Post/Author/DateTime	Post
foxtrothacker 06-25-06, 02:39 PM	My party is a assaulting the tower of an evil wizard with the goal of killing him. The tower is filled with traps and obstacles to overcome. Hence far we had to overcome: An antimagic field in part of the tower. Dimensional achor in the ENTIRE tower. 2 Stone Golems in a 30 by 30 by 30 room. A living staircase. A pitch black room filled with unknown monsters. A room with a living wall. Another Stone Golem. A door that only opens if a player sticks a sword in his side and a thorn in his eye. Permanent Spell Turning doors and walls. we are currently in a room where every part of the wall, ceiling, and floor is covered with permanent spell turning materials. The room is 10 by 10 by 10. In the center of the room is a glass box. The glass box is just big enough to fit a medium creature inside. Also there was a scroll. It said, "You must sacrifice your own to pass." We had one party member go into the box. 4 fire traps go off, a spike rises from the bottom of hte box, and acid rains down apon you. A Force cage appears and traps you in the glass box. After the final trap goes off, you dissappear. Our party member survived the box, and was somehow transfered to the next room in the tower. The problem is... there are 4 people left to go. An undead sorcerer (cohort) who will be able to survive it becuase of his high hp and ability to get temp hp. Another cohort who is a melee class and has enough hp to survive. I am a Tiefling Duskblade(19) with a 144 hp. The remaining player is a level 20 Ninja, with a d6 hit dice, so he has less hp then i do. We cannot survive the box that does an estimated 200+ damage. We cannot figure how to pass the room. We had the ninja try to disable the traps, hoping the next character would take less damage, be more likely to survive, and then be transfered to the next room, but apparently, if all the traps don't go off, you don't get transfered to the next room. So apparently the only way to get to the next room is to take 200+ damage, something the two remaining players cannot do. I was talking to the dm, and he said there is something that we are missing, but my fellow player and i can't see waht it is. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
Mordenth 06-25-06, 03:07 PM	By the scroll, it sounds like someone would have to die, but that seems like an unfair trap.
Another Gnome 06-25-06, 03:12 PM	Sit back and wait until the owner of the place or someone in his service shows up and see how they pass the traps. Playing cards in the meanwhile is optional.
Planar Wanderer 06-25-06, 03:14 PM	Protection from Energy should be a start, at CL 10 (you're epic so that shouldn't be a problem) will pull 120 damage from the acid and the fire each if you cast it twice, shield other as well on could cut off even more if used with healing so lets say you've got 400 total (I'm guessing on the harsh side here) 150 acid, 100 from the spike and 150 from the fire, now the protection from energy spells take you down to 30 acid, 30 fire 100 from the spike cut half of that off the damage should be 15 acid, 15 fire and 50 from the spike, which gives you 80 damage, anything which gives you DR might take a bit off of that so that should be a start. Edited to add, assuming the whole place isn't dimensionally locked scry on the tank and teleport there might be another option
foxtrothacker 06-25-06, 03:15 PM	well, there was the room i mentioned above, where we had our undead cohort stick a sword in his side and a thorn in his eye. also, i forgot to say, the ninja, to do an experiment, went to the closest town/city and kidnapped a farmer. The ninja put the farmer into the glass box. The traps went off, and he was transported to the next room. When our 1 player who has stepped into hte box thus far went to the next room, he let us know (out of character of course) that he was highly injured, and that the farmers dead body was next to him. So obviously you have to survive the trap.
utilitarian 06-25-06, 03:23 PM	Perhaps the person who gets transfered to the other room is meant to do something to do something over there to allow the rest of your party to pass without using the box. The clue clearly says "one" must be sacrificed, it seems contradictory that you would all have to go through it in order to get out. Or perhaps if someone dies in the box (the sacrifice) it triggers a contingent True Ressurection or something? Try Detect Magic and see what kinds the box uses. So far you've seen Evocation, Conjuration, Transmutation, and Abjuration, but no Necomancy. If the box has an aura of necromancy, that might suggest a ressurection or Heal spell of some kind.
foxtrothacker 06-25-06, 03:25 PM	Edited to add, assuming the whole place isn't dimensionally locked scry on the tank and teleport there might be another option The entire tower is dimensionally anchored, so it is a non magical means of transportation, according to the dm. our sorcerer cohort was created by the dm, and does not have any energy resistance spells to cast on us. Also there is no cleric. We would like to be able to figure this out without spending any of our gold, but you have all given good ideas. Keep them coming.
