Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dead_pool 04-30-08, 12:46 PM	would it be possible to hollow out and then reinforce a five foot tall space under the entirety of a large town useing nothing more than a wand of move earth a mason an architect a carpenter and a miner, without getting ones self killed. me and my group were taxed with completely destroying a town as payment for services rendered the problem is this city is well armed and fortified so I came up wit building this huge bunker directly under rhe town with part of the structure supported by immovable rods. does this plan seem feesable
Shaggy_Shaggs 04-30-08, 01:00 PM	I know of no rule against it, but no, this would not be feasible. Even if there were no other considerations, the sheer weight of the ground and structures would require so many immovable rods it would be a bank breaker. A simpler and cheaper way to wipe out the town would be to use its fortifications against it. Heavily fortified = difficult mobility, and many choke points. Liberal applications of caltrops will make matters worse, as will wall of stone and stone shape used appropriately. These alone aren't going to do it, but they're not really the point, they're just there to enhance vulnerability to the wraiths you'll be bringing in via command undead or a sufficiently high-level rebuking cleric, and setting loose at dusk in a part of town full of weak people that can't move around easily (a prison, hospital or nursery is ideal, certain slum sections might work well also if available). In crowded conditions where mobility is limited or nonexistent for the corporeal living, the wraiths will multiply at an exponential rate and destroy the inhabitants swiftly, very likely ending the town in a single night. Even better, the wraiths will do no damage to the structures and goods in the town, leaving it ripe for harvesting. Come to think of it, you don't even need to bring in pre-existing wraiths. You can make your own with create greater undead.
Mad_Jack 05-02-08, 04:37 AM	The real problem with your plan isn't that you couldn't physically do it (assuming a really architecturally brilliant design for the supports)... It's that you couldn't do it without being *noticed*. The reason that sappers are effective during a siege is that they have an army behind them to provide a massive distraction. If you were going to do this in a manner which wouldn't attract notice, it would take a very large number of wands (move earth might not even be the most efficient spell, either) and possibly years of work, as well as a massive amount of building materials to make the supports. You're better off trying a plan that uses the town's strengths against them, as Shaggy suggests. First of all, are we talking about A. trashing some real estate to cause property damage and terror, B. killing the people but leaving the town intact, or C. an old-fashioned scorched-earth armageddon, razing the town to the ground and sowing the ground with salt? What level are you, and what alignment is the party? What resources do you have, and how many men? How many people are in the town, and what's the physical area of it? What defensive measures does it have? (high wall, few entrances, locked gates, posted guards, standing militia, pc-classed citizens/leaders, etc...) These are the questions we'll need answers to in order to suggest feasible alternatives to you original plan.... The traditional plan for trashing populated areas was to block off all means of egress and catapult disease-ridden animals or corpses over the walls, then wait til everybody died off, but that won't go over too well with a good-aligned party, and requires either siege equipment or a high-level druid. Unless you're equiped to engage in a protracted siege, you're going to need some pretty high-powered stuff to take out that many people in a short amount of time.
dead_pool 05-05-08, 01:47 AM	party specs are as such 1 Fighter7/dragonrider1 1 druid7/shifter1 1 barbarian8 2 rogue8 1 sorcerer6(cohort) 1 adept4/wizard2(cohort) 45 random leveled barbars 1 young adult bronze dragons all cn or cg a direct outside assult would be inadviseable due to the fact it is in an area that is walled off like east germany during the cold war and occupied by our main problem as of now (10- 18 level pallis and clerics). we would not even attempt this rxcept that we had to make a deal with a neighboring army so that our home citystate could be protected from said pallis and clerics. the deal we made was to destroy the town to the point that no structure is left standing.
Drackthor 05-05-08, 01:55 AM	The traditional plan for trashing populated areas was to block off all means of egress and catapult disease-ridden animals or corpses over the walls, then wait til everybody died off, but that won't go over too well with a good-aligned party, and requires either siege equipment or a high-level druid. This is one of those things that is entirely true and good information, but for some reason makes me laugh. :rofl:
Fireclave 05-05-08, 02:05 AM	1) Get a sky-high diplomacy check (which is not too hard to do) 2) Schmooze your way into the highest level of the city's government 3) Change the name of the city from Y to X. The City of Y now, officially, no longer exists. 4) ??? 5) Profit
ChaoticGood 05-05-08, 02:25 AM	1. Sneak appropriately built sorcerer into town. 2. Retreat with your army to a safe distance. 3. Set off Locate City bomb at city center. 4. Burn and raze now-empty town.
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-05-08, 02:34 AM	I don't know if his DM's going to let him bring in a new 6th level character that can leave an 80 mile deep crater where the city used to be. That'd sure get the job done, though.
kelvinaw273 05-05-08, 02:48 AM	Well if you are going to destroy a town, go traditional. Set lots of incendiary bombs around the town, then set them off simultaneously. Burn, baby, burn ...
Mad_Jack 05-06-08, 12:54 AM	occupied by our main problem as of now (10- 18 level pallis and clerics). . Paladins and clerics.... Is that... 10 of them, 18th level??:uh-huh: (Who exactly are these people?) That's going to be... problematic. How many of them are paladins and how many are clerics? Divine spellcasters entrenched in a defensive position are going to be tough to dig out, unless you can manage to pick them off one by one, but if they're that high level, they ain't gonna be dumb rabbit enough to stick their heads out of the burrow long enough for you to take the shot. The dragon on your side will be helpful for bombing raids, but high-level spellcasters will be able to provide anti-aircraft fire - possibly in the form of summoned air elementals, which will really suck for you. On the assumption that most of the buildings contain large amounts of wood, I'd suggest strafing runs over the city with alchemist's fire and any fire-related spells you can bring to bear on strategic targets such as barracks and armories, while the druid tries to figure out some way of weakening the walls through spells or summoned creatures. Unless the city has some sort of renewable watter supply within the city like a well or underground cistern, Block off their water supply as far from the city walls as you can to prevent them from putting out fires. I'm sure I can come up with a few more ideas at some point. Um... < sigh > I have to say, you're really under-equiped to be dealing with a situation like this. If at all possible, you may want to try slipping an assassination team into the city to try to take out the enemy casters.
gametaku 05-06-08, 01:42 AM	Blocking of the water supply might not be to effective, with spells such as create water, control weather, ect. First figure out what type of paladins are in the city. Trick them away using illustions, and slaughter them away from said city. Make sure the clerics can't resuract them, also.