Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Harmor 09-14-04, 03:53 PM	We started a campaign a couple of months ago. We all agreed that we will have the game be more about "roleplaying" than "hack-n-slash". However, once we got to about 2nd level and started facing things like Ogres, all the "roleplaying" went out of the window. I'm sorry, but to keep my character alive I can't spend skill points on skills that won't keep me alive. I know people say skills like Diplomacy, higher Charisma, and Bluff can help, but in all reality its skills like Listen (so you can wake up), and spot (so you won't be surprised as often) that will keep you alive longer. Even having the knowledge skills can be a boon in combat (hey guys hit it with Silvered weapons!!!). /sigh
jnrhayz 09-14-04, 03:58 PM	The DM determines how much role playing is in his game. Some DM's do give XP for roleplaying. If your DM just gives you combats and no reason to pick up non-combat related skills then it is his fault there is no roleplaying in his game.
Mister Mayhem 09-14-04, 04:02 PM	So play a city campaign, with politics and intrigue. Your ability to wheel and deal, to flatter and to threaten, will suddenly become a lot more important than hearing a twig snap at 50 paces.
LukiLoki 09-14-04, 04:14 PM	I think the implication here is that a combat-optimized character is incompatible with good roleplaying. I don't think this is true, though it's maybe a matter of what is prioritized in the campaign. I mean, you can roleplay fighting an ogre as much as having dinner with the prince. But if the DM runs combat and sounds like a commodities trader, shouting a string of numbers at the players, wihtout rich descriptions and realistic attitudes on the part of the foes, then, yeah, it's lame to say "the players don't roleplay." You have to give players something to care about other than "kill it, take its stuff", if you want them to roleplay. Even in a combat-heavy game.
krichaiushii 09-14-04, 04:49 PM	Players will take ranks in skills that keep them alive. Its up to the DM to provide enough challenges of a certain type to encourage players to pick up the skills, though. Then again, as a DM, I see it as part of my unwritten obligation to (at least occasionally) provide challenges that cater to the abilities of the PCs. If someone is dumping points into a noncombat skill, I will strive to ensure that his efforts are rewarded at least once every other session - if not more. To a lesser extent, I tailor challenges that can become greatly simplified if the PCs use all their abilities/items/or spells. Its amazing how often players forget that PCs are carrying obscure potions or scrolls that can turn a battle. It helps to keep up-to-date copies of the PC character sheets between sessions (this also inadvertantly discourages cheating by addition/removal of items/effects).
ck2001wendt 09-14-04, 05:25 PM	Awards for RP in D&D are much more subjective than awards for combat. It's much harder for the game designers to create a "CR" system for how good your accent was during a session, but there are consistent ways to modify the CR of Orcs. Another thing to remember is that the D20 system is designed to be fair...All players of the same level get the same amount of XP for a combat (if they participated). XP is intrinsically less fair, because some players can get away with not RPing a lick during the session, while others can't last 10 minutes without doing something incredibly in character...unless you assign a "CR" for the session, then handed out the XP averaged out between the RP efforts of all the plaers. Some systems, like Star Wars D20 or the LUG and Decipher Trek systems, deal with this by awarding a fixed amount of XP per session...so everything is equal. I don't really like that way of doing things (it takes much longer to level, for one). The White Wolf Storyteller system is a little more elegant, and gives awards both for "overcoming significant challenges" (which don't have to be combat) and for things like character development. I'd take a look at this and see if you'd want to start assigning "Quest XP" for good Roleplaying, or in having a set "CR" amount of XP each session, which you give or don't to each player based on their performance.
Thelandrach 09-14-04, 05:29 PM	I can roleplay my half-orc fighter as being a ballerina if I want to, and that has absolutely no effect on how effective he is as a fighter. What does it matter what level you are and where you have spent your skill points on roleplaying? Are you confusing roleplaying with non-combat skill use? Those are two wildly different things. You don't even need to have character sheetes to roleplay, just a character concept.
FriendoftheDork 09-14-04, 05:42 PM	if your DM wants to promote roleplaying (as in dialogue, not vivid combat descriptions) he should give more xp for solving encounters without combat, or less kill xp, or both. Quest xp might also be a good idea to take attention away from fighting. XP are in fact rewards, and influences player actions. Next time you face an Ogre, flee or negotiate if you can and see if you get xp from it. If you don't, then point it out to the DM.
