Is it wrong to hide things from fellow players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is it wrong to hide things from fellow players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Neratos
05-11-06, 05:28 PM I am wondering if it is wrong to hide things about your character in game and out of game. The basic issue is i am playing a Dread Necro in a game with 2 pallies and other high end doo gooders. Now i am LN which is a step away from evil, and i have good tendencies, but i don't want to go around flawnting my connection to undead and stuff in the face of these characters for obvious reason. But the real problem comes in that out of game i am trying to keep my class a secret as well to prevent any out of game knowledge spilling over into the game. (which has been known to happen, even I have been guilty of this in the past)Am i just gonna cause too much trouble for the DM and other players, by doing this? :confused:

FYI i am basically claiming to be a spellcaster in game and out of game. I also use things that would give myself away very carefully so as not to just make it obvious what i am.
Shaggy_Shaggs
05-11-06, 05:36 PM Keeping your character secret from the other players is challenging, but perfectly within your rights.

Keeping your character secret from the DM, on the other hand, is grounds for being swatted on the nose with a rolled-up brick.

As long as you're not using the secrecy to betray the party or otherwise screw others out of their fun, go for it.
Neratos
05-11-06, 05:44 PM lol no i am not keeping anything from the DM, and he is helping me keep things on the down low. The whole reason i am keeping things secret is that i am playing a fairly nafarious class that has a reputation for being evil in a group of evil purgers.
Reversefigure4
05-11-06, 07:01 PM Around Paladins, this is pretty common. Even a good aligned professional theif isn't like to shout about it in front of the LG enforcers.
stargate525
05-11-06, 07:17 PM Not at all, in fact I applaud your handling of the situation. (keeping the DM informed, and making sure not to cause problems)
Tristan
05-11-06, 07:36 PM I wanted to play a LN Goblin Binder. He has had a hard enough being chased away from churches of every dictum or race (be it with a push or a pitchfork) and thus found a haven in Binding. But he knows that most people wouldn't understand his predicament, and thus keeps it a secret. He hides his signs and pretends he is a sorcerer (he usually picks the same vestige so he "has a few choice spells)

it makes sense is all

what you should do is if your players try to passively interigate you, lead em astray. If you dont have a Cleric or Paladin you can outright lie, if not you have to be more crafty. anyways, you could end up"giving in"
"Ok, to tell you the trueth, i've always liked Conjuration and enchantment. I didn't want to tell to many people about my abilites because who knows how many people out there that would want to get their hands on my secrets."
I say conjuration and enchantment on two grounds. I remembered that False life gives you temp HP, so you could pass this off as a conjuration(healing)effect. Most spells that hinder your opponents could be passed off as enchantment, you see?

keep it up, but not to many secrets, I assume your character is smart, and I belive a smart (ok, maybe wis) thing to do is to be so truethfuly that your spellcasting is the only lie, once they find out it will be to late, they will already be like brothers.

just my input
kelvinaw273
05-11-06, 08:58 PM Rehearse the following lines:

"I am NOT a necromancer, I'm just a wizard with a passing interest in Thanatology!"

"Accurate pathology recquires accurate study."

"In order to accurately predict the limitations of our foes I must perforce test their methods albeit in a controlled and carefully monitored manner. Well now the zombies are here there is no point wasting them ..."

"Naturally by studying how vampires are created I will eventually be able to devise a spell to instantly counteract them."
tiercel
05-11-06, 10:45 PM I think this is reasonable, but you just need to be careful.

It sounds like you aren't "out to get" these guys, you are just trying to avoid potential trouble, and that's cool. I think you should just do it by omission (by not advertising that you are a Dread Necromancer of DEATH BWU HA HA HAHAAAAA) as opposed to directly lying to them ("no, that was, uh, an enchantment spell, I don't like necromancy, I'm not a necromancer at all").

As long as you aren't hiding actions (secretly animating lots of zombies in your spare time), but only your background, if and when the truth comes out about you, you can simply say -- look, I just didn't tell you because I thought you might judge me prematurely. Look at what I do, not at what others call me, and judge me by my actions!

