Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Vampire 01-14-04, 07:52 AM	Before this starts id like to make clear that I know the DM's ruling is final but it is also the players right to contest when things are dodgy! (this campaign is supossedly based on zelda if that helps) Problem 1, His CHARACTER not NPC is the main hero (link) he saves the world! 2, Everyone is high level meaning that its hard to do anything starting at level 1, 3, Noticing we cannot destroy anything we want to we develop character stories eventually we build a keep, my character gets engaged, we buy the local tavern but......... 4, My fiance is infact a spirt who helps link save the world and shuns my character she gets pregnant but it aint my kid its the sages who are spirits like my fiance. and guess what the next kid is a link 5, Our enemys are killed by OTHER people meaning there is nothing for us to do 6, My character sees someone punch is fiance so instintively he magic missiles twice (once quickened) 10 missiles kills the guy (lvl 9 now) the GARROTTE come after me and slay me 7, link make my character a sage without his consent (how does link do this ??????) 8, the other characters sell loads of gear to buy a miracle (what dudes) it works (53%) so i come back (that poison the garrotte carry make it hard) 9, because i have come back to life the circle is disrupted link gets killed buy a force 50x stronger then AO then zelda also die so basically my character brings about the end of the earth (at this point we realise this aint a normal campaign and he is dumb) 10, my character suvives somehow (long story) and is trapped in the future now get this i cant be wished ect back otherwise it happens again my only choice is to wait till they complete the quest in the past then i can be wished back (!) like 3 levels behind everyone else so i might as not go to the next 10 sessions. so even the miracle was pointless! SO WHAT DO I DO! what do you think? oh its all my fault he says!
DM Zoc 01-14-04, 08:12 AM	It's an interesting concept, though I believe it was poorly executed.
Thorak 01-14-04, 10:42 AM	Originally posted by The Vampire Problem 1, His CHARACTER not NPC is the main hero (link) he saves the world! DMs play NPCs, storyline characters meant to further the story. The heroes are the PCs, played by the players. Any DM playing a PC in his own campaign (or an NPC that may as well be a PC) is cheating. Obviously his character won't die and will be more powerful, the only reason for the DM to HAVE a character is to get some of the rewards of the campaign, and as DM he decides who gets the rewards. This is a conflict of interest, and any DM found doing this should be smacked. 2, Everyone is high level meaning that its hard to do anything starting at level 1, He started you at level 1, when the rest of the party is high level? He should have started you at a comparable level, or slightly lower, there's no rule saying new PCs must be level 1. Forcing you to do so is unfairly punishing you, and making the game less fun for you. 3, Noticing we cannot destroy anything we want to we develop character stories eventually we build a keep, my character gets engaged, we buy the local tavern but......... Good, great, until the but...... 4, My fiance is infact a spirt who helps link save the world and shuns my character she gets pregnant but it aint my kid its the sages who are spirits like my fiance. and guess what the next kid is a link Fiance actually a spirit; nice plot point. Fiance gets pregnant from the other sages; also good plot point, but you should leave the wench. If she's having another man's (spirit's) kid, there's no reason to stick around. 5, Our enemys are killed by OTHER people meaning there is nothing for us to do Bad DMing. The PCs should be doing the action, that's why you play D&D. Otherwise you may as well sit there while the DM reads a book to you for 6 hours. 6, My character sees someone punch is fiance so instintively he magic missiles twice (once quickened) 10 missiles kills the guy (lvl 9 now) the GARROTTE come after me and slay me Ok, your fiance's sleeping around, but I digress. Getting attacked by enemies trying to kill an NPC important to a character is perfectly fine though, unless the DM didn't give you a fair chance to defend yourself. 7, link make my character a sage without his consent (how does link do this ??????) If you meant he DM's character did this, he shouldn't be. If you mean the DM did this, he can do whatever he likes. If being a sage screws your ability to play your character, though, it's bad DMing. Of course, now you're the same as your fiancee, so either split up with her and find a nice new spirit gal, or punch the DM in the head. A cool plot point I imagine the DM hasn't considered would have been to have your fiancee turn into a spirit and mysteriously get pregnant. Your character is incensed, and leaves her. She gets kidnapped. While trying to rescue her, your character finds he must travel to the past and becomes a Sage along the way. While in the past, you hook up with your fiancee, prior to her indiscretion, and, well, nature 'takes it's course'. And then, upon returning to the future, you realize the kid IS actually yours all along, and have to reconcile with your estranged fiancee, who was probably hurt and confused that you left her because you got her pregnant (since she'd know you were the father). But from what I've heard, I don't think your DM's that forward-thinking. 8, the other characters sell loads of gear to buy a miracle (what dudes) it works (53%) so i come back (that poison the garrotte carry make it hard) No comment, the party seems cool even if the DM is a bit of an arse. 9, because i have come back to life the circle is disrupted link gets killed buy a force 50x stronger then AO then zelda also die so basically my character brings about the end of the earth (at this point we realise this aint a normal campaign and he is dumb) In other words, the DM's annoyed he couldn't kill your character permanently, so cheats to destroy the world. Mature. 10, my character suvives somehow (long story) and is trapped in the future Lame, lame attempt to preserve some credibility after destroying the world. Your DM seems to be too reactionary (rather than planning things out, he just reacts with whatever he wants to do), too self-absorbed (playing for himself rather than the party. The DM is supposed to be telling a story featuring the PCs, not this nifty NPC he created.) and too immature (So the party sacrificed a whole lot to bring you back to life when I wanted you dead? Hah! I'll just destroy the whole WORLD!!) to be a DM. I suggest you find another one, and suggest that your current DM would probably be happier hacking and cheating at Baldur's Gate or something.