Kaminton 09-14-04, 06:39 PM	Putting ranks in social skills gives you non-combat options (ie, RP options) for solving the problem or overcoming obstacles. For example, with a sufficiently high diplomacy bonus, it should be possible to talk with the ogre and come to an agreement, instead of trying to hack it to pieces. To encourage roleplaying, the DM should move away from just giving XP for combat, to giving XP for overcoming obstacles. For example, completing this task (say, stopping a band of brigands from raiding a village) is worth 2000 xp total, to be split between the party members. It shouldn't matter whether the party decides to confront the brigands head-on (resulting in a long round of deadly combat against what may be a very high EL), ambush and otherwise take the brigands apart piecemeal (a series of low EL encounters), or arrive at a diplomatic solution by talking with their leader - the party should get the same amount of xp. Other possible uses for diplomacy and talking here is getting help (whether from the village's wizard or a nearby army garrisson) or arriving at some other compromise (perhaps the brigands can be convinced to move into the town and form a symbiotic relationship - they serve as a militia/army against monsters or other forces, while the town supports them by paying for their salaries and supplies).
MageofMyth 09-14-04, 06:47 PM	I mostly give out experience points for roleplaying. In fact the roleplaying will earn the party about two-thirds of their exp per session, in my game. So it depends on the DM.
Edymnion 09-14-04, 07:00 PM	Agreed, if the game keeps degrading to hack-n-slash, its more the DM's fault than it is the players. A DM that doesn't put in roleplaying oppertunities is worse than the players that won't take advantage of them. If the DM wants you to roleplay, he will give you oppertunities to do so. But, the Players have to be able to see those oppertunities. If there is a choice between kicking the door in and doing something else, then do the other thing. Don't just say "I go into town, buy 3 healing potions, and a masterwork gauntlet.", actually roleplay it out. If you keep that up, and the DM still lets it slide into hack 'n slash, then thats just the kind of DM you've got. Nothing to be done about it really, except find another DM to play under.
ImmortalBlueMage 09-14-04, 11:49 PM	People act like good roleplaying and combat have to be mutually exclusive. I find that properly depicting a character often involves quite a bit of "hack and slasn". By way of stereotypical examples, let's pretend that you're a Dwarf Fighter, who has been born with both a burning hatred of Giants (usually) and a deep love for the proud traditions of combat inherent in your heritage (usually). Now, are you more likely to quietly negotiate with the Ogre who has happened upon your camp in a foul mood, or to simply knock his block off with your Dwarven Thrower? Be that as it may, I think one of the problems is that much of the time players do not realize when certain valuable skills are actually being put to work. It's generally easy for a player to figure out that their Spot or Listen skills have been utilized, even if they didn't make the roll ("Ogre snuck up on me huh? DM must have failed my Listen check"), whereas something more subtle, like Bluff, can be harder to place, even if the player got to make the roll right out in the open ("Okay, so he's letting us go. Did he buy my story or is he just releasing us so he can have his men tail us back to camp?").
FreeTheSlaves 09-15-04, 12:03 AM	Hmmm, the last session just been had a diplomacy check to save the party from dying. Anyhoo, the DMG has whole chapters on rewards and running the game. Any good DM has read the DMG from cover to cover, in particular the part that mentions rewards influencing behaviour whether you realize it or not. Personally I assign CR to obstacles overcome (by whatever means - combat/stealth/magic/persuasion) but this is just me using my experience of what is a good CR value to assign. If in doubt, just use the 50-100xp per level method, occasionally going lower or higher as the situation warrants.
Joe Khol 09-15-04, 07:59 AM	The title of the inital message and it's contents refer to slightly different problems. If a DM isn't giving XP for good roleplay, you shopuld suggest it to him. As for skills; a character doesn't need skills to roleplay, the player does. A totally min/maxed combat monster can be roleplayed just a well rounded diplomat.
FreeTheSlaves 09-15-04, 08:27 AM	As for skills; a character doesn't need skills to roleplay, the player does. A totally min/maxed combat monster can be roleplayed just a well rounded diplomat. Except that he can't, he'll blow the first major diplomacy check required. It would be better role playing if the character had some ranks in social skills or didn't try to play the diplomat without mechanics to support such a concept.