Paladins don't react well to being lied to, and don't even like having secrets concealed from them (though the latter is generally more forgivable when well meant). I would say, eventually, as you win the paladins' trust in-game, you may want to reveal your powers more overtly and show them that though you may not live up to their same high moral standards, you can still be trusted to help them and not go around doing Evil Necro Stuff. If well played, the paladins might be taken a bit aback at first but then further impressed that you would not only disclose such a "dark" secret but that you would work against "your own kind" for the greater good.

Mainly I say that eventually you should tell them *eventually* because sooner or later the truth will probably come out on its own, and its better for them to learn it from you than to learn it despite you.

To recap: I think what you are doing is OK, but you might want to consider gradually letting your partymates know (in-character) so that they can fully accept you before A Big Shocking Scandal shakes their trust in you.
LCD2YOU
05-11-06, 11:38 PM What Shaggy_Shaggs said.
syntaxerror37
05-12-06, 12:20 AM Honestly, it depends on the players. My first game of D&D (AD&D with UA) was rife with secrets between certain players and DM, party infighting and possibly a bit of favoritism. There was also the fact that we couldn’t even venture a guess someone’s alignment without a detection spell of some kind, regardless of what common sense told us.

That’s the reason when I DM I have ZERO tolerance for party infighting and why my friends and I keep no secrets out of character. Now, given you chosen class and the paladins, I can see keeping them out of the loop, but personally, I would let the players know. Honestly, I don’t know how you picked out classes without discussing it with each other, but perhaps that is just my group.
SoldierOfFortune187
05-12-06, 01:35 AM Honestly, I don't consider Necromancy an inherently 'evil' profession, in game terms. The fact that you are even able to play a practitioner of such an art as something other than an evil character supports this.

Gods and goddesses of the dead act as judges over souls, and guides to the afterlife, perfectly supported by the Lawful Neutral alignment your character has.

There shouldn't be anything -to- hide. Playing your character in the parameters of your alignment (i.e. NOT evil) shouldn't exlude the Paladin from working together with you.
Neratos
05-12-06, 02:32 AM It is the fact that half the spells on my spell list involve the evil descriptor, and that is what i need to watch. Already have had the pallies detect evil on me, and everyone they meet. Which raises a quick question, do i have a minor evil aura for using evil spells or having one active(like a residue)?

I choose my character to fill a gap the party needed, which happened to be a caster. But the group i play with is large, 8 players excluding the DM, and all the bases are well covered. The game is also set in Faerun as well if that helps at all. The fact that my character was introduced as a member of the blackstaff guild made them on gaurd to begin with lol.

Thank you for all the replies, and i made efforts to ensure that my secrets would not have any real impact besides "Good thing we didn't know at the start" reactions, and no back stabbing or hindering is involved at all.

If you have more advice plz keep it coming, i am learning a lot.
Archangel62
05-12-06, 03:52 AM I had hoped to keep that one for my character as well but it didn't work so well. The DM had forgotten that I always kept my helmet visor down for my paladin (He's a half -orc and bit self concscious about it). He mentioned it, realized his mistake, but they guys knew and they 'forgot' it but I had hoped to actually play up the idea of the mysterious knight who rarely raises his visor and seems to always be in his armor when he is watched. That and the one guy who's known him for nearly 3 months before the group form has never even seen his face.
SoldierOfFortune187
05-12-06, 11:59 AM It is the fact that half the spells on my spell list involve the evil descriptor, and that is what i need to watch.

I am uncertain then of where you are getting your spells and how you are playing your character's alignment if that is the case.

In just flipping through the PHB I wasn't able to find more than a few spells with the Evil descriptor, let alone Necromancy spells with it.

Bare in mind Necromancy, as a school focuses in creating, destroying and manipulating life forces.. not an inherently evil act. The evil comes into play when its used to perform unholy acts (in the case of spells like Blasphemy, Unholy Word), go against the forces of good (Protection from Good, Magic Circle against Good), or to animate the dead without restoring life to them (Animate Dead, Create Undead).

