Post/Author/DateTime	Post
guru7892 06-23-04, 02:40 AM	ok im a ex-pirat and my party is a bunch of gooddy goods. how am i supposed to get around this. im a fighter rouge, who grew up in calimshan (a place that deals with slaves and has a rather established underworld) my father was a rather honorable guy fighting drow, but i dont have the best of relations with him since he seemed to work to much and never excepted my hobby of being a cutpurse, something i took to out of bordum. long story short, my char hates drizzit, he deals with assassins, steals from people and gives to the poor, and can escape from jail. hes an overally CG guy living a CE life, and he likes hats. help, refo "the merchant of good" * wink wink * is like robin hood and we have 3 sherifs of nottingham. short-ish faq- why not do an overhall your char? - my history and such is too deep for that why not ask the players to change chars -good question, but i dont htink they will why do you hate drizzit? - he commits mutany against his people, probablyhates the idea of slaves and fights a little to much like me, and you cant thrust with scimitars. oh and i like his enemies. shouldnt this be on the realms board? - i dont have a problem with the realms only the fact im not LG and everyone else is. you are so @*&^#(*@&# screewd you should (*&^(&*(&^%%$%#$^ and *(@&#^@(#*&@#^ - @&%^#*&@#%* i know you twit ^!^*&^%# do you like mass murdering, char wise - read the top jerry! jerry! jerry! - no no no, none of that here ( and no murry either)
Hathorym 06-23-04, 02:46 AM	While a good group could use this for some excellent role-playing opportunities, more likely than not one of the two following things will occur: 1. You get sick and tired of their goody crap and leave, because you really have NOTHING holding you to travelling with them do you? or 2. They get sick and tired of your non-goody crap and tell you to leave, because they really have NOTHING holding them to travelling with you. To be honest, as a CN, there would have to be a VERY good reason to willingly place yourself in the company of people that annoying. So - what's the reason you'd even bother tolerating thier bloviated life styles? Oh.. and PS... it's spelled Rogue... please.
primemover003 06-23-04, 03:35 PM	I agree with Hathorym... why is your character even associating with the other party members. Your goals and methods are so different, there's no real common ground between you. Just because your character background is exquisitly lavish doesn't mean it's not wrong for party cohesion... It sounds like you're the round peg in a square hole... You may wish to rethink some of the characters motivations. A more CG character type wouldn't be hard to develope from your existing personality.
guru7892 06-23-04, 06:26 PM	well the reason im CN instead of CG is because of my habit of stealing things and my past as a pirait, and the overall me being from calimshan and knowing an assassin and all the other bad stuff. personally i think only my past may get in the way. and since i dont know how are party got togather i cant possibly figure out a reason why we may work togather, i hope the dm finds one out. and hathorym thanks for the spelling i made the post kinda late at night
Edward 06-23-04, 08:50 PM	If the paladins are the typical sort you ether look good in front of them or your character leaves (one way or another). If you don’t have a good (valid) reason to stay with them go. Put your character history in a folder and use it again in a more appropriate party. Although it doesn’t sound like he works well with others. Edward
Nick Soapdish 06-23-04, 08:50 PM	Just being from Calimshan isn't exactly a reason to justify being chaotic neutral. Sure, there's scum there, but there are good people as well. Just because they have slaves in Calimshan doesn't mean you approve of them. I've played two fighters from Calimshan (both in second edition) and both of them were good. And how deep is your history anyway? I mean, how long have you played him?
guru7892 06-23-04, 09:31 PM	Originally posted by Nick Soapdish Just being from Calimshan isn't exactly a reason to justify being chaotic neutral. Sure, there's scum there, but there are good people as well. Just because they have slaves in Calimshan doesn't mean you approve of them. I've played two fighters from Calimshan (both in second edition) and both of them were good. And how deep is your history anyway? I mean, how long have you played him? well i havent played this char at all ( we havent started the campaighn yet) but his history is very detailed and im not even fully done with it (but its as flexable as full-plate). as for the blackmarket life of calimshan, my father owns slaves and ive been around them all my life, my char finds them the social norm. also my father is a part of the higher socity in calimshan, and he is a respectable person. yet since i became a theif (out of spite since my father says im like my mother, but never talks about her) as for working with others, there was never time in my life where i didn't. but i dont know why i would stay with palidens but i know that if (and i probably will) i stay with them they are going to hear "oh but this man really doesnt need 75gp that, wait? where did that begger go"? alot and possibly some "but that really isnt his/hers he bought it off the black market and i was taking this to the authorities, heck we should take him in right now". and if worse comes to worse i have a good lockpick and escape artist ranks. yet if you really want to know why i steal its to help me cope with my lfe that is rather messed up at the start of the campaighn (and remind me of simpler times). i lost everything (no starting equip for me) i had in a shipwreck, including the love of my life, as well as everyone i knew,previously i had to cope with th death of the rogue who taught me everything i know, oh and my father remarried and i have no idea where my mother is. yeah, so since the party is going to be kinda thrust togather at the first session, i dont know if we will stay togather.