Thorak 09-15-04, 08:44 AM	Except that he can't, he'll blow the first major diplomacy check required. It would be better role playing if the character had some ranks in social skills or didn't try to play the diplomat without mechanics to support such a concept. Except that blowing a major diplomacy check is a perfect opportunity for roleplaying. It's just that his role is that of a thick-witted, coarsely-mannered warrior, and he just insulted the King inadvertently because he's too hot-tempered. Roleplaying isn't doing well in non-combat situations. Nor is it antithetical to combat. Roleplaying is dressing up what rolls and checks you do have in colourful dressing to make it more realistic. You can roleplay a poor skill just as, if not more, easily than you can a high-ranked one.
FreeTheSlaves 09-15-04, 09:20 AM	Joe Khol's syntax was bad (2nd language/sleep deprivation ;) ?). I thought he was saying that a min-maxed monster could be role-played as a diplomat by a diplomatic player even though the character has no aptitude. My bad. I agree with you about character weaknesses, they are just as defining to a character as their strengths.
Steelwill 09-15-04, 02:24 PM	Simply put, the nature of the campaign will determine what skills and abilities characters take. If you are hitting combat all the time, you are right, why take diplomacy or bluff (hey ogre, let me talk you out of beating our butts!?). If you are constatly dealing with the intrigue of the high court of the king, and what you say(or perhaps what is left unsaid) could easily make you powerful or dead, I bet you are gonna pump that Sense Motive, Diplomacy, Bluff, and possibly Intimidate. Your party cleric will likely memorize Zone of Truth instead of Flamestrike, and the Wizard will practice more Divination than Evocation. Its all about the situations your DM gives you. If your DM is actually griping about the lack of roleplay in the game, but keeps throwing not else but combat at you, he needs to be talked to, and straightened out a bit. As for awarding XP for roleplay, the DM's Guide gives several examples of awarding XP, including Story Awards, Ad Hoc XP awards, and then plain old following the XP chart for encounters. Sounds to me like either your DM is doing something incorrect if he's complaining about the lack of roleplay, or if its your complaint, you need to tell him your preference and see if he can throw in more roleplay opportunities. My 2 cents, hope it helps.
Darrett 09-15-04, 02:45 PM	I use Diplomacy and Bluff rolls, but depending on how well the player roleplays when speaking to the NPC, they may get bonuses to the roll. If they don't rollplay at all, and just say "I'm going to talk to him and see if he'll tell me anything more." then they're looking at a penalty to the roll. They might still succeed, but it makes it far more useful to roleplay... especially since a success might get you some Experience.
oldmandm 09-15-04, 02:52 PM	Yes I believe it is up to the DM to "guide" the group to good role playing. Everyone has different personalities so awarding xp's for role play should be done carefully. A charasmatic person can Roleplay a very entertaining encounter with a local grocier, where as a quieter sort would normally sit and wait for something big and obviously ment for them to work with. I give xp's to players who play their "character". What the Stats on their sheet and personalities reflect. Sometimes there's not alot to go on. The xp's are given out for Character play,(playing you PC's stats to the best of your abilities) story advancement (keeping the story moving and not just wandering), Skill use (such as detect traps bluff etc, and not on a per use system either) and of course opponents beaten, (not necessarily killed.) I can generally tell if there in the game or not. Sometimes were all just tired and we don't get big points. Example: one of the players playing a Barbarian, was just taught to read by the paladin in the group (when he leveled up and had some skill points) . Now he reads aloud practiaclly everything (To drive the point of his ability) he see's in amazement of his newfound skill. Reading the menue at the local inn, road signs etc... IT's not all we do, just fun to see a good role play . Another PC just bought his new Heavy warhorse. a quick here's 400gp thing to some. but he's been looking foward to it so I indulged him. I had envelopes with NPC stats inside, and basics outside. color, size, etc. He talked to the horse trader etc, and convinced him to let him take them out for a ride each. done his ride checks, done appraise and handle animal for each one. Some rolls were low so i told him little. Eventually he chose and bought the one he liked. It might not have been the best one in the stables but he liked that one. And all their states were slightly different. He thought it was great and i gave him xp's for playing along. It never took al night and the thers never complained for him hoogging game time. I'd pan from one character scene to another. everyone gets to do as much or as little as they want. The wizard went to his room and read his spell book and wrote in his journal. Downtime in a town doesn't have to be boring. And failing a roll can be just as entertaining as a successful one. I love critical fumbles :D It's a different disaster everytime :cool:
Twisted Puppy 09-15-04, 03:27 PM	One misconception I see in a few posts here is that your roleplaying is dependent on putting points in so-called "non-combat" skills. The skills you select are only a reflection of your character's interests and natural gifts. They do not reflect the personality of the character. Is the Paladin a vocal, rah-rah we can conquer the evil whatsis personality? Does he constantly urge a path of righteousness for his followers, harping on the tenets of his church or deity, and upon victory scold his enemies for their evil acts? Or is he calm, quiet, and lead by example, giving party members who act in a manner he considers inappropriate an admonishing glance which has more weight than a stern reprimand? Roleplaying is playing the personality of your character, not using their skills. What are his/her prejudices? Do they have any quirks (bad luck to walk under a ladder, etc.)? Is there ONE particular word or phrase that is likely to get a negative (or violent) reaction from them? None of those things have anything to do with skill points.
