Ignored in the Character Optimization board--can you help me? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ignored in the Character Optimization board--can you help me? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Seventh Seraph
04-16-04, 01:53 AM So here's the question: How much Concentration and Spellcraft should I have (after modifiers) if I am a sorcerer not planning on going epic?

I've read several threads that say it's a waste to max out those skills for non-epic sorcs, and I'd like to use the extra skill points elsewhere. Thanks for your help! (If I get any help, that is... :( )
Dartanel
04-16-04, 02:22 AM Your concentration should max out at your HP +9. Any less and you risk spell disruption.

Your spellscraft should max out around +23.
primemover003
04-16-04, 02:24 AM Well to some extent that's true... though it has nothing to do with EPIC (oh how I hate the ridiculous levels).

Unless you know you'll be forced into melee range or you're gonna be counter spelling a lot... I always thought you should max out at least concentration.
edgelett
04-16-04, 02:39 AM well it depends on how you want to run your character....

I play a cleric in a game that won't go epic, and I've maxed out my concentration skill because I like to cast while in the middle of hand to hand combat.

my spellcraft however, is pretty low - I'm a 15th level character with a total of 8 for spell craft (that's TOTAL, not just ranks), because I don't counterspell against other clerics....i just fry them back!!
olshanski_home
04-16-04, 11:08 AM What is spellcraft good for?
Identifying magic potions... counterspelling.... miscellaneous stuff.

If you are a typical mobile artillary sorcerer, I'd max concentration and skip spellcraft entirely.
Edymnion
04-16-04, 11:15 AM And you can skip Knowledge (Arcana).
IMO, it shouldn't even be on the Sorcerer skill list in the first place, as they don't specifically study the Arcane like a wizard does.

Max out Concentration.
See if you can trade K(A) for a more useful, Charisma based skill, like Diplomacy, and max that.

Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) can both be skipped entirely with a Sorcerer.
Heron_Marked_Blade
04-16-04, 12:45 PM Originally posted by Dartanel
Your concentration should max out at your HP +9. Any less and you risk spell disruption. HP +9? Do you mean HD +9? I doubt my level 20 Sorcerer can get a +83 Concentration modifier until well into Epic. ;) He can, however, get a +29 at level 20.
PhaedrusXY
04-16-04, 03:55 PM Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade
HP +9? Do you mean HD +9? I doubt my level 20 Sorcerer can get a +83 Concentration modifier until well into Epic. ;) He can, however, get a +29 at level 20. No, I'm sure he meant HP + 9. He could have just said "Max out your Concentration", but I think he wanted to emphasize his point and why he thinks you should max Concentration.
Quenditar
04-16-04, 10:14 PM Originally posted by PhaedrusXY
No, I'm sure he meant HP + 9. He could have just said "Max out your Concentration", but I think he wanted to emphasize his point and why he thinks you should max Concentration.
At anything less than HP+8 in Concentration, your spell could be disrupted by taking damage and rolling low on your Concentration check. You don't need more than this (HP+8+1 on lowest possible roll) because if you take more damage than that you're already dead. ;)
Dartanel
04-16-04, 10:48 PM Darn, forgot the one point of die roll. :embarrass
Anyway, Quenditar is correct. Unless, of course, you're playing a Diehard sorceror. Then the limit is your HP + 18. :)

Or some freakish gestalt sorc/ barbarian/ rage mage/ frenzied beserker where the DM let's you combo spell rage and deathless frenzy. In this case you theoretically need an infinite concentration score to guaruntee success.
Jkol the Butcher
04-17-04, 12:04 AM Spellcraft is nice if you ever want to counter a spell, or cast from a scroll without having to cast read magic every time.
I would recommend buying at least a rank every second level if you plan on engaging in either activity.

