Ironclads [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Ironclads [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Scarblade
03-03-08, 06:33 PM Me and my friends are playing a Stormwreck campagin and we need a result to somehow destroy ironclads. We have a 6th lvl. Swashbuckler, 5th lvl. Rouge/ 1st lvl. Theif acrobat, and 6th lvl. druid(of the waves) that may not help you a lot, but we need some feedback on how to kill ironclads in a huge Baron v.s. Duke war. Are there any devious thinkers in these forums:smirk: !!! Please post!
Sinfire Titan
03-03-08, 07:07 PM Do you mean Ironclad Maulers, from the MM3? If so, a simple Grease spell shuts them down. Just focus on Ray spells to kill them, and their AC won't even bother you. Hell, Flying works wonders against them.
Savin
03-03-08, 07:14 PM He means ships

ships with metal armor nie unpenatrable,

im the rogue, we have a whole royal navy and then a crap load of bad little fishing boats and peasents willing to die.

were not in charge but we think that the baron has ironclads + crappy tubs of junk and a few warships, not sure on their numbers
lets say 5-10 ironclads 20-35-40 warships and lets say 20-30 crappy tubs

were not ntirely sure this is at all true, but we think so and even though he might just be blockading the town were stumped.

all of our gold is in a shop in town so we can not run, especially not now

also, some sahogen or merfolk thingys are after us.
making this quite interesting

any advice is helpful
Sinfire Titan
03-03-08, 07:41 PM In that case, try arguing that metal conducts Electricity, and use Call lighting as much as possible. Seeking Ray (PH2) gets a bonus against enemies wear all metal, and makes your rays more accurate. If you have a Wizard in the party, tell him to blast the living hell out of the enemy. This is one of a few instances where Evocation may be worth something special.

If it wasn't for the Merfolk/Sahuagin after you guys, I would say swim under the enemy and capsize their asses. Or just swim to port under the blockade in the cover of night, and gut the enemy's leaders. Then start a riot in town and hit them from sea at the same time. Total chaos is the best way to defeat a blockade.
BlueFlames
03-03-08, 08:19 PM Heat Metal anybody? I would question why a navy in D&D would have so many pressure cookers of such size, but how royalty wants to spend their money is up to them. Alternatively, summoning a swarm of rats on the deck and watching them enter through the turret and raise some hell would be all kinds of entertaining.

Third-level druid spells don't seem terribly impressive for this particular task, but something tells me that the threat of 8d4 damage from Heat Metal could force evacuation of large parts of an ironclad ship or pose a serious danger to ammunition/boiler fuel if you're in a gunpowder/steam power campaign.
yellowdingo
03-03-08, 08:40 PM Heat Metal anybody? I would question why a navy in D&D would have so many pressure cookers of such size, but how royalty wants to spend their money is up to them. Alternatively, summoning a swarm of rats on the deck and watching them enter through the turret and raise some hell would be all kinds of entertaining.

Third-level druid spells don't seem terribly impressive for this particular task, but something tells me that the threat of 8d4 damage from Heat Metal could force evacuation of large parts of an ironclad ship or pose a serious danger to ammunition/boiler fuel if you're in a gunpowder/steam power campaign.

Steam Cannon

Range: 1 mile, Damage: 10d6, Rate: 1/2 rounds, Weight: 2000lb, Crew: 4 (including druid spellcaster)
Reqiurements: Needs a Druid (3rd level or better - prefer. 10th level) to cast a Heat Metal Spell. This brings the boiler to steam and then the weapon can be fired.
TwistedPuppy
03-04-08, 11:34 AM Well, just remember what you're dealing with: an iron clad vessel. Historically the iron armor did not extend very far below the waterline. So spells like warp wood, etc, should have an effect on the wooden structure of the ship.

Anything that can attack them below the waterline should do the trick... maybe make spar torpedoes using beads of force for warheads? Heck, use beads of force to mine the enemy harbor.

From Tom Clancy's book on submarines:

Remember, a ship is a vessel that keeps air in and water out. And any ship can be a minesweeper. Once.

and

How many mines does it take to make a minefield?

None. All you need is a press release.
Azezel
03-04-08, 11:54 AM Have you considered capturing a couple of rust monsters?
Sinfire Titan
03-04-08, 02:59 PM Have you considered capturing a couple of rust monsters?