Gedrin 09-15-04, 03:56 PM	In the game I run, there are often RP specific encounters. We had a party last game. Usually, these serve as opportunities to set up future adventures or features of the game world, though occasionally they're just for flavor. Sometimes there is a significant risk or reward available at a particular RP encounter. In those cases, I give the encounter a CR just like I would a monster, based on the risk and reward available. Normally, when an encounter begins in "RP Mode" rather than "Roll Initiative Mode" there is less risk than a combat encounter, so the CR's are often lower (less risk). Sometimes the risk is very high, like when you try to Bluff the captian of a city gate (who has thirty soldiers in shouting distance), so the CR is comparable to a combat encounter. It can be difficult to assign CR's for RP encounters, which may be one reason it's not often done. Some DM's don't give XP for RP. It's a shame, because it is similar to saying "the only thing that develops you as a person is combat". Then again, I've got an RP heavy game. As for skills and RP, I normally use skills to determine how well a particular aproach works. The aproach used is generally up to the player, and how they roleplay the situation. Occasionally, I will ask for a role to advise a player of an unwise aproach. Success is usually determined by a skill roll, with the DC often determined by the approch the player is attempting to use. I no more expect my players to be master diplomats than master swordsmen, so I usually give some leway with the niceties of such things.
annalivvie 09-15-04, 05:06 PM	So, I recently had the same problem that you are having with a game that I am in, here are some things to think about for you and possibly your DM. In this particular game, it's entirely set up in high fantasy, which opens up all sorts of doors to roleplaying your character well. First, dont let the actions of other players change the way that you think your character would react. I was getting frustrated because our resident barbarian almost 11th level now, wants to kill everything he sees. My elf, developed a friendly relationship with him, and continually tries to influence the way he behaves through her wisdom. (She's a druid.) Through roleplaying the character, regardless of XP, he's almost been killed several times, because he didnt listen. And if a character dies, no XP. Through roleplaying your character consistantly, in a similar way, you can show other players your value, and show the DM your value without having to kill everything. Also, talk to your DM. I told my DM how I felt. Combat always yields more experience, but he does give story awards for furthering the story and roleplaying well, albeit much less. However, when we go on solos, while my druid may not get the same XP for combat that the others are getting, she is rewarded in other ways for behaving as she should, in character. Example: She sees the barbarian go after a pack of dire wolves more than 200 feet away, just because he once contracted lycanthropy, in reality, because he wanted the XP. She approaches slowly and stands back, not helping, and in fact trying to help the wolves get away. She did not heal her comrade, because of his behavior until some of the wolves had fled, and the barbarian was almost dead. Several sessions later, on a solo, she went to an old elven tree kingdom, now inhabited by a legendary, minor deity of sorts, called The Wolf Queen. She was allowed to enter the tree and search through the old elven tomes, for help with her mission, just because she tried to help the dire wolves, and prevent the barbarian from killing them. In searching the tomes, she found one that was created for her deceased brother upon reading it, she gained a permanent plus 3 to strength, which allows her to use well a weapon that she could not use without negatives before, and use some of her spells more successfully. She established a relationship with this wolf queen before she even knew her, and without my character knowing there would later be a reward, she was given one that had been planned out since she tried to save the wolves. The magic dissolved, the wolf queen gave her valuable information about destroying an evil artifact of sorts, and all because she did something that prevented her from getting combat XP, but was in character for her. Just talk to your DM about how youre feeling and he may make plans in advance when you do things in character. Play your character the way you feel you should, and eventually, though it's frustrating you will get benefits if your DM is good. And if you dont, and playing your character the right way, isnt enough for you, try to find a new game, with some other like-minded individuals. Good luck.