All of the offensive spells at your disposal (Ray of Enfeeblement, Contagion, Enervation, heck Wail of the Banshee!) do not involve any of these, hence do not have the Evil descriptor.

Given that the act of animating dead is certainly not one you'd perform in front of a Paladin you are trying to hide your identity from, what sort of spells are you or could you use that might blow your cover?
Neratos
05-12-06, 12:33 PM In just flipping through the PHB I wasn't able to find more than a few spells with the Evil descriptor, let alone Necromancy spells with it.

Well lets see what evil spells i have on my list at lvl 4. Summon Undead I and II, Death Knell, and well that is it :rofl: Guess you are right. But how should i explain my Neg Energy Burst or should i just not use it infront of them? Or are supernatural abilities hard for others to figure out what they are?
SoldierOfFortune187
05-12-06, 12:49 PM Well if your Negative Energy Burst ability mimicks the spell of the same name, it doesn't have the Evil descriptor, either.

You're right though, calling undead is an evil act and if you are serious about keeping your secret, you'll not be able to do that where the paladin could ever tie it to you.

The question is: Is performing an act you know to be evil (i.e. Summoning Undead), and hiding it or obscuring it (if you decide you have to chance it) either lawful or balancing (neutral) in nature?

I wouldn't even bother hiding it, and instead educate your paladin ally to the non-blasphemous nature of Necromancy: "There is a great deal we can learn from the dead without desecrating their spirit, my friend!"
atog_eater
05-12-06, 01:11 PM I wouldn't even bother hiding it, and instead educate your paladin ally to the non-blasphemous nature of Necromancy: "There is a great deal we can learn from the dead without desecrating their spirit, my friend!"

Don't forget to point out that you can ask the dead who killed them, making it a lot easyer to find out who massacred the village of little kiddies.

In responce to you origional question - no it's not wrong to hide things from other players or thier characters. You seem to be handling the situation perfectly well although on a character note you might enjoy picking up Libris Mortis and getting into the True Necromancer class, it's one of my fave.
Neratos
05-12-06, 01:18 PM In responce to you origional question - no it's not wrong to hide things from other players or thier characters. You seem to be handling the situation perfectly well although on a character note you might enjoy picking up Libris Mortis and getting into the True Necromancer class, it's one of my fave.

I seriously considered that, and it is one of my favs as well. But i just can't justify stopping the progression through the class, cause i get so many nifty abilities. Not to mention the lich status at 20th lvl at no cost lol
Lincoln Hills
05-12-06, 02:35 PM Don't carry the policy of secrecy too far. If confronted, acknowledge that you have studied dark lore and done evil in the past: but make it clear that you despise evil. Tell the questioners that although you have the -capacity- for black magic, you have chosen not to perform any such actions: encourage them to think of you as a soul in need of guidance to avoid falling into evil. Maybe even urge one of the paladins to offer your character moral advice on a regular basis. Make your honesty and reliability obvious and you shouldn't have a problem.

(I still recall a CE cleric in my campaign for whom the PCs had a grudging respect, because even though he was monstrous, he was honest and charming about it. ;)
bobberry109
05-12-06, 05:46 PM You've not picked an evil necromancer which is a good start. Now all you need to do is make sure that the less than angelic spells which you use, are used when the party has a choice between PC death, or having they're lives saved by some shambling monstrosity which shouldnt be walking the earth. You could also claim that summoning undead takes them from somewhere else in the world. So claim that they are no longer part of random evil guys scheme to conquer the world, and therefore your doing good in two places at once ,which is more than the paladins do (although this is a cheesy cop out).

In a game I'm currently in one of the players is a necromancer and although no character likes it (players do though gives us something to complain about). Remember its hard for the paladin type to bring the holy smackdown as the undead inevitably save our lives. morality is a terrible thing when your life is indebted to a zombie summoned by a morally dubious necromancer. ;)
Sphyre
05-12-06, 07:05 PM Well I would find keeping your class a secret out of game the hardest part. It's much easier to keep secrets in game than out of game. The reason being is that if you're talking about the game with someone in the game and they ask you a question about your character that seems harmless (what class are you?) it could blow the cover for your character. Combined with metagaming, your paladin friends may soon become your worst enemies.

