Is my DM unfair? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is my DM unfair? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Friss_Kervrask
06-29-06, 10:41 AM My DM is running an evil game. Here's the problem :

We are all level 1 but his little brother is an half-vampire barbarian. I went like :OMG! Don't you forgot we are only level 1? But he refuse categorically to let me play a Psion (Telepath) to become a Mindbinder because it's ''Too Powerful!''

I said : ''And a half-vampire isn't too powerful for level 1?!'' He said me that the half-vampire will only gain bonuses over time as he gain barbarian levels. But dammit! The half-vampire will be unfair with time because he will be same level as us but with a overpowered template...

Am I overdoing it or it's really unfair?

Thank you
Toloran
06-29-06, 10:50 AM Strictly speaking, it is the DMs game and he can set down the rules as he sees fit. Although there is nothing wrong with psionics, unless the DM is familiar with them and knows their disadvantages, it is generally better to not allow them (most DMs have a much better grasp of normal magic then they do of psionics).

However, you are correct, he does seem to be favoring his younger bro too much (unless of course there is a specific plot reason that he need a half-vampire for). In general, every template (such as vampire) has some sort of level adjust. Even if he starts out as basically a human (normal level adjust), as gains powers, he will basically be gaining 2 levels for every one he would normally (one from the vampire powers and one from the barbarian levels). In reality, he is probably going to start out his little bro with SOME powers to start out with. That on its own gives him at least and additional +1 level adjust.

As an occasional DM, I would allow it granted that 1) He starts out with no powers and 2) Takes an experience penalty (since his in essense multiclassing).
SoldierOfFortune187
06-29-06, 10:51 AM What your DM may be running is the 'savage progression' for a given template (though I have no access to a 'half-vampire' one...).

Meaning right now as it stands, he should have absolutely no vampiric power (though he may already look the part). When your party next gains a level, instead of choosing a character class, this person would need to choose a 'level' of their template. Depending on how powerful said template is, they could be doing this five or even ten levels, while still only a level 1 barbarian (with 1 hit dice!).

Sure he may get some cool powers along the way, but (in general) he is only hurting himself (and the team).

Talk it over with the DM and ensure that something like this is happening and then I will answer 'no, your DM isn't being unfair.' If however said DM just went ahead and gave him all his powers and is just letting him 'pay off' the levels, then yes he is not understanding how to properly run the template in game, and is 'unfair.'
Toloran
06-29-06, 10:54 AM What your DM may be running is the 'savage progression' for a given template (though I have no access to a 'half-vampire' one...).

Meaning right now as it stands, he should have absolutely no vampiric power (though he may already look the part). When your party next gains a level, instead of choosing a character class, this person would need to choose a 'level' of their template. Depending on how powerful said template is, they could be doing this five or even ten levels, while still only a level 1 barbarian (with 1 hit dice!).

Actually it sounds like (according to the OP) it automatically progresses as he levels up his barbarian class levels.

I think it might not so much that your DM is purposely being unfair as much as he is just a noob DM. (from how you are describing it at least)
Friss_Kervrask
06-29-06, 11:05 AM Yes it automatically progress with levels.

Ho I forgot to say that he say that the Mindbinder is too powerful because he can have slaves...but my DM is playing in his own game and is playing a druid who will become a beastmaster and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companion...so he will have like 5 or 6 animals.

And there is no special need for a vampire in the game for the plot. And last thing, my DM is a ''all same level'' fanatic
Cifer
06-29-06, 11:36 AM Ask your DM if you can play something comparably powerful to your liking. If he declines, ask if you can play a half-vampire (probably Blade has poisoned the RPG-scene, but whatever) too. If he declines, ask why he does so.
Evingolis
06-29-06, 12:29 PM how old.. ah.. young are you?
wonlee76
06-29-06, 12:57 PM Your DM is fair for not allowing psionics. Its his world afterall. I don't agree with his reasoning but its in the DM's discretion to allow/disallow stuff as he sees fit.

Without knowing more details, I have no idea if he's fair with the half-vamp ruling. It could be unfair (and on its face, it does look like that) but if he's doing a Savage Species type progression or possibly a "bloodline" type of thing from Unearthed Arcana, then it is fair. The price/benefits of the template or whatever is being spread out over several levels instead of giving all the benefits up front.

