Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Herr Masel 05-12-06, 07:34 PM	We just started a new game and I am playing a barbarian, however I told my DM I will multiclass him into a sorcerer, and I made sure to roleplay it as well. The thing is (I haven't asked him yet but I will) I think I would prefer to multiclass to a wizard, because a multiclassed sorcerer would take ages to advance and learn new spells. I know his advantage is being able to cast more but I wonder how useful he will be when at fourth level (which means level 8 for the character overall) he gets his first second level spell. My question is from the roleplaying point of view - whether you think it is ok (I will talk to the DM of course). My barbarian isn't really a dumb giant who kills everything, just a refugee who grew up in a small tribe and never got to see much outside his camp, and not every wizard has to be a genius book worm, even if stereotypically they are. I don't care if he isn't the strongest character (his stats are pretty low anyway), that can be fun to roleplay, but it seems a multiclassed sorcrer is just not worth it.
tiercel 05-12-06, 08:03 PM	From a mechanical point of view, multiclassing spellcasters only really works if: 1) you are taking a small "dip" into the class to learn just a few spells, and you are mostly a barbarian/hitter/whatever 2) you are using a Prestige Class to help you fuse the two classes together. If you really want to play a character that is a mixture of barbarian and arcane caster, you should probably consider something like Eldritch Knight. If you just take some levels of each, you will be much less than either a full barbarian or a full caster. Having said that, there is no RP reason you could not multiclass into wizard instead of sorcerer. Just because you are a "barbarian" doesn't mean you are dumb. There is no INT or WIS penalty associated with the barbarian class -- you can be very well informed and intellectual. Sure, you are illiterate, but that just means that you grew up in a background where knowledge was passed on personally rather than through books (and illiteracy is a problem solved as soon as you do multiclass). Keep in mind if you want to be part-barbarian part-wizard, whatever score you put into your casting stat (Intelligence, for wizards) will determine the highest level spell you can ever cast. If you put your best stats into STR and CON to start with, as a barbarian, and have a moderate INT (say, 13 or so), you will only be able to cast low level spells unless you are wearing a headband of intellect or similar. If you want to play a barbarian that just knows a "few magic tricks" that's not a huge problem, but if you want to really combine the two it is an issue. Additionally, you will want to consider the issue of armor -- if you wear basically any armor, you will have Arcane Spell Failure chance. Either your spells will fizzle, you will have to cast spells without somatic components, or you will have to give up armor (mage armor can help there, obviously, but drains the number of other spells you can cast). Your concept sounds interesting but you will want to give some thought to the nuts and bolts so that the character is not too weak and still fun to play in combat too.
Aniona_Amakiir 05-12-06, 08:19 PM	Two words: Rage mage Its in complete warrior, has average BAB, good fort save, 1/2 casting progression, 10% ASF ignore, An insane spell rage which allows you to cast some spells and those spells use character level instead of class level when determening their power. Also has a neat cap ability at level 10 which essentially is a tensers transformation without the spellcasting limitation. So go for it! :)
Tristan 05-12-06, 08:41 PM	Two words: Rage mage Its in complete warrior, has average BAB, good fort save, 1/2 casting progression, 10% ASF ignore, An insane spell rage which allows you to cast some spells and those spells use character level instead of class level when determening their power. Also has a neat cap ability at level 10 which essentially is a tensers transformation without the spellcasting limitation. So go for it! :) yea, this goes well with 2 feats in the races of the wild, but im not going to say which. gah, Rage mage is cool but yea, rage mage decent combatant, pansy spellcaster normally Killer spellcaster (full caster and +4spell DCs) and killer warrior (Still got armor and bonus on str right *nudge*) when in a rage
Millennium 05-12-06, 10:30 PM	Unless you've already spent two skill points to buy off your illiteracy, I strongly suggest you roleplay learning how to read. You'll get the ability for free when you take your first level of Wizard (or any other literate class), roleplaying this out will earn you big brownie points with almost any DM.