Planar Wanderer 06-25-06, 03:25 PM	Perhaps the person who gets transfered to the other room is meant to do something to do something over there to allow the rest of your party to pass without using the box. The clue clearly says "one" must be sacrificed, it seems contradictory that you would all have to go through it in order to get out. Or perhaps if someone dies in the box (the sacrifice) it triggers a contingent True Ressurection or something? Try Detect Magic and see what kinds the box uses. So far you've seen Evocation, Conjuration, Transmutation, and Abjuration, but no Necomancy. If the box has an aura of necromancy, that might suggest a ressurection or Heal spell of some kind. If they're palying 3.5 healing is conjuration and there plainly isn't a resurrection else the farmer wouldn't be dead.
was_fired 06-25-06, 03:38 PM	If anyone can cast shapechange getting through this trap would be easy for them (shapechange into a pit fiend and thus gain regeneration / resistances). For everyone else: Stoneskin (DR 10), Protection from Energy (Fire), and Protection from Energy (Acid). Only both using stoneskin if the trap's spikes don't deal all of their damage instantly. If they are a damage over time effect stoneskin will be well worth it though. Since the area is anchored you can't just use the happy bag of holding trick. Since your DM sounds like he is rail roading you a tad you can't use the destroy the wall and keep moving trick.
utilitarian 06-25-06, 03:39 PM	If they're palying 3.5 healing is conjuration and there plainly isn't a resurrection else the farmer wouldn't be dead. Hmm good point Planar Wanderer, maybe if someone who is ALREADY dead is put into the trap?
Comus 06-25-06, 03:50 PM	Here's an idea... Instead of trying to get through the trap, why not go around it? You've said this is a tower, right? Well, why not cast fly or polymorph into a flying creature, get to the top, then blast your way in? Even if you don't have either of those spells, you should be able to manage a spider climb or, heck, just a decent climb check from the ninja. One person gets to the top, tosses down a rope, and the rest climb on up. Acid or sonic damage should be able to get through the tower. If magic doesn't work, vials of acid are a good way to go. Heck, even if you just grab a pick, you should be able to get through it eventually. Think outside the box.
Tusz 06-25-06, 03:53 PM	Going by the trap's description and your DM's hint that you're missing something, I'll have to second the "only need to send one person through" idea. I would have the person on the other side search around the room he's in, to see if there's any way of opening a less lethal passageway.
utilitarian 06-25-06, 03:53 PM	Here's an idea... Instead of trying to get through the trap, why not go around it? You've said this is a tower, right? Well, why not cast fly or polymorph into a flying creature, get to the top, then blast your way in? Even if you don't have either of those spells, you should be able to manage a spider climb or, heck, just a decent climb check from the ninja. One person gets to the top, tosses down a rope, and the rest climb on up. Acid or sonic damage should be able to get through the tower. If magic doesn't work, vials of acid are a good way to go. Heck, even if you just grab a pick, you should be able to get through it eventually. Think outside the box. Given the amount of spell turning and antimagic present in the construction of the tower I'm sure it would be equally present on the outside. I'd hate to have my Disintigrate rebound back on me.
Comus 06-25-06, 04:02 PM	Given the amount of spell turning and antimagic present in the construction of the tower I'm sure it would be equally present on the outside. I'd hate to have my Disintigrate rebound back on me. That's why I suggested vials of acid. Nonmagical, but they should work. Maybe a couple of ditherbombs, if the players can afford it. Adamantine weapons to cut through the stone... there are a lot of ways to get through a wall without magic. It'd also get him around any other traps if he can just get right to the wizard. And note that if they ever do get to the wizard, they should drag his corpse back to town and have a cleric ask his corpse how the heck he got into his tower without dying. Also, what spells does the undead cohort know? Anything useful?
utilitarian 06-25-06, 04:10 PM	Hmmm non-magical acid eh? While your idea intruiges me, given the DM has shown himself to be more than willing to use things as he sees fit (Dimensional Anchor everywhere) I'm willing to be there's SOMETHING preventing outside entry into the tower. I mean, by all means try it, but my "Deus Ex DMing" senses are tingling and I'm willing to wager SOMETHING will prevent it from working. For instance, the upper area around the tower might be surrounded by antimagic, so you'd fly up and then fall down o_O
Sphyre 06-25-06, 04:33 PM	A door that only opens if a player sticks a sword in his side and a thorn in his eye. Permanent Spell Turning doors and walls. That's a pretty stupid one.... but I don't see anything about not being able to smash it down with your big sword/mace/weapon of choice.
was_fired 06-25-06, 04:33 PM	You could also try casting resilient sphere or telekentic sphere on whoever goes inside the trap. Since the means of transport are nonmagical they don't require a line of effect so the sphere shouldn't block it. Since the sphere blocks all forms of attack however the person inside should go completely unharmed baring an act of DM.
