Invisible! What do I do?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Invisible! What do I do?! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nerdkid7
06-03-06, 09:57 AM What checks could my group do to possibly go against someone who's invisible?

I'm pretty sure you can't do a spot check (as they are invisible...); a listen check, and possibly a ranger's tracking (by scent or ...searching for footsteps?) could work.

The ranger in our group didn't do any sort of tracking in our last game. But our DM seemed to allow Detect Magic to be used to find an invisible sorcerer.

Would this be right--using Detect Magic to possibly find an invisible spellcaster? How exactly do you detect & attack a invisible person (when the group has no one capable of dispelling magic)? Do listen checks (and the ranger's tracking abilities) give you simply a general area where the invisible person is located or an exact location? Does Detect Magic do the same?
Derren S.
06-03-06, 10:08 AM To pinpoint him by listen check you need to beat a DC of what you would normally need to listen him + 20.
Detect magic orks but it very bad. You need to concentrate for 3 rounds before you know in which square he is and when the enemy leaves the cone of detection, you have to start again.

Try to throw around some flour or best get See Invisibility, glitterdust or faery fire.
Witch
06-03-06, 10:11 AM The ranger in our group didn't do any sort of tracking in our last game. But our DM seemed to allow Detect Magic to be used to find an invisible sorcerer.

Would this be right--using Detect Magic to possibly find an invisible spellcaster? How exactly do you detect & attack a invisible person (when the group has no one capable of dispelling magic)? Do listen checks (and the ranger's tracking abilities) give you simply a general area where the invisible person is located or an exact location? Does Detect Magic do the same?
The person keeps his concealment, but you know in what square he is in - but only if you concentrate for 3 rounds.

The same goes for spotting by a spot check (I'm not sure how high, but it's possible) and a listen check.
Derren S.
06-03-06, 10:16 AM The spot check is somewhere in the 40 I think. You have to check the epic rules for that.
The rangers track skill doesn't work as it can't pinpoint the enemies location.
Witch
06-03-06, 10:18 AM Spot
The character can pinpoint the location of an invisible creature, or detect an illusion with a visual component.

DC Task
20 Notice presence of active invisible creature
30 Notice presence of unmoving, living invisible creature
40 Notice presence of inanimate invisible object
40 Notice presence of unmoving, unliving invisible creature

(From the SRD on Epic Skills, but nothing says a non-epic character can't attempt these)
Derren S.
06-03-06, 10:21 AM You left out the important part. Those DCs are for detecting here is someone invisible in the area. For pinpointing him you add +20 to the DC.
nephtis
06-03-06, 10:38 AM WHat kind of characters do you have?
Has your ranger an animal companion? A wolf by any chance? A druid that could turn into an animal with the scent ability? (wolf, even bear got it) I think there's even a spell that gives you scent in one of the 'Complete XY' books.

Scent is rather usefull against invisibility. Basically it has a reach (depending on wind and kind of smell).
You know 'something' is there and it takes a move action to find out the direction. When you get within 5' I think you can pinpoint it anyway...
Zherog
06-03-06, 10:44 AM For pinpointing the invisible target, you add 20 to the target's Hide check, not to those DCs listed for the epic stuff.

The best ways of dealing with invisibility are, of course, spells. See invisibility, glitterdust, and invisibility purge are all very good counters.
utilitarian
06-03-06, 11:33 AM Blindsense, Blindsight, and Teramorse will all help you weed out this invisible assailant, if you have access to them. (a Bat animal companion or familiar will give you Blindsense fairly easily, or get one using Summon Nature's Ally)
stealth_monkey
06-03-06, 11:38 AM In 2 dimensions, an invisible creature is pretty hard to locate, but it can be done. Bags of flour are a cheap, non-magical way. I also believe a wizard with craft wonderous items can forge goggles of see invisibility for around 2000g (can't remember exactly, but something around that figure). However, without some magical means of detecting it, you're going to be screwed over if you add a third dimension. There is no greater danger to a badly-prepared low-level party than a greater invisible, flying sorcerer
sneak_Blast
06-03-06, 04:42 PM To locate an invisible creature, a person can make a spot check vs. their hide check to locate what square the creature is in. (not see them) The creature gets a +20 bonus on this check.

To hear an invisible creature, it is just like trying to hear a normal creature. Look up the rules for that.

If a person locates the square an invisible creature is in, the creature still has 50% concealment, but now the person knows where the invisible creature is.
Derren S.
06-03-06, 04:46 PM The creature gets a +20 bonus on this check.

