Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gnomester 07-30-04, 05:48 PM	I'm thinking of choosing a gnome bard as my first character (using starting package from PH 3.5), and I wanted to make sure that it won't be overwhelming for a beginner. Any suggestions?
Tyus Kanan 07-30-04, 07:26 PM	as a bard you'll get a smattering of all classes, it may very well help you narrow down what type of character you prefer :) bards get limited spellcasting, limited thief abilities, limited melee abilities, and such....so its not too bad a first character, though admittedly playing a straight fighter might be a bit simpler. but i think it'll work out alright for ya, they can be very fun :)
ninjarabbit 07-30-04, 08:25 PM	It might be a little tough for a first time player since bards have a lot of options that can overwhelm you, namely lots of spell and skill choices and requires some decent playing to be effective which does come with experience imo. My opinion for a first time player is to go with something simple, like a barbarian or sorcerer, to get the mechanics down then after you get the mechanics down play a bard.
Bait the Bard 07-30-04, 08:52 PM	I played a bard as my first character, and loved it. They are well balanced, and, as Tyus said, have a bit of each class, so they are more genertal in their approach. However, as ninja said, they do get a lot of skills to speand, but I prefer to think of this as a chance to explore some of the interesting types of skills, rather than limiting yourself. As you are starting at first level (I think), the amount of spells you get around the beginning will be very small, so they should not be hard to work out, and allow you to slowly get the hang of them, rather than have to understand everything at one go (sorcerer). And bards rule! :D - Bait
Kaminton 07-30-04, 09:59 PM	If you've never played D&D before, a bard might not be a good idea. They're sorta complicated mechanically compared to the other classes (especially if you want an effective character a few levels down the road). I recommend barbarian or sorceror as well. The archtypical barbarian is straightforward to play, isn't hard to build, and has enough skill points to be useful outside of combat. The sorceror can swap out obsolete spells later, so it's a good choice as well. Actually, rogues aren't bad either, but if you get into combat they require a better tactical sense to be useful than either barbarian or sorceror.
danielinthewolvesden 07-31-04, 04:34 AM	A fighter-type (Bbn, Fighter, Ranger, Monk, Paladin) is best for a Noob, but a bard can be fun. Remember- a bard isn't very powerful on his own- his power comes from boosting the party. Anyway- welcome to the 'club" and I hope you have fun!!
fish_heads 07-31-04, 04:46 AM	I also played a bard as my first character. magic, rogue skills, and decent combat are all great perks, along with the ever-useful bardsong. Of course, I played a 3.0 bard, and so haste, blur, mirror image, and mage armor helped when I charged into combat. ps - our DM was....not as knowledgable as he could have been, and so my bard actually ended up being insanely overpowerd because I abused the spell list...hehehe
Redding MTG Player 07-31-04, 04:49 AM	i am thinking a druid looks like fun to play (will be my next character) but I have never played a bard either so i don't know. If you arn't going to be using prestige classes/multiclass I wouldn't use one as they are quite weak compared to others and if the adventure is combat orientated you might be taking a back seat.
madhamster 07-31-04, 09:15 AM	IMHO bards have the best role playing potential. They are easily my favorite class. Most people start out with an easier class like fighter, barbarian or sorceror. I totally disagree with daniel... do not start with a Paladin, they are a pain to role play even for veterans. A bard would be a great choice for a newbie for all the reasons given and it should give you a chance to really get in to the role and play the character. Good luck and welcome!!
LostDM 07-31-04, 11:43 AM	I'd have to say a fighter is not exactly easy. I mean being faced with a feat descision nearly every level can lock up a newb, who has to read them all for the first time.. Barbiarians are definately simple. Bard's are a good intro to spell casting, as they start with so few and use the fairly simple soccer type system. Also don't stress out about your spells, they probably won't be the differance between life and death. If your going with the starting package I can't see how you can go wrong the skill choices are made for you- you just have to keep boosting them. Just make sure your understand your gnomish spell like abilities and how they differ from your bard spells. Don't forget your facinate, its fun.
Bulabase 07-31-04, 11:53 AM	As long as you are starting at first level, no problem. Make sure you read the description of bardic music at least three times to make sure you completely understand how it works. Pick a few cantrips that compliment the ones you get as a gnome. Concentrate at first on ranged attacks to keep yourself alive. Never understimate the power of "inspire courage." Just out of curiousity, do you have any idea what characters the other players will play?
trapspringer 07-31-04, 11:56 AM	I think the best first character is a fighter with wich one has taken a bunch of passive and reflexive feats. Passive Feat is a term I use to refer to feats which are always on, like toughness and weapon focus. These feats do not give younew abilities, they just make you better at your existing abilities. Quick-Draw is a good example of a passive feat. Reflexive Feat is a term I use to refer to feats which are used under circumstances triggered by you opponent, and require no additional actions on your part. Iron Will and Combat Reflexes are good examples of reflexive feats. It is my theory that a fighter with entirely passive or reflexive feats will always be effective, but never uber-deadly guy of death. While a fighter with no passive or reflexive feats will sometimes be uber-deadly, he will sometimes be completely incapable. So I have to say that playing a typical human fighter with feat selections of passive or reflexive feats would be the best character for a new player to use and learn to play.