As such, I suggest saying that you are a wizard, or a wizard specialized in necromancy. Many necromancy spells are evil, although if your paladins don't have knowledge(arcana) or spellcraft, they won't ever know what you're doing is evil. They do on the otherhand have knowledge(religion) and know that undead are evil, so in that respect, you may need to get excuses for.

I'm currently playing a character that actually is changing his alignment between evil and neutral because of circumstance, and the party no longer trusts him, even though he's neutral now (was turned evil from an item that he rolled a natural 1 save against an artifact trying to change his personality) due to the item being destroyed that changed his alignment.

Since the party doesn't quite trust him anymore, he has to fend off for himself, and may eventually become evil again just by virtue of the fact that he has to look out for numero uno. First and formost, he needed an item that sheilded his alignment, because they first found out when I happened to be in the paladin's "Detect Evil" scope. "Kalin!(pronounced Kay-lynn) WHY ARE YOU EVIL?" lol, *wipes a tear away* it was great ;) Funny thing is, that I didn't do anything against them, nor did I intend on doing anything against them. They probably wouldn't have cared if there wasn't a paladin in the party who refuses to work with anyone evil.

So... biggest problem is hiding the fact that you are evil. With appropriate DM assistance it shouldn't be too hard, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.
Ziggaraut
05-12-06, 10:30 PM Spellthieves keep secrets all the time. It even says it requires a DC 20 Knowledge (Arcana) check to even know the Spellthieves exist! If Spellthieves can keep secrets from the party ("I'm a rogue mainly, though I dabble in wild magic. You know, weak spells most of the time, and strong spells others? No, there is absolutlely no connection between that ogre mage I attacked and the Cone of Cold I just used.")

Why not the Dread Necro?
geekling
05-13-06, 05:37 AM Spellthieves keep secrets all the time. It even says it requires a DC 20 Knowledge (Arcana) check to even know the Spellthieves exist!

Heh!

I was just going to drag out my little spellthief/rogue gnome.

None of the other characters knows about the stealing spells part and that's after ummm... a few months - to hell and back - game time, or coming up on a year real time.

She's just a rogue, well actually she's just a rogue who has perhaps a little bit of talent in the arcane. As she's just reached that fourth level of spellthief when she gets to cast a spell of her own per day, and being the type of gnome she is - she pretty much held a party to celebrate the occation and told just about everyone who'd stand still for more than 10 seconds that she was becoming a great wizard, she'd just learnt how to magic it to run faster than the wind (expedious retreat.)

Mind you they have found out about her racial spell like abilities by now. But for more than 3/4 of being around that lot, she kept those secret too. It just would have spoiled the joke of random party members waking up at random times with pink boots.

