Inane questions about making a were-fox or other small size class lycanthropes. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Inane questions about making a were-fox or other small size class lycanthropes. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SkeletonPsychic
08-03-05, 08:45 AM I have a few questions in regards to making a werefox as close to canon as possible. I'm using the 3.5 monster manual template with which to make it. I couldn't find foxes in any first party books, but I did find a 3.0 fox in a Dragon magazine (issue 291). I also found partial stats in Oriental Adventures. Both sources result in the same ability bonuses, but there's no saves in any book to my knowledge. So, my questions are as follows.

The racial hit die for a fox is 1/2d8. This raises some unique questions that any small creature based lycanthrope would have. My questions are as follows.

1) Does the 1/2d8 count for a full level for all purposes?

The fox class wouldn't receive less skill points for the half die, would it? I wouldn't assume so, but I figure it might.

Or, would the die be increased to a full hit die so as to not muck up any formulae? Once again, I wouldn't assume so, but I am not certain.

2) Does anyone know the books in 3.5 that deal with lycanthropy other than the monster manual?

3) Are articles on the main site considered canon for all practical purposes? I read an article about Eberron where lycanthropes don't necessarily have to match their alignment from the monster manual. Also, some books say that until puberty lycanthropes are normal members of a species, and I'd assume they don't have to be that alignment yet. I never saw anything in any book about natural lycanthropy forcing an alignment change.

4) Has there ever been any official information on an arctic fox in 3.0? Just curious. My DM will probably just use a fox and give a circumstantial penalty for not matching surroundings as far as not being white like snow. (The polar bear in the MM does the same thing.)

5) If no one knows, is there an e-mail for rules clarifications?

I realize, of course, that all of this is all ultimately up to the DM of the game. My DM trusts me and pretty much doesn't care, but I'd like to try to at least get as close to canon as possible. I just feel like I'm cheating if I stray /too/ far from canon. There's no need to cheat in a co-operative game between friends. There's no need to cheat in any pen and paper rpg, but you know what I mean.

Also, I've seen a couple of other werefox builds around, but they were so far from the lycanthropic canon template (and usually overpowered for the Level Adjustment in my opinion). Also, most of them try to incorporate a lot of kitsune like mythos when I'm just shooting for a lycanthrope that happens to be a fox.

Thanks for anyone who gives input or information in advance.
Nom
08-03-05, 10:17 AM I have a few questions in regards to making a werefox as close to canon as possible. I'm using the 3.5 monster manual template with which to make it. I couldn't find foxes in any first party books, but I did find a 3.0 fox in a Dragon magazine (issue 291). I also found partial stats in Oriental Adventures. Both sources result in the same ability bonuses, but there's no saves in any book to my knowledge. So, my questions are as follows.

The racial hit die for a fox is 1/2d8. This raises some unique questions that any small creature based lycanthrope would have. My questions are as follows.

1) Does the 1/2d8 count for a full level for all purposes?

The fox class wouldn't receive less skill points for the half die, would it? I wouldn't assume so, but I figure it might.I couldn't see definitive rules on 1/2 HD creatures, but the PH examples seem to award them all the normal 1st level stuff.

PS: "fewer skill points". Less is singular, fewer is plural.
2) Does anyone know the books in 3.5 that deal with lycanthropy other than the monster manual?I'm not aware of any that specifically deal with rules for lycanthropes, though Savage Species might help.
3) Are articles on the main site considered canon for all practical purposes? I read an article about Eberron ...No. Eberron articles, for example, deal with one particular setting. It might be near-canon for Eberron, but it has no weight in other campaign worlds.
5) If no one knows, is there an e-mail for rules clarifications?custserv@wizards.com

Notwithstanding the above, I think a 1/2 HD fox is a mistake. Consider "dog" (MM pg 271). "The statistics presented here are for a fairly small dog of about 20 to 50 pounds in weight. They can also be used for small wild canines such as coyotes, jackals and African wild dogs." (20-50 lb is 9 kg - 23 kg). Considering that your average fox is clearly bigger than your average housecat (which is a 1/2 HD creature), I'd be using the dog entry as a starting point. In fact, you don't need to go much beyond it, except perhaps grant a racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently (I recommend +4 each).