Chronos 07-31-04, 02:18 PM	Yah, that is a great char., I mean, they go together perfectly, the wussiest race AND the wussiest class. Really though, if you are looking for a char that can do anything even remotely cool, this is not it. Bards, as previously stated, are a smattering of every class. Yes, they can do pretty much anything, but because they have such a wide variety of abilities, all the ablities are pretty low-powered. If you are playing D&D primarily to roleplay and don't care about if your char. can do anything, than by all means, this is a good combo. However, for most first time players I would not recomend being a bard or a gnome. </biased opinion>
Ranthanas 07-31-04, 02:23 PM	*sigh* Bards are anything but weak- but on the other hand they are very hard to play effectively. Were I teaching a newbie, I'd make his first character a bard of two levels higher than the rest of the party to give him some idea of pretty much everything. After that I wouldn't recommend he took a bard until he was really experienced and understtod the game- because in inexpert hands a bard is the weakest class (in expert, it is powerful)
fish_heads 07-31-04, 03:07 PM	this thread just reminds me of the good old days, and how much I love bards... :invasion:
Chronos 07-31-04, 04:01 PM	Originally posted by Ranthanas because in inexpert hands a bard is the weakest class (in expert, it is powerful) That is all I was saying, for a first char. a bard is not ideal. Of course I have seen maybe one well played bard, and yes, he was powerfull. Not nearly as powerful as a well played rogue though:devil:
gnomester 07-31-04, 08:57 PM	I'm still looking for a group, but I decided to create a character to be prepared. I haven't finished Plodsom Bloog Feedle Nob Merbso Dubnon's character sheet yet; I'm stuck on a few things: Armor Class (I've only gotten as far as size modifier), I don't know how to find my HP, and I don't know how to figure out saving throws. There are still more blank spaces, but those are the major ones.
gnomester 07-31-04, 08:57 PM	I'm still looking for a group, but I decided to create a character to be prepared. I haven't finished Plodsom Bloog Feedle Nob Merbso Dubnon's character sheet yet; I'm stuck on a few things: Armor Class (I've only gotten as far as size modifier), I don't know how to find my HP, and I don't know how to figure out saving throws. There are still more blank spaces, but those are the major ones.
Bait the Bard 07-31-04, 09:20 PM	It's all in the Players Hand Book. For Armor Class, where it says "Dex" you put in your Dexterity modifier, eg if you have 16 Dexterity you get a +3 to Armor Class. You hit point, as it says in the Bard entry, are d8 per level. This means that at level one you start with 8 Hit Points, plus what your Constitution modifier is. Saving throws are also under the Bard entry, on the table. Where it says "Fort, Ref, Will", those are you Base Saving Throws. They are +0 Fortitude, +2 Reflex, and +2 Will. For Fortitude you add your Constitution modifier, for Reflex you add your dexterity modifier, and for Will you add your Wisdom modifier. Fell free to ask away :) - Bait
gnomester 07-31-04, 09:32 PM	I have the handbook; I guess I missed it.
meabolex 07-31-04, 10:00 PM	Do not be mislead: the sorcerer is not an easy class to play. The only class that competes with it as the most difficult class to play is the bard. My recommendation is the barbarian as a first time gamer. It's light on mechanics and heavy on roleplaying potential. The bard is also a sophisticated class, giving you lots of skills, special abilities, spells, and combat options to worry about. I'd recommend against it -- but if you're the type of person who :love:S complexity (as yours truly does), then by all means go for it (; After playing a barbarian, the next logical class to play is either a ranger or a cleric. I'd play both (consecutively) before you played anything else. That'll give you a good idea about how skills, spells, combat, and roleplaying should work. I'd also recommend against multiclassing unless you know what you're doing. All the other classes have lots of stuff to keep up with -- when you're learning, you don't want to be bogged down by rules.
lord_blackfang 08-01-04, 05:51 PM	Originally posted by fish_heads I also played a bard as my first character. magic, rogue skills, and decent combat are all great perks, along with the ever-useful bardsong. Of course, I played a 3.0 bard, and so haste, blur, mirror image, and mage armor helped when I charged into combat. ps - our DM was....not as knowledgable as he could have been, and so my bard actually ended up being insanely overpowerd because I abused the spell list...hehehe Funny, the exact same thing happened to me :D
gnomester 08-01-04, 05:56 PM	Character sheet's nearly completed; I only have three problems. 1. Does my character have a Magic Modifier (saving throws)? 2. On page two, how do I figure out the Spell Save DC Mod? 3. How do I determine my spell save DC?
