Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PiedmonSama 12-03-06, 06:55 PM	Having some trouble deciding what Alignment fits this character best, so I thought I'd tell you about him and get some feedback. Henri-Alain d'Ketrienne was born the third son of a minor duke in a lesser province of the Kingdom. The third son had been away in the capital for years studying politics, while the second had joined the military years ago. However, an infamous act of cowardice in a battle against orcs disgraced that son and blackened the name of Ketrienne. Thus Henri was born under a somber pall that weighed down on Ketrienne keep for years, as the duke grew distant from his family. Angered by his father's absence and the stigma of his name, Henri-Alain swore to become a great fighter and restore his family's reputation. He violently rejected his preselected path of joining the clergy and sought out a traveling weaponmaster, paying him out of his own pocket since the Duke had forbidden him lessons. As a result of this, Henri learned an unorthodox fighting style specializing in the fast and deadly rapier, rather than the sturdy longswords more kin to his station. He revealed this act to his father when he was still a teenager, and demanded he be knighted so he could begin his quest. The father refused. Enraged, Henri-Alain exclaimed that knight or no, he was still a Ketrienne and his deeds would reflect on the line in anycase. He rode out of the keep that night, though his father had not the heart to disown him. Henri decided that he would find glory and redemption on the edge of his sword--he merely needed a cause, something to fight for, and that is what he seeks as his journey begins.... Now here's where it gets tricky. Everything I've described so far suggests a straightforward Chaotic Good character. After all, he rejected his planned career, went behind his family's back and stormed out when his subversions were rejected. Yet he undoubtedly means well, wanting to restore his family's honor (and, on a more personal level, gain his father's acceptance.) On the other hand, if you look more closely than the broad course of his life and at his day-to-day functions, the guy screams "Lawful Good" to me. Knighted or not, he lives by the code of chivalry. I plan to have him tell everyone that he is a knight, and he certainly behaves like one---using his sword to defend the weak, paying foes respect, obeying all but the most flagrantly corrupt laws and living a life of service to king and people. So I suppose the question is, what makes him Chaotic or Lawful? Is he lawful for living by a set code, or chaotic for "usurping" that code? Is he lawful for living by rigid discipline, or chaotic for being, uh.... French and "le tired." Any insights my fellow posters would care to shed on this quandary would be greatly appreciated, thanks.
DarkNick 12-03-06, 07:11 PM	He could be either. In fact from your description he could be a lot of things. Personally I don't think he is all that lawful towards the organisation of 'knights' he says he belongs to. He is not exactly respecting their traditions. So I would say he is not exactly Lawful to the very thing he says he follows. I don't think you should stress about it. Pick one and leave it it that. It sounds like it won't have any influence on the way you play so you might as well ignore it. I would lean towards CG or NG, simply because I think that if he was LG of LN then I don't think he would sully the name of knighthood by pretending to be a knight. His lawfulness to being a knight should include him actually wanting to earn the right to be called a knight (also its hardly a good thing trying to regain the honor of your family by pretending to be a knight). "a lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act" (does not sound like this character) "A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him" (this sounds more like you dude)
Daeren 12-03-06, 07:13 PM	Neutral Good. Problem solved.
Torbida 12-03-06, 07:37 PM	This char has done no Evil that I am able to see. This char has not sacrificed himself in any way. This char has lied and gone against his fatherīs wishes. This char seeks to restore honor and prestige to his name. He is neither Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic. IMHO there are a lot of people that are ready to claim that their char is good when they are really not. The char you just describe wants to restore his familyīs honor and he will do so in his way. Neither Law nor Chaos. He will do so while adventuring but he will be virtuos while adventuring. Allow me to explain, adventuring is selfish. Adventurers adventure for money, power, and fame. Not one of these traits are Good. They are not inherently Evil either. You are out for yourself, no more no less. Neutral. This guy sounds more like a brash, young man who is going to join the army and make daddy proud by being the best and being merciful while doing so. Neutral. Most people in our world are Neutral. Being Good takes a little more. Loving your family is no challenge. Good is when you love everyone, even strangers and you have a general sense of Good from the world. Not just a nice guy to hang around with but a true friend to everyone who needs even if they donīt ask. That is Good. Being Neutral isnīt bad. Most PC adventurers are Neutral. True Neutral is the alignment to be when you are not sure what you are.