So no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping secrets about what your character can and can not do, or what class he/she is from the other players at the table or their characters. As far as I'm concerned it can even add to the game, keeps you from thinking in class stereotypes and just look at the other characters as characters. As Bob, the guy with an anger management issue who'se really working on his uncouth habits - not Bob, the barbarian.
Gilean
05-14-06, 03:54 PM I prefer to not keep secrets. Makes for a better game, and everyone is on the occasional irony that may face soem characters.
Of course, keeping OOC information out of certain PC decisions is something my players can do.
Witchblade
05-14-06, 05:56 PM I've played a Psion (Telepath) once, but Psionics were generally unknown in the world and Magic was stigmatised. I actually managed to let the party believe I was a Rogue for 3 sessions, then situations forced me to use Psionics so I told the party I was a Sorcerer. They still don't know. :D
Wonton2006
05-14-06, 08:14 PM We have a similar issue in our games. The druid is NE, while everyone else is CG, NG or N. We agreed that he could do it as long as it had no effect on US, and as long as he bought a potion of undetectable alignment (them pallies, they'd put ALL of us to jail just for being NEAR someone evil). It works. He and his animal companion like finishing off our enemies, and he allows it to feed on their remains after we're long gone.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neratos 05-11-06, 05:28 PM	I am wondering if it is wrong to hide things about your character in game and out of game. The basic issue is i am playing a Dread Necro in a game with 2 pallies and other high end doo gooders. Now i am LN which is a step away from evil, and i have good tendencies, but i don't want to go around flawnting my connection to undead and stuff in the face of these characters for obvious reason. But the real problem comes in that out of game i am trying to keep my class a secret as well to prevent any out of game knowledge spilling over into the game. (which has been known to happen, even I have been guilty of this in the past)Am i just gonna cause too much trouble for the DM and other players, by doing this? :confused: FYI i am basically claiming to be a spellcaster in game and out of game. I also use things that would give myself away very carefully so as not to just make it obvious what i am.
Shaggy_Shaggs 05-11-06, 05:36 PM	Keeping your character secret from the other players is challenging, but perfectly within your rights. Keeping your character secret from the DM, on the other hand, is grounds for being swatted on the nose with a rolled-up brick. As long as you're not using the secrecy to betray the party or otherwise screw others out of their fun, go for it.
Neratos 05-11-06, 05:44 PM	lol no i am not keeping anything from the DM, and he is helping me keep things on the down low. The whole reason i am keeping things secret is that i am playing a fairly nafarious class that has a reputation for being evil in a group of evil purgers.
Reversefigure4 05-11-06, 07:01 PM	Around Paladins, this is pretty common. Even a good aligned professional theif isn't like to shout about it in front of the LG enforcers.
stargate525 05-11-06, 07:17 PM	Not at all, in fact I applaud your handling of the situation. (keeping the DM informed, and making sure not to cause problems)
Tristan 05-11-06, 07:36 PM	I wanted to play a LN Goblin Binder. He has had a hard enough being chased away from churches of every dictum or race (be it with a push or a pitchfork) and thus found a haven in Binding. But he knows that most people wouldn't understand his predicament, and thus keeps it a secret. He hides his signs and pretends he is a sorcerer (he usually picks the same vestige so he "has a few choice spells) it makes sense is all what you should do is if your players try to passively interigate you, lead em astray. If you dont have a Cleric or Paladin you can outright lie, if not you have to be more crafty. anyways, you could end up"giving in" "Ok, to tell you the trueth, i've always liked Conjuration and enchantment. I didn't want to tell to many people about my abilites because who knows how many people out there that would want to get their hands on my secrets." I say conjuration and enchantment on two grounds. I remembered that False life gives you temp HP, so you could pass this off as a conjuration(healing)effect. Most spells that hinder your opponents could be passed off as enchantment, you see? keep it up, but not to many secrets, I assume your character is smart, and I belive a smart (ok, maybe wis) thing to do is to be so truethfuly that your spellcasting is the only lie, once they find out it will be to late, they will already be like brothers. just my input
kelvinaw273 05-11-06, 08:58 PM	Rehearse the following lines: "I am NOT a necromancer, I'm just a wizard with a passing interest in Thanatology!" "Accurate pathology recquires accurate study." "In order to accurately predict the limitations of our foes I must perforce test their methods albeit in a controlled and carefully monitored manner. Well now the zombies are here there is no point wasting them ..." "Naturally by studying how vampires are created I will eventually be able to devise a spell to instantly counteract them."