Concentration is more iffy for me. A lot of concentration checks can be avoided by using five foot steps or casting on the defensive. If you take the feat that gives +4 in this case, and you cast up to 9th level spells the worst you will need is a 20 with con included. otherwise get a couple spells. Mirror Image or Blur will cut down hits immensely and stoneskin reduces damage significantly. If you don't have any points to spare don't worry that much about concentration.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Seventh Seraph 04-16-04, 01:53 AM	So here's the question: How much Concentration and Spellcraft should I have (after modifiers) if I am a sorcerer not planning on going epic? I've read several threads that say it's a waste to max out those skills for non-epic sorcs, and I'd like to use the extra skill points elsewhere. Thanks for your help! (If I get any help, that is... :( )
Dartanel 04-16-04, 02:22 AM	Your concentration should max out at your HP +9. Any less and you risk spell disruption. Your spellscraft should max out around +23.
primemover003 04-16-04, 02:24 AM	Well to some extent that's true... though it has nothing to do with EPIC (oh how I hate the ridiculous levels). Unless you know you'll be forced into melee range or you're gonna be counter spelling a lot... I always thought you should max out at least concentration.
edgelett 04-16-04, 02:39 AM	well it depends on how you want to run your character.... I play a cleric in a game that won't go epic, and I've maxed out my concentration skill because I like to cast while in the middle of hand to hand combat. my spellcraft however, is pretty low - I'm a 15th level character with a total of 8 for spell craft (that's TOTAL, not just ranks), because I don't counterspell against other clerics....i just fry them back!!
olshanski_home 04-16-04, 11:08 AM	What is spellcraft good for? Identifying magic potions... counterspelling.... miscellaneous stuff. If you are a typical mobile artillary sorcerer, I'd max concentration and skip spellcraft entirely.
Edymnion 04-16-04, 11:15 AM	And you can skip Knowledge (Arcana). IMO, it shouldn't even be on the Sorcerer skill list in the first place, as they don't specifically study the Arcane like a wizard does. Max out Concentration. See if you can trade K(A) for a more useful, Charisma based skill, like Diplomacy, and max that. Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) can both be skipped entirely with a Sorcerer.
Heron_Marked_Blade 04-16-04, 12:45 PM	Originally posted by Dartanel Your concentration should max out at your HP +9. Any less and you risk spell disruption. HP +9? Do you mean HD +9? I doubt my level 20 Sorcerer can get a +83 Concentration modifier until well into Epic. ;) He can, however, get a +29 at level 20.
PhaedrusXY 04-16-04, 03:55 PM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade HP +9? Do you mean HD +9? I doubt my level 20 Sorcerer can get a +83 Concentration modifier until well into Epic. ;) He can, however, get a +29 at level 20. No, I'm sure he meant HP + 9. He could have just said "Max out your Concentration", but I think he wanted to emphasize his point and why he thinks you should max Concentration.
Quenditar 04-16-04, 10:14 PM	Originally posted by PhaedrusXY No, I'm sure he meant HP + 9. He could have just said "Max out your Concentration", but I think he wanted to emphasize his point and why he thinks you should max Concentration. At anything less than HP+8 in Concentration, your spell could be disrupted by taking damage and rolling low on your Concentration check. You don't need more than this (HP+8+1 on lowest possible roll) because if you take more damage than that you're already dead. ;)
Dartanel 04-16-04, 10:48 PM	Darn, forgot the one point of die roll. :embarrass Anyway, Quenditar is correct. Unless, of course, you're playing a Diehard sorceror. Then the limit is your HP + 18. :) Or some freakish gestalt sorc/ barbarian/ rage mage/ frenzied beserker where the DM let's you combo spell rage and deathless frenzy. In this case you theoretically need an infinite concentration score to guaruntee success.
Jkol the Butcher 04-17-04, 12:04 AM	Spellcraft is nice if you ever want to counter a spell, or cast from a scroll without having to cast read magic every time. I would recommend buying at least a rank every second level if you plan on engaging in either activity. Concentration is more iffy for me. A lot of concentration checks can be avoided by using five foot steps or casting on the defensive. If you take the feat that gives +4 in this case, and you cast up to 9th level spells the worst you will need is a 20 with con included. otherwise get a couple spells. Mirror Image or Blur will cut down hits immensely and stoneskin reduces damage significantly. If you don't have any points to spare don't worry that much about concentration.