Better yet, Rust Monster Wands from Complete Scoundrel. More cost-effective, seeing as you don't lose half of your equipment just training the damn thing.
CrazyGuy
03-04-08, 03:46 PM Well, assuming that they are US Civil War type ironclads, then you are going to be dealing with heavy ships with low freeboards and a rather high center of gravity-not the most seaworthy of vessels, in any case. USS Monitor was lost to a storm, not enemy action. While Control Weather or Control Water is beyond your grasp, Summon Nature's Ally IIis quite doable, and even a Small Water Elemental can screw up an Ironclad pretty bad with its Vortex ability. Pulling the bow or stern down 10 feet and then releasing it in the space of 6 seconds will cause significant structural stress, and may very well swamp it. Alternatively, a 30-foot void right under the middle of the ship can snap the keel-it works, torpedoes have been designed to function this way since the 1930s. A 6th-level druid with a Wisdom of 16 can summon an average of 10 small water elementals a day with his 2nd and 3rd level slots-coincidentally, you have 10 ironclads to deal with. Hmmm...:plotting:

Call Lighting will be spectacularly useless-Ironclads had 4+ inches of metal plating over an oaken casemate several feet thick-the lightning will hit the armor, and be conducted down into the water, without much ill effect to anybody not in contact with the outer armor.

Heat Metal, while useful-looking at first glance, is hampered by only affecting 150 pounds of metal at CL 6-you are not going to be heating up an awful lot of area, and the ensuing fire, if any, will hardly be beyond the ability of the crew to put out.

If you cannot go for a magical assualt, you will probably have to go for sabotage-the CSS Tennessee was crippled at the Battle of Mobile Bay after Union fire destroyed her steering chains, which for some reason were located on the outside of the armor.:doh:

While this flaw was apparently unique to the Tennessee, going after the rudder itself, or the screws, will leave them, well, screwed.

This is about all I can come up with without putting some effort into this (Yes, I am lazy. So what?). If you want more, let me know and I will put some brain cells into it.
Mock26
03-04-08, 03:58 PM Swim under the iron clad and stick a bag of holding against the hull. Then, swim back a ways, take out your 20' pole with a portable hole on the end and shove said bag into the portable hole. That ironclad will suddenly have a 20' diameter hole in it's bottom. Good luck to the crew on keeping it afloat after that point! And, yes, this is a very expensive way to take out a ship, but it is also a very effective way to do so. (It also requires a specific interpretation of the rules.)
IllyannaFarseer
03-04-08, 04:42 PM Ironclads aren't highly manuverable and thus would be susceptable to standard ramming tactics. you just need to put enough oars in the water so to speak to get ships into ramming range. Expect to loose a lot of ships, but thats what the pesants ships are for, screening the warships who'll ram the iron clads flooding them. You can also board the ships and attach grapples with large bags of rocks to weigh down one side.

As was suggested water elementals would do some damage as would warp wood spells. (get together with a scroll scriber and work some up). But outside of magic unless you have a weapon that can penetrate the iron hull, you need to hit it below the water line (ramming) or swarm it and jam the hatches so they can't fire thier weapons (assuming they have cannons).

Are these classic Civil War iron clads with cannon? or Medievel type that ram and hold assault troops?

Do you have access to greek fire? If they were sloppy in thier construction ( and what government shipworks aren't sloppy?) then the liquid fire may pour in the hatches and seams setting the inside on fire. YOu may loose a few delievery ships but that's what pesants are for right?
Rymosrac
03-04-08, 05:41 PM Actually. . . A few buttloads of alchemists fire vials and some grenade launchers wouldn't hurt.

For grenade launchers, use magic items that have at-will Launch Object from Spell Compendium. Guidlines suggest that the launchers wouldn't be more that 1-2kgp apeice. I forget if the spell is 0-level or 1st-level.

Then just land the vials in the gunports.