tiercel 05-11-06, 10:45 PM	I think this is reasonable, but you just need to be careful. It sounds like you aren't "out to get" these guys, you are just trying to avoid potential trouble, and that's cool. I think you should just do it by omission (by not advertising that you are a Dread Necromancer of DEATH BWU HA HA HAHAAAAA) as opposed to directly lying to them ("no, that was, uh, an enchantment spell, I don't like necromancy, I'm not a necromancer at all"). As long as you aren't hiding actions (secretly animating lots of zombies in your spare time), but only your background, if and when the truth comes out about you, you can simply say -- look, I just didn't tell you because I thought you might judge me prematurely. Look at what I do, not at what others call me, and judge me by my actions! Paladins don't react well to being lied to, and don't even like having secrets concealed from them (though the latter is generally more forgivable when well meant). I would say, eventually, as you win the paladins' trust in-game, you may want to reveal your powers more overtly and show them that though you may not live up to their same high moral standards, you can still be trusted to help them and not go around doing Evil Necro Stuff. If well played, the paladins might be taken a bit aback at first but then further impressed that you would not only disclose such a "dark" secret but that you would work against "your own kind" for the greater good. Mainly I say that eventually you should tell them eventually because sooner or later the truth will probably come out on its own, and its better for them to learn it from you than to learn it despite you. To recap: I think what you are doing is OK, but you might want to consider gradually letting your partymates know (in-character) so that they can fully accept you before A Big Shocking Scandal shakes their trust in you.
LCD2YOU 05-11-06, 11:38 PM	What Shaggy_Shaggs said.
syntaxerror37 05-12-06, 12:20 AM	Honestly, it depends on the players. My first game of D&D (AD&D with UA) was rife with secrets between certain players and DM, party infighting and possibly a bit of favoritism. There was also the fact that we couldn’t even venture a guess someone’s alignment without a detection spell of some kind, regardless of what common sense told us. That’s the reason when I DM I have ZERO tolerance for party infighting and why my friends and I keep no secrets out of character. Now, given you chosen class and the paladins, I can see keeping them out of the loop, but personally, I would let the players know. Honestly, I don’t know how you picked out classes without discussing it with each other, but perhaps that is just my group.
SoldierOfFortune187 05-12-06, 01:35 AM	Honestly, I don't consider Necromancy an inherently 'evil' profession, in game terms. The fact that you are even able to play a practitioner of such an art as something other than an evil character supports this. Gods and goddesses of the dead act as judges over souls, and guides to the afterlife, perfectly supported by the Lawful Neutral alignment your character has. There shouldn't be anything -to- hide. Playing your character in the parameters of your alignment (i.e. NOT evil) shouldn't exlude the Paladin from working together with you.
Neratos 05-12-06, 02:32 AM	It is the fact that half the spells on my spell list involve the evil descriptor, and that is what i need to watch. Already have had the pallies detect evil on me, and everyone they meet. Which raises a quick question, do i have a minor evil aura for using evil spells or having one active(like a residue)? I choose my character to fill a gap the party needed, which happened to be a caster. But the group i play with is large, 8 players excluding the DM, and all the bases are well covered. The game is also set in Faerun as well if that helps at all. The fact that my character was introduced as a member of the blackstaff guild made them on gaurd to begin with lol. Thank you for all the replies, and i made efforts to ensure that my secrets would not have any real impact besides "Good thing we didn't know at the start" reactions, and no back stabbing or hindering is involved at all. If you have more advice plz keep it coming, i am learning a lot.
Archangel62 05-12-06, 03:52 AM	I had hoped to keep that one for my character as well but it didn't work so well. The DM had forgotten that I always kept my helmet visor down for my paladin (He's a half -orc and bit self concscious about it). He mentioned it, realized his mistake, but they guys knew and they 'forgot' it but I had hoped to actually play up the idea of the mysterious knight who rarely raises his visor and seems to always be in his armor when he is watched. That and the one guy who's known him for nearly 3 months before the group form has never even seen his face.