stsparks72 01-14-04, 10:53 AM	I'll be perfectly honest, if I were in your shoes, I would not have played after the first night. The whole idea sounds retarded and boring. A prescripted plot that does not allow players much liberty to do what they want. What is up with that? I would find another group to game with, a group that focuses on the players having fun along with the DM.
Raven Dark 01-14-04, 11:28 AM	If I was in your shoes, I would oust that cheap crap-arsed DM and make Thorak the new DM. :D
halzmar of geoff 01-14-04, 11:39 AM	Have you talked to the other players? What about the DM? It seems that he wants to play the game not run it. Perhaps you should check out the SRDs, or better yet buy the books, read them, and consider giving DMing yourself a go.
green_yawgmoth 01-14-04, 01:34 PM	DMs who base their games off of video games should get a beating with a crowbar that lasts for days. Your DM doesn't know what he's doing at all. The sooner you oust him and get someone competent, the better.
Crossover-Chronicler 01-14-04, 01:53 PM	In answer to the title question: yes. Originally posted by The Vampire Before this starts id like to make clear that I know the DM's ruling is final but it is also the players right to contest when things are dodgy!Another way of looking at it is to saythat the Dm has final say on everything except whether or not he remains DM :smirk:(this campaign is supossedly based on zelda if that helps)That's point 1 in a case for "yes, your DM is stupid." Not that it's necessarily a bad thing to nab ideas, but generally you should only inform the players of enough to give them the mood: it's more un to figure the rest out.Problem 1, His CHARACTER not NPC is the main hero (link) he saves the world!And that's point 2. the DM has all kinds of perks, but dominating the game as a PC as well oughtn't be one of them.2, Everyone is high level meaning that its hard to do anything starting at level 1,"Everyone" meaning who? If your characters die, then they come back at level 1? Or all the NPCs are high-level, and the PCs get started at level 1?3, Noticing we cannot destroy anything we want to we develop character stories eventually we build a keep, my character gets engaged, we buy the local tavern but.........Which demonstrates that you are at least decent players.4, My fiance is infact a spirt who helps link save the world and shuns my character she gets pregnant but it aint my kid its the sages who are spirits like my fiance. and guess what the next kid is a link:uh-huh:5, Our enemys are killed by OTHER people meaning there is nothing for us to doPoint 3.6, My character sees someone punch is fiance so instintively he magic missiles twice (once quickened) 10 missiles kills the guy (lvl 9 now) the GARROTTE come after me and slay me I really don't get what;s going on here... who punched your fiancee, and why? Was killing the guy really an appropriate reaction? :confused:7, link make my character a sage without his consent (how does link do this ??????)deus ex machina. Really I have no idea. Was this an alternative to dying?8, the other characters sell loads of gear to buy a miracle (what dudes) it works (53%) so i come back (that poison the garrotte carry make it hard) 9, because i have come back to life the circle is disrupted link gets killed buy a force 50x stronger then AO then zelda also die so basically my character brings about the end of the earth (at this point we realise this aint a normal campaign and he is dumb)Er... only just then? About the time the DMPC hit the table, I'dhave been figuring this out.10, my character suvives somehow (long story) and is trapped in the future now get this i cant be wished ect back otherwise it happens again my only choice is to wait till they complete the quest in the past then i can be wished back (!) like 3 levels behind everyone else so i might as not go to the next 10 sessions. so even the miracle was pointless!I think this is referred to as the "big DM beat-stick." I think you annoyed this DM when you stopped playing along. Point 4. SO WHAT DO I DO!Quit the game. Buy your own DMG. SHow this guy what good DMing looks like :P what do you think? oh its all my fault he says!Point 5. If you don't like it, you are under no obligation to continue playing: games are for fun. You can complain, and if he doesn't listen you can quit, or start your own game. In-game (if you choose to stick with this DM), I would try to work with him to find some way to gain XP while stuck in the future so that you can remain competitive with the rest of the party.