Personally, I'd make a Half-Vamp Fighter then if you feel he's letting his little bro get an unfair advantage. May as well jump on the bandwagon and be treated equally. If fighter isn't your thing, find out more details on how the benefits are spread out to determine if you could make a competent spellcaster under his ruling for half-vamp.
Nom
06-29-06, 07:31 PM but my DM is playing in his own gameminor red flag - it takes a certain degree of skill and finesse to "play a character" in a game that you are running. The main good reason for doing so is a "rotating DM" situation where the various players don't want to abandon their characters while they DM. In other scenarios, it's appropriate for the DM to propose that one or more NPCs accompany the PCs, but these should not "belong" to the DM any more than other NPCs do.and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companionMajor red flag. The DM is bringing a "personal" character and creating house rules in favour of his character? Prepare to sit back and watch the DM run an adventure for himself while you play as a hanger-on.

1st rule of good DM-ing: get your vicarious enjoyment by helping your players have fun, not by muscling them out of the way so you can show off to them.
Damior
06-29-06, 08:15 PM The way you handle these DMs is either

1. Leave the campaign, as he is obviously favoring his brother

2.Punch them in the face and run like heck

use whichever method you like best
Bruunwald
06-29-06, 08:22 PM Savage Species has rules that allow for advancement of racial traits like to the way class levels advance. Essentially, you take a race as a class, and as you advance, you become more and more like that race, with more and more of their powers, etc.

Your DM may be thinking of that. But here's his problem, and you can tell him I said so:

He ought to be forcing his little brother to take levels as half-vampire alternately with his barbarian levels, as he would a multiclass character.

Otherwise, you are correct that he is overpowering his little brother, since he would essentially be granting him the benefit of TWO FULL CLASSES PER LEVEL.

Sucks.
SoldierOfFortune187
06-29-06, 08:26 PM ...but my DM is playing in his own game and is playing a druid who will become a beastmaster and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companion...

Oooh... ouch.

Yeah, as said above me, the DM has decided to step into both sides of his own campaign and even streamline abilities just for his character... Danger, Will Robinson, danger!

Take up your compounded concerns with the DM, without using the word 'favortism' (just cold, hard facts about what is going on), and see if he shall repent his evil ways. Barring a reform of playstyle, and the unlikelihood of just walking out on the game, roll up a carbon copy of one of the two headliner characters and watch them struggle to come up with reasons why you can't play that (I particularly like, "It would be just dumb to have two half-vampires in the party!").
DarkNick
06-29-06, 10:45 PM Let him favor his brother. I would do the same if I had a little sibling playing. Sounds to me like his brother is young and probably needs a hand and might need a break. I rekon you should see how it goes first. You might find the little brother does not contribute as much as you guys anyway so it might all balance out at the end of the day. Enjoy the character you have. I've played in campigns where I was much weaker than the other party members yet I still had a blast.

"just send the vampire in guys, he can handle it" "threaten them with the vampire dude, that will sort them out" "I'm hiding behind the vampire" "Hey vamp, do you want extra garlic in your stew tonight?" You are evil after all.
thenotoriousJIM
06-29-06, 11:43 PM i hope you are CE to take full advange of sending your vamp into do everything. Take less risks and demand a fair share of the treasure. The Vamp is over powered so he can fight off more **** until he dies, and then you get his share of the loot too.

If he keeps you all on the same level there is more a reason to be a wizard, since he iwll mess with the iteam creation stuff to keep everyone on the same level.
celtredleg
06-30-06, 01:08 AM Listen to Nom, he has it right.

Generaly, it is bad when a DM has a personal PC. There are a few who can do it, but most cant. When the DM has already added power ups to that PC, and the game has not even started, you are in for a front row seat to watch the DMPC do everything.

Dont worry about little brother. The half vamp out of LM is only LA+2. If he continues the trend with the special feats, that Druid is going to rapidly overshadow everybody, even the vamp.

Start looking for a new group. Play a game or two to find out if it is really broken, but be ready to bail. Also be ready to perform as the audience in the DMs show of awesomeness. Most of the time this really sucks.
kelvinaw273
06-30-06, 05:13 AM There are two ways of doing a half-vampire - one is the vampiric bloodline from Unearthed Arcana (which sounds right if he gains power as he gains levels) - the other is the 'dhampir' template from Ravenoft. If the latter, you are right, he will get overpowered.

Either way, it seems that the DM is one of the "psionics are too powerful" crowd, which is silly but he's entitled to set the rules as he sees fit.
BeginnerDM
06-30-06, 10:03 AM I'd make a lawful evil half vampire monk.

