Is Disable Device important? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is Disable Device important? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mal20
10-06-04, 07:29 AM My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them.

Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem?
anders
10-06-04, 07:32 AM As long as you can find the trap you can avoid it..

Disable device isnt *that* important imho.
Thorak
10-06-04, 07:51 AM Deliberately triggering traps you find often effectively disarms them, too. Prodding pressure plates and tripping wires with long poles, or just getting the barbarian to open the chest, all work. Not as reliably and safely, but they work.

Or go around. If you can see the poisoned needle waiting to prick anyone unlocking the chest, just smash the lid open. If you're not bothering with the lock, the trap won't go off.
Telperion
10-06-04, 07:55 AM There's always magic...

Abjurations, divination, evocations, transmutations...lots and lots of spells that can be used to counter any problems that might come up when a party runs into trap...
amethal
10-06-04, 07:59 AM You can always get the barbarian to open the trapped chest etc., in the hope that his hit points and saves will see him through.

On another thread, someone suggested using summoned monsters to trigger traps. You need to be able to communicate with them to get them to do this (so being able to speak celestial, or infernal, might come in handy).

My preference is to have the nimble rogue painstakingly disarm traps, as it seems a more "elegant" solution - but to answer your question, if nobody wants to take any more ranks in disarm traps then it shouldn't pose much of a problem.
Robert Craven
10-06-04, 08:20 AM My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them.

Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem?

It is not as important as Search or Use Magic Device for a Rogue. But the Rogue has tons of skill points. So putting some into Disable Device every other level is not such a bad idea. There are always situation where a successful Disable Device check is the only way (some trap you cannot circumvent)
If you do not have a rogue, you will have a hard time finding the traps in the first place.
Besides Disable Device not only works on traps. You can "disable" siege weapons, carts and any mechanical device.
Zonorhc
10-06-04, 08:38 AM Robert Craven has it right.

I once got around to using Disable Device to jam the lock on a door so the orcs on the other side would get slaughtered by whatever hungry pet they had. Of course, we also backed that up by setting a few tables against it, but Disable Device isn't just for traps. The name is pretty much self-explanatory.
Lina_Inverse
10-06-04, 08:40 AM its utterly unimportent.you DO have a 10ft. pole right. ;)
Arbitrary Aardvark
10-06-04, 02:02 PM It's utterly vital. There are plenty of traps which have a radius of over 10', that do things like flood a room, or cause thirty feet of ceiling to collapse etc. If I DM a party with a competent rogue, I add in some good traps for the rogue to disarm/disable. If there isn't a competent rogue, I don't go overboard, but there will typically be several traps in a small dungeon, and at least one will just about require either disable device or extreme cleverness to defeat. I don't care how many HP the Barbarian has, but a 10'cube of rock falling on him and, coincidentally, blocking the corridor, is gonna hurt the party.
lbaron
10-06-04, 02:17 PM it isn't completely necassary, it just gets rid of headaches. Just remember the people who put the trap in place need a way to get around it themselves. there should be a on off switch to naturally disable the trap if you look hard enough and your DM thought of it :)
Board_Rider
10-06-04, 02:40 PM I would say tha for mechanical traps it really may not be a big deal. However if they are Magical in nature....some are in the DMG...than it is a must have. Usually you will not see a Barbarian or Fighter PC say,"Heh, you found a trap huh? Let me bear hug the chest and take the "grenade" for the team!!". Just doesn't happen. I usually find that when a rogue finds a trap the rest of the party hangs way back. At higher levels it is even more important because those traps can get deadly.
I had a character once that couldn't disable a trap before...with a Confusion spell attached to it. He had like a +11 to disable device (thought that would be enough)almost got the party killed. Sometimes those traps are something a fighter can't just "Take".
RealMad
10-06-04, 04:23 PM Traps are almost entirely situational. I admit that I, when I DM, don't like traps. I don't like placing them, I don't like thinking about what they do if sprung, I just don't find them as appetizing as creating a nice NPC betrayal plot or something.

That said, I do know that I have to penalize players somehow for not being able to deal with traps and basically what I do is that I put good treasure behind traps and make sure they know they're losing good treasure. An occasional trap to knock off 25% of their HP isn't bad either.

