your choice."
Callista 06-02-05, 10:27 AM	You mean you aren't going to tell your friends that your character plans to kill theirs?! In anything but an outright "PVP is allowed and encouraged" game, that is a bad idea. THey need to be forewarned--even if their characters obviously aren't--so that they can think about strategy, make a new character, or maybe talk you out of the idea...
Super Guy 06-02-05, 03:48 PM	Aki Warren, I should apologize. Yesterday I was a little hotheaded and I may have sounded like a jerk with that "spectacularly skewed" bit. So, today, I was thinking about it and regretted it. Sorry ;)
tiercel 06-02-05, 09:01 PM	I wanna be greedy and evil, but I don't wanna die doing it! I know that you've said it is a "realistic" campaign where you can do whatever you want, and just deal with the consequences, but this is beyond realistic character interaction. This is about how you as a PLAYER interact with the other players of the game. Unless the game explicitly comes with an "evil"/PvP tag, D&D really depends on cooperation between players. The thing that causes player-player tension the most is when characters cannot trust each other (trying to kill each other, to steal from each other, to willfully endanger each other by withholding information or by deliberate incompetence, etc). When characters can't trust each other, then players can't trust each other either, unless everyone knows going in that this is a different kind of D&D game, where your character can't necessarily trust his "friends." If you want to be evil and get away with it, it sounds like you aren't playing the same game as your friends. If this is what you really want, get together with them sometime and talk about playing an "evil" campaign. It can be great fun if everyone wants to get into it, and it will let you play an unconstrained character without cheesing off your (presumably) real-life buddies. Then you can *all* blow off some steam by gleefully being wicked and getting away with it. (Assuming you are skilled at being evil. Stupid villains die just as fast, or even faster, than stupid heroes.) Making the transition to an "evil" campaign by killing your other players' PCs and taking their stuff is a very bad idea. The other players will know that your character is a proven traitor, and will have no reason to make characters that will adventure with yours; no reason, of course, except that your character will be ridiculously wealthy for his power level, and unable to take on a party of assailants when he's not launching a sneak attack against people who foolishly trust him....
Yruc 06-03-05, 05:25 AM	Aki Warren....finally you got it...along with a few others. Its a game...play once a week and i enjoy it becuase I can do whatever I want...and so can the other players...as I said before..according to my DM...until I put a plan in motion...I am still CN....after that I will be CE. To me this just screams immature. I can do this because I want to. Well isn't that nice of you, you selfish *explicative deleted* If the other players know you are wanting to kill them and are okay with it, then by all means have fun. If you are wanting to "surprise" them, then you may find yourself surpised. 1) everyone is oh he killed my character, how sweet, lets all hold hands and make new ones yea!! 2) everyone is like WTF just happened? Dude you didn't just do that!! 3) everyone leaves (this is what I would do if you did something like this out of the blue and the DM went along with it and didn't kick you out for disrupting the party. Its a party, people work TOGETHER They are there to have fun too. If all of a sudden the DM hand you a note that says make a new character yours died because the other players thought it would be cool to see what you would do when that happened and I agreed. Your character falls down and breaks his neck. WOOHOO!! 4) everyone makes characters specifically to destory your character and then the game degrades into you verse them. No matter how you slice it your campaign will be over. Your fellow players (obviously not your friends because who would treat their friends the way you do?) will probably be upset and you may or may not have anyone to play with afterwords. Is the 30 seconds of OMG I GOT YOUS!!!!!!@11111 really worth it? To quote Ben Parker "With great power comes great resposibliity."
