Inventions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Inventions? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zen5887
10-08-07, 04:36 AM So I played a gnome inventor but he died (funny story) before he got to really do anything so I've made another one (who is a fair bit better) and im hoping to use some nifty inventions like;

Shotgun Crossbow: A modifyed repeating crossbow that fires the shots at the same time

Flamethrower: A modifyed crossbow that shoots out a cone of alchemest fire (short range, five maybe ten feet)

Exploding dagger: A dagger that when you stab someone and twist the hilt, creates a spark blowing up the blade

My question is - how does one create these things. I've got a fair bit of weaponsmithing, Bowmaking, Blacksmithing and engeneering

Appart from the materials needed what else do I have to do?

Cheers

- Lachlan:)
Prator_the_Legendary
10-08-07, 03:58 PM It would help if you actually had the skills/feats required to craft exotic weapons,because that's technically what you're doing. I imagine crafting the prototypes would probably take 2-3 times as long and cost more than reproducing the finished product as well...
DrMorganes
10-09-07, 10:22 AM The biggest issue here is that the rules don't support the concept of "inventions". Magical items, sure: Your "flamethrower" could be nothing more than a wand of Burning Hands. In fact, the Artificer class essentially covers the role of the inventor in D&D.

That said, I absolutely LOVE it when my players try to do something outside the box. As always, when trying something new it is a good practice to use existing rules, where applicable. There are already rules in place for researching new spells and crafting magic items. I would use those as a starting point for time and cost. Let's face it: it takes time and money - and generally quite a lot of both - to create something brand new that works. I would use Knowledge (Engineering) in place of Spellcraft. As written Knowledge (Engineering) mostly refers to large-scale projects like bridges and catapults, but I think it translates well into figuring out how to make a device that sprays alchemists fire or shoots multiple crossbow bolts in a 5' spread. I suggest using an "Invention Level" that is analogous to Spell Level. This will help place the relative power of the invention.

Anyone with the appropriate skill can create the plans for an Invention, so replace Caster Level with Character Level. Invention Levels are fixed. Unlike magic items, it is not possible to increase the effective level of an Invention by choosing to use a higher Caster Level. A new Invention must be researched to increase the effectiveness of an Invention.

Inventors are always considered proficient with their creations.

Ferinstance...

Your Shotgun Crossbow could be considered a magical weapon that imparts the Manyshot feat on its user. Except that the Invention is not magical, and the effect doesn't scale with the user's level. Since the game is balanced vs "best case" scenarios, we'll consider a Level 6 Fighter in this case as the "best case" for getting Manyshot as soon as possible. This would put a 2-bolt Shotgun Crossbow as a Level 3 Invention. I'm not sure yet how the pricing would work; I can't seem to locate the costs for adding a Feat to a magical item.

In any event, I'd probably base the cost off the Wondrous Items chart rather than the Magical Weapons chart, and reduce the cost by some factor. The mechanical nature of the shotgun crossbow means that its abilities don't scale with the user's BAB (unlike the actual Manyshot feat). It must be crafted to fire 2, 3, or 4 bolts (with the Invention Level increasing at each step). Its further inhibited by a longer reload time, which increases as the number of bolts increases.

So...

Shotgun Crossbow

A shotgun crossbow is a masterwork light crossbow able to fire two bolts at the same time. Shotgun crossbows are harder to aim than normal crossbows; using one applies a -4 penalty to the attack roll. Each bolt uses the same attack roll, and is fired at the same target. Precision and/or critical hit applies only to the first bolt. Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately to each bolt fired.

Reloading a shotgun crossbow takes longer than normal, requiring a full round to reload (or a Move Action is the user has the Rapid Reload feat).

Shotgun crossbows are mechanical in design and function normally within the effect of an Antimagic Field, though any additional magical enhancements are suppressed normally.
DrMorganes
10-09-07, 10:24 AM Perhaps you could work with your DM to create a new Inventor base class to facilitate this new mechanic... Inventors would be proficient with their own creations, but they'd be considered Exotic items for everyone else.