Kevtar 08-02-04, 12:25 AM	Heya, I am playing a Gnome Bard right now and have modified a PDF version of the D&D character sheet for it. Just plug in the abilities and skills ranks for your gnome and it will auto-populate the DC's for the Bard abilities, etc... One note though, on the Armor section, don't type in the "Max dex", instead, just enter your character's Dex mod. I'm still fine-tuning the sheet, but it still helps a ton. If you want it, Reply here and I'll send it to you. I'll leave my character's stats in there so you can see what you need to fill in/erase, and leave.
Frostbite_Ravenheart 08-02-04, 01:14 AM	Alright my first advice is: Never EVER Take the advice of Bait...and most definitly not when hes talking about bards. Dont let his title fool you! :angel: Second: I quite honestly dont think you should play a Gnome Bard as your first character. Start out with a fighter. You really dont need help with the fighter and dont need much direction. Its easy to use and learn and you will learn all the basics of the game. Spell-casters are a terrible choice to start off with and I think this Web-site has almost entirly agreed that Bards are one of the most if not they most hardest classes to play. There no fun if you dont know how to play them beacuse you will seem weak when infact your not. Also I suggest a human. There much easier too, not as much to worry about either. This does not stop you from being a Gnome Bard as your second character. My advice if you choice to accept it is play a Human Fighter while you learn and play the game and have fun. Than when you die/start over play as a gnome bard. Its gonna be hell trying to make a gnome bard work with your second character but if your into it give it your all and you'll do fine! -Frosty
Frostbite_Ravenheart 08-02-04, 01:14 AM	Alright my first advice is: Never EVER Take the advice of Bait...and most definitly not when hes talking about bards. Dont let his title fool you! :angel: Second: I quite honestly dont think you should play a Gnome Bard as your first character. Start out with a fighter. You really dont need help with the fighter and dont need much direction. Its easy to use and learn and you will learn all the basics of the game. Spell-casters are a terrible choice to start off with and I think this Web-site has almost entirly agreed that Bards are one of the most if not they most hardest classes to play. There no fun if you dont know how to play them beacuse you will seem weak when infact your not. Also I suggest a human. There much easier too, not as much to worry about either. This does not stop you from being a Gnome Bard as your second character. My advice if you choice to accept it is play a Human Fighter while you learn and play the game and have fun. Than when you die/start over play as a gnome bard. Its gonna be hell trying to make a gnome bard work with your second character but if your into it give it your all and you'll do fine! -Frosty
youspoonybard 08-02-04, 02:18 AM	The most important thing is to play the character you want to. You'll have more fun that way. Oh, and I vote for Druid for hardest to use core class, hands down. For a new player, anyway.
Kaminton 08-02-04, 02:44 AM	Originally posted by gnomester Character sheet's nearly completed; I only have three problems. 1. Does my character have a Magic Modifier (saving throws)? 2. On page two, how do I figure out the Spell Save DC Mod? 3. How do I determine my spell save DC? 1. Magic modifier comes from magic items. At level 1, you shouldn't have any. Look up "Cloak of Resistance" in the Wondrous Item section of the Dungeon Master's Guide for an example of an item that will give you a bonus to your saving throws. 2. Spell Save DC mod: this is your Charisma ability modifier (because you are a bard). 3. Unless you have the spell focus feat, your spell save DC is 10 + spell level + ability mod. meabolex: what's wrong with sorcerors? They're a tad difficult to keep alive at level 1, true, but with a moderately good spell selection they're not bad. Just choose one spell that does damage, and one spell that looks interesting, for your level 1 spells and you should be fine. If you find something doesn't work out so well, just swap it out later. Unlike the bard, you don't need to fine tune quite as much to get a playable (and useful) character.
gnomester 08-02-04, 06:21 PM	Originally posted by Kevtar Heya, I am playing a Gnome Bard right now and have modified a PDF version of the D&D character sheet for it. Just plug in the abilities and skills ranks for your gnome and it will auto-populate the DC's for the Bard abilities, etc... One note though, on the Armor section, don't type in the "Max dex", instead, just enter your character's Dex mod. I'm still fine-tuning the sheet, but it still helps a ton. If you want it, Reply here and I'll send it to you. I'll leave my character's stats in there so you can see what you need to fill in/erase, and leave. Thanks, I'll try that. Even though I'm almost done, I probably made several mistakes here or there. Better safe than sorry.
CaoSlayer 08-04-04, 07:27 AM	bards are fun... but as some guys have said, they have too many features... so my trick to play a bard it is to focus in two or three things at max... with a little gnome I recomend you to get focused in castings and/or skills, that means to use an arc at max as a weapon, and to max int. and cha, also getting feats for the spellcasting and/or songs. take a look to my guide in the sig, it is kinda outdated but still is nice, specially with the spells guide.