Yruc 06-03-05, 05:45 AM	I forgot a comment on the alignment thing. Alignment isn't black-n-white. From SRD sorry for the copy and paste but think it is important. Notice the BOLD sections they stand out to as your "delima" “Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master. People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. Chaotic Neutral, “Free Spirit”: A chaotic neutral character follows his whims. He is an individualist first and last. He values his own liberty but doesn’t strive to protect others’ freedom. He avoids authority, resents restrictions, and challenges traditions. A chaotic neutral character does not intentionally disrupt organizations as part of a campaign of anarchy. To do so, he would have to be motivated either by good (and a desire to liberate others) or evil (and a desire to make those different from himself suffer). A chaotic neutral character may be unpredictable, but his behavior is not totally random. He is not as likely to jump off a bridge as to cross it. Chaotic neutral is the best alignment you can be because it represents true freedom from both society’s restrictions and a do-gooder’s zeal. Chaotic Evil, “Destroyer”: A chaotic evil character does whatever his greed, hatred, and lust for destruction drive him to do. He is hot-tempered, vicious, arbitrarily violent, and unpredictable. If he is simply out for whatever he can get, he is ruthless and brutal. If he is committed to the spread of evil and chaos, he is even worse. Thankfully, his plans are haphazard, and any groups he joins or forms are poorly organized. Typically, chaotic evil people can be made to work together only by force, and their leader lasts only as long as he can thwart attempts to topple or assassinate him. Chaotic evil is sometimes called “demonic” because demons are the epitome of chaotic evil. Chaotic evil is the most dangerous alignment because it represents the destruction not only of beauty and life but also of the order on which beauty and life depend. Clearly CE. Thoughts and whims about killing your groupmates for their money, but then realizing that you will have to kill thim not so honorably since you can't attack them head on. YOu should realize that would be evil, continue with the plan seeking out ways to do said deed is EVIL. Hopefully your character will run into a Paladin who Detects evil on your party and seesyou glowing red and kills you before you have a chance to kill your party members. GO GO GOOD TEAM!
FreeTheSlaves 06-03-05, 10:05 AM	I'd take a look at your friends in particular how much they like the game, their characters and how violent you think they can get. I know on my part I like to enjoy relaxing games & if someone deflated my rugby ball I'd have to punch their head in - to relieve stress and recover my delicate equilibrium. Just check this out with your players first.
High Octane 06-03-05, 10:22 AM	All I have to say is that actions like this WILL **** off your DM AND your fellow players. In fact, actions like this are listed under the top dumbest things players do that make a DM or players life miserable. You cant get away with this saying you are CN. You are evil. You are betraying your comrades. A CN might walk away from a group who is going to die without a second thought, but they dont INSTIGATE the death! Chaotic neutrals for the most part have common decency. They do not kill for pleasure. Thats EVIL. And you WILL be held responsible.
Thoronmir 06-03-05, 10:31 AM	One thing to keep in mind is that the OP wants his PC to become Evil. So, arguments based on his current CN Alignment aren't going to be very persuasive. Starchild knows that excuting his plan will result in his Rogue becoming CE (that's Cowardly Evil). By now, he should also realize that carrying out his plot will likely also result in his Rogue becoming TOCITG (that's "The Only Character In The Game") when the other players walk out. It's possible that Starchild's PC will simply become FDITDATOCKH ("Face Down In The Dirt After The Other Characters Kill Him") or that Starchild, himself, may become FDITDATOPKH (replace "Characters" with "Players"). As I said in my first post in this thread, at the very least, Starchild can count on his Rogue becoming AETFTOPNECR ("An Easy Target For The Other Players' New Evil Characters' Revenge"). However, I fear that this thread has become ABWOAOOT ("A Big Waste Of All Of Our Time").
FreeTheSlaves 06-03-05, 11:10 AM	However, I fear that this thread has become ABWOAOOT ("A Big Waste Of All Of Our Time"). Ha, too right. Short answer is to kill them in their sleep while on watch. Long answer is to have the campaign end with the group splitting, Starchild & the in cahoots DM (who will have lost all credibility & trust) and then there is the real roleplayers.