Rerednaw 01-14-04, 06:41 PM	There is a section in the Dungeon Masters Guide that deals with gamemastering. He seriously needs to read it. But ask if he followed a few simple rules: Did everyone have fun? Did the players feel they made a meaningful contribution? Did the players feel that they each had adequate time and input into the adventure? If you find yourself and your fellow players saying no, then all of you need to have a discussion with your DM. Be friendly, but suggest some changes. Or have someone else run a game so your DM can get a different (the player's perspective). Don't use this as a 'get even' tactic. Run the game like a game you would want to play. If he sees everyone in someone else's game having fun, and the same lack of enthusiasm missing from his game, he may take some notes or ask himself, 'what can I improve or fix?' Hope this helps. Cheers.
Taran Alvein 01-14-04, 11:34 PM	Wow. This DM is the worst rail-roader I have ever seen. Come one now, who, I ask you, WHO would believe that The Garrote would go after some guy just because he killed some other guy? You should point out to your DM that The Garrote only go after high-profile targets that get them a lot of money. What's more, that guy needs to play some LoZ games. Link does NOT have the power to "create" sages. The Seven Sages already existed, and were killed off by Ganondorf. Freakin' idiot. You know, since there are now 7 female sages, including Zelda, you should ask your DM if you can get 1,000 EXP for everytime you... Eheheh... "Stab" one of them with your "sword".
DrakeRunner 01-14-04, 11:52 PM	Actually, 2 of the sages WERE male. And I don't remember them being killed... And I definitely agree with everyone else. Note my signature, courtesy of... whoever I'm quoting... *mindblanked* And I've heard of only one DM who railroaded worse than this. He actually said "You cannot go that direction, turn back or die."
Aucturos 01-15-04, 02:01 AM	I have the PERFECT solution for you! You're just in luck! Hand him a pen, buy him a notepad, and tell him to GO WRITE HIS FREAKING STORY ALREADY and stop trying to make it look like a D&D campaign! Oh, that felt better than it should have -_-
Mitchell 01-15-04, 02:14 AM	Yes, like some of the other posters have said, this is bad. The DM wants to tell you a story, he's just letting you have minor parts. Don't overstep your boundaries, don't make waves, just go with the flow or suffer my wrath. Time to look for a new group, or have a shake-up in this one that at a minimum begins a new campaign, and probably better that it has a new DM.
The Stray 01-15-04, 02:55 AM	As green_yawgmoth once put it, "This makes absolutely no sense at all; your DM needs to be shot. With a hammer." Better, your entire group should revolt. I was once this sort of evil, evil railroading GM, and I had players who suffered for it. I didn't see the light until the players I was abusing turned on me and said, "NO MORE! No more ancient vampire-werewolves with more power than GOD who we could probably defeat in a fight if you would actually stop twisting the laws of reality, physics, and common sense to let him kick our collective arses! No more pet characters who we can't kill who travel with us even if we'd normally roast his kind on sight! No more plots that make sense only in your twisted mind and NO MORE TYRANNOSAURS CHASING US BACK TO YOUR "CORRECT" PATH!!!!!" Then they started working on their own campaigns. Yeah, I took some knocks when I first started DMing. I had to be a player first to understand just what the players were going through. So I took the advice of some of my friends, who were interested in seeing me grow as a DM and as a person. I learned how NOT to DM the hard way. I learned from my mistakes, and took some pages from some excellent DMs that I played under. And now, I run a campaign that is high quality, and long lasting. I have seen the true way. I have come into the light. For your DM, first you need to show him some tough love. Tell him that you're MAD AS HELL, AND YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE! Then start your own game, and have him in it. Try to run it so that you're making sure all the characters are having fun. Then, for good measure, show him Uncle Figgy's Guides (http://members.aol.com/dwcope/guides.htm) for good measure. If these won't help him get over himself, then never let him DM again.
