Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Animae_Draconum 12-14-06, 10:59 AM	The campaign I currently play in is at ECL 2 and the DM has a few house rules that I believe will make things insane. Granted I am the only player who will optimize their character, but I also roleplay a bit more than the rest of my party too. So heres the rundown of the dreaded house rules PC's....possible to get as many as 6 starting feats Skills...Ranks+bonuses can qualify you for PrC's Sorc Base Class...d8 HD, double spells known and multiply spells per day by 1.5(round up) if you have no familiar PrC's....All caster PrC's have full spellcasting progression Casting a spell off a scroll counts as beign able to cast an X level spell Needless to say I'm playign a sorcerer and I'm about to go into incantatrix at 3rd level Does anyone else see some serious power issues here? A_D
Mindolin 12-14-06, 11:07 AM	Your DM is insane. And here I thought my houserules might be a bit high powered. Does he beef up anyone else, or just the sorcerer?
aotrscommander 12-14-06, 11:08 AM	The campaign I currently play in is at ECL 2 and the DM has a few house rules that I believe will make things insane. Granted I am the only player who will optimize their character, but I also roleplay a bit more than the rest of my party too. So heres the rundown of the dreaded house rules PC's....possible to get as many as 6 starting feats Skills...Ranks+bonuses can qualify you for PrC's Sorc Base Class...d8 HD, double spells known and multiply spells per day by 1.5(round up) if you have no familiar PrC's....All caster PrC's have full spellcasting progression Casting a spell off a scroll counts as beign able to cast an X level spell Needless to say I'm playign a sorcerer and I'm about to go into incantatrix at 3rd level Does anyone else see some serious power issues here? A_D Yup. Is your DM inexperienced or young?
Serrin 12-14-06, 11:08 AM	Yes, that campaign is balanced about as well as an elephant on rollerskates. And I see no reason you can't go into Incantatrix at level 2.
BlueBlazer 12-14-06, 11:47 AM	Yes, that sounds like there are going to be serious power issues. I should probably admit that I don't share the common view of Overpowered or Unbalancing. Some DMs consider something overpowered/unbalancing if it's more powerful than usual, if it makes a PC hit harder/harder to hit/etc. than s/he "should" be (usually for a level x character). I usually scale the monsters/NPCs etc. so as to provide a challenge (so I don't care whether a PC does more damage than s/he "should" at level x), I only consider something overpowered or unbalanced when looking at it vis-à-vis the party (if it makes one party member significantly more powerful than the rest of the party). And in your case, it looks like magic users are much more powerful than usual, and arcane magic users more powerful yet, with sorcs being the sort of Cream Of The Overpowered Crop. Since this'll mean the magic using PCs will probably outshine the fighters/rogues/etc. there is potential for unbalanced play. Maybe everyone in your party will be a sorcerer or magic PrC, in which case it'll be okay, but if you've got the typical party breakdown, I get the feeling you're going to be bored/unchallenged while the tanks/scouts/etc. are all dying more often, underpowered (compared to you) and eventually resentful. I suggest voting down the house rules. What's up with them, anyway, does your DM just have a deep-seated devotion to PrC/Sorcs? How is coupling a d8 hitdie with arcane destructive power a good idea (and sorcs have more hp than rogues/bards? as much as rangers?)? How is giving up a familiar worth that much spell power (and why can't wizards do the same?)? You can do as you like, and if it works out more power to you, but I suspect your character is going to completely outshine the rest of the group (again, assuming they're not all sorcs, which if I were playing with those rules I wouldn't even consider playing anything but). Oh, and evil sorcs are going to tear everyone but you (and fellow sorcs) to pieces. PS. Mixing incantatrix with that über-sorc is just frosting on the overpowered muffin. Usually the incant. isn't too bad, but with those houserules... then again, with those houserules it would be silly not to do it (as I assume plenty of baddies will go that route). PPS. I don't think you're optimizing here, just taking advantage of an insane set-up. Ideally you'll shoot down these houserules, but if the DM insists upon using them at least your character will survive the first of many encounters with über-sorcs (even if the rest of your party doesn't).