Thiez 06-25-06, 04:35 PM	Which would not be a problem because your fly spell would kick in when you fall out of the antimagic zone. I'd just get an adamantine greataxe and annoy the hell out of the DM: Simply cut down the damn tower. Alright, so it takes a few weeks. The sorcerer has to come out when he feels his tower collapsing :D
Draconian220 06-25-06, 05:08 PM	I officially name this the tower of "The Dm wants the players to die!" Seriously, and game were the DM makes you hurt yourselves to continue on is kinda missing something itself... sanity. I Agree with Comus, get some climbing gear and climb up the side of the thing. I mean any character Ive played would have said "To the 9 hells with it!" by this point and went back to town to have a good glass of wine before going to the nearest mages guild. Let them deal with it.
DarkNick 06-25-06, 05:43 PM	Can the person that was transported to the next room open the door from their side? (If there is a door that is). How do they get back out? How about smash the glass box? When all else fails try and smash something. :D
Makuya 06-25-06, 06:08 PM	Mass suicide, followed by dropping out. The only way I can figure out.
Encard 06-25-06, 06:33 PM	Can you pull off pieces of the wall an use them as a shield, or something similar? You said they had spell turning on them...
SeraphimDominion 06-25-06, 07:17 PM	The ninja, at least, should be able to step in the box and then Ghost Step (ethereal) for a round to avoid the damage.
coppro 06-25-06, 07:23 PM	Dimensional Anchor.
Juzzman 06-25-06, 08:58 PM	After the final trap goes off, you dissappear. To me this is at odds with the dimensional anchor statement. If we take the dm's word that the dissappearing is non magical, then it should be easy enough to crack open that secret trapdoor that the person was wooshed through and follow that tunnel into the next room. If you have any form of communication with your friend in the next room he should be able to tell you exactly what happened. If you dont, you really shouldnt be playing on the fact that you know it transports you in the first place, it could have just disintergrated your buddies. (If i threw a live farmer in a box, and he got fireballed, soaked in acid and spiked, then disappeared, i sure as well wouldnt get in!) Either way, it seems that the dm is having a hard time dealing with your high level powers, and is also suffering from a case of 'i know the answer, it's so obvious, why cant you guess it' syndrome, so i suggest you play on using the excellent suggestions presented here. He doesnt want you bypassing his traps, you must either take the punishment or solve them his way. Good luck Juz
utilitarian 06-25-06, 09:12 PM	Well I would assume the have communication with the previously transported character, as he is confirming that he is on the other side with the dead villager. I'm actually curious HOW they're communicating with him. If he's just shouting through a wall you ought to be able to break through it. If it's telepathic communication, you should be able to use that to your advantage. If you're just metagaming it then I have nothing to say to you!~ Have you tried MOVING the box? Also, I still say try putting someone dead inside.
foxtrothacker 06-25-06, 10:17 PM	WOW!!!! You guys have made me very happy by the tremendous response. Here's some more info which was important taht i forgot to mention, and will cause some of your advice it be invalid. Sorry. The tower is made out of a new material that only the wizard has access to. He discoverd/made it. It is harder then adamatine, so much harder that disintegrate only removes 5 cubic feet, rather then the normal 10 cubic feet, a 1/8 size block. The sorcerer cohorts spell list (MADE BY THE DM) is very offensive and provides no energy resistance spells. There being no wizard, we have a very limited spell selection (me, the only other caster, is a duskblade, also offensive spell selection). If we want any kind of magical protection beyond something like invisiblity or the such, we need to buy it, which we would rather not do. Eneard/Sphyre: Thank you, those are good ideas, i will suggest to manually break through the walls/ use a chunk as a shield, htough the material is EXTREMELY HARD, harder then adamantine. Theiz: GREAT IDEA!! If i don't figure out a way soon, i'm going to try and collapse the tower by removing a good chunk of one side of it. Comus: GOOD IDEA! i will try to enter from the top if we cannot figure out the glass box room. Draconian220: The DM is playing from the BBEG's "Impossible to pass, protect self"perspective, rather then the "this is a game for my friends" perspective. Darwick: There is no door in the glass box room. It is the First room without a door, that we know of anyways, and our elf did not sense any secret doors. Utilitarian: The one pc being ok, and the dead farmer are metagaming, but i htought that you guys should know that for you to be able to accurately help me and my fellow player. Also, i'm going to ignore that knowledge when i play, using only the knowledge that my friend seemed to still be alive (though badly hurt) just before he vanished. My character is going to assume he very well be dead unless he sees otherwise. Thank you and keep the help coming. You guys have made me see some of the OBVIOUS things i've missed. Thank you. EDIT::::: We have no means of communicatin with the player that METAGAMINGLY we found out survived the box. For all our characters know, both he and the farmer are dead, though only the farmer really is. Also, the DM did tell the player there is no immediately apparent way to let us through, but once again, that is METAGAMING and will become more apparent as to wether the DM keeps taht true or not during the next session.