SoldierOfFortune187 05-12-06, 11:59 AM	It is the fact that half the spells on my spell list involve the evil descriptor, and that is what i need to watch. I am uncertain then of where you are getting your spells and how you are playing your character's alignment if that is the case. In just flipping through the PHB I wasn't able to find more than a few spells with the Evil descriptor, let alone Necromancy spells with it. Bare in mind Necromancy, as a school focuses in creating, destroying and manipulating life forces.. not an inherently evil act. The evil comes into play when its used to perform unholy acts (in the case of spells like Blasphemy, Unholy Word), go against the forces of good (Protection from Good, Magic Circle against Good), or to animate the dead without restoring life to them (Animate Dead, Create Undead). All of the offensive spells at your disposal (Ray of Enfeeblement, Contagion, Enervation, heck Wail of the Banshee!) do not involve any of these, hence do not have the Evil descriptor. Given that the act of animating dead is certainly not one you'd perform in front of a Paladin you are trying to hide your identity from, what sort of spells are you or could you use that might blow your cover?
Neratos 05-12-06, 12:33 PM	In just flipping through the PHB I wasn't able to find more than a few spells with the Evil descriptor, let alone Necromancy spells with it. Well lets see what evil spells i have on my list at lvl 4. Summon Undead I and II, Death Knell, and well that is it :rofl: Guess you are right. But how should i explain my Neg Energy Burst or should i just not use it infront of them? Or are supernatural abilities hard for others to figure out what they are?
SoldierOfFortune187 05-12-06, 12:49 PM	Well if your Negative Energy Burst ability mimicks the spell of the same name, it doesn't have the Evil descriptor, either. You're right though, calling undead is an evil act and if you are serious about keeping your secret, you'll not be able to do that where the paladin could ever tie it to you. The question is: Is performing an act you know to be evil (i.e. Summoning Undead), and hiding it or obscuring it (if you decide you have to chance it) either lawful or balancing (neutral) in nature? I wouldn't even bother hiding it, and instead educate your paladin ally to the non-blasphemous nature of Necromancy: "There is a great deal we can learn from the dead without desecrating their spirit, my friend!"
atog_eater 05-12-06, 01:11 PM	I wouldn't even bother hiding it, and instead educate your paladin ally to the non-blasphemous nature of Necromancy: "There is a great deal we can learn from the dead without desecrating their spirit, my friend!" Don't forget to point out that you can ask the dead who killed them, making it a lot easyer to find out who massacred the village of little kiddies. In responce to you origional question - no it's not wrong to hide things from other players or thier characters. You seem to be handling the situation perfectly well although on a character note you might enjoy picking up Libris Mortis and getting into the True Necromancer class, it's one of my fave.
Neratos 05-12-06, 01:18 PM	In responce to you origional question - no it's not wrong to hide things from other players or thier characters. You seem to be handling the situation perfectly well although on a character note you might enjoy picking up Libris Mortis and getting into the True Necromancer class, it's one of my fave. I seriously considered that, and it is one of my favs as well. But i just can't justify stopping the progression through the class, cause i get so many nifty abilities. Not to mention the lich status at 20th lvl at no cost lol
Lincoln Hills 05-12-06, 02:35 PM	Don't carry the policy of secrecy too far. If confronted, acknowledge that you have studied dark lore and done evil in the past: but make it clear that you despise evil. Tell the questioners that although you have the -capacity- for black magic, you have chosen not to perform any such actions: encourage them to think of you as a soul in need of guidance to avoid falling into evil. Maybe even urge one of the paladins to offer your character moral advice on a regular basis. Make your honesty and reliability obvious and you shouldn't have a problem. (I still recall a CE cleric in my campaign for whom the PCs had a grudging respect, because even though he was monstrous, he was honest and charming about it. ;)
bobberry109 05-12-06, 05:46 PM	You've not picked an evil necromancer which is a good start. Now all you need to do is make sure that the less than angelic spells which you use, are used when the party has a choice between PC death, or having they're lives saved by some shambling monstrosity which shouldnt be walking the earth. You could also claim that summoning undead takes them from somewhere else in the world. So claim that they are no longer part of random evil guys scheme to conquer the world, and therefore your doing good in two places at once ,which is more than the paladins do (although this is a cheesy cop out). In a game I'm currently in one of the players is a necromancer and although no character likes it (players do though gives us something to complain about). Remember its hard for the paladin type to bring the holy smackdown as the undead inevitably save our lives. morality is a terrible thing when your life is indebted to a zombie summoned by a morally dubious necromancer. ;)