Animae_Draconum 12-14-06, 12:54 PM	My DM is neither inexpreienced or young I think its a test to see if I can manage to carry the whole party by myself without stealing the show. I am the only arcane caster and the only player who realizes how powerful this actually is. Also the DM has allowed gestalt and everyoen is takign advantage of this but not PrC benefits. so, my current build is Sor/Cleric 2 A_D
aotrscommander 12-14-06, 05:05 PM	My DM is neither inexpreienced or young I think its a test to see if I can manage to carry the whole party by myself without stealing the show. I am the only arcane caster and the only player who realizes how powerful this actually is. Also the DM has allowed gestalt and everyoen is takign advantage of this but not PrC benefits. so, my current build is Sor/Cleric 2 A_D Hm. Reason I asked was my first thought that it sounded like the kind of (well-intentioned) mistake newbie DMs make (I speak from personal experience, I was young (technically) once). I would be concerned, then, if he's going to give you all that, the you will either cake-walk everything (perhaps single-handed) or you'll run into srious trouble fro equally maxed-out enemies. It seems a bit odd to me as well that your DM adds all these freebies out, rather than you or him help the other, not-so mechanically inclind players... I sense trouble of the horizon one way or another (but if it goes swimmingly, then good luck to you...)
Fatalis_902 12-14-06, 06:35 PM	Don't walk, this sounds fun. If you like the rules (which you seem to), then play as you are planning. I f you don't, talk to him. If he doesn't listen, deal with it. If you can't, show him his mistakes by destroying anything that moves, breathes, or exists. ...Seriously, don't try to break his campaign unless he really screws up. Even then, try to work it out rationally, and DO NOT EVER RESORT TO PUN-PUN OR PUN-PUN-ESQUE CHARACTERS!!!
Animae_Draconum 12-14-06, 07:07 PM	Thanks everyone for the feedback, I do believe these house rules need to be voted down immediately, gestalt is ok but the PrC entry is what uttterly breaks things. as for spells per day, I as a player can be responsible enough not to abuse this. A_D
Chrono Nexus 12-14-06, 07:27 PM	Don't make multiple threads about the same topic please. It's good to see you have restraint, but if you're going to nerf the game, do it fairly and nerf everything evenly.
High Octane 12-14-06, 08:39 PM	Im going to go out on a limb and say this is the guys first time DMing. Let him get the hard-on for arcanists out of his system.
FeceMan 12-15-06, 06:30 PM	How are stats for PCs done?
Aegeu 12-15-06, 09:58 PM	There is no way you can play an arcane caster without stealing the show. Either persuade/help your friends to add casting to their builds or ask your DM to tone it down. :mrt: who uses these rules
Salla 12-15-06, 10:05 PM	Oh ... my ... dog. My inner munchkin just had a stroke. HIS inner munchkin just had a heart attack, and HIS inner munchkin just spontaneously combusted.
Animae_Draconum 12-15-06, 11:01 PM	we had a choice as far as stats went 4d8 and drop the lowest score, or a 32 point buy with a 1 for 1 ratio but you couldnt have higher than an 18 in anything Players recieved a choice upon creation of an amazing item granted for free or the DM's choice, or 3 free feats of the DM's choice. I chose the feats Races were modified and lets just say elves are so good they would make a dragon S**T himself. However they are rare to see outside their forests so there are only 2 in the party, myself and the cleric archer. We are both nobility. There were a few custom feats for characters upon creation Potent Blood-You carry within you greater power from a celestial ancestor. Prerequisite:Gentry, Elf or Dwarf Effect: add +4 racial bonus to an ability score you already have a racial bonus in already Legacy-You recieved a great sense of a family legacy passed down from your living ancestry spanning at least 3 generations back. Prerequisite:Gentry, Elf Effect: add +4 racial bonus to an ability score you already have a racial bonus in already My ability scores are as follows... 10 24 22 16 22 32 My feat selection was this... 1. Sacred Vow DM Choice: Gentry, Legacy, Potent Blood Flaw: Vow Of Poverty Flaw: Purify Spell 2:Touch Of Golden Ice Maybe the additional info helps A_D
Salla 12-15-06, 11:15 PM	(snip) Maybe the additional info helps A_D :uh-huh: :OMG! What. The. ****??!! Dude ... run for your life. This game is going to be a farce.