Dunbar 09-15-04, 05:19 PM	For example, with a sufficiently high diplomacy bonus, it should be possible to talk with the ogre and come to an agreement, instead of trying to hack it to pieces. I have yet to play in a campaign where that is the case. At best, you meet the BBEG and exchange a few words, but eventually it comes down to "roll innitiative." IMX, in most campaigns, social skills are just DM tools. He wants the party to find out about the lost treasure of so-and-so...so he has the bard roll gather information. That kind of thing. If no-one has invested in the skills, the party finds out anyways because otherwise there is no game. I'm not saying this is true of all games. But I suspect there is a greater reward in most games for high ranks in spot, listen, hide, move silent, and search than for the various social skills.
annalivvie 09-15-04, 05:29 PM	This is something I forgot that may make a roleplayer feel even better than the tome that I mentioned, since it made me feel amazing. My character is NG, her husband is NE. All hell is breaking loose is her story with him, which is great. In her solo, she has so much to do that does involve combat that could easily kill her, but with a storyline that is poignant to say the least. His hobgoblins left him, and the drow queen that is now living there. Six hobgoblins came to her, from his army, including one that was sent with her on adventures before to protect her. His wyvern that is probably also evil that was raised by her husband helped her escape from the drow queen is now staying with her. Also, a gray render that has since session one, been around, and thought of her as a child, has come back to stay with her, and protect her, and her Asperi companion that she worked her ass off for in roleplaying, stays with her and with her telepathy breaks the language barriers between all of them. Her asperi had a child which also stays with her. Though in some ways her asperi having a child would seem to make her companion less effective, essentially she has two animal companions and a small army of followers without taking the leadership feat, all out of roleplaying, and trying to save her husband, and staying true to her alignment. The hobgoblin that I mentioned earlier, that had been with her as a guardian before, has told her now, through her asperi that she thinks of her as a sister, and by spending time with her has completely changed her outlook on all her previous actions and wants to be atoned through her. The druid will lose XP, but gains a loyal hobgoblin with character class, a family, which she no longer has because she was the last elf standing in these parts. I worked hard to make my character what she is, and now finally, at level 10, it is paying off in storyline. I hope this encourages you. I over simplified a lot of things, including relationships, but if you want to talk more, you can always ask for more info.
eRaz0r 09-15-04, 05:36 PM	All too true. I'm particularly disappointed in the games where the opponents seem to fall over themselves in their eagerness to leap upon the PCs swords. Why don't some of them run away ? Even animals are smart enough to flee creatures more powerful than themselves unless they're protecting their young. If a creature has mastered even primitive tool use, it should comprehend saving it's own skin. If it's smart enough to have a society, it's smart enough to parley or even just flee. A DM who is not prepared to have a conversation, isn't much of a DM, if you ask me. Now there *will* be plenty of realistic situations where the enemies fight to the death. But I can't stand it when I'm fighting something as a PC and shout out "Surrender, and we will let you live" in their language, only to be ignored by the DM. Not even a response... just blindly leaping on the point of my sword again. <sigh> Oh well.
Stuntman 09-15-04, 05:55 PM	I do not support XP awards for role playing. The reason is that it is very subjective. The player and DM may have different ideas about what an appropriate award for role playing should be. Personally, I find that good role playing is its own reward. When I play a game where everyone is in character and the DM is running a game in such a way that I am totally escaped into the world and my character, I get a high. The value of it is not really measured by XP points, but in the added depth of my character that results from the encounters that creates dilemas for my character. When my character makes a particular decision in any dilema, the decision and the rational for the decision makes the character evolve. The particular decision may take the character into a new direction that may or may not necessarily aligned with my character's background. A character's background just shows how your character got to his current situation. It doesn't necessarily dictate what your character would do in a future situation. As you play, your actions expand your character's history by the decisions he makes. Your character grows in this sense. Your character may make a decision that is uncharacterist of him whether on purpose or by mistake. Either way, all of these events builds your character's depth. You will now have to either live with your mistake or follow through with your new direction. What I see as being a reward for things like this is for the DM to to show how the actions of my character affect his world. If I am unfriendly to an NPC in a meaningful encounter, I expect that to have ramifications, good or bad. Now, I may have lost respect from group X to which the NPC belongs and it may make some things more difficult for me and some things easier. To be simply awarded XP is unsatisfying to me. I'm also not convinced that awarding XP for role playing will exactly cause players to role play. If players simply want XP, they will do things solely to get XP whether it is to talk with an accent or just look around randomly for things to kill. It is not solely up to the DM to make the game involve more role playing. The players have to want it too. If everyone wants to play in a game that involves a lot of role playing, no one would complain about not getting XP for role playing. If no one wants to role play, then I wouldn't bother trying to appease players with RP XP. The best that DM should do is to run a game with opportunities for role playing, fighting, puzzle solving, and others aspects. The players will gravitate to whichever style of play they are comfortable with. As long as everyone has fun, it doesn't matter that you don't use every aspect of D&D. Over time, perhaps some would want to exhance their D&D experience. If so, then the game will evolve over time to be more complete.