But, if you have a DM who's like me and doesn't use traps, then by all means, ignore the skill.
Nightshade-Docker
10-06-04, 04:51 PM then again, if u find yourself in a room. An Iron golem hanging from the ceiling with no legs, and a NPC bad guy controlling the unfinished thing by a complex mechanism, whilst standing behind an anti-magic barrier, you mind find it lifesaving. Or if u find yourself hiding in a carriage with smugglers and u really want to stop the thing moving. Or u find the opportunity to disable most of the siege weapons at night, and the orcs attacking the city in the morning are hurting themselves badly everytime they try to fire one of your carefully disabled siege weapons.
IT has lots of uses, when u got a DM creative enough to bring u into situations, that also can require solely use of skill to benefit from.
Like bluff and diplomacy, you are to make an effort to make them work, not simply hack and slash. If that's more your thing 1 or 2 points in disable device should sufice. If not, Have fun with this skill!
Mal20
10-06-04, 05:06 PM Like bluff and diplomacy, you are to make an effort to make them work, not simply hack and slash...Have fun with this skill!

I think this advice works right across the game. I played with people who hardly ever use their skills/abilities beyond combat - if I have an ability written on my character sheet I try my very best to make use of it at some stage.

Cheers for the advice guys.
starfire311
10-06-04, 05:32 PM Recently in a game I am playing in we lost our rogue due to RL problems work/school... We are all about 5th level I am a dwarven barbarian 4/fighter 1 with 63 HP it was deemed necessay that I try to "disable" all the traps... well since I have gotten quite alot of experience from "disabling" traps I was want to take a level in Rogue... but since Fighter is the dwarves favored class I would get an XP penalty... I a hoping to talkt he DM into letting me use Barbarian as my favorite clas but oh well.
Elendur
10-06-04, 05:45 PM The usefulness of this skill is totally campaign specific. As is diplomacy, ride, climb, profession, etc. If you find yourself facing a lot of traps and mechanical whatsits, you should probably keep up your disable device skill. If you have a rogue in the group this shouldn't be hard.
Ogre Mage
12-09-04, 01:06 AM It is entirely dependent on the DM. Some DMs run a "Deathtrap Dungeon" others use none at all. Some modules use more traps than others.

I think high ranks in the search skill + trapfinding ability is more important than disable device. So long as you know the trap is there, you can use other means to bypass it.

That said, the "blunder into traps and soak up the damage" method is a bad idea, especially at high levels. Those traps are designed to kill, drain you of 2d4 levels or send you to the astral plane, not just knock off some HPs. :P
cambric
12-09-04, 09:49 AM As people have said, it really depends on the type of DM that you have. Me, well...I have Disable Device maxed out!! It's like at 16 base and have other bonuses to it so it's around 21 at least...because MY DM LOVES traps and device's. I've used that skill on traps at least 20+ times...and I've disabled "devices" many times above that.

Now, maybe because I've seen it so often, I don't know, but when I DM I rarely have traps...a few here or there, but a rogue could probably get away with very few skill points and be fine in my campaigns.

Good luck!

Oh, and as Board Rider said, and I agree, I've NEVER seen a fighter or any other member tell me, "I'll take one for the team"... :P

We have 2 rogues in our group: Myself, a 9th Rogue, 3rd Spy Master and the other guy is a 4th Fighter, 2nd Rogue, and 4th Master of Chains...and when I'm there, I obviously take care of the traps and nobody really moves away, they completely trust me and I haven't "blown" a disable trap in like 11 months...but the 2 times I've missed, the party told me that he missed 17 traps in one session and 3 of 5 in the other!! He just couldn't get them...(of course he doesn't have Disable Device maxed, but it was funny)...the party said that after his 3rd mishap, they stood WAY back! :cool:
Elendur
12-09-04, 11:21 AM There are other things you can do with it as well, like jam locks and make wagon wheels fall off. But generally it's pretty campaign dependent.
Saiph
12-09-04, 12:21 PM Well, I've seen a fighter take one for the team.

Of course, the player is roleplaying him correctly, the guy isn't to bright, and has a feature called, "no time to think" from some book or made up, I'm not sure. It kills his mental stat modifiers for skills and such and boosts something else in return.

So when I, the highly intelligent Psion, fail to dispell the aura on a demons chest o' contracts (with a high roll after attempt 3, so know it just to complex a task for me). I ask him to open it, while I step away to "make room" (or rather find cover).