Amon_WinterfallIV 12-16-06, 12:47 AM	I think this could be pretty awesome, if it's somehow balanced. With all those extra feats, and those ability scores, and all those superpowered arcane classes, everything seems to be getting a strong upward push. If he does this for his NPCs, you've got a serious high-stakes matchup coming. If he doesn't, you probably be balanced against way hard CRs (or they would be way hard, if they were optimized in like fashion). Good luck, this sounds like a monster game in all respects.
Animae_Draconum 12-16-06, 01:58 AM	It became clear tonight how imbalanced it really is. After a 16 hour session the current party stands as follows Barb/Rog 2, FB/Barb 4 Ftr/Rog 2, Dread Pirate/Ninja 4 Ftr/Rog 2, Spymaster/Rog 4 Clr/Rgr 2, Dweomerkeeper/Crusader 4 Ftr/Mnk 2, Tattooed Monk/Druid 4 They are all about 200 XP from 7th And me... Sor/Clr 2, Incantatrix/Clr3, Exalted Arcanist/Clr 3 Yes I passed my party in levels due to roleplaying and being forced into doing the last encounter of the night solo because I was caught alone while returning to the inn after making a donation to my temple. My cohort(only has to be 1 lvl lower here) has also joined up after this last encounter and is a Dru/Archivist 2, Planar Shepherd/Archivist5. I think things will get out of hand soon with Dal Quor as her Chosen Plane. A_D
X-Codes 12-16-06, 02:10 AM	I was just wondering why your DM didn't consider just starting at level 6...
Animae_Draconum 12-16-06, 02:39 AM	I was just wondering why your DM didn't consider just starting at level 6... This I actually know. We are in a Low magic item world where a +1 sword might be the best weapon you ever find. Also he has strongly hinted about where we might be going could prove fatal for the party without this power increase, somthing about a realm based on technology rather than magic as ours is. I already have the simple solution to my survival but I think my companions might not be so lucky. Starmantle will make me invincible in a no magic setting. I anticipate a witchhunt of sorts where the power increase in casters will be needed just to survuve.
FeceMan 12-16-06, 03:10 AM	This I actually know. We are in a Low magic item world where a +1 sword might be the best weapon you ever find. Also he has strongly hinted about where we might be going could prove fatal for the party without this power increase, somthing about a realm based on technology rather than magic as ours is. I already have the simple solution to my survival but I think my companions might not be so lucky. Starmantle will make me invincible in a no magic setting. I anticipate a witchhunt of sorts where the power increase in casters will be needed just to survuve. Low magic + broken sorcerer = :).
NightBreeze 12-16-06, 12:35 PM	Break it :D
High Octane 12-16-06, 12:41 PM	Yes your DM is asking for trouble. Which means YOU get to have so much fun....
Fatalis_902 12-16-06, 05:47 PM	Told ya this would be fun!:D :D Didn't I say this would be fun?!? Isn't this fun?!? I Think it's fun.:invasion: Here have a squid!:coolcthul Or, several squids!!:coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul :coolcthul And, a cookie::cookie:
Morrowner 12-16-06, 06:54 PM	Could you tell me if the other players get equal freebies as you do? Also, one last thing... Does this run as an actual campaign with hard battles and a compelling story line or is just an inchoate mess of broken freebies and cakewalk battles?
PhaedrusXY 12-16-06, 07:14 PM	Good lord. Get ready to rule whatever plane you go to.