Silverthrone 06-23-04, 11:57 PM	I would like to point out that dealing with assasins is an evil act. Being pals with one and condoning what they do is grounds for an alignment shift towards evil in my book. Stealing can also be an evil act, even if you give to the poor, depending upon whom you steal from. Your guy would definately be skirting the edge of an evil alignment and really has no place with good folks, especially a paladin. You might want to rethink the entire concept, it really seems like your the odd man out.
Murr-Quan Lord #2 06-24-04, 12:06 AM	Being who I am, my first suggestion is to switch your alignment to Lawful Good as soon as possible. ^.^ Failing that, you could work with your DM to find some reason why your char ought to stick around. Plenty of good-aligned parties have had a chaotic rogue hanging around with them for one reason or another -- usually he has something they need, like information. If that happens, you ought to play it in such a way that the players, if not their characters, like having you around. Having a good sense of humor might help, as would being good-aligned. Even if not lawful.
WizO_Catoblepas 06-24-04, 12:20 AM	Let me put what is being said in another analogy: Let's say the rest of the players decided to play elves and the DM decided to make the campaign about freeing the elven homeland. Now though I might have made a very colorful and prolific dwarven character thats neutral in alignment and loves to spend all his time underground, that character really isn't a good fit with the rest of the group. Furthermore, my DM is going to have a hard time justifying why the drawf wants to hang around with the elves in the first place. I'd also agree that your best tact is to save this character for another campaign and come up with a character that fits the party better. I think you'll save yourself and the other players in your group from a lot of potential headaches in the future. Best of luck.
guru7892 06-24-04, 02:18 AM	Originally posted by WizO_Catoblepas Let me put what is being said in another analogy: Let's say the rest of the players decided to play elves and the DM decided to make the campaign about freeing the elven homeland. Now though I might have made a very colorful and prolific dwarven character thats neutral in alignment and loves to spend all his time underground, that character really isn't a good fit with the rest of the group. Furthermore, my DM is going to have a hard time justifying why the drawf wants to hang around with the elves in the first place. I'd also agree that your best tact is to save this character for another campaign and come up with a character that fits the party better. I think you'll save yourself and the other players in your group from a lot of potential headaches in the future. Best of luck. well the dm never really pushed tward LG chars it was just kinda a freak thing, everyone decided to be good, just on there own (its like when everyone else gets a critical, and you role a one) i dont think it would cause a problem campainghn (except that tiny thing about everyone hating me stealing, and dealing with the underworld and all that minor stuff) but something that makes it harder is the fact that i dont know how i got to the start of the campaighn (since the dm has hinted tward magical means i cant say that one of the pallies or the cleric have a special mission to reform me, nor can i relate to any of the chars period)we are still waiting for on more player but i doubt im going to get help for that ( if its even possible). i guess ill try and have my charictar make good with the position hes in and try not to talk about my nicly thought out and ever-so well made, 5 month from concept to creation charictar yeah, ill be trying to devote my self to team-work and not getting killed- AND WHAT KINDA PARTY NEEDS TWO PALLYS ANYWAY???
Vexxan 06-24-04, 04:54 AM	It seems your character is thieving mostly out of whimsy and is not intentionally disrupting any balance by doing so. It is a lifestyle and not a totally malevolent one. You've also indicated that your character is not foreign to working alongside others of differeing views. The paladins need to be open minded. Your character is very capable of doing good deeds but they may also become aware that you cross the lines on many occassions. Your character has potential to be valorious and upstanding; the paladins merely need to guide your moral compass on some occassions. If you yourself are willing to accomodate their outlook while adventuring, I see no reason why this party cannot be. While you may do some shady things, do not commit utterly evil acts around them. If you can atone for those shady actions and/or 'learn' from your 'mistakes' those paladins should have no lasting reason to part ways with you. If they can give some leniance and guidance to you, and you can curb your more larcenous activities, I'm sure everyone will be content enough to work together. As a side note, I do not consider dealing with assassins as an evil act. If a virulent poison was slowly killing the lord of the land and the only person available who knows an antidote is an assassin, even a paladin would deal with them. If the assassin served to gain from the dealings and had no quarrel with the lord, why wouldn't he assist? Good and evil, while opposite alignments, need not be fanatical or zealous in their application.