**suddenly has a vision of Agatha Hetrodyne (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com) running around Greyhawk**
metalmayhem80110
10-09-07, 04:15 PM There is a class in the OGL steampunk book that does a lot of inventing. If you're dm will let you use them, go for it :D Don't quote me, but I think they hav some rules for inventing stuff.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zen5887 10-08-07, 04:36 AM	So I played a gnome inventor but he died (funny story) before he got to really do anything so I've made another one (who is a fair bit better) and im hoping to use some nifty inventions like; Shotgun Crossbow: A modifyed repeating crossbow that fires the shots at the same time Flamethrower: A modifyed crossbow that shoots out a cone of alchemest fire (short range, five maybe ten feet) Exploding dagger: A dagger that when you stab someone and twist the hilt, creates a spark blowing up the blade My question is - how does one create these things. I've got a fair bit of weaponsmithing, Bowmaking, Blacksmithing and engeneering Appart from the materials needed what else do I have to do? Cheers - Lachlan:)
Prator_the_Legendary 10-08-07, 03:58 PM	It would help if you actually had the skills/feats required to craft exotic weapons,because that's technically what you're doing. I imagine crafting the prototypes would probably take 2-3 times as long and cost more than reproducing the finished product as well...
DrMorganes 10-09-07, 10:22 AM	The biggest issue here is that the rules don't support the concept of "inventions". Magical items, sure: Your "flamethrower" could be nothing more than a wand of Burning Hands. In fact, the Artificer class essentially covers the role of the inventor in D&D. That said, I absolutely LOVE it when my players try to do something outside the box. As always, when trying something new it is a good practice to use existing rules, where applicable. There are already rules in place for researching new spells and crafting magic items. I would use those as a starting point for time and cost. Let's face it: it takes time and money - and generally quite a lot of both - to create something brand new that works. I would use Knowledge (Engineering) in place of Spellcraft. As written Knowledge (Engineering) mostly refers to large-scale projects like bridges and catapults, but I think it translates well into figuring out how to make a device that sprays alchemists fire or shoots multiple crossbow bolts in a 5' spread. I suggest using an "Invention Level" that is analogous to Spell Level. This will help place the relative power of the invention. Anyone with the appropriate skill can create the plans for an Invention, so replace Caster Level with Character Level. Invention Levels are fixed. Unlike magic items, it is not possible to increase the effective level of an Invention by choosing to use a higher Caster Level. A new Invention must be researched to increase the effectiveness of an Invention. Inventors are always considered proficient with their creations. Ferinstance... Your Shotgun Crossbow could be considered a magical weapon that imparts the Manyshot feat on its user. Except that the Invention is not magical, and the effect doesn't scale with the user's level. Since the game is balanced vs "best case" scenarios, we'll consider a Level 6 Fighter in this case as the "best case" for getting Manyshot as soon as possible. This would put a 2-bolt Shotgun Crossbow as a Level 3 Invention. I'm not sure yet how the pricing would work; I can't seem to locate the costs for adding a Feat to a magical item. In any event, I'd probably base the cost off the Wondrous Items chart rather than the Magical Weapons chart, and reduce the cost by some factor. The mechanical nature of the shotgun crossbow means that its abilities don't scale with the user's BAB (unlike the actual Manyshot feat). It must be crafted to fire 2, 3, or 4 bolts (with the Invention Level increasing at each step). Its further inhibited by a longer reload time, which increases as the number of bolts increases. So... Shotgun Crossbow A shotgun crossbow is a masterwork light crossbow able to fire two bolts at the same time. Shotgun crossbows are harder to aim than normal crossbows; using one applies a -4 penalty to the attack roll. Each bolt uses the same attack roll, and is fired at the same target. Precision and/or critical hit applies only to the first bolt. Damage reduction and other resistances apply separately to each bolt fired. Reloading a shotgun crossbow takes longer than normal, requiring a full round to reload (or a Move Action is the user has the Rapid Reload feat). Shotgun crossbows are mechanical in design and function normally within the effect of an Antimagic Field, though any additional magical enhancements are suppressed normally.
DrMorganes 10-09-07, 10:24 AM	Perhaps you could work with your DM to create a new Inventor base class to facilitate this new mechanic... Inventors would be proficient with their own creations, but they'd be considered Exotic items for everyone else. suddenly has a vision of Agatha Hetrodyne (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com) running around Greyhawk
metalmayhem80110 10-09-07, 04:15 PM	There is a class in the OGL steampunk book that does a lot of inventing. If you're dm will let you use them, go for it :D Don't quote me, but I think they hav some rules for inventing stuff.