Draconian220 06-25-06, 10:30 PM	The DM is playing from the BBEG's "Impossible to pass, protect self"perspective, rather then the "this is a game for my friends" perspective. But if its this hard for a group of people to get past things, wouldn't it take the BBEG so long to get up and down that it would be worthless? And i do believe this has gone past " wants protection" into the "ridiculously paranoid" level lol
foxtrothacker 06-25-06, 10:37 PM	The BBEG is a paranoid mo'fo. The setting is kindof ebberon-esque. There was a nation, ruled by 1 king. The nation went to war, the king died, 5 generals took over, then after winning the war started fueding and split the one nation into 5 parts. This wizard is one of the 5 said generals. He is paranoid allright, that one of the other generals are going to assasinate him. He never leaves the tower.
utilitarian 06-25-06, 10:53 PM	Did I call the external tower entrance Deus Ex DMing or what? Since your party appears to have no moral justifications to using random peasants as test subjects, I suggest kiling one and putting his dead corpse in the device. Also, try a man-sized inanimate object.
The_Unfan 06-25-06, 11:02 PM	Why couldn't it just be a simple Scooby Doo trap like the stairway that turns into a slide?
was_fired 06-25-06, 11:18 PM	Your lack of utility and defensive spells is a real problem in this case. I'm kind of suprised you got this far without them. I doubt there is any real way to get through this without them meaning you will need to spend money. If you could give us a full spell list of your spells, the sorc's spells, and all magic items capable of being used to cast spells we might be able to help you more.
HalfMunchkin 06-26-06, 12:10 AM	What exactly does the room look like? Any strange markings or anything? There might be a hidden switch that deactivates the traps.
foxtrothacker 06-26-06, 09:59 AM	was fired: this is was our first session. our dm had us start out at lvl. 20, so there really wasn't much gettting this far. (besides what we did in my first post.) Halfmunchkin: the walls, floor, and cieling are very shiny and are permanent spell turning. They fact that they are so shiny resulted in us not being able to see easily, the room is almost blinding. the scroll that i mentioned, our ninja only just passed the spot check to find, and he has a very large spot modifier. The box is just large enough to fit a medium creature in with little wiggle room. Our elf (the ninja) walked around the room searching for things, and he did not sense any secret doors (not even in the glass box full of traps), and did not see anything, though the shinyness is a problem. I'll suggest to my players that we search the room again, but knowing my DM, the scroll will probably be all we get.
Ryusage 06-27-06, 07:07 PM	I'm surprised no one has suggested this yet. Shoot your DM. With a hammer. Better yet, ask Chuck Norris (very nicely) to roundhouse kick your DM in the crotch. But make sure you don't rhyme in the presence of Chuck Norris.
greatamericanfolkhero 06-27-06, 08:14 PM	It's simple really; the place is dimensionally anchored, so he's not teleporting out. If the campaign has no time limit, you have a few options. Is the BBEG an undead, or something else that doesn't need to eat? If not, then siege warfare will be the way to go. Cut off his supplies. No food or water in or out. Kill anything trying to escape or enter the tower. If he is able to get out of the tower, so much the better, because now you know that there is a secret way to get in and out of the place. Find it use it. If the BBEG doesn't need to eat, siege warfare is still the way to go. I think the other general would be willing to lend you a catapult or ten. Hire enough people to keep them firing 24/7, and eventually the walls will come down. Have people fly over bombarding the tower with acid. It will take some time, but the tower will fall. Get some Dwarven miners to dig underneath one side of the tower. Eventually the foundation will give way. Just remember, slow and steady. Have patience, and the tower will fall.