Alternately, cast invisibility on your rogues, fly them over, have them sneak into the powder holds (assuming these things have cannon) and drop a timed Blast Disc (Heroes of Battle / Magic Item Compendium).
ghost_image
03-04-08, 07:32 PM Against something of such raw power, stealth could be a big advantage. A few PC's in a row boat in the dead of night might be able to overrun the crew, the reward being an ironclad. Honestly, why destroy your enemy's weapon if there's a chance to use it against him?
A_Fatter_MaN
03-04-08, 07:46 PM rent one of these

Prussian Devilfish
Smugglers from the Baltic Sea speak in hushed tones of entire ships capsized by a sea monster. The accounts are always the same: a headless Cyclops, shelled like a lobster, with a swollen white hot basilisk eye in its chest, climbs aboard from beneath the waves with one black claw, rips sailors limb from limb, and howls until the sea boils and the ship is torn asunder. Theories about this beast fill taverns nightly. Fishermen along the coast ascribe it to legends of half-man, half-lobster “Chuuls,” or perhaps the work of Sea Witches. More educated folk suspect it is hallucinations brought about by strong drink. Superstitious sailors fear it is an Aboleth and line the bottoms of their ships with copper to protect the planks from slime. Hardly anyone suspects a machine.
The real culprit is the Prussian Devilfish- a Huge mecha constructed specifically for underwater combat and sabotage. The Devilfish performs less than admirably on land, but under the waves is a completely different story. Equipped with a deep pressure seal and a powerful Sonic Wave Cannon, the Devilfish can hide in a trench and rip through a galleon’s hull with impunity. Its swim speed enables it to reach the surface quickly and climb aboard sailing vessels, and its orichalcum construction renders it practically bulletproof. Just one Devilfish can turn the tide of a naval battle and give the enemy a whole new legacy of nightmares.

Huge Mecha
AC: +6
HP: +200
Str: +10
Hardness: 20
Speed: Walk 30 ft, Swim 100 ft (poor)
GP Total: 1,077,856 (market price: 1,200,000)
Equipment Slots:
Back: Impeller
Left arm: Gunpowder Engine
Left hand: Empty (used for deep pressure seal), holds Cutlass
Right arm: Cannon (continued)
Right hand: Cannon
Shoulders: Guidance Fins
Torso: Cockpit + Life Support + Deep Pressure Seal, Thunderstone Lamp
Belt: None (used for life support)
Boots: None (used for deep pressure seal)
Superstructure: Orichalcum
Main Engine: Gunpowder
Armor: Orichalcum
Equipment Bonus: +8.
Armor Penalty: –8.
Speed Penalty: –10 feet.
Min Str for light load: 18 (land), 13 (underwater)