Aerunation 09-15-04, 06:45 PM	I usually don't give XP for good roleplaying. I give XP for playing the alignment consistantly and this award is usually low, seldom exceeding 100 points. If a chaotic good barbarian slays a pack of dire wolves with no good reason and the rest of the party tries to stop him because he's risking their lives as well and making the rest of the encounters tougher because the pack of dire wolves maimed them, then I'd give more XP to the characters that tried to stop the nonsence. I'm Annalivvie's DM, and she is correct. My barbarian player kills everything he sees just for experience and treasure and tries to ******** his way into why his character would do this. I understand that he's playing a chaotic barbarian with the lower half of his attributes being 10, 10, 12(which is still average human), but being disruptive to the game for the sake of gaining xp is uncalled for. Killing wild animals for the purpose of slaughter and not food and clothing in an enchanted forest isn't the wisest move anyways.
The Man from Uncle 09-16-04, 05:44 AM	'Personally, I find that good role playing is its own reward.' - Stuntman Spot on. I agree. I love roleplaying, thats what the game is all about. Though i can see that some people might be encouraged to roleplay more with an XP incentive, personally that just seems like the wrong reason to do it. XP is just something that comes along and allows the game to develope in scope, it doesn't really matter where is comes from as long as it comes at the right speed to allow the game to grow. But the point of the game is to roleplay. If you are not playing with that belief at the heart of why you are playing, then faking it to get XP just seems to be a bit deviant. Having said that i do think that the DM should award XP for problem solving as well as hacking and slashing. Our DM will sometimes give us more XP for getting round a fight than actually fighting it. Which is not bad at all considering its often a lot more challenging to sneak past than take them all on.
TheDoomBringer 09-16-04, 09:03 AM	I'm a DM, and I am planning on giving roleplay XP awards. The thing is, you don't have to have skill points in non-essential things (or feats, or whatever). What we want is a good story -- why is your character an adventurer, want are his/her hates and wants, and why? Instead of saying, "I attack the goblin," try spicing it up, say, "I lunge with fury at the goblin!" Have your char speak to the other chars about stuff, anything really, but whatever you do, do it in character.
Master Agnald 09-17-04, 08:22 AM	I find it rather funny to watch players playing characters with low INT score... oh, the half-orc dialogues... and the barbarian illeteracy... priceless...
oldmandm 09-17-04, 09:09 AM	The XP's i give to the players for skill use and Role play is an inticement to use them more in the future. Some Players are great role players, others need work. Not that they don't care to or want to, is just that they need some practice. A fighter in most cases i've seen, is played by someone with less of the role play knack so this gives them the perception/misconseption that a fighter is there for little else than the fighting. The fighter and Barbarian in my campaign are certainly good at what they do but they are definatly not one dimensional. It's a matter of DM style. Neither is wrong. The paople playing should know before the campaign even starts what the style is going to be like, otherwise some players will be left in the cold. High combat low RP will leave less for the bard,and to some extent wizard and other common templates. High RP low combat would be visa versa. generally speaking. For me it's about balance for my particular group. And no two groups are alike believe me. :mymy:
Lincoln Hills 10-06-04, 02:53 PM	Just a couple of weeks ago, I said to my players, "I'm going to start encouraging a story-style campaign over hack and slash. Starting this session, you gain half the normal XP for monsters overcome in combat - except under unusual circumstances - and full XP for any monster, NPC or obstacle you overcome by trickery, diplomacy or stealth." And last week, the group gained 2K from negotiation of a neutrality pact. The difference has been distinct and immediate, and I highly recommend it. Of course, the PCs don't usually gain much in the way of loot this way (except during thefts): so the DM needs to go out of his way to make treasure available through other means (rewards, negotiation settlements, bribes, ransom, etc.)