Newpaintbrush 12-03-06, 08:09 PM	Oh, he's chaotic all right. He "didn't want to" be the cleric that tradition demanded. He made a decision out of anger, and violently rejected a path. He "demanded to be knighted". If you had the story like "The charcter was determined to restore his personal and family honor, and stuck fast to maintaining a steady training regimen to acquire the skills he would need, then had an argument with his father because although the character was determined to act according to his principles to do what he thought was right, his father disagreed with his course of actions" . . . etc. etc. See, one way says your character is brash and impulsive. The other way says your character stuck to a personal code of honor. You can have the SAME ACTIONS without being forced along the path of law or chaos. It is WHY you do your actions that determines if you are lawful or chaotic. Given the character's impulsive nature, I think it is clear that he is chaotic.
PiedmonSama 12-04-06, 03:48 AM	This char has done no Evil that I am able to see. This char has not sacrificed himself in any way. This char has lied and gone against his fatherīs wishes. This char seeks to restore honor and prestige to his name. He is neither Good, Evil, Lawful, or Chaotic. IMHO there are a lot of people that are ready to claim that their char is good when they are really not. The char you just describe wants to restore his familyīs honor and he will do so in his way. Neither Law nor Chaos. He will do so while adventuring but he will be virtuos while adventuring. Allow me to explain, adventuring is selfish. Adventurers adventure for money, power, and fame. Not one of these traits are Good. They are not inherently Evil either. You are out for yourself, no more no less. Neutral. This guy sounds more like a brash, young man who is going to join the army and make daddy proud by being the best and being merciful while doing so. Neutral. Most people in our world are Neutral. Being Good takes a little more. Loving your family is no challenge. Good is when you love everyone, even strangers and you have a general sense of Good from the world. Not just a nice guy to hang around with but a true friend to everyone who needs even if they donīt ask. That is Good. Being Neutral isnīt bad. Most PC adventurers are Neutral. True Neutral is the alignment to be when you are not sure what you are. Normally I'm willing to agree that most people are Neutral rather than Good or Evil. Most of us would be willing to risk ourselves for friends and family, but few would willingly put ourselves at risk for a stranger. However, that is exactly what Henri is doing. He lives by the code of Chivalry. He will render aid to anyone who needs it regardless of "benefit" for him. I guess you could argue that he does "benefit" as it helps restore the reputation of his family name, but I don't think a bit of self-interest diminishes the good he is doing. From what I can otherwise see, the verdict seems to strongly come down for Chaotic. Fair enough, that agrees with my first instinct anyway. Thanks all for the comments and contributions.
draco1119 12-04-06, 03:57 AM	Normally I'm willing to agree that most people are Neutral rather than Good or Evil. Most of us would be willing to risk ourselves for friends and family, but few would willingly put ourselves at risk for a stranger. However, that is exactly what Henri is doing. He lives by the code of Chivalry. He will render aid to anyone who needs it regardless of "benefit" for him. Or you could skip the part where he tells people he is a knight, and have him say that he is trying to get his family name restored, and hopefully be knighted by the king. Then he's LG or LN. I think... :)
Sphere 12-04-06, 04:47 AM	This looks chaotic neutral, to me at least. Neutral people risk their lives for people because they want something. Like money or fame or even just to spend another day with them. To be good you would have to help someone without the intent of gaining anything in the process. You don't have to risk your life, they don't even have to be in dire need of help. Being evil is easy, just cause harm to people to get ahead. You have already got down the chaotic part, but I would just like to add that living by the rules is not a lawful thing, its neutral. You have to uphold and enforce the rules to qualify as lawful. That is all just imho anyway.
Orchomenos 12-04-06, 02:10 PM	Interresting dilemma! Neutral people risk their lives for people because they want something. Like money or fame or even just to spend another day with them. To be good you would have to help someone without the intent of gaining anything in the process. You don't have to risk your life, they don't even have to be in dire need of help. Being evil is easy, just cause harm to people to get ahead. I was going to say he doesn't intent of gaining anything. But it's false. He does want to gain a better repute. But he's far from being evil. He lied to his father, and betrayed him; but his goal was to wash the family name. That makes him unlawful, but not un-good. So he's NG. He wishes to become LG, but since he keep on lying, telling he's a knight, that keep him away from LG.
Sphere 12-04-06, 04:00 PM	Interresting dilemma! I was going to say he doesn't intent of gaining anything. But it's false. He does want to gain a better repute. But he's far from being evil. He lied to his father, and betrayed him; but his goal was to wash the family name. That makes him unlawful, but not un-good. So he's NG. He wishes to become LG, but since he keep on lying, telling he's a knight, that keep him away from LG. People are inherently neutral, to become good you must do good things. To become lawful you must do lawful things. The only things this guy has done up until now are quite chaotic. Learning sword skills, ditching school, defying the local ruler and going out into the world, because he wants to and he can. Just because someone wants to be a knight, doesnt mean that they act like one. I think it makes him a bit more interesting in that respect.