if you need specifics on parts PM me..........(i doubt everyone wants to read them :P if anyone wants them ill post 'em :) )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scarblade 03-03-08, 06:33 PM	Me and my friends are playing a Stormwreck campagin and we need a result to somehow destroy ironclads. We have a 6th lvl. Swashbuckler, 5th lvl. Rouge/ 1st lvl. Theif acrobat, and 6th lvl. druid(of the waves) that may not help you a lot, but we need some feedback on how to kill ironclads in a huge Baron v.s. Duke war. Are there any devious thinkers in these forums:smirk: !!! Please post!
Sinfire Titan 03-03-08, 07:07 PM	Do you mean Ironclad Maulers, from the MM3? If so, a simple Grease spell shuts them down. Just focus on Ray spells to kill them, and their AC won't even bother you. Hell, Flying works wonders against them.
Savin 03-03-08, 07:14 PM	He means ships ships with metal armor nie unpenatrable, im the rogue, we have a whole royal navy and then a crap load of bad little fishing boats and peasents willing to die. were not in charge but we think that the baron has ironclads + crappy tubs of junk and a few warships, not sure on their numbers lets say 5-10 ironclads 20-35-40 warships and lets say 20-30 crappy tubs were not ntirely sure this is at all true, but we think so and even though he might just be blockading the town were stumped. all of our gold is in a shop in town so we can not run, especially not now also, some sahogen or merfolk thingys are after us. making this quite interesting any advice is helpful
Sinfire Titan 03-03-08, 07:41 PM	In that case, try arguing that metal conducts Electricity, and use Call lighting as much as possible. Seeking Ray (PH2) gets a bonus against enemies wear all metal, and makes your rays more accurate. If you have a Wizard in the party, tell him to blast the living hell out of the enemy. This is one of a few instances where Evocation may be worth something special. If it wasn't for the Merfolk/Sahuagin after you guys, I would say swim under the enemy and capsize their asses. Or just swim to port under the blockade in the cover of night, and gut the enemy's leaders. Then start a riot in town and hit them from sea at the same time. Total chaos is the best way to defeat a blockade.
BlueFlames 03-03-08, 08:19 PM	Heat Metal anybody? I would question why a navy in D&D would have so many pressure cookers of such size, but how royalty wants to spend their money is up to them. Alternatively, summoning a swarm of rats on the deck and watching them enter through the turret and raise some hell would be all kinds of entertaining. Third-level druid spells don't seem terribly impressive for this particular task, but something tells me that the threat of 8d4 damage from Heat Metal could force evacuation of large parts of an ironclad ship or pose a serious danger to ammunition/boiler fuel if you're in a gunpowder/steam power campaign.
yellowdingo 03-03-08, 08:40 PM	Heat Metal anybody? I would question why a navy in D&D would have so many pressure cookers of such size, but how royalty wants to spend their money is up to them. Alternatively, summoning a swarm of rats on the deck and watching them enter through the turret and raise some hell would be all kinds of entertaining. Third-level druid spells don't seem terribly impressive for this particular task, but something tells me that the threat of 8d4 damage from Heat Metal could force evacuation of large parts of an ironclad ship or pose a serious danger to ammunition/boiler fuel if you're in a gunpowder/steam power campaign. Steam Cannon Range: 1 mile, Damage: 10d6, Rate: 1/2 rounds, Weight: 2000lb, Crew: 4 (including druid spellcaster) Reqiurements: Needs a Druid (3rd level or better - prefer. 10th level) to cast a Heat Metal Spell. This brings the boiler to steam and then the weapon can be fired.
TwistedPuppy 03-04-08, 11:34 AM	Well, just remember what you're dealing with: an iron clad vessel. Historically the iron armor did not extend very far below the waterline. So spells like warp wood, etc, should have an effect on the wooden structure of the ship. Anything that can attack them below the waterline should do the trick... maybe make spar torpedoes using beads of force for warheads? Heck, use beads of force to mine the enemy harbor. From Tom Clancy's book on submarines: Remember, a ship is a vessel that keeps air in and water out. And any ship can be a minesweeper. Once. and How many mines does it take to make a minefield? None. All you need is a press release.
Azezel 03-04-08, 11:54 AM	Have you considered capturing a couple of rust monsters?
Sinfire Titan 03-04-08, 02:59 PM	Have you considered capturing a couple of rust monsters? Better yet, Rust Monster Wands from Complete Scoundrel. More cost-effective, seeing as you don't lose half of your equipment just training the damn thing.
CrazyGuy 03-04-08, 03:46 PM	Well, assuming that they are US Civil War type ironclads, then you are going to be dealing with heavy ships with low freeboards and a rather high center of gravity-not the most seaworthy of vessels, in any case. USS Monitor was lost to a storm, not enemy action. While Control Weather or Control Water is beyond your grasp, Summon Nature's Ally IIis quite doable, and even a Small Water Elemental can screw up an Ironclad pretty bad with its Vortex ability. Pulling the bow or stern down 10 feet and then releasing it in the space of 6 seconds will cause significant structural stress, and may very well swamp it. Alternatively, a 30-foot void right under the middle of the ship can snap the keel-it works, torpedoes have been designed to function this way since the 1930s. A 6th-level druid with a Wisdom of 16 can summon an average of 10 small water elementals a day with his 2nd and 3rd level slots-coincidentally, you have 10 ironclads to deal with. Hmmm...:plotting: Call Lighting will be spectacularly useless-Ironclads