DarkNick 06-27-06, 10:24 PM	Sounds like a plan I reckon. Good thinking. It's not very refined, but it will get results.
seret 06-28-06, 05:31 PM	cant you just disable half of the traps and then take the pain from the rest, then heal disable the ones who work and enable the ones you disabled before. then you still get all the traps in yor face but at full hp each time hope that helps
Exquisite_Flopilidopilies 06-28-06, 07:35 PM	Everyone in the party needs to take 20 on searches, paying "special attention" to any detail you can think of, like the box's seams, how it's joined to the floor, etc., and this especially includes the guy who got in it. Has the passing through of your guy changed anything about the rest of the tower? No gaps, entrances, new secret doors, etc.? It could have triggered the unlocking of a secret door some distance away. Don't count on your elf noticing secret doors, search for them, carefully, everywhere. The DM is clearly presenting you with a puzzle, and you aren't seeing a solution; the more you investigate, the more skill rolls you make or IC conversation you have, the more opportunity you give him to drop more hints. On the upside, when you do pass, your necromancer can animate the farmer and he can walk ahead of you, triggering traps.
xlivid 06-28-06, 08:34 PM	Start massivly casting "turn stone to clay" and start removing bits of the foundation, eventually the tower will collapse (hopefully) destroying everything inside that tower. Some controlled demolition never hurted any PC ;)
foxtrothacker 06-29-06, 09:39 PM	Secret: Our ninja managed to disble 3/4 fire traps, and the spike when the one cohort went through. He was hit by one fire trap and the acid shower trap thing, and he did not go anywere. Our assumption was that all 6 traps had to go off to be relocated.
Aegeu 06-30-06, 07:22 PM	Reduce Person so you can fit everyone inside the box and split the damage between the 2 of you. Try and blunt the effects of the trap but still let it go off (by breaking the spikes, or clogging the acid sprays). If you don't know a spell you need, remember that to cast a spell from a scroll, you only need it to be on your class list, not your personal list. Also, you can UMD.
Mr_Hackman 07-02-06, 04:04 AM	Cut off his supplies. No food or water in or out. Kill anything trying to escape or enter the tower.If the guy never leaves the tower, which he dosn't, he most likely has one of these Sustaining Spoon: This unremarkable eating utensil is typically fashioned from horn. If the spoon is placed in an empty container the vessel fills with a thick, pasty gruel. Although this substance has a flavor similar to that of warm, wet cardboard, it is highly nourishing and contains everything necessary to sustain any herbivorous, omnivorous, or carnivorous creature. The spoon can produce sufficient gruel each day to feed up to four humans. Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, create food and water; Price 5,400 gp.Regarding Leaving the room via the trap; Dimension locked = no magical transport. When they leave they "dissapear" so trapdoor is possible but unlikely. So we've eliminated magical and mechanical. One question: Are you using psionics? Teleport, Psionic Psychoportation (Teleportation) Level: Nomad 5 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal and touch Target or Targets: You and touched objects or other touched willing creatures Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None or Will negates (object) Power Resistance: No or Yes (object) Power Points: 9 As the teleport spell, except as noted here. Dimensional anchor blocks teleport yes, but this isn't teleport. The difficult of the spot checks in that room are screaming at me saying "TAKE 20 SEARCH CHECKS ON EACH 5 FOOT SQUARE IN THE ROOM!!" obey the voices! they carry wisdom disguised as insanity I'd also suggest you tear down the tower with soften earth and stone, or if it's built on a rockbed; stone to flesh. that might also work on the tower itself come to think of it. or even just on the walls in the room with the glass box. aaaaand im out of ideas. ask the DM about the psionics tho.
foxtrothacker 07-02-06, 01:02 PM	While there is a chance that there are psionics involved, Our DM hates psionics and has in all past circumstances refused to play/allow psionics. So... its unlikely, but i'll ask.
Vanigo 07-02-06, 06:01 PM	I suggest boning up on what spell turning does and does not affect. It only affects a certain subset of spells - spells that directly target the subject and have a range greater than touch. Disintegrate is a ray spell, and therefore unaffected. Now, your DM may have this be a nonstandard spell turning effect - I'd say it's more likely than not, really - so be sure to have the sorcerer figure out what he can with spellcraft before you try it.
Iry 07-02-06, 10:32 PM	Step outside the tower and either have the Sorcerer cast Summon Monster himself, or gain the ability to cast Summon Monster by any means which may include gaining a level. Outside the tower, summon as many Beholders as you desire. From there, you have a number of options ranging from walking into the Teleport Anchor area and start selectively blasting walls and anything else that looks screwy. Alternately, just line the tower with Beholders and start taking it out 5 feet per beholder per round.