LCD2YOU 06-03-05, 01:18 PM	Aki Warren....finally you got it...along with a few others. Its a game...play once a week and i enjoy it becuase I can do whatever I want Anyone can. The trick is to see if you can cooperate with others. One's right to swing their fist ends 1 Micron where my nose begins. You are about to cross that line. Still, that is one of the most accurate way to show how selfish, self-serving and immature you appear from posting like this. ...and so can the other players But they are playing GOOD characters. That to me indicates they try to put at least the team, if not others, before themselves. If everyone did exactly what they wanted, no a better description would be if everyone gave into their base desires, many would die. ...as I said before..according to my DM...until I put a plan in motion...I am still CN....after that I will be CE. Also...I have thought of posion, but Druids of this lvl are immune to poisons. That may be true as everyone has "evil thoughts" from time to time. I have played with this DM for at least 5 years... probably closer to 7. He is a very good DM and the reason I spoke with him prior to even starting any planning for this was to clear this with him and to find out how he thought it may affect his game. He has laready given me numerous chances to screw that party over. Earth to Starchild. Everyone has that opportunity. Perhaps the real reason your character seems to be in a position to screw the other party members over so many times was the circles you had them run in. If your character likes going to the seedier parts of town, hanging out with persons of dubious moral fiber, actively looks for gutter trash to hang with, of course you'd have more chances to screw the party over. Here's a thought, perhaps your DM was just showing you what type of individual your character was becoming. They may have been thinking that perhaps ,aybe, just maybe, you or your character would realize what a schmuck they've been and look for a better way to live. Until now however the work, the risk and the danger were not worth the reward. I still stay with the party becuaseof sub plot lines that require my characters involvement. Ah, what sacrifice you've made. Could it be that perhaps your character could have learned the lessons of teamwork, a belief in someone else that requires complete and blind trust, the value of good friends or the like? Of course not. Also, I think Josheva has a very good point in that my actions cause tremendous friction between party members. And you have no intentions to try to grow your character into something besides a sniviling coward and literal back stabbing POS? I and my character are frustrated that having a rogue that is interested in his own self preservation and personal gain trhough almost any means(even shady ones) conflict with those that BECAUSE OF PLOT LINES i am forced to stay with. Such as? As for frustrated rogue, why not have them try something different? Of course not. also on a side note the dragon is a wyrmling(in game time only been hatched for a lil over 2 months) And they fell for it over the people who have probably healed your character, took shots meant for your character, worried about your character? Wow, what a piece of work. One thing I've noticed is people who play characters like you are doing seem to mimic them in real life. Yeah, I played many an evil character, even killed other PCs. But that was known by all BEFORE myself and the other players sat down and created the characters.
Dragon4217 06-03-05, 02:47 PM	One thing I've noticed is people who play characters like you are doing seem to mimic them in real life. Completely true-to-form. My guess is, your DM, should they play a PC under another DM in the group, may have similar tendancies. Of course, I, along with many others, can only hope that your DM is going to screw you over. So, my suggestion: do it. You'll be one of those few people that can manage to lose at D&D by getting the most gold. Case 1) Your DM will screw you, and he and the other players will have a blast, and you will either go home crying, roll up a new character that is probably just like the old one, or, after reading the wonderful insight of the board, you will know what teamwork is about and become a better person. Case 2) Your DM and you will have a blast, the other players will realize that they despise this group, and will leave. This is best for everyone, because then you and your DM might learn something, and the other players don't have to deal with your immaturaty any more. In fact, if I were a DM near you, I'd invite those players to bring their characters to play in my game, tell me as much backstory as they can, and start them up again. That means they aren't dead. In fact, if your DM allows them to create new characters, why wouldn't they create almost duplicate characters...make them all their previous characters "unknown twin" or something, bent on revenge? Aki Warren....finally you got it...along with a few others. I think Warren's second post tells exactly how much he "got it." I played a game where we did not go in thinking it was going to be a PvP...in fact, all evidence led to the contrary. Until the second or third gaming session, when one player, "in character" laid the smack down on the party cleric. One hit, he was unconscious. 1st level, no healing magic (besides the now unconscious cleric). Eventually, (about 2 hours of game play) after a nights rest and a good heal check, he was conscious again, and could heal himself. Until then, his player didn't say a word - he wasn't in game. Then, after the game, the DM gave the ultimatum: no more player killing...no attacking, nothing. That's evil, you're neutral, and I don't allow evil characters. The player started to argue about role-playing his character, etc. Then, the player of the cleric said - very clearly - "You spend the next two hours not playing" Just as note, the "evil" player showed up one more time...ended combat with 2 less hitpoints than his rage gave him...walked up to the above cleric said "I need healing" and fell unconscious. Game over - and neutral (unfriendly, according to the Diplomacy chart), but not evil. Starchild, I'm expecting you to ignore this post with the others, of course, I still suggest you do it, if only to prove how CS (Chaotic Stupid) you (as a player) really are.
