Incantatrix help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Incantatrix help? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Link182
02-18-04, 09:00 PM I recently made a wizard/incantratrix 8/10. Considering all the metamagic options, can anyone tell me about some killer spell combo's or metamagic options they;ve chosen for this class?
Or any other spellcaster for that matter.
Mandemon
02-18-04, 09:26 PM I haven't actually made up an incantatrix (as described in Mages of Faerun), basically because I don't like having to give up two or more spell schools. It does seem, however, that you would want to load up on metamagic feats if you want to take maximum advantage of the the Instant Metamagic class feature, especially the more powerful feats that are useful in combat. Twin Spell is better than Twin Ray, and Persistent Spell is normally used on spells cast outside of combat. Quicken Spell, Widen Spell, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell (stacks), and Heighten Spell would also be appropriate. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration could also be useful.

I tend to max out on my prime requisite's ability score and find a way to use that score instead of other abilities on various base stats. For example, a wizard would take a level of duelist, while a sorceror would take a few levels of paladin or holy liberator, assuming I can find a way to get the prerequisites without losing a lot of magical ability.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-18-04, 10:34 PM Regarding the Instant Metamagic ability, I've found Heighten to be very useful to boost save DCs. Quicken is also useful in a pinch, or an instant Maximize.

Improved Metamagic: I tend to prepare a lot more Quickened spells. Twin Spell is a useful feat as well (when used with direct damage spells such as Fireball or Chain Lightning), as is Widen Spell for those area of effect spells.

I'd strongly encourage you to take two Archmage levels. Mastery of Shaping is an incredibly useful ability, as is Mastery of Elements. Spell Power got a bit nerfed in 3.5, or I'd suggest taking that as your second high arcana ability.

Consider using an 8th-level slot to prepare a Maximized Twinned Fireball (Improved Metamagic reduces the level of each metamagic feat by one), or a 9th-level slot to prepare an Empowered Widened Twinned Fireball. That's a pretty big area of effect (40'-radius), potentially dealing 30d6 damage. Combine that with Mastery of Elements (to choose an elemental damage your targets are weak to; i.e. cold for fire creatures, etc.) and/or Mastery of Shaping to protect your party members, and life is suddenly a lot of fun. :D

[Edit: I just thought about a Maximized, Empowered, Twinned Scorching Ray... 8th level spell that deals 144 + 12d6 damage (if you succeed at all your touch attacks; potential of 216 damage to a single target, no save...). I'd go for that. ;)]
Link182
02-18-04, 11:12 PM Cool. I'll check out the scorching ray. Thanks!
Link182
02-18-04, 11:46 PM where is scorching ray found?
fruits and vegetables
02-18-04, 11:48 PM the PHB.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-19-04, 08:07 AM Or the SRD. Check my sig. (Scorching Ray is 2nd level.)
SiegeSage
02-19-04, 01:22 PM The instant Metamagic ability is nowhere near as useful as the -1 level for metamagicing part is. You can become incredibly powerful by using persistent spell at only +3 levels. That allows you to have spells of up to 6th level last 24 hours. That gives you things like Analyze dewomer, mage armor, GMW, antimagic field, Mestils Acid sheath and many, MANY more. For a very good list I'd suggest looking at this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108949&highlight=persistant+spell) , which goes in depth on persitent spell for wizards. Energy Admixture allows you to double the damage your spells do for +3 levels.

If you are using 3.0 then stack the hell out of empower spell.
KShaver
02-19-04, 04:41 PM Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade
[Edit: I just thought about a Maximized, Empowered, Twinned Scorching Ray... 8th level spell that deals 144 + 12d6 damage (if you succeed at all your touch attacks; potential of 216 damage to a single target, no save...). I'd go for that. ;)]

All metamagic feats apply to the original spell so the damage would work like this:

First casting of scorching ray - empowered and maximized
Ray 1 = 24+4d6/2 (round down)
Ray 2 = 24+4d6/2 (round down)
Ray 3 = 24+4d6/2 (round down)
The twinned spell
Ray 1 = 4d6
Ray 2 = 4d6
Ray 3 = 4d6
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-19-04, 04:47 PM Originally posted by KShaver
All metamagic feats apply to the original spell so the damage would work like this:
Ah, you are correct. That helps keep the damage insanity to a manageable level, at any rate.
danielinthewolvesden
02-19-04, 06:50 PM Scorching Ray is 3.5. Incantrix is 3.0. Combining the two is munchkin.
Heron_Marked_Blade
02-19-04, 07:02 PM Originally posted by danielinthewolvesden
Scorching Ray is 3.5. Incantrix is 3.0. Combining the two is munchkin. :uh-huh: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting is 3.0. Core D&D rules are 3.5. Combining the two is munchkin. :nonono:

Please.
Oberoni
02-19-04, 07:06 PM Daniel apparently burned all of his 3e books the day 3.5 came out.

They sure look like relatively compatable systems to me, but I'm almost certainly just seeing things.
danielinthewolvesden
02-19-04, 07:30 PM Originally posted by Oberoni
They sure look like relatively compatable systems to me, but I'm almost certainly just seeing things.

They are just that- "relatively compatable". Not 100% compatable- otherwise why even put out a 3.5- not to mention the CW- and the soon to be printed Players Guide to Faerun, etc?

Combining some things from the two different systems will cause great broken imbalances- like the "Forsaker with a Vow of Poverty", for example. Many other combos will be OK.

But when you see a combo that is very very powerful- stop to think first.... did they intend for this to combine in that way?
Oberoni
02-19-04, 11:38 PM But there's ludicrous power combinations I can make in 3.0, and there's ludicrous power combinations I can make in 3.5.

So if that's your reason for not mixing 3.0 and 3.5, it should presumably also be your reason for not playing 3.0 or 3.5.