The two characters don't get along, and the fighter actually has much better saves than me (odd multiclassing synergies grrr...).

OOC the player glares at me, and I return with a double thumbs up. Now, when that trap has a 30" area, and gets everybody in the room, except me who wandered into the hall "to look for the guard" (I found my cover!), the party gets a bit touchy. My food was accidentally burnt for a week after that, and a few other slights.
Falkus
12-09-04, 12:45 PM its utterly unimportent.you DO have a 10ft. pole right.

Unless, of course, the trap is set up so that it destroys what it's guarding.
Elendur
12-09-04, 04:57 PM First its pretty hard to open chests, turn knobs, etc with a ten foot pole. Secondly many of the classic traps are designed to take out the second rank. There's a trap in A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slavelords that effect everyone except the person standing right in front of it.

See, traps are supposed to be tricky. Finding them is only the first part. Figuring out how to disable them is the other.

Remember, if you roll well enough, you can bypass the trap without setting it off. That's especially useful if there is vulnerable treasure nearby, or if the trap triggers an alarm.
e-z0r
12-09-04, 05:25 PM Just get a log and roll it along the hallways to clear off any trap mechanisms like that. Chests and doors are trickyer though.
danielinthewolvesden
12-10-04, 07:56 PM My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them.

Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem?

Will a rogue still have Search maxed out? That's absolutely critical.

Why is your rogue-type stopping progression in DD?
Asciiman
12-11-04, 05:25 AM If the pole won't handle the trap, you can always use a goat.

Yeah, bring a goat. When you see a trap, prod the goat with the pole. When it walks into the trap, you have your meal.

Just an idea.
The Master Weaver Is Warped
12-11-04, 06:52 AM I too have DD maxed out for my rogue.

Those traps, if you set them off, either make a lot of noise or are linked to a silent alarm spell somewhere else, and then BBEGirl sends her boy toys to pummel you because she just had her nails done.

