Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 04:39 PM	Couldn't any player with Handle Animal as a class skill train an infinite number of animal companions? If so, why hasn't anyone driven their DM insane with this before?
gavalicks 04-27-05, 04:47 PM	I have driven my Dm mad with 10th lvl druid and 80 sparrows, Each sparrow possess the weapon Finesse Feat, and the new one that makes them not provoke an Attack of Opportunity by entering an opponents square. This has driven him mad in two ways 1. I only use them for assist attack or defense which they little critters only have to make a AC 10. And gives me a +80 Defense in Hand to Hand and +80 on attacks against the target. 2. They can each do touch attack, for 1 or 2 points of damage attack of the birds. He has effectivly started to go sparrow hunting, upon which I go to the nearest forest or town and recruit more of these fine feather friends. The limit by the way for how many you can handle with animal Hanndling is limited to the number of chrisma bonus in HD, but 1/8 hit dice means 8 for the price of 1.
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 04:51 PM	I have driven my Dm mad with 10th lvl druid and 80 sparrows, Each sparrow possess the weapon Finesse Feat, and the new one that makes them not provoke an Attack of Opportunity by entering an opponents square. This has driven him mad in two ways 1. I only use them for assist attack or defense which they little critters only have to make a AC 10. And gives me a +80 Defense in Hand to Hand and +80 on attacks against the target. 2. They can each do touch attack, for 1 or 2 points of damage attack of the birds. He has effectivly started to go sparrow hunting, upon which I go to the nearest forest or town and recruit more of these fine feather friends. The limit by the way for how many you can handle with animal Hanndling is limited to the number of chrisma bonus in HD, but 1/8 hit dice means 8 for the price of 1. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please post the entering square with AoO feat!
fallabel 04-27-05, 04:59 PM	Seems like a well-placed fireball would take out most of those birds in a hurry...
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 05:08 PM	Seems like a well-placed fireball would take out most of those birds in a hurry... Ooooooh! You should give them all flyby attack, a la Birds!
RoseWild 04-27-05, 05:23 PM	"I have driven my Dm mad with 10th lvl druid and 80 sparrows" How are you getting 80 animal companions?
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 05:25 PM	"I have driven my Dm mad with 10th lvl druid and 80 sparrows" How are getting 80 animal companions? Why, trained through Handle Animal, of course!
eudas 04-27-05, 05:32 PM	they're not Animal Companions per the Druid Animal Companion rules (unless maybe you're playing 3.0), but a character with a high enough Handle Animal (or a whole lot of spare time for training) could have a whole zoo following him around if they're all trained well enough. But, yes, any character who becomes famous for the technique of using his trained animals to help him win fights is going to find his enemies adapting their fighting techniques to include area of effect spells, which are pretty much guaranteed to wipe out 99% of all regular animals in no time flat, no matter how well trained they are. eudas
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 05:35 PM	Where it the thing about the HD worth of Charisma located? I couldn't find it.
eudas 04-27-05, 05:48 PM	Where it the thing about the HD worth of Charisma located? I couldn't find it. Max HD of Animal Companions was based on Druid level, IIRC, and it was only in 3.0. 3.5 changed Animal Companions (and got rid of the animal friendship spell) so that it was more in-line with how Special Mounts and Familiars were handled (i.e. 1 per character). But, just regular old trained animals? there's no max -- how many can you afford to feed and house? start up your own barnum & bailey's circus... eudas
Insane Pixie 04-27-05, 05:53 PM	Max HD of Animal Companions was based on Druid level, IIRC, and it was only in 3.0. 3.5 changed Animal Companions (and got rid of the animal friendship spell) so that it was more in-line with how Special Mounts and Familiars were handled (i.e. 1 per character). But, just regular old trained animals? there's no max -- how many can you afford to feed and house? start up your own barnum & bailey's circus... eudas I see a...a wagon...and...and feed...hmmmmm... Time to make my DM cry!
eudas 04-27-05, 06:10 PM	just remember to keep them away from fireballs, cones of cold, cloudkill spells, etc... eudas
The_Fan 04-27-05, 06:12 PM	Were I the DM I'd save myself a lot of trouble by simply making it a swarm by that point. Give it the stats of a bat swarm, but without the wounding or blindsight.
Szat 04-27-05, 06:27 PM	Yeah don't that many tiny creatures become a swarm and gain swarm traits?
Gryllmyre 04-27-05, 06:35 PM	Sounds like someone was able to bs their DM past boundaries of reasonability. After all, if a DM can't argue against what you're doing, then there is no reason to not be able to do it, right? Except for maybe having a DM that knows what reasonable limits are.
Anthus_Longblade 04-27-05, 07:08 PM	From the SRD: Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat knows the tricks attack, down, and stay. Training an animal for fighting takes three weeks.Guarding (DC 20): An animal trained to guard knows the tricks attack, defend, down, and guard. Training an animal for guarding takes four weeks.Hunting (DC 20): An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track. Training an animal for hunting takes six weeks. Theoretically, you could train an infinite number of animals to follow you around, but training even a few takes a long time.
fallabel 04-27-05, 09:00 PM	Fighting (DC 20): An animal trained to engage in combat knows the tricks attack, down, and stay. Training an animal for fighting takes three weeks.Guarding (DC 20): An animal trained to guard knows the tricks attack, defend, down, and guard. Training an animal for guarding takes four weeks.Hunting (DC 20): An animal trained for hunting knows the tricks attack, down, fetch, heel, seek, and track. Training an animal for hunting takes six weeks. And that says nothing about knowing how to "assist another"...
MarkB 04-28-05, 05:55 AM	And just remember that these are still technically DM-controlled NPC creatures. PC: "Okay, I send my bison in with a gore attack, have the tiger circle around to flank, then start the sparrow swarm divebombing for Assist Another." DM: "Sorry, your tiger has eaten your bison and is sleeping it off, and your sparrows have flown south for winter."
gavalicks 04-28-05, 08:24 AM	The Feat only works for Small or smaller creatures and its in Races of the Wild, However at this time I don't have the book with me so I don't know the name of the feat exactly. Also Races of Wild(Definetly) and complete Adventure(I think) goes into more in depht about animal handling, and training, that were I got the idea to use assist attack, defend, and aid ally. However yes you are right a well placed fireball could be dangerous. So I have had to change tactics to no big deal. Know the little sparrows carry acorns enchanchted with fire Seed spell. No save for target and no spell resistance, to make things worst I took the two new feats in Sandstorm that makes creatures immune to fire damage still recieve half damage. (Note my DM allows retro allocation of class lvl or feats for only new books comes out, he reasons that if the new book was out when you created your character you would have chosen them instead of what you currently had.) I decided that a bomb brigade, may solve this problem making things more diffcult. He suggest a Druid was not suppose to damage the forest and burning it down was a direct violation of this, I said I know that why I willl be surrounding the battle field with well placed walls making sure the damage to the forest if any will be minimum, plus I had a few water spells just in case. Not liking that or my attempts to try and create a bag that can do it for me, the DM has made it very diffcult to get the bag or allow me to make thorugh craft wondeous items, I need to make a bag that allow me to create fire seeds instantly by placing acrons in, or make them 1/day for free. To be more effective even as if now I can only create 20 acorns in three rounds with a quicken spell rod. He did not like the idea that with this bag I could use create food (acorns) and have that bag charge up. I suggest that if he likes for a less price we could limit it to only about 20 acorns or 40 berries. -He said he will get bakc to me- Here is for hoping.