had 4+ inches of metal plating over an oaken casemate several feet thick-the lightning will hit the armor, and be conducted down into the water, without much ill effect to anybody not in contact with the outer armor. Heat Metal, while useful-looking at first glance, is hampered by only affecting 150 pounds of metal at CL 6-you are not going to be heating up an awful lot of area, and the ensuing fire, if any, will hardly be beyond the ability of the crew to put out. If you cannot go for a magical assualt, you will probably have to go for sabotage-the CSS Tennessee was crippled at the Battle of Mobile Bay after Union fire destroyed her steering chains, which for some reason were located on the outside of the armor.:doh: While this flaw was apparently unique to the Tennessee, going after the rudder itself, or the screws, will leave them, well, screwed. This is about all I can come up with without putting some effort into this (Yes, I am lazy. So what?). If you want more, let me know and I will put some brain cells into it.
Mock26 03-04-08, 03:58 PM	Swim under the iron clad and stick a bag of holding against the hull. Then, swim back a ways, take out your 20' pole with a portable hole on the end and shove said bag into the portable hole. That ironclad will suddenly have a 20' diameter hole in it's bottom. Good luck to the crew on keeping it afloat after that point! And, yes, this is a very expensive way to take out a ship, but it is also a very effective way to do so. (It also requires a specific interpretation of the rules.)
IllyannaFarseer 03-04-08, 04:42 PM	Ironclads aren't highly manuverable and thus would be susceptable to standard ramming tactics. you just need to put enough oars in the water so to speak to get ships into ramming range. Expect to loose a lot of ships, but thats what the pesants ships are for, screening the warships who'll ram the iron clads flooding them. You can also board the ships and attach grapples with large bags of rocks to weigh down one side. As was suggested water elementals would do some damage as would warp wood spells. (get together with a scroll scriber and work some up). But outside of magic unless you have a weapon that can penetrate the iron hull, you need to hit it below the water line (ramming) or swarm it and jam the hatches so they can't fire thier weapons (assuming they have cannons). Are these classic Civil War iron clads with cannon? or Medievel type that ram and hold assault troops? Do you have access to greek fire? If they were sloppy in thier construction ( and what government shipworks aren't sloppy?) then the liquid fire may pour in the hatches and seams setting the inside on fire. YOu may loose a few delievery ships but that's what pesants are for right?
Rymosrac 03-04-08, 05:41 PM	Actually. . . A few buttloads of alchemists fire vials and some grenade launchers wouldn't hurt. For grenade launchers, use magic items that have at-will Launch Object from Spell Compendium. Guidlines suggest that the launchers wouldn't be more that 1-2kgp apeice. I forget if the spell is 0-level or 1st-level. Then just land the vials in the gunports. Alternately, cast invisibility on your rogues, fly them over, have them sneak into the powder holds (assuming these things have cannon) and drop a timed Blast Disc (Heroes of Battle / Magic Item Compendium).
ghost_image 03-04-08, 07:32 PM	Against something of such raw power, stealth could be a big advantage. A few PC's in a row boat in the dead of night might be able to overrun the crew, the reward being an ironclad. Honestly, why destroy your enemy's weapon if there's a chance to use it against him?
A_Fatter_MaN 03-04-08, 07:46 PM	rent one of these Prussian Devilfish Smugglers from the Baltic Sea speak in hushed tones of entire ships capsized by a sea monster. The accounts are always the same: a headless Cyclops, shelled like a lobster, with a swollen white hot basilisk eye in its chest, climbs aboard from beneath the waves with one black claw, rips sailors limb from limb, and howls until the sea boils and the ship is torn asunder. Theories about this beast fill taverns nightly. Fishermen along the coast ascribe it to legends of half-man, half-lobster “Chuuls,” or perhaps the work of Sea Witches. More educated folk suspect it is hallucinations brought about by strong drink. Superstitious sailors fear it is an Aboleth and line the bottoms of their ships with copper to protect the planks from slime. Hardly anyone suspects a machine. The real culprit is the Prussian Devilfish- a Huge mecha constructed specifically for underwater combat and sabotage. The Devilfish performs less than admirably on land, but under the waves is a completely different story. Equipped with a deep pressure seal and a powerful Sonic Wave Cannon, the Devilfish can hide in a trench and rip through a galleon’s hull with impunity. Its swim speed enables it to reach the surface quickly and climb aboard sailing vessels, and its orichalcum construction renders it practically bulletproof. Just one Devilfish can turn the tide of a naval battle and give the enemy a whole new legacy of nightmares. Huge Mecha AC: +6 HP: +200 Str: +10 Hardness: 20 Speed: Walk 30 ft, Swim 100 ft (poor) GP Total: 1,077,856 (market price: 1,200,000) Equipment Slots: Back: Impeller Left arm: Gunpowder Engine Left hand: Empty (used for deep pressure seal), holds Cutlass Right arm: Cannon (continued) Right hand: Cannon Shoulders: Guidance Fins Torso: Cockpit + Life Support + Deep Pressure Seal, Thunderstone Lamp Belt: None (used for life support) Boots: None (used for deep pressure seal) Superstructure: Orichalcum Main Engine: Gunpowder Armor: Orichalcum Equipment Bonus: +8. Armor Penalty: –8. Speed Penalty: –10 feet. Min Str for light load: 18 (land), 13 (underwater) if you need specifics on parts PM me..........(i doubt everyone wants to read them :P if anyone wants them ill post 'em :) )