Name him: Baron Bann Von Wag'en Ju 'mper

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Friss_Kervrask 06-29-06, 10:41 AM	My DM is running an evil game. Here's the problem : We are all level 1 but his little brother is an half-vampire barbarian. I went like :OMG! Don't you forgot we are only level 1? But he refuse categorically to let me play a Psion (Telepath) to become a Mindbinder because it's ''Too Powerful!'' I said : ''And a half-vampire isn't too powerful for level 1?!'' He said me that the half-vampire will only gain bonuses over time as he gain barbarian levels. But dammit! The half-vampire will be unfair with time because he will be same level as us but with a overpowered template... Am I overdoing it or it's really unfair? Thank you
Toloran 06-29-06, 10:50 AM	Strictly speaking, it is the DMs game and he can set down the rules as he sees fit. Although there is nothing wrong with psionics, unless the DM is familiar with them and knows their disadvantages, it is generally better to not allow them (most DMs have a much better grasp of normal magic then they do of psionics). However, you are correct, he does seem to be favoring his younger bro too much (unless of course there is a specific plot reason that he need a half-vampire for). In general, every template (such as vampire) has some sort of level adjust. Even if he starts out as basically a human (normal level adjust), as gains powers, he will basically be gaining 2 levels for every one he would normally (one from the vampire powers and one from the barbarian levels). In reality, he is probably going to start out his little bro with SOME powers to start out with. That on its own gives him at least and additional +1 level adjust. As an occasional DM, I would allow it granted that 1) He starts out with no powers and 2) Takes an experience penalty (since his in essense multiclassing).
SoldierOfFortune187 06-29-06, 10:51 AM	What your DM may be running is the 'savage progression' for a given template (though I have no access to a 'half-vampire' one...). Meaning right now as it stands, he should have absolutely no vampiric power (though he may already look the part). When your party next gains a level, instead of choosing a character class, this person would need to choose a 'level' of their template. Depending on how powerful said template is, they could be doing this five or even ten levels, while still only a level 1 barbarian (with 1 hit dice!). Sure he may get some cool powers along the way, but (in general) he is only hurting himself (and the team). Talk it over with the DM and ensure that something like this is happening and then I will answer 'no, your DM isn't being unfair.' If however said DM just went ahead and gave him all his powers and is just letting him 'pay off' the levels, then yes he is not understanding how to properly run the template in game, and is 'unfair.'
Toloran 06-29-06, 10:54 AM	What your DM may be running is the 'savage progression' for a given template (though I have no access to a 'half-vampire' one...). Meaning right now as it stands, he should have absolutely no vampiric power (though he may already look the part). When your party next gains a level, instead of choosing a character class, this person would need to choose a 'level' of their template. Depending on how powerful said template is, they could be doing this five or even ten levels, while still only a level 1 barbarian (with 1 hit dice!). Actually it sounds like (according to the OP) it automatically progresses as he levels up his barbarian class levels. I think it might not so much that your DM is purposely being unfair as much as he is just a noob DM. (from how you are describing it at least)
Friss_Kervrask 06-29-06, 11:05 AM	Yes it automatically progress with levels. Ho I forgot to say that he say that the Mindbinder is too powerful because he can have slaves...but my DM is playing in his own game and is playing a druid who will become a beastmaster and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companion...so he will have like 5 or 6 animals. And there is no special need for a vampire in the game for the plot. And last thing, my DM is a ''all same level'' fanatic
Cifer 06-29-06, 11:36 AM	Ask your DM if you can play something comparably powerful to your liking. If he declines, ask if you can play a half-vampire (probably Blade has poisoned the RPG-scene, but whatever) too. If he declines, ask why he does so.
Evingolis 06-29-06, 12:29 PM	how old.. ah.. young are you?
wonlee76 06-29-06, 12:57 PM	Your DM is fair for not allowing psionics. Its his world afterall. I don't agree with his reasoning but its in the DM's discretion to allow/disallow stuff as he sees fit. Without knowing more details, I have no idea if he's fair with the half-vamp ruling. It could be unfair (and on its face, it does look like that) but if he's doing a Savage Species type progression or possibly a "bloodline" type of thing from Unearthed Arcana, then it is fair. The price/benefits of the template or whatever is being spread out over several levels instead of giving all the benefits up front. Personally, I'd make a Half-Vamp Fighter then if you feel he's letting his little bro get an unfair advantage. May as well jump on the bandwagon and be treated equally. If fighter isn't your thing, find out more details on how the benefits are spread out to determine if you could make a competent spellcaster under his ruling for half-vamp.