ShadowDragon8685 12-16-06, 08:49 PM	Good lord. Get ready to rule whatever plane you go to. Exactly. All hail Animae_Draconum, for none but the Gods or Pun-Pun can stop him. Is this game played online, by any chance? I would very much like to play as a Drow Sorceress. :)
johnkretzer 12-16-06, 09:01 PM	Um... Have you guys ever played Dragon Star... What they have isn't enough to deal with burst fire weapons. Also if they are going someplace with no magic, who say it won't be weaken there. But I think your DM is insane. But have fun with it.
Animae_Draconum 12-17-06, 01:46 AM	Could you tell me if the other players get equal freebies as you do? Also, one last thing... Does this run as an actual campaign with hard battles and a compelling story line or is just an inchoate mess of broken freebies and cakewalk battles? Yes this campaign is based on an original tale my DM was considering for a novel or short story. The battles we face are far from easy, in fact I nearly died in the solo encounter I faced leaving with 15 HP. He certainly knows how to make things a challenge for us. We all know the final encounter will be against an undisclosed number of very dark powers with a minimum of 15 divine ranks each. As far as the no magic realm we are going to, magic will still function normally there, the inhabitants never discovered it. A_D
NightBreeze 12-17-06, 07:58 PM	Oh well, it seems that even if you are horribly overpowered he's beeing able to balance this, so...very good ;)
LordBOB777 12-17-06, 08:12 PM	dang thats all i can say
Gauze Fireforge 12-17-06, 10:05 PM	dang thats all i can say I think in this world that anything that either doesn't cast spells or has spell resistance is either dead or is dead but doesn't know it yet.
Mindolin 12-17-06, 10:32 PM	I've given myself three days to try and get over my fear of these house rules, but it hasn't helped. I was designing a campaign setting based on some of the over the top anime, and it STILL was not this overpowered.
Animae_Draconum 12-17-06, 10:47 PM	I'm playign an exalted character, this was not for power increase but restrictions on how much damage to the societal structure my character would be able to cause. The only things I kill are of evil alignment, and then that is the last resort if they refuse to surrender. As for ruling the planes it just isnt my character's place even when he himself achieves divine ranks Rulership is not somthing he would ever be interested in. The best part about being CG is that you live for the enjoyment of life and strive to improve the lives of others. One of my followers is actually a Ghale Eladrin for flavor purposes. A_D
Bead 12-18-06, 09:58 AM	Hmmm, perhaps he has baited you in with this casting class - as the world you are to visit will be similar to Salem, MA USA circa 1692. With no/limited magic available and the inquisition on your tail, that might prove to be a tables turned situation. Like an episode of sliders.
Animae_Draconum 12-18-06, 11:58 AM	Well he better have a solution to a little spell called starmantle cause there it will always be persistant on me and my party at all times. I refuse to have the party die because we travel to the land of Omfgwesuckatlife. They can hunt me all they want but I cannot be responsible for a group of people openly engaging in persecution(an evil act). Its sort of sad when the Sorcerer has the highest AC and HP in the party while not trying ECL 8 with a 51 AC and 122 HP I think if I werent playing the exalted status out exactly my DM woudl have more problems but since I have yet to physically injure a single non-evil opponent I think I'm doing ok. A_D
Croix Ragnan 12-23-06, 12:10 AM	No "summon-the-apocalypse" for you then, eh? I haven't heard of the spell starmantle before (I could look it up but I'm lazy), but I doubt its effectiveness against null mines, Gray Death, Stiletto, or other goodies from d20 future. A Star Ocean-like campaign (or perhaps inverse-Star Ocean).
Animae_Draconum 12-23-06, 03:51 AM	No "summon-the-apocalypse" for you then, eh? I haven't heard of the spell starmantle before (I could look it up but I'm lazy), but I doubt its effectiveness against null mines, Gray Death, Stiletto, or other goodies from d20 future. A Star Ocean-like campaign (or perhaps inverse-Star Ocean). You underestimate the cheesiness of starmantle... It automatically negates ALL non-magical weapons from harming whoever it is cast on and even magic weapons allow a reflex save DC 15 for half damage. In a non-magic world im simply immune to anything that would harm me. A_D
ravenshrike 12-25-06, 01:31 AM	My DM is neither inexpreienced or young I think its a test to see if I can manage to carry the whole party by myself without stealing the show. I am the only arcane caster and the only player who realizes how powerful this actually is. Also the DM has allowed gestalt and everyoen is takign advantage of this but not PrC benefits. so, my current build is Sor/Cleric 2 A_D pffft. Shoulda gone Sorc/Duskblade. Then take all the touch spells you could get your hands on along with mirror image and blur. heh, melee arcane cheapness.