Once you have that, you can just apply the lycanthrope template as normal from MM pp 175-178.
Shimmer01
08-03-05, 04:03 PM There is the Artic Fox in the Frostburn book. BUt yes, just use the Small Dog creature in MM. If you go to the lycanthrope section in the MM, it tells you how to create other Lycanthropes. The alignment change, I go by that until the PC is either able to control the beast, or gets rid of it (Unless natural), then they become that alignment only when its not their choice to control. Cheap way around this is to stay in the hybrid form of the animal and just buy a hat of disguise. But I don't like the permancy of the alignment change because that can mess up a whole campaign and possibly force the other party members to kill their friend.
Vanigo
08-03-05, 09:59 PM I don't think fractional hit dice exist in 3.5. Just bring it up to a full hit die.
SkeletonPsychic
08-04-05, 07:40 AM That is awesome information! Thanks for letting me know that it's in Frostburn. That takes care of any quantitative questions. I was aiming for an arctic fox in the first place. Now, I don't have to use the red fox stats (which don't so much exist for 3.5).

Also, since it is for a standard D&D game, I guess the Eberron thing doesn't hold water.

As far as my grammar error, I apologize about that. I try to not only spell check but grammar check as well. It appears you are right as I looked it up in the book entitled "Common Errors in English Usage" by Paul Brians. You can find the web version at " http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/amount.html ." I don't always consult that book, but I distinctly remembered that entry. I read the book version of that web site when I am bored. I received it as a cool birthday present. ^_^
Nom
08-04-05, 08:13 AM That is awesome information! Thanks for letting me know that it's in Frostburn. That takes care of any quantitative questions. I was aiming for an arctic fox in the first place. Now, I don't have to use the red fox stats (which don't so much exist for 3.5).If you've found something suitable in Frostburn, great. Otherwise the dog will work nicely.
As far as my grammar error, I apologize about that. I try to not only spell check but grammar check as well.No need to apologise. I'm just very picky about that particular error (that and affect / effect). :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SkeletonPsychic 08-03-05, 08:45 AM	I have a few questions in regards to making a werefox as close to canon as possible. I'm using the 3.5 monster manual template with which to make it. I couldn't find foxes in any first party books, but I did find a 3.0 fox in a Dragon magazine (issue 291). I also found partial stats in Oriental Adventures. Both sources result in the same ability bonuses, but there's no saves in any book to my knowledge. So, my questions are as follows. The racial hit die for a fox is 1/2d8. This raises some unique questions that any small creature based lycanthrope would have. My questions are as follows. 1) Does the 1/2d8 count for a full level for all purposes? The fox class wouldn't receive less skill points for the half die, would it? I wouldn't assume so, but I figure it might. Or, would the die be increased to a full hit die so as to not muck up any formulae? Once again, I wouldn't assume so, but I am not certain. 2) Does anyone know the books in 3.5 that deal with lycanthropy other than the monster manual? 3) Are articles on the main site considered canon for all practical purposes? I read an article about Eberron where lycanthropes don't necessarily have to match their alignment from the monster manual. Also, some books say that until puberty lycanthropes are normal members of a species, and I'd assume they don't have to be that alignment yet. I never saw anything in any book about natural lycanthropy forcing an alignment change. 4) Has there ever been any official information on an arctic fox in 3.0? Just curious. My DM will probably just use a fox and give a circumstantial penalty for not matching surroundings as far as not being white like snow. (The polar bear in the MM does the same thing.) 5) If no one knows, is there an e-mail for rules clarifications? I realize, of course, that all of this is all ultimately up to the DM of the game. My DM trusts me and pretty much doesn't care, but I'd like to try to at least get as close to canon as possible. I just feel like I'm cheating if I stray /too/ far from canon. There's no need to cheat in a co-operative game between friends. There's no need to cheat in any pen and paper rpg, but you know what I mean. Also, I've seen a couple of other werefox builds around, but they were so far from the lycanthropic canon template (and usually overpowered for the Level Adjustment in my opinion). Also, most of them try to incorporate a lot of kitsune like mythos when I'm just shooting for a lycanthrope that happens to be a fox. Thanks for anyone who gives input or information in advance.