Actually he gets +40.
+20 is only for detecting the presence on an invisible creature. Pinpointing its 5 ft. square is another +20, same with listen to pinpoint its location.
Insane Pixie
06-03-06, 04:58 PM Fire.
metamind
06-03-06, 06:53 PM I've heard tale of a spot check (DC = regular circumstances +40 for invisibility) that can be made to see the invisible.
hughman
06-03-06, 08:40 PM Earth Sense in RoS gives you detect invis out to 20' so long as they are touching the ground. It's a bit weak, but it's always on. It won't tell you the exact square, but from there AEs become useful.

Hughman.
Judging Eagle
06-03-06, 09:56 PM I'm gonna list it easily.

1. Read the Invisibilty spell entry next time.

Stand still +40 hide

Move +20 Hide

You could still be seen if you move close enough to someone.

Also, don't forget that every 10' = -1 on spot and listen checks. So, 20' = -2, 100' = -10, being further from people makes if harder for someone to be heard, as that is logical.
Bob Loblaw
06-03-06, 10:01 PM Some other things you can do:

Use smoke or mist. You should be able to get some idea of where they are by the hole left over
Cover the floor in water. You should only need a couple of inches. They will leave holes where their feet are
Try using things that cover an area like nets, explosives, fireballs, etc
Try detect spells. While you won't be able to pinpoint the actual location, you should be able to figure out something
Hold your action until you are attacked. You should have a pretty good idea where they are attacking from

Just a cfew ideas that may help. You will probably still have to deal with the miss chance, but at least you will have a hit chance.
FeceMan
06-04-06, 01:17 AM (From the SRD on Epic Skills, but nothing says a non-epic character can't attempt these)
Also, invisibility gives a +20 bonus to hide (or +40 if not moving). I assume those DCs are assuming no ranks in hide.
Sphyre
06-05-06, 12:19 AM Also, invisibility gives a +20 bonus to hide (or +40 if not moving). I assume those DCs are assuming no ranks in hide.

I would think it's assuming the creature is not actively hiding, because Dex and size still give bonuses to hide checks even if the creature doesn't have any ranks.
Nerdkid7
06-07-06, 07:32 PM oops meant to post this on the main board
tharivol266
06-08-06, 01:25 AM if there is no way to see them make it so they cant see you. smake stick, fog clod, if you can stand it cloud kill. w/e
CaoSlayer
06-08-06, 05:27 AM Some other things you can do:

Use smoke or mist. You should be able to get some idea of where they are by the hole left over

Just a cfew ideas that may help. You will probably still have to deal with the miss chance, but at least you will have a hit chance.

This one it is specially good because ever if you cant locate him, he now cant see you also, you are in equal conditions.

Mental note: read the whole thread before posting.
Missing Minds
06-08-06, 11:32 AM Ah, invisablity again.

The problem with Faerie Fire is the fact its only a 5' spread. You can only target about 4 squares. Doesn't help a whole lot if you don't really have any clue.

Someone really needs to create a sticky silly string spell. Spew webbing like material that won't stop anything, blind any, etc. but will just stick to objects. Have it spew in a cone shape, that can be continueous providing the caster makes the concentration check that way you could hose the whole room in a matter of 3 or 4 rounds. Same effect as dusting the area with flour, only if the invise is hit directly you know exactly where they are. If they just step in the stuff you have a nice spot check to notice the fact of the dragging string.

Too bad to make it "realistic" you can't just make it simple. Have to have a clause for everything.
Derren S.
06-08-06, 11:59 AM Or could you simply use Glitterdust.
Missing Minds
06-08-06, 12:06 PM I always forget about glitterdust. Thanks for the reminder, Derren. *goes to read up on it*

16 squares. Even better. Then again the "see invisable" spell would probably be better yet. However, something I never realized about glitterdust is that you can actually blind opponents with it. nice.

You know... we have no idea what spells and magics are avaible to the OP at the moment he needs to know. Not to mention most of us really didn't answer the OPs orginal questions either. Just different work arounds.
SilverShockwave
06-08-06, 12:17 PM I find that funny, though, because my group got away with finding a third demension invisable flying sorcerer by getting a bag of non-flamable powder(I forget what it was exactly), put it in a bag, threw it up in the air, and the mage hit with a fireball, causing the powder to do everywhere! Everything including the party was covered, but we found that blasted sorcerer and effectively, pwnd him!

It may not have been entirely rule valid, but logically, it wasn't such a bad methode.
interpretivechaos
06-08-06, 01:56 PM One of the most generally undercosted items (3.0) is Blindfold of true darkness. 60 ft blindsight for 9,000. (Arms and Equipment guide).