ravenshrike 12-25-06, 01:36 AM	We all know the final encounter will be against an undisclosed number of very dark powers with a minimum of 15 divine ranks each. *cough* elder gods *cough*
Encard 12-26-06, 03:17 AM	You underestimate the cheesiness of starmantle... It automatically negates ALL non-magical weapons from harming whoever it is cast on and even magic weapons allow a reflex save DC 15 for half damage. In a non-magic world im simply immune to anything that would harm me. A_D Only if everything still counts as a "weapon"... Keep in mind, a lot of sci-fi weaponry would be classed as magical or a special effect in standard fantasy terms. You may be overestimating the effectiveness of Starmantle against lasers, high explosives, radiations and such...
ravenshrike 12-26-06, 09:43 PM	Since starmantle would negate damage from a torch, and everything else from the EM spectrum just reaaranges atoms in a relatively slightly different way than heat when you get right down to the very basics of it, it would negate most damage. Maybe not grav effects based weapons, but everything else would be negated.
High Octane 12-27-06, 03:57 PM	You underestimate the cheesiness of starmantle... It automatically negates ALL non-magical weapons from harming whoever it is cast on and even magic weapons allow a reflex save DC 15 for half damage. In a non-magic world im simply immune to anything that would harm me. A_D Flame throwers.
Keldir 12-27-06, 04:44 PM	That game is unbalanced and out of control and will end up being scrapped two months in, battles will take forever and you will get little to nothing accomplished.
Manic Man 12-27-06, 08:54 PM	Wow, very nice rules for maxing. HOwever it does take away the challenge Sorc 1/Mindbender 1/Cleric 1/Contemplative 1 Get Divine Metamagic, Extend spell, Persistant spell Take mindsight at level 3 He will definitely get a lot of problems later if everyone maxes out. Either it will be too easy or too quick a TPK
Drohem 12-28-06, 09:00 PM	"what about the DM?" said the novice player. "I will break him." said the experienced player with a spell casting character.
Morgotho 12-29-06, 12:23 AM	You underestimate the cheesiness of starmantle... It automatically negates ALL non-magical weapons from harming whoever it is cast on and even magic weapons allow a reflex save DC 15 for half damage. In a non-magic world im simply immune to anything that would harm me. A_D Don't worry about that starmantle, there are still plenty of ways for a creative DM to kill your PC. Suffocation, drowning, disease, high pressure environment, low pressure environment, wrath of God/DM, enforcement of the material component when there are no pixies around and not allowing the use of XP as a replacement, grappling you/tying you up and waiting for the spell to end - then attack, starvation, dehydration, constipation, and of course, nukes. Alternatively, he could have another magic using party arrive in this no magic world with opposing goals, or he could have someone take pity on the world and introduce them to the arcane arts not long after your arrival.
Endarire 12-30-06, 01:20 PM	While I fear for the balance of the campaign, remember that whatever you can do, your DM can do better. The power level quickly approaches epic before you hit level 5, but if he can handle it, so be it. -EE
DarkLiChNeaZur 12-30-06, 01:40 PM	hmm all i can say is you should talk to you DM about this, as a player and presently a DM i dont like overpowered things if anything i like a challange, and as a DM i like to make the players use EVERYTHING they got to survive, makes it more intense (had a player sweating during a combat against three tiny Dragons)
Always-Late 12-30-06, 01:49 PM	Okay. Step 1: Learn Explosive Runes. Step 2: Get a book. Step 3: Set aside a few weeks for runecasting fun. Step 4: ??? Step 5: Watch your opponent explode in 2000d6 explosive damage. Step 6: Profit.