P. S. a VoP Forsaker still can't teleport with the party, so he's still just as useless as he was before. Now he's useless and ultra-powerful, much like a Super-Saiyan rock would be, if one can conceive of such a creation.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Link182 02-18-04, 09:00 PM	I recently made a wizard/incantratrix 8/10. Considering all the metamagic options, can anyone tell me about some killer spell combo's or metamagic options they;ve chosen for this class? Or any other spellcaster for that matter.
Mandemon 02-18-04, 09:26 PM	I haven't actually made up an incantatrix (as described in Mages of Faerun), basically because I don't like having to give up two or more spell schools. It does seem, however, that you would want to load up on metamagic feats if you want to take maximum advantage of the the Instant Metamagic class feature, especially the more powerful feats that are useful in combat. Twin Spell is better than Twin Ray, and Persistent Spell is normally used on spells cast outside of combat. Quicken Spell, Widen Spell, Maximize Spell, Empower Spell (stacks), and Heighten Spell would also be appropriate. Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration could also be useful. I tend to max out on my prime requisite's ability score and find a way to use that score instead of other abilities on various base stats. For example, a wizard would take a level of duelist, while a sorceror would take a few levels of paladin or holy liberator, assuming I can find a way to get the prerequisites without losing a lot of magical ability.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-18-04, 10:34 PM	Regarding the Instant Metamagic ability, I've found Heighten to be very useful to boost save DCs. Quicken is also useful in a pinch, or an instant Maximize. Improved Metamagic: I tend to prepare a lot more Quickened spells. Twin Spell is a useful feat as well (when used with direct damage spells such as Fireball or Chain Lightning), as is Widen Spell for those area of effect spells. I'd strongly encourage you to take two Archmage levels. Mastery of Shaping is an incredibly useful ability, as is Mastery of Elements. Spell Power got a bit nerfed in 3.5, or I'd suggest taking that as your second high arcana ability. Consider using an 8th-level slot to prepare a Maximized Twinned Fireball (Improved Metamagic reduces the level of each metamagic feat by one), or a 9th-level slot to prepare an Empowered Widened Twinned Fireball. That's a pretty big area of effect (40'-radius), potentially dealing 30d6 damage. Combine that with Mastery of Elements (to choose an elemental damage your targets are weak to; i.e. cold for fire creatures, etc.) and/or Mastery of Shaping to protect your party members, and life is suddenly a lot of fun. :D [Edit: I just thought about a Maximized, Empowered, Twinned Scorching Ray... 8th level spell that deals 144 + 12d6 damage (if you succeed at all your touch attacks; potential of 216 damage to a single target, no save...). I'd go for that. ;)]
Link182 02-18-04, 11:12 PM	Cool. I'll check out the scorching ray. Thanks!
Link182 02-18-04, 11:46 PM	where is scorching ray found?
fruits and vegetables 02-18-04, 11:48 PM	the PHB.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-19-04, 08:07 AM	Or the SRD. Check my sig. (Scorching Ray is 2nd level.)
SiegeSage 02-19-04, 01:22 PM	The instant Metamagic ability is nowhere near as useful as the -1 level for metamagicing part is. You can become incredibly powerful by using persistent spell at only +3 levels. That allows you to have spells of up to 6th level last 24 hours. That gives you things like Analyze dewomer, mage armor, GMW, antimagic field, Mestils Acid sheath and many, MANY more. For a very good list I'd suggest looking at this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108949&highlight=persistant+spell) , which goes in depth on persitent spell for wizards. Energy Admixture allows you to double the damage your spells do for +3 levels. If you are using 3.0 then stack the hell out of empower spell.
KShaver 02-19-04, 04:41 PM	Originally posted by Heron_Marked_Blade [Edit: I just thought about a Maximized, Empowered, Twinned Scorching Ray... 8th level spell that deals 144 + 12d6 damage (if you succeed at all your touch attacks; potential of 216 damage to a single target, no save...). I'd go for that. ;)] All metamagic feats apply to the original spell so the damage would work like this: First casting of scorching ray - empowered and maximized Ray 1 = 24+4d6/2 (round down) Ray 2 = 24+4d6/2 (round down) Ray 3 = 24+4d6/2 (round down) The twinned spell Ray 1 = 4d6 Ray 2 = 4d6 Ray 3 = 4d6
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-19-04, 04:47 PM	Originally posted by KShaver All metamagic feats apply to the original spell so the damage would work like this: Ah, you are correct. That helps keep the damage insanity to a manageable level, at any rate.
danielinthewolvesden 02-19-04, 06:50 PM	Scorching Ray is 3.5. Incantrix is 3.0. Combining the two is munchkin.
Heron_Marked_Blade 02-19-04, 07:02 PM	Originally posted by danielinthewolvesden Scorching Ray is 3.5. Incantrix is 3.0. Combining the two is munchkin. :uh-huh: Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting is 3.0. Core D&D rules are 3.5. Combining the two is munchkin. :nonono: Please.
Oberoni 02-19-04, 07:06 PM	Daniel apparently burned all of his 3e books the day 3.5 came out. They sure look like relatively compatable systems to me, but I'm almost certainly just seeing things.
danielinthewolvesden 02-19-04, 07:30 PM	Originally posted by Oberoni They sure look like relatively compatable systems to me, but I'm almost certainly just seeing things. They are just that- "relatively compatable". Not 100% compatable- otherwise why even put out a 3.5- not to mention the CW- and the soon to be printed Players Guide to Faerun, etc? Combining some things from the two different systems will cause great broken imbalances- like the "Forsaker with a Vow of Poverty", for example. Many other combos will be OK. But when you see a combo that is very very powerful- stop to think first.... did they intend for this to combine in that way?
Oberoni 02-19-04, 11:38 PM	But there's ludicrous power combinations I can make in 3.0, and there's ludicrous power combinations I can make in 3.5. So if that's your reason for not mixing 3.0 and 3.5, it should presumably also be your reason for not playing 3.0 or 3.5. P. S. a VoP Forsaker still can't teleport with the party, so he's still just as useless as he was before. Now he's useless and ultra-powerful, much like a Super-Saiyan rock would be, if one can conceive of such a creation.