Splash weapons are nice too. Tanglefoot bags stick them in place. One amusing thing to think about is if they get pegged by alchemists fire and catch on fire, they'll give off illumination. If your DM lets you, the splash weapons that stick to them will give them away.
Whisper_Swiftblade
06-09-06, 04:59 PM in my game we house rule that invisible things can see each other.

if you are fighting invisible enimies you may want to cast magical darkness to even the odds, also blind-fighting is indespensible for this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nerdkid7 06-03-06, 09:57 AM	What checks could my group do to possibly go against someone who's invisible? I'm pretty sure you can't do a spot check (as they are invisible...); a listen check, and possibly a ranger's tracking (by scent or ...searching for footsteps?) could work. The ranger in our group didn't do any sort of tracking in our last game. But our DM seemed to allow Detect Magic to be used to find an invisible sorcerer. Would this be right--using Detect Magic to possibly find an invisible spellcaster? How exactly do you detect & attack a invisible person (when the group has no one capable of dispelling magic)? Do listen checks (and the ranger's tracking abilities) give you simply a general area where the invisible person is located or an exact location? Does Detect Magic do the same?
Derren S. 06-03-06, 10:08 AM	To pinpoint him by listen check you need to beat a DC of what you would normally need to listen him + 20. Detect magic orks but it very bad. You need to concentrate for 3 rounds before you know in which square he is and when the enemy leaves the cone of detection, you have to start again. Try to throw around some flour or best get See Invisibility, glitterdust or faery fire.
Witch 06-03-06, 10:11 AM	The ranger in our group didn't do any sort of tracking in our last game. But our DM seemed to allow Detect Magic to be used to find an invisible sorcerer. Would this be right--using Detect Magic to possibly find an invisible spellcaster? How exactly do you detect & attack a invisible person (when the group has no one capable of dispelling magic)? Do listen checks (and the ranger's tracking abilities) give you simply a general area where the invisible person is located or an exact location? Does Detect Magic do the same? The person keeps his concealment, but you know in what square he is in - but only if you concentrate for 3 rounds. The same goes for spotting by a spot check (I'm not sure how high, but it's possible) and a listen check.
Derren S. 06-03-06, 10:16 AM	The spot check is somewhere in the 40 I think. You have to check the epic rules for that. The rangers track skill doesn't work as it can't pinpoint the enemies location.
Witch 06-03-06, 10:18 AM	Spot The character can pinpoint the location of an invisible creature, or detect an illusion with a visual component. DC Task 20 Notice presence of active invisible creature 30 Notice presence of unmoving, living invisible creature 40 Notice presence of inanimate invisible object 40 Notice presence of unmoving, unliving invisible creature (From the SRD on Epic Skills, but nothing says a non-epic character can't attempt these)
Derren S. 06-03-06, 10:21 AM	You left out the important part. Those DCs are for detecting here is someone invisible in the area. For pinpointing him you add +20 to the DC.
nephtis 06-03-06, 10:38 AM	WHat kind of characters do you have? Has your ranger an animal companion? A wolf by any chance? A druid that could turn into an animal with the scent ability? (wolf, even bear got it) I think there's even a spell that gives you scent in one of the 'Complete XY' books. Scent is rather usefull against invisibility. Basically it has a reach (depending on wind and kind of smell). You know 'something' is there and it takes a move action to find out the direction. When you get within 5' I think you can pinpoint it anyway...
Zherog 06-03-06, 10:44 AM	For pinpointing the invisible target, you add 20 to the target's Hide check, not to those DCs listed for the epic stuff. The best ways of dealing with invisibility are, of course, spells. See invisibility, glitterdust, and invisibility purge are all very good counters.
utilitarian 06-03-06, 11:33 AM	Blindsense, Blindsight, and Teramorse will all help you weed out this invisible assailant, if you have access to them. (a Bat animal companion or familiar will give you Blindsense fairly easily, or get one using Summon Nature's Ally)
stealth_monkey 06-03-06, 11:38 AM	In 2 dimensions, an invisible creature is pretty hard to locate, but it can be done. Bags of flour are a cheap, non-magical way. I also believe a wizard with craft wonderous items can forge goggles of see invisibility for around 2000g (can't remember exactly, but something around that figure). However, without some magical means of detecting it, you're going to be screwed over if you add a third dimension. There is no greater danger to a badly-prepared low-level party than a greater invisible, flying sorcerer
sneak_Blast 06-03-06, 04:42 PM	To locate an invisible creature, a person can make a spot check vs. their hide check to locate what square the creature is in. (not see them) The creature gets a +20 bonus on this check. To hear an invisible creature, it is just like trying to hear a normal creature. Look up the rules for that. If a person locates the square an invisible creature is in, the creature still has 50% concealment, but now the person knows where the invisible creature is.