Nom 06-29-06, 07:31 PM	but my DM is playing in his own gameminor red flag - it takes a certain degree of skill and finesse to "play a character" in a game that you are running. The main good reason for doing so is a "rotating DM" situation where the various players don't want to abandon their characters while they DM. In other scenarios, it's appropriate for the DM to propose that one or more NPCs accompany the PCs, but these should not "belong" to the DM any more than other NPCs do.and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companionMajor red flag. The DM is bringing a "personal" character and creating house rules in favour of his character? Prepare to sit back and watch the DM run an adventure for himself while you play as a hanger-on. 1st rule of good DM-ing: get your vicarious enjoyment by helping your players have fun, not by muscling them out of the way so you can show off to them.
Damior 06-29-06, 08:15 PM	The way you handle these DMs is either 1. Leave the campaign, as he is obviously favoring his brother 2.Punch them in the face and run like heck use whichever method you like best
Bruunwald 06-29-06, 08:22 PM	Savage Species has rules that allow for advancement of racial traits like to the way class levels advance. Essentially, you take a race as a class, and as you advance, you become more and more like that race, with more and more of their powers, etc. Your DM may be thinking of that. But here's his problem, and you can tell him I said so: He ought to be forcing his little brother to take levels as half-vampire alternately with his barbarian levels, as he would a multiclass character. Otherwise, you are correct that he is overpowering his little brother, since he would essentially be granting him the benefit of TWO FULL CLASSES PER LEVEL. Sucks.
SoldierOfFortune187 06-29-06, 08:26 PM	...but my DM is playing in his own game and is playing a druid who will become a beastmaster and with a feat he created that gives him a bonus animal companion... Oooh... ouch. Yeah, as said above me, the DM has decided to step into both sides of his own campaign and even streamline abilities just for his character... Danger, Will Robinson, danger! Take up your compounded concerns with the DM, without using the word 'favortism' (just cold, hard facts about what is going on), and see if he shall repent his evil ways. Barring a reform of playstyle, and the unlikelihood of just walking out on the game, roll up a carbon copy of one of the two headliner characters and watch them struggle to come up with reasons why you can't play that (I particularly like, "It would be just dumb to have two half-vampires in the party!").
DarkNick 06-29-06, 10:45 PM	Let him favor his brother. I would do the same if I had a little sibling playing. Sounds to me like his brother is young and probably needs a hand and might need a break. I rekon you should see how it goes first. You might find the little brother does not contribute as much as you guys anyway so it might all balance out at the end of the day. Enjoy the character you have. I've played in campigns where I was much weaker than the other party members yet I still had a blast. "just send the vampire in guys, he can handle it" "threaten them with the vampire dude, that will sort them out" "I'm hiding behind the vampire" "Hey vamp, do you want extra garlic in your stew tonight?" You are evil after all.
thenotoriousJIM 06-29-06, 11:43 PM	i hope you are CE to take full advange of sending your vamp into do everything. Take less risks and demand a fair share of the treasure. The Vamp is over powered so he can fight off more **** until he dies, and then you get his share of the loot too. If he keeps you all on the same level there is more a reason to be a wizard, since he iwll mess with the iteam creation stuff to keep everyone on the same level.
celtredleg 06-30-06, 01:08 AM	Listen to Nom, he has it right. Generaly, it is bad when a DM has a personal PC. There are a few who can do it, but most cant. When the DM has already added power ups to that PC, and the game has not even started, you are in for a front row seat to watch the DMPC do everything. Dont worry about little brother. The half vamp out of LM is only LA+2. If he continues the trend with the special feats, that Druid is going to rapidly overshadow everybody, even the vamp. Start looking for a new group. Play a game or two to find out if it is really broken, but be ready to bail. Also be ready to perform as the audience in the DMs show of awesomeness. Most of the time this really sucks.
kelvinaw273 06-30-06, 05:13 AM	There are two ways of doing a half-vampire - one is the vampiric bloodline from Unearthed Arcana (which sounds right if he gains power as he gains levels) - the other is the 'dhampir' template from Ravenoft. If the latter, you are right, he will get overpowered. Either way, it seems that the DM is one of the "psionics are too powerful" crowd, which is silly but he's entitled to set the rules as he sees fit.
BeginnerDM 06-30-06, 10:03 AM	I'd make a lawful evil half vampire monk. Name him: Baron Bann Von Wag'en Ju 'mper