Not a good thing.
Palin the Wizard
12-11-04, 12:27 PM Trapmonkeys should always have Disable Device maxed out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mal20 10-06-04, 07:29 AM	My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them. Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem?
anders 10-06-04, 07:32 AM	As long as you can find the trap you can avoid it.. Disable device isnt that important imho.
Thorak 10-06-04, 07:51 AM	Deliberately triggering traps you find often effectively disarms them, too. Prodding pressure plates and tripping wires with long poles, or just getting the barbarian to open the chest, all work. Not as reliably and safely, but they work. Or go around. If you can see the poisoned needle waiting to prick anyone unlocking the chest, just smash the lid open. If you're not bothering with the lock, the trap won't go off.
Telperion 10-06-04, 07:55 AM	There's always magic... Abjurations, divination, evocations, transmutations...lots and lots of spells that can be used to counter any problems that might come up when a party runs into trap...
amethal 10-06-04, 07:59 AM	You can always get the barbarian to open the trapped chest etc., in the hope that his hit points and saves will see him through. On another thread, someone suggested using summoned monsters to trigger traps. You need to be able to communicate with them to get them to do this (so being able to speak celestial, or infernal, might come in handy). My preference is to have the nimble rogue painstakingly disarm traps, as it seems a more "elegant" solution - but to answer your question, if nobody wants to take any more ranks in disarm traps then it shouldn't pose much of a problem.
Robert Craven 10-06-04, 08:20 AM	My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them. Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem? It is not as important as Search or Use Magic Device for a Rogue. But the Rogue has tons of skill points. So putting some into Disable Device every other level is not such a bad idea. There are always situation where a successful Disable Device check is the only way (some trap you cannot circumvent) If you do not have a rogue, you will have a hard time finding the traps in the first place. Besides Disable Device not only works on traps. You can "disable" siege weapons, carts and any mechanical device.
Zonorhc 10-06-04, 08:38 AM	Robert Craven has it right. I once got around to using Disable Device to jam the lock on a door so the orcs on the other side would get slaughtered by whatever hungry pet they had. Of course, we also backed that up by setting a few tables against it, but Disable Device isn't just for traps. The name is pretty much self-explanatory.
Lina_Inverse 10-06-04, 08:40 AM	its utterly unimportent.you DO have a 10ft. pole right. ;)
Arbitrary Aardvark 10-06-04, 02:02 PM	It's utterly vital. There are plenty of traps which have a radius of over 10', that do things like flood a room, or cause thirty feet of ceiling to collapse etc. If I DM a party with a competent rogue, I add in some good traps for the rogue to disarm/disable. If there isn't a competent rogue, I don't go overboard, but there will typically be several traps in a small dungeon, and at least one will just about require either disable device or extreme cleverness to defeat. I don't care how many HP the Barbarian has, but a 10'cube of rock falling on him and, coincidentally, blocking the corridor, is gonna hurt the party.
lbaron 10-06-04, 02:17 PM	it isn't completely necassary, it just gets rid of headaches. Just remember the people who put the trap in place need a way to get around it themselves. there should be a on off switch to naturally disable the trap if you look hard enough and your DM thought of it :)
Board_Rider 10-06-04, 02:40 PM	I would say tha for mechanical traps it really may not be a big deal. However if they are Magical in nature....some are in the DMG...than it is a must have. Usually you will not see a Barbarian or Fighter PC say,"Heh, you found a trap huh? Let me bear hug the chest and take the "grenade" for the team!!". Just doesn't happen. I usually find that when a rogue finds a trap the rest of the party hangs way back. At higher levels it is even more important because those traps can get deadly. I had a character once that couldn't disable a trap before...with a Confusion spell attached to it. He had like a +11 to disable device (thought that would be enough)almost got the party killed. Sometimes those traps are something a fighter can't just "Take".
RealMad 10-06-04, 04:23 PM	Traps are almost entirely situational. I admit that I, when I DM, don't like traps. I don't like placing them, I don't like thinking about what they do if sprung, I just don't find them as appetizing as creating a nice NPC betrayal plot or something. That said, I do know that I have to penalize players somehow for not being able to deal with traps and basically what I do is that I put good treasure behind traps and make sure they know they're losing good treasure. An occasional trap to knock off 25% of their HP isn't bad either. But, if you have a DM who's like me and doesn't use traps, then by all means, ignore the skill.
Nightshade-Docker 10-06-04, 04:51 PM	then again, if u find yourself in a room. An Iron golem hanging from the ceiling with no legs, and a NPC bad guy controlling the unfinished thing by a complex mechanism, whilst standing behind an anti-magic barrier, you mind find it lifesaving. Or if u find yourself hiding in a carriage with smugglers and u really want to stop the thing moving. Or u find the opportunity to disable most of the siege weapons at night, and the orcs attacking the city in the morning are hurting themselves badly everytime they try to fire one of your carefully disabled siege weapons. IT has lots of uses, when u got a DM creative enough to bring u into situations, that also can require solely use of skill to benefit from. Like bluff and diplomacy, you are to make an effort to make them work, not simply hack and slash. If that's more your thing 1 or 2 points in disable device should sufice. If not, Have fun with this skill!