Derren S. 06-03-06, 04:46 PM	The creature gets a +20 bonus on this check. Actually he gets +40. +20 is only for detecting the presence on an invisible creature. Pinpointing its 5 ft. square is another +20, same with listen to pinpoint its location.
Insane Pixie 06-03-06, 04:58 PM	Fire.
metamind 06-03-06, 06:53 PM	I've heard tale of a spot check (DC = regular circumstances +40 for invisibility) that can be made to see the invisible.
hughman 06-03-06, 08:40 PM	Earth Sense in RoS gives you detect invis out to 20' so long as they are touching the ground. It's a bit weak, but it's always on. It won't tell you the exact square, but from there AEs become useful. Hughman.
Judging Eagle 06-03-06, 09:56 PM	I'm gonna list it easily. 1. Read the Invisibilty spell entry next time. Stand still +40 hide Move +20 Hide You could still be seen if you move close enough to someone. Also, don't forget that every 10' = -1 on spot and listen checks. So, 20' = -2, 100' = -10, being further from people makes if harder for someone to be heard, as that is logical.
Bob Loblaw 06-03-06, 10:01 PM	Some other things you can do: Use smoke or mist. You should be able to get some idea of where they are by the hole left over Cover the floor in water. You should only need a couple of inches. They will leave holes where their feet are Try using things that cover an area like nets, explosives, fireballs, etc Try detect spells. While you won't be able to pinpoint the actual location, you should be able to figure out something Hold your action until you are attacked. You should have a pretty good idea where they are attacking from Just a cfew ideas that may help. You will probably still have to deal with the miss chance, but at least you will have a hit chance.
FeceMan 06-04-06, 01:17 AM	(From the SRD on Epic Skills, but nothing says a non-epic character can't attempt these) Also, invisibility gives a +20 bonus to hide (or +40 if not moving). I assume those DCs are assuming no ranks in hide.
Sphyre 06-05-06, 12:19 AM	Also, invisibility gives a +20 bonus to hide (or +40 if not moving). I assume those DCs are assuming no ranks in hide. I would think it's assuming the creature is not actively hiding, because Dex and size still give bonuses to hide checks even if the creature doesn't have any ranks.
Nerdkid7 06-07-06, 07:32 PM	oops meant to post this on the main board
tharivol266 06-08-06, 01:25 AM	if there is no way to see them make it so they cant see you. smake stick, fog clod, if you can stand it cloud kill. w/e
CaoSlayer 06-08-06, 05:27 AM	Some other things you can do: Use smoke or mist. You should be able to get some idea of where they are by the hole left over Just a cfew ideas that may help. You will probably still have to deal with the miss chance, but at least you will have a hit chance. This one it is specially good because ever if you cant locate him, he now cant see you also, you are in equal conditions. Mental note: read the whole thread before posting.
Missing Minds 06-08-06, 11:32 AM	Ah, invisablity again. The problem with Faerie Fire is the fact its only a 5' spread. You can only target about 4 squares. Doesn't help a whole lot if you don't really have any clue. Someone really needs to create a sticky silly string spell. Spew webbing like material that won't stop anything, blind any, etc. but will just stick to objects. Have it spew in a cone shape, that can be continueous providing the caster makes the concentration check that way you could hose the whole room in a matter of 3 or 4 rounds. Same effect as dusting the area with flour, only if the invise is hit directly you know exactly where they are. If they just step in the stuff you have a nice spot check to notice the fact of the dragging string. Too bad to make it "realistic" you can't just make it simple. Have to have a clause for everything.
Derren S. 06-08-06, 11:59 AM	Or could you simply use Glitterdust.
Missing Minds 06-08-06, 12:06 PM	I always forget about glitterdust. Thanks for the reminder, Derren. goes to read up on it 16 squares. Even better. Then again the "see invisable" spell would probably be better yet. However, something I never realized about glitterdust is that you can actually blind opponents with it. nice. You know... we have no idea what spells and magics are avaible to the OP at the moment he needs to know. Not to mention most of us really didn't answer the OPs orginal questions either. Just different work arounds.
SilverShockwave 06-08-06, 12:17 PM	I find that funny, though, because my group got away with finding a third demension invisable flying sorcerer by getting a bag of non-flamable powder(I forget what it was exactly), put it in a bag, threw it up in the air, and the mage hit with a fireball, causing the powder to do everywhere! Everything including the party was covered, but we found that blasted sorcerer and effectively, pwnd him! It may not have been entirely rule valid, but logically, it wasn't such a bad methode.
interpretivechaos 06-08-06, 01:56 PM	One of the most generally undercosted items (3.0) is Blindfold of true darkness. 60 ft blindsight for 9,000. (Arms and Equipment guide). Splash weapons are nice too. Tanglefoot bags stick them in place. One amusing thing to think about is if they get pegged by alchemists fire and catch on fire, they'll give off illumination. If your DM lets you, the splash weapons that stick to them will give them away.
Whisper_Swiftblade 06-09-06, 04:59 PM	in my game we house rule that invisible things can see each other. if you are fighting invisible enimies you may want to cast magical darkness to even the odds, also blind-fighting is indespensible for this.