Thanatos02 06-03-05, 03:01 PM	Most of the people here are on the same page. We've all had bad experiances with people who can't seem to control their impulse to one-up their friends. It seems to me that killing the rest of the party seems 'realistic' to some, and they think that by doing it, they're playing their character right and they're also outsmarting they're friends. It's true. Maybe you are playing your character right, star. But you're playing the game wrong. Because, while I sometimes hate to say it, there really is kind of an unwritten contract to the game. When you play paintball, you don't shoot your teammates for kicks. When you're playing a video game, you'd be outraged if your own team fragged you. When you play soccer, you don't kick the ball into your own goal. That's because you're playing a team game, and when you sit down to play D&D, you're playing on a team. It's totally different when you're playing a deathmatch in Quake or Unreal Tournament or when you sit down, and every player knows it's dog-eat-dog. That's the game you agreed to play. In this case, you've given no evidence that this is the case in your game. None of the other players sat down with the idea that they'd make an evil character and kill you when you got the shiney thing they wanted. It's a team game, that's the rules. By killing your teammates, you're cheating. You're breaking the rules. You've lied to your friends out of character - a lie of omission. You made a C/N character, not a C/E one. Sure, you can kill your teammates. You can also break the rules or ruin any game you play - but don't pretend you're playing it correctly. You're just being an inconsiderate jerk to the people you play with. And believe me, you're not the first I've explained this to. This happened to me, actually. The party and I were playing a pretty low-powered game, but we were having a good time. We were all of the same power level, we generate our stats on point-buy, and the enemies were built under the same consideration. Unknown to us, the DM had talked with another player before the game with the understanding that they would create a "Plot-PC" who was a half-demon, with magic powers, and a huge leap over us in the stat department. His agenda was to ruin our game. This was supposed to be part of the plot. Anytime he did something fishy, someone would investigate, and the DM would get angry. The player, even more so. Accusations of meta-gaming flew, and we just dropped it and preyed he wouldn't do something really dumb. Of course, at some point, the feces hit the fan, and he decided to turn out all the lights and hit me with a spell with no save. He had Darkvision, I had low-light, so I couldn't see. He accused another PC of attacking me, while chuckling out of game that his plot to kill me and everyone else was perfect and none of us would make it out alive. He told us our actions, what we would and wouldn't be allowed to discover because our senses were impaired, ect. The DM okayed all of it, but the rest of the party made such a commotion and argued with logic certain important points, and we made it out of the situation by the skin of our teeth. The party was livid, but none of us were dead, so we gamed on. A few sessions later, the DM had given the problem player total access to the gaurds and city, which he was supposed to use for plot purposes to direct against us (after we had just saved the city from an advancing army). The problem player killed a minor NPC he knew would become the PC of another player early in the session, (killing him before he even made it to the table, effectivly) causing him to go in another room and play Mario. Instead of putting up with more of this crap, the whole party just boarded a ship and left for another continent all together. This 'meta-gamin' by us so angered the DM and problem player that the DM just quit the game right there, telling us we had done nothing from the begining but foil his carefully laid plans. Despite the fact that from the beginning we had tried to resolve this in and out of game. Ever since that day, the DM has never made another game, and I have never allowed the problem player back in my game. I'll never game with him again - too much trouble.