Mal20 10-06-04, 05:06 PM	Like bluff and diplomacy, you are to make an effort to make them work, not simply hack and slash...Have fun with this skill! I think this advice works right across the game. I played with people who hardly ever use their skills/abilities beyond combat - if I have an ability written on my character sheet I try my very best to make use of it at some stage. Cheers for the advice guys.
starfire311 10-06-04, 05:32 PM	Recently in a game I am playing in we lost our rogue due to RL problems work/school... We are all about 5th level I am a dwarven barbarian 4/fighter 1 with 63 HP it was deemed necessay that I try to "disable" all the traps... well since I have gotten quite alot of experience from "disabling" traps I was want to take a level in Rogue... but since Fighter is the dwarves favored class I would get an XP penalty... I a hoping to talkt he DM into letting me use Barbarian as my favorite clas but oh well.
Elendur 10-06-04, 05:45 PM	The usefulness of this skill is totally campaign specific. As is diplomacy, ride, climb, profession, etc. If you find yourself facing a lot of traps and mechanical whatsits, you should probably keep up your disable device skill. If you have a rogue in the group this shouldn't be hard.
Ogre Mage 12-09-04, 01:06 AM	It is entirely dependent on the DM. Some DMs run a "Deathtrap Dungeon" others use none at all. Some modules use more traps than others. I think high ranks in the search skill + trapfinding ability is more important than disable device. So long as you know the trap is there, you can use other means to bypass it. That said, the "blunder into traps and soak up the damage" method is a bad idea, especially at high levels. Those traps are designed to kill, drain you of 2d4 levels or send you to the astral plane, not just knock off some HPs. :P
cambric 12-09-04, 09:49 AM	As people have said, it really depends on the type of DM that you have. Me, well...I have Disable Device maxed out!! It's like at 16 base and have other bonuses to it so it's around 21 at least...because MY DM LOVES traps and device's. I've used that skill on traps at least 20+ times...and I've disabled "devices" many times above that. Now, maybe because I've seen it so often, I don't know, but when I DM I rarely have traps...a few here or there, but a rogue could probably get away with very few skill points and be fine in my campaigns. Good luck! Oh, and as Board Rider said, and I agree, I've NEVER seen a fighter or any other member tell me, "I'll take one for the team"... :P We have 2 rogues in our group: Myself, a 9th Rogue, 3rd Spy Master and the other guy is a 4th Fighter, 2nd Rogue, and 4th Master of Chains...and when I'm there, I obviously take care of the traps and nobody really moves away, they completely trust me and I haven't "blown" a disable trap in like 11 months...but the 2 times I've missed, the party told me that he missed 17 traps in one session and 3 of 5 in the other!! He just couldn't get them...(of course he doesn't have Disable Device maxed, but it was funny)...the party said that after his 3rd mishap, they stood WAY back! :cool:
Elendur 12-09-04, 11:21 AM	There are other things you can do with it as well, like jam locks and make wagon wheels fall off. But generally it's pretty campaign dependent.
Saiph 12-09-04, 12:21 PM	Well, I've seen a fighter take one for the team. Of course, the player is roleplaying him correctly, the guy isn't to bright, and has a feature called, "no time to think" from some book or made up, I'm not sure. It kills his mental stat modifiers for skills and such and boosts something else in return. So when I, the highly intelligent Psion, fail to dispell the aura on a demons chest o' contracts (with a high roll after attempt 3, so know it just to complex a task for me). I ask him to open it, while I step away to "make room" (or rather find cover). The two characters don't get along, and the fighter actually has much better saves than me (odd multiclassing synergies grrr...). OOC the player glares at me, and I return with a double thumbs up. Now, when that trap has a 30" area, and gets everybody in the room, except me who wandered into the hall "to look for the guard" (I found my cover!), the party gets a bit touchy. My food was accidentally burnt for a week after that, and a few other slights.
Falkus 12-09-04, 12:45 PM	its utterly unimportent.you DO have a 10ft. pole right. Unless, of course, the trap is set up so that it destroys what it's guarding.
Elendur 12-09-04, 04:57 PM	First its pretty hard to open chests, turn knobs, etc with a ten foot pole. Secondly many of the classic traps are designed to take out the second rank. There's a trap in A3 Assault on the Aerie of the Slavelords that effect everyone except the person standing right in front of it. See, traps are supposed to be tricky. Finding them is only the first part. Figuring out how to disable them is the other. Remember, if you roll well enough, you can bypass the trap without setting it off. That's especially useful if there is vulnerable treasure nearby, or if the trap triggers an alarm.
e-z0r 12-09-04, 05:25 PM	Just get a log and roll it along the hallways to clear off any trap mechanisms like that. Chests and doors are trickyer though.
danielinthewolvesden 12-10-04, 07:56 PM	My adventuring group, currently around 4-5 level, is about to run into problem - lack of Disable Device. Only one person in the party has it (at total of +7), and won't be increasing it any further. Now so far the skill has only been used about 3 times in the campaign, and I'm wondering just how important it is for success at higher levels? We'll still have plenty of ranks in Search, so finding the traps isn't a problem, just dealing with them. Any novel ideas on how to get around this problem? Will a rogue still have Search maxed out? That's absolutely critical. Why is your rogue-type stopping progression in DD?
Asciiman 12-11-04, 05:25 AM	If the pole won't handle the trap, you can always use a goat. Yeah, bring a goat. When you see a trap, prod the goat with the pole. When it walks into the trap, you have your meal. Just an idea.
The Master Weaver Is Warped 12-11-04, 06:52 AM	I too have DD maxed out for my rogue. Those traps, if you set them off, either make a lot of noise or are linked to a silent alarm spell somewhere else, and then BBEGirl sends her boy toys to pummel you because she just had her nails done. Not a good thing.
Palin the Wizard 12-11-04, 12:27 PM	Trapmonkeys should always have Disable Device maxed out.