Wuggadad 05-12-06, 11:09 PM	I suppose you could take the Feat Able Learner, if you are playing a human. Then you could place skill points in Spellcraft, Knowledge Arcana, and Concentrate at first level. Then start 1st level in barbarian, taking advantage of the larger number of skill points and hit points, then switch to wizard or sorceror. Taking only one level of barbarian, with the stat distribution you would want for a wizard or sorceror, is fairly decent. You get the hit points that wizards _really_ need, and the extra movement speed does not hurt in keeping out of trouble. A barbarian sorc or wiz built with Able Learner could have some pretty interesting skills. Could be a lot stealthier or more observant than most arcane types.
FriendoftheDork 05-14-06, 05:02 PM	Well with most DMs you're going to need some in-game reason for WANTING to be a wizard, as well as some way of attaining a mentor who can teach you enough about magic. It helps if your barbarian is very intelligent, but he must also impress the wizard or guild somehow, or at least do them some favor. Saving their lives would do the trick. Talk with your DM, and try to work together with him how to incorporate this into the storyarc.
Archangel_James 05-14-06, 05:38 PM	If I were playing a barbarian and I needed a good roleplaying reason to multiclass to wizard, I would claim the following: "When I was a small child, my grandfather gave me this old book before he died. He said it contained the family's secrets, but he never figured them out during his lifetime. I have kept this book as my most prized treasure, and I vowed to crack its ancient-looking code. I have been sneaking peaks at in in secret late at night when I'm alone and finally, now, I think I'm very close. In fact, I think I'll have the first few pages deciphered by the time I reach my next level!"
FeceMan 05-14-06, 08:03 PM	We just started a new game and I am playing a barbarian, however I told my DM I will multiclass him into a sorcerer, and I made sure to roleplay it as well. The thing is (I haven't asked him yet but I will) I think I would prefer to multiclass to a wizard, because a multiclassed sorcerer would take ages to advance and learn new spells. I know his advantage is being able to cast more but I wonder how useful he will be when at fourth level (which means level 8 for the character overall) he gets his first second level spell. My question is from the roleplaying point of view - whether you think it is ok (I will talk to the DM of course). My barbarian isn't really a dumb giant who kills everything, just a refugee who grew up in a small tribe and never got to see much outside his camp, and not every wizard has to be a genius book worm, even if stereotypically they are. I don't care if he isn't the strongest character (his stats are pretty low anyway), that can be fun to roleplay, but it seems a multiclassed sorcrer is just not worth it. Ewww...well...Rage Mage DOES work out, as does a level (or three) dip in Spellsword (assuming that you get the reqiured armor proficiency). Unfortunately, with four levels in barbarian already--am I the only one who actually read that?--your spellcasting will be extremely retarded. Rage Mages, although unique and flavorful, are a relatively weak class because of only have 3/4 BAB and half caster progression. By the way, what're the two feats in Races of the Wild that work out well? Oh, and you must be human to take Able Learner.
Shinryouga 06-11-06, 05:56 PM	Dungeon magazine (cant remember the issue number) had a nifty little item, a Torc of Lucid Raging. Cost 9000gp, took the neck slot, but it lifted ALL of the raging restrictions on actions. Since my group found that, there hasn't been a barbarian without one. To the OP, the Torc would eliminate the need to prestige into Rage Mage, and instead allow you to go into one of the better spell progression prestiges. And remember, being a low level caster hurts you where? Thats right, DCs and durations (among others, but those are the worst). So what do you do? Cast spells without DCs, and spells with preset or really long durations. Look for spells with instantaneous, 1 round, 1 minute, or 24 hour durations, or spells with durations of 10 minutes or 1 hour per level. I suggest many of the swift spells from Complete Arcane. For a round of prep before hand, think of what you can do if your true strike, then on next round Power Attack and cast whirling blade? A full power attack with a greataxe with leftover bonuses to hit, striking every creature down a 60' line? Trust me, this trick works, just make sure you've got the time to set up for it. Just my two coppers.
Khan2000 06-11-06, 08:41 PM	Is a barbarian/wizard out of the question? No. A barbarian starts of illiterate; there is no reason why he should stay that way. The key is to have the barbarian seek out a wizard who is willing to train him to become a wizard. If you decide to go down the path of sorcerer, you don't necessarily need to be literate because a sorcerer has innate arcane ability, whereas a wizard doesn't.