The Vampire 01-15-04, 06:55 AM	He started you at level 1, when the rest of the party is high level? He should have started you at a comparable level, or slightly lower, there's no rule saying new PCs must be level 1. Forcing you to do so is unfairly punishing you, and making the game less fun for you. No the whole group started at one we level 9 now and we still feel insignifficant! but you should leave the wench. If she's having another man's (spirit's) kid, there's no reason to stick around. Its the first time I tried this so as you can imagine i was annoyed a tad Bad DMing. The PCs should be doing the action, that's why you play D&D. Otherwise you may as well sit there while the DM reads a book to you for 6 hours. I said this! Ok, your fiance's sleeping around, but I digress. Getting attacked by enemies trying to kill an NPC important to a character is perfectly fine though, unless the DM didn't give you a fair chance to defend yourself. It turns out this guy wanted her dead but a monk (one of the elite 4 (level20 easy) tried to stop him. the dm didnt make this clear so i attacked the monk blocked me. (he didnt make this clear as only one other person understood) the monk picked him up and launched him out side. so i MM him (with every npc like lvl 10+ i didnt expect to dint him. but he works for the garrotte so i leave as not to endanger the rest of the party and i was assasinated. No comment, the party seems cool even if the DM is a bit of an arse. They are they just dont understand the game as much! In other words, the DM's annoyed he couldn't kill your character permanently, so cheats to destroy the world. Mature. I thought this also! Lame, lame attempt to preserve some credibility after destroying the world. Booya this is what we thought! If I was in your shoes, I would oust that cheap crap-arsed DM and make Thorak the new DM. If he wants the job:) Have you talked to the other players? What about the DM? It seems that he wants to play the game not run it. Perhaps you should check out the SRDs, or better yet buy the books, read them, and consider giving DMing yourself a go. I was DM all the books are mine but after 3 years i got bored! there is no one else we can play with and all the other guys are sound. but no one else is qualified! Everyone" meaning who? If your characters die, then they come back at level 1? Or all the NPCs are high-level, and the PCs get started at level 1? The second. it was even harder b4 we could afford true res with level drain! Which demonstrates that you are at least decent players We try but we aint brillient:rolleyes: deus ex machina. Really I have no idea. Was this an alternative to dying? well i cant come back now so not really! I think this is referred to as the "big DM beat-stick." I think you annoyed this DM when you stopped playing along. This is the only group we have its either this or dont play, but he does need a beating! Quit the game. Buy your own DMG. SHow this guy what good DMing looks like The dmg IS mine and i could show him all day he just screwed up and i want ideas how to get back to life. Wow. This DM is the worst rail-roader I have ever seen. Come one now, who, I ask you, WHO would believe that The Garrote would go after some guy just because he killed some other guy? You should point out to your DM that The Garrote only go after high-profile targets that get them a lot of money. What's more, that guy needs to play some LoZ games. Link does NOT have the power to "create" sages. The Seven Sages already existed, and were killed off by Ganondorf. Freakin' idiot. link "asked" for it to happen but I should have a say! "This makes absolutely no sense at all; your DM needs to be shot. With a hammer." YEAH! I was thinkin goin on the character optimization boards and blowin him away that way! so wat you think!
Bullgod 01-15-04, 12:19 PM	The DM is stupid! Its pointless explaining y, because everyone has already stated them all! But hey i like to give some input :) Love the shoot him with a hammer idea :smirk: personally Vamp i think u should get the good lookin guy who always plays a ranger to take over.
halzmar of geoff 01-16-04, 12:32 AM	Wait you were the original DM right? Could that have anything to do with his current gaming style and his obvious problems with your character? If Link his character in your campaign maybe he misses playing him and takes his frustration out on your character because he feels abandoned by you as a DM.
The Vampire 01-16-04, 07:13 AM	No he just like power!:rolleyes:
PSchirf 01-16-04, 07:42 AM	Tell your DM the following... in a note or in person. "I'm not having fun. What can we do to change that? If I don't have fun next session I don't want to play with you as DM anymore. I don't want my character removed from the game unless you think my character is too powerful. If that's the reason for doing it then let's talk about how to make my character less powerful. I don't want you to make me more powerful or give me everything I want; that's not fun. I want to be part of a party of character that feels like we're a larger part of the story than we are now. I don't want to feel forced into one path of a story you have in your head. That means we need to move away from the Zelda backstory. It's too restrictive. Have Link exit our characters lives. If you're having trouble coming up with a way to justify my character's return then we can talk about that. It should be easy to hand-wave and say the whole end of the world thing was an illusion/suggestion created by our enemies to try to get rid of us. The actual divine powers being portrayed in the grande illusion were entertained for a while, so they allowed it to continue. Now that some of us are messing with the past they decide to put an end to the charade and set a few things straight. After that they can disappear and we can return to our normal lives." Personally I'd start a new campaign. If I really had to assume this one to keep the players happy I'd have the whole campaign roll back to right after set 6. Each player would attempt to set his character back to where it was at that point in the story. Anything they get wrong can be blamed on leftover changes the "gods" were doing to make things more like they wanted them. At that point the "gods" would warn all of the people involved to not mess with time or the natural flow of events ever again. Link, the sages, and the spirit woman/infant would be taken away by the gods for a long talk that will last a few thousand years. I'd then try to allow the players to fix the silly things that happened in steps 1 to 6... but not using time travel.