Nom 08-03-05, 10:17 AM	I have a few questions in regards to making a werefox as close to canon as possible. I'm using the 3.5 monster manual template with which to make it. I couldn't find foxes in any first party books, but I did find a 3.0 fox in a Dragon magazine (issue 291). I also found partial stats in Oriental Adventures. Both sources result in the same ability bonuses, but there's no saves in any book to my knowledge. So, my questions are as follows. The racial hit die for a fox is 1/2d8. This raises some unique questions that any small creature based lycanthrope would have. My questions are as follows. 1) Does the 1/2d8 count for a full level for all purposes? The fox class wouldn't receive less skill points for the half die, would it? I wouldn't assume so, but I figure it might.I couldn't see definitive rules on 1/2 HD creatures, but the PH examples seem to award them all the normal 1st level stuff. PS: "fewer skill points". Less is singular, fewer is plural. 2) Does anyone know the books in 3.5 that deal with lycanthropy other than the monster manual?I'm not aware of any that specifically deal with rules for lycanthropes, though Savage Species might help. 3) Are articles on the main site considered canon for all practical purposes? I read an article about Eberron ...No. Eberron articles, for example, deal with one particular setting. It might be near-canon for Eberron, but it has no weight in other campaign worlds. 5) If no one knows, is there an e-mail for rules clarifications?custserv@wizards.com Notwithstanding the above, I think a 1/2 HD fox is a mistake. Consider "dog" (MM pg 271). "The statistics presented here are for a fairly small dog of about 20 to 50 pounds in weight. They can also be used for small wild canines such as coyotes, jackals and African wild dogs." (20-50 lb is 9 kg - 23 kg). Considering that your average fox is clearly bigger than your average housecat (which is a 1/2 HD creature), I'd be using the dog entry as a starting point. In fact, you don't need to go much beyond it, except perhaps grant a racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently (I recommend +4 each). Once you have that, you can just apply the lycanthrope template as normal from MM pp 175-178.
Shimmer01 08-03-05, 04:03 PM	There is the Artic Fox in the Frostburn book. BUt yes, just use the Small Dog creature in MM. If you go to the lycanthrope section in the MM, it tells you how to create other Lycanthropes. The alignment change, I go by that until the PC is either able to control the beast, or gets rid of it (Unless natural), then they become that alignment only when its not their choice to control. Cheap way around this is to stay in the hybrid form of the animal and just buy a hat of disguise. But I don't like the permancy of the alignment change because that can mess up a whole campaign and possibly force the other party members to kill their friend.
Vanigo 08-03-05, 09:59 PM	I don't think fractional hit dice exist in 3.5. Just bring it up to a full hit die.
SkeletonPsychic 08-04-05, 07:40 AM	That is awesome information! Thanks for letting me know that it's in Frostburn. That takes care of any quantitative questions. I was aiming for an arctic fox in the first place. Now, I don't have to use the red fox stats (which don't so much exist for 3.5). Also, since it is for a standard D&D game, I guess the Eberron thing doesn't hold water. As far as my grammar error, I apologize about that. I try to not only spell check but grammar check as well. It appears you are right as I looked it up in the book entitled "Common Errors in English Usage" by Paul Brians. You can find the web version at " http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/amount.html ." I don't always consult that book, but I distinctly remembered that entry. I read the book version of that web site when I am bored. I received it as a cool birthday present. ^_^
Nom 08-04-05, 08:13 AM	That is awesome information! Thanks for letting me know that it's in Frostburn. That takes care of any quantitative questions. I was aiming for an arctic fox in the first place. Now, I don't have to use the red fox stats (which don't so much exist for 3.5).If you've found something suitable in Frostburn, great. Otherwise the dog will work nicely. As far as my grammar error, I apologize about that. I try to not only spell check but grammar check as well.No need to apologise. I'm just very picky about that particular error (that and affect / effect). :)