Sphyre 05-12-06, 07:05 PM	Well I would find keeping your class a secret out of game the hardest part. It's much easier to keep secrets in game than out of game. The reason being is that if you're talking about the game with someone in the game and they ask you a question about your character that seems harmless (what class are you?) it could blow the cover for your character. Combined with metagaming, your paladin friends may soon become your worst enemies. As such, I suggest saying that you are a wizard, or a wizard specialized in necromancy. Many necromancy spells are evil, although if your paladins don't have knowledge(arcana) or spellcraft, they won't ever know what you're doing is evil. They do on the otherhand have knowledge(religion) and know that undead are evil, so in that respect, you may need to get excuses for. I'm currently playing a character that actually is changing his alignment between evil and neutral because of circumstance, and the party no longer trusts him, even though he's neutral now (was turned evil from an item that he rolled a natural 1 save against an artifact trying to change his personality) due to the item being destroyed that changed his alignment. Since the party doesn't quite trust him anymore, he has to fend off for himself, and may eventually become evil again just by virtue of the fact that he has to look out for numero uno. First and formost, he needed an item that sheilded his alignment, because they first found out when I happened to be in the paladin's "Detect Evil" scope. "Kalin!(pronounced Kay-lynn) WHY ARE YOU EVIL?" lol, wipes a tear away it was great ;) Funny thing is, that I didn't do anything against them, nor did I intend on doing anything against them. They probably wouldn't have cared if there wasn't a paladin in the party who refuses to work with anyone evil. So... biggest problem is hiding the fact that you are evil. With appropriate DM assistance it shouldn't be too hard, but it doesn't mean it won't happen.
Ziggaraut 05-12-06, 10:30 PM	Spellthieves keep secrets all the time. It even says it requires a DC 20 Knowledge (Arcana) check to even know the Spellthieves exist! If Spellthieves can keep secrets from the party ("I'm a rogue mainly, though I dabble in wild magic. You know, weak spells most of the time, and strong spells others? No, there is absolutlely no connection between that ogre mage I attacked and the Cone of Cold I just used.") Why not the Dread Necro?
geekling 05-13-06, 05:37 AM	Spellthieves keep secrets all the time. It even says it requires a DC 20 Knowledge (Arcana) check to even know the Spellthieves exist! Heh! I was just going to drag out my little spellthief/rogue gnome. None of the other characters knows about the stealing spells part and that's after ummm... a few months - to hell and back - game time, or coming up on a year real time. She's just a rogue, well actually she's just a rogue who has perhaps a little bit of talent in the arcane. As she's just reached that fourth level of spellthief when she gets to cast a spell of her own per day, and being the type of gnome she is - she pretty much held a party to celebrate the occation and told just about everyone who'd stand still for more than 10 seconds that she was becoming a great wizard, she'd just learnt how to magic it to run faster than the wind (expedious retreat.) Mind you they have found out about her racial spell like abilities by now. But for more than 3/4 of being around that lot, she kept those secret too. It just would have spoiled the joke of random party members waking up at random times with pink boots. So no, there's absolutely nothing wrong with keeping secrets about what your character can and can not do, or what class he/she is from the other players at the table or their characters. As far as I'm concerned it can even add to the game, keeps you from thinking in class stereotypes and just look at the other characters as characters. As Bob, the guy with an anger management issue who'se really working on his uncouth habits - not Bob, the barbarian.
Gilean 05-14-06, 03:54 PM	I prefer to not keep secrets. Makes for a better game, and everyone is on the occasional irony that may face soem characters. Of course, keeping OOC information out of certain PC decisions is something my players can do.
Witchblade 05-14-06, 05:56 PM	I've played a Psion (Telepath) once, but Psionics were generally unknown in the world and Magic was stigmatised. I actually managed to let the party believe I was a Rogue for 3 sessions, then situations forced me to use Psionics so I told the party I was a Sorcerer. They still don't know. :D
Wonton2006 05-14-06, 08:14 PM	We have a similar issue in our games. The druid is NE, while everyone else is CG, NG or N. We agreed that he could do it as long as it had no effect on US, and as long as he bought a potion of undetectable alignment (them pallies, they'd put ALL of us to jail just for being NEAR someone evil). It works. He and his animal companion like finishing off our enemies, and he allows it to feed on their remains after we're long gone.