FiestFan 06-11-06, 09:21 PM	Unless you've already spent two skill points to buy off your illiteracy, I strongly suggest you roleplay learning how to read. You'll get the ability for free when you take your first level of Wizard (or any other literate class), roleplaying this out will earn you big brownie points with almost any DM. When I built my FR Rage mage, I had all his spells scribed in Rashemi, which the DM and I agreed would be the only language I automatically learned when I multiclassed. Cost a bit more gold, but made up for it in coolness factor.
FeceMan 06-12-06, 02:05 AM	Dungeon magazine Unfortunately, any text beyond this point is retarded, at no fault to Shinryouga.
tsuyoshikentsu 06-12-06, 04:15 AM	Unfortunately, any text beyond this point is retarded, at no fault to Shinryouga.Y'know, not everything from the mags is automatically unbalanced. :rolleyes: If you're very, very Good, there's feat in the BoED that allows casting during rage. It IS Exalted, though. EDIT: Oh, and the RotW feats are Battle Casting and Magic of the Land, neither of which are really that great.
DraconsNighthawk 06-12-06, 01:34 PM	It is a intresting combo. In one of my games, the player was a Sun Elf Bab/Wiz who was a pyromaniac. Even had ioun stones with contiunal flame casted on them. XD. His backstory was his parents were elven explorers, and during a small outing with him as a child, they died in the middle of the forest leaving him alone. He had to survive at any means, thus barbarian. He learned qucikly that forest creatures don't like fire, so he became obsess with it. A few years later he was saved by the sun elf communty. THey hoped to curve his, wildness, by forcing him into school. He didn't like it til he learned that wizards can make fire. So he learned quickly, and became a envoker. (He thought Illusion and Necromancy were the /false/ magic.
ElSanto 06-12-06, 05:18 PM	I did a Barbarian Wizard once two and it was a lot of fun. The backstory was that the Barbarian was next in line to be king and went out to do great deeds and prove himself as a powerful warrior. In the course of his travels he ran party and was impressed by the party wizard, who was from a tropical island, and over 80 years old by the time he met my barbarian. In the tribe of my barbarian, when elders reached the age of 60 they left the village to battle bears until they died, thus ensuring death with glory and a spot in after life. The fact that this wizard had managed to win against every bear he faced for 20 years impressed the barbarian enough that he asked to learn magic from the wizard. The "magic" the barbarian wanted to learn was just the ablity to read, because reading ment he could learn stories older than the oldest tribesman, and pass his knowlege down to others long after death. The wizard agreed to teach the barbarian to read, but the only book he had was his spellbook. Anyhow my barbarian picked up ranks in Literacy and knowlege arcane and spellcraft before he ever became a wizard. No one civilzed trusted wizards in the game, as the world was ruled by an evil mages for generations, so the wizard explained he was holy man to the barbarian, and given his low wisdom the barbarian belived him. The funny bit happened when the wizard tried to explain to the barbarian that he had been learning magic spells. "Krunk I've been teaching you magic for months now." "Yes, me know books strong magic, they make Krunk's voice strong enough to echo down the generations. Krunks voice will be the first the last longer than sixty years." "No, you don't understand, when you read these books you've learned powerfull spells." "Yes, me know that. Krunk now know fine words to make woman swoon and give themselves over to Krunk." "No, no, no, this book you've been reading from is magic." "Me know, Kaze." "I don't think you understand, Krunk, you can use this book to crush your enemies." "Book is heavy to you because you are old man, but trust Krunk when he tell you that this is not a good tool to kill with. Krunk's axe is much better, Krunk would even say most rocks are better at crushing skulls than book is." (The wizard shoots a lighting bolt out.) "That Krunk, that is what the book can do to your enemies." "The book let me do that?" "With time, yes." "Why you no tell me book is magic?"
steenan 06-13-06, 03:33 AM	As many previous posters, I think there's nothing wrong with multiclassing barbarian and wizard. Obviously, it's an exotic combination, but it's even better as such. Imagine a spellbook written in pictograms on bone pieces, or recorded as a kipu... Honestly, many od the standard spells' components fit a barbarian/wizard much more than a typical bookworm one. The only problem is barbarian's illiteracy. I know he becomes literate when multiclassing, but IMO it's too late - he has to be able to read to learn to become a wizard BEFORE he takes a wizard level. So, probably you have to waste 2 skill points to become literate one level before multiclassing. I don't think it's very painful, especialy seeing you are focused rather on making an interesting character, than on min/maxing.