Encard 06-24-04, 02:53 PM	Vexxan, although it's true that good and evil don't necessarily have to be fanatical... Two of the characters are paladin. It is, it seems to me, more or less their job to be fanatical. If they have some compelling reason to stick with the CN rogue in question, I can see it happening... But otherwise I think they may very well have a simple course of action ahead of him in turning him over to the law. Most characters are capable of being upstanding... The thing is, non-good alignment is often an indicator that they aren't. *shrug* Some sort of a redemption-aid party dynamic for the paladins might work... It depends on how the paladins view him, though, and whether he's at all interested in it. Now, as for what to do with the character himself... I'd have to second what several others have said and suggest that you use him in a different campaign. It sounds like the way you've designed this character's deep history is just going to give the rest of your party more reason to not like you. I'd also suggest finding out how your DM wants you to join the party, ASAP. It might give you some ideas.
primemover003 06-24-04, 04:18 PM	The paladins need to be open minded. :rofl:
danielinthewolvesden 06-24-04, 06:07 PM	Your PC is a very bad fit for the party, and will result in some hard feelings and less fun for the other players. The other players will think less of you for it.
Edward 06-24-04, 08:14 PM	I think you should save the character for a different game (that said I held a character concept in reserve for 15 games before I found on that it fit in). If you really want to play this character you will need to do several things. Do very little the paladins would object to. Don’t let the paladins see you do evil, or even bad. Make friends with the paladins. You said you would be thrust together for the start. If you become good friends (only possible if you do the 2 above) then you have a reason to stay together. I played a CG bard that was more than willing to risk life and freedom to save a LN cleric recently of an evil god from prison for committing a crime he would admit she deserved it for. Why because they where friends (and only ever would be friends in spite of his relaxed sleeping habits) after you have travelled close for a year and tag teemed foes until you each lost more HP than you have 3 or 4 times you ether become friends or rivals. I chose friends on the grounds that I could not defeat her in any contest she deemed worth competing in. as I recall the only things of significance we actually agreed upon was that the necromancer needed to die and the colour of ****. Edward
Gilrion 06-24-04, 09:19 PM	I agree with the voices saying "play another character". This one spells trouble for your current party, and if things go badly it will lead to you walking away from the party, at best. That being said, if you are adamant about playing this, and find your fellow players mature enough (can't stress this enough), you can turn it into a great roleplaying opportunity. You seem to steal on a whim. The slavery issue is natural to your character, but people do learn and evolve. I propose you work around these differences with your party, and let everyone change. Depending on what happens in character, you could even see the error of your ways, and the old stick-in-the-mud paladins might come to see the advantages of using the underworld, as long as noone gets hurt. Beware, unless the players cooperate, this will turn bad. If I were you I would tell them "I'm playing a CN rogue that will undoubtedly do things you won't approve with, but I'm willing to roleplay those situations out, and if you bear with me the character may yet change. Are you ok with that?". Again, if you feel your fellow players or yourself are not upto the roleplaying challenge, I strongly suggest you make some other character.
Vexxan 06-24-04, 10:42 PM	Originally posted by Encard Vexxan, although it's true that good and evil don't necessarily have to be fanatical... Two of the characters are paladin. It is, it seems to me, more or less their job to be fanatical. Unfortunately this is the interpretation many people have of paladins. This is also the reason why they are usually a nuisance to mixed alignment groups. Thankfully I play in a group that has a different view. Among our group, paladins live to embody the virtues of their chosen deity. They are not travelling priests looking to convert everything they encounter to LG. They are not judges or jurys or executioners except when it applies to their own actions. The truly fanatical types are axed before character creation even begins. They must understand that not everyone is capable of the devotion and discipline they, as paladins, posess. Those who falter can be redeemed and the paladin cannot be responsible for the redemption of every single soul. They must faithfully believe that the truly wicked will receive their just due at some point, even if they are not there to deliver it. Guidance is what they offer to those who are willing, but they do not force every thief into a jail cell. What of the rogue who is only doing so to feed his family? Does he deserve to be put in the stocks for his crimes? No. To do so would be to extinguish all hope of redemption and condemn an unfortunate soul to the Hells. Life has value and you can take away a life without resorting to murder. Far too many paladins in other campaigns are arrogant, proud and self-righteous due to their unquestioning fanaticism. These are not good and pure virtues. This is not what a palaldin was born to be. I'm truly sorry that when I mention an open minded paladin I get laughter in response. I truly feel for the lack of maturity and sensibility among your groups if a concept like that is unheard of.
Nick Soapdish 06-24-04, 11:33 PM	Open minded is one thing, but if the party member is constantly going to be stealing in their presence and possibly dealing with assassins, it's going to be tough to remain lawful good. This particular thief isn't stealing to feed his family. In fact, he's stealing to annoy them.
Vexxan 06-25-04, 01:38 AM	That is why in my previous post I advised curbing those larcenous habits while accompanying the paladins. If they can be forgiving of his nature and he can make an effort to not insult the paladins with behaviors they dislike, the party can meet halfway and gain mutual benefit. I don't see what's so difficult about the situation, but it may not be to the liking of these particular players/characters. If that is the case, by all means shelf the rogue and go with something less abrasive to the party dynamic.