is our DM trying to kill us? [Archive] - Wizards Community

is our DM trying to kill us? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ILL34GL3
07-04-05, 01:20 PM I just want some feedback on whether or not you guys think my DM is throwing encounters that are too deadly at us. I'll just list a few and you tell me what you think.

Us: 3rd level party of a druid w/wolf, a warlock, a ranger, and a rogue

vs.

Griffon x 3

Us: 4th level party of a fighter, a druid w/wolf, a ninja and a psychic warrior

vs.

5th level party of a ninja, cleric, wizard and two fighters

We usually only have one combat per session so I'm thinking maybe such seemingly highpowered encounters might actually be balanced. Comments?
Aeromus
07-04-05, 01:22 PM He's the DM that controls the bad guys.

Of course he's "trying" to kill you.

What fun would the game be if he didn't try?

But, since you didn't say anyone died.. I see no problem.
ILL34GL3
07-04-05, 01:35 PM Yeah, no one died in those two encounters, but in the last two sessions, we've had a character death each time. Last time was when our party of Druid5, Psionic Warrior5, Fighter4, and Ranger4 stopped to confront three humans that were following us.

Well one of those humans started off casting a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability so she was at least 7th level, and I believe the enemy rogue was 9th level and the enemy fighter with the wheel lock pistols that got four shots a round was about 10th level.

Is that a fair fight?
fallabel
07-04-05, 01:40 PM Did you have fun?
Yruc
07-04-05, 01:44 PM As long as its not the mentality of you vs the DM and everyone is having fun, then no problem, you don't want it to be a cake walk all of the time, then it would get boreing fast and then your characters would start to take insane risks all the time.

As long as you're having fun and everyone else is to, shouldn't be an issue.
Shaken, not Stunned
07-04-05, 02:10 PM If you are looking at one encounter per day, it should result in a character death unless you guys are careful, creative, and willing to expend resources. This seems to be mroe or less fair, and I hope your DM is trying to kill you.
Ut-Napishtim
07-04-05, 02:36 PM Sounds like your DM might simply want to run a more high-powered game. A lot of folks like spells and items that are usually only available at the higher levels, but they're also afraid they might lose control if they let their players have characters at those higher levels. One of my players was like this when I was helping him with his game. He started dropping artifacts on us at around 5th level. I explained to him that artifacts are cool and all, but they're kind of cheapened when complete nobodies are getting a new one every session. Later on he was working on some 15th level BBEG in intricate detail when the group was around 7th. I told him that was cool and all, but his campaign would probably be better served by focusing some effort on the next two or three adventures rather than what's going to happen 20 sessions from now. Failing that, if he really wanted to have all these artifacts and super-villians he could simply bump the game up to a higher level where it was more appropriate.
BrainMole
07-04-05, 02:46 PM Consider yourself lucky. Our DM isn't trying to kill us :( He kills.

Example: Unknown level Cybernetically echanhed Outlaw with staff which both ends end up with chainsaw blades and shotgun shell using pistol. [Didn't know this until we faced him]. vs. group of 4 4th level dudes. The BBEG dished average 80 points of damage / round :eek:, dodged with Evasion our Rocket. Had loot for about 100,000 cr.

This is my fourth character in the campaign and we started at level 3. [He leveled to 6th level after combats]
Sir Ferdinand
07-04-05, 03:05 PM In our latest gaming session, our DM (other of the two) killed both of us players (there's only 2 players and 1 DM. The other player runs a campaign on his own) and one NPC. Ok, it wasn't on purpose, like placing way too difficult enemies against us, but I just wanted to point out that sometimes players might just have bad luck.

In the battle where our PCs died, we encountered I think 6 or 7 large troll skeletons. And our party was mainly 7th level characters. But the skeletons attacked at night and our guard didn't notice the skeletons until they were at our camp. So when we got out of our tents, most of us caused attack of opportunities when we stood up.

We have a Cleric in our party and he turned about half of the skeletons, but the DM decided not to use more turn attempts, so that the Cleric could come to heal our characters. That was a mistake which caused us PCs to die.

Our new NPC died because of DM's lucky instant kill roll... 20, 20 and then hit and it was done. This happened in a different battle though.
Bruunwald
07-05-05, 01:46 PM If your DM is giving you only one encounter per session (or day), it seems he expects you to expend all resources doing it. In that case, these are fair fights.

And no, the DM should NOT be actively trying to kill the characters. The DM PLAYS the NPCs who want to kill the characters.

The difference should be obvious, but becomes painfully obvious when you've DM'd fairly, and you have someone whose boyfriend's character has died, who is genuinely and angrily accusing you of having done it on purpose.

If the DM is really trying to kill, rather than playing in the mind of someone who wants to, and can't see the difference, he's perhaps too vindictive to DM fairly.
Maerdash
07-05-05, 02:05 PM If the one encounter a day is a "rule" then yeah I'd say these are balanced.
UltimateReality
07-05-05, 03:27 PM UR/on_the_wings_of_TPK jointly:

Just figured I'd crunch the numbers, with the aid of my friendly DMG. (Chapter Three, Page 49 -- the section entitled "Encounters".) So let's see what we have here:

Encounter 1: was an EL 7. The party was only 3rd level. That's not too horrible -- something I would reserve for the BBEG, though even then I'd prolly lower it to an EL 5 or 6.

Encounter 2: EL 10. The party was only 4th level. This is starting to get a little excessive, but again within the CR range for you guys. (An encounter either 8 higher than you or 8 lower is off the charts, and generally should not happen unless something is seriously amiss. (Table 2-6 Experience Points
Awards, p. 38.)) Also, this isn't something I would send against my party unless they were doing something really dumb.

Encounter 3: EL 12 versus a party of 5th level. This is about as hard as it is supposed to get. This really should have been overpowering, and the fact that any of you survived at all is nothing short of amazing. Something is definately wrong here. I'm also noticing a trend here and if it continues, we won't even be able to chart these encounters.

How much XP did you gain from the fights? (It should have been a lot.)

Given that there is only one encounter per day I would set it at maybe 3 higher than the PCs. But then one encounter per day would make for a pretty boring night...there are more types of encounters than purely combat (DMG, p. 40).

I think something else may be going on. Your DM may be misreading the chart and thinking your party's CR is figured out the same way as the monsters'. Are you playing 3.5 or 3.0? (Experience for characters of different levels is calculated different ways.) Your characters may be overpowered somehow. What did you use for ability score and hit point generation? How much wealth does the party have, and how have they used it? And how is the DM playing the encounters? Are they intelegent and using tactics? Or are they stupid and just running up and smashing the first thing they see?
Fiery_Overlord
07-05-05, 04:17 PM I would note that according to the DMG the appropriate mix of encounters include 5% that you should flee to survive with the entire party intact. Remember that. That means everything you run into will not be an easy kill or even your power level.

This ratio of easy to hard enounters is found page 49 DMG 3.5

Running into one encounter beyond your level could just mean that your DM might have read that page. Keep track of how many lethal encounters there are though(if it gets near 50% lethal encounters then he is trying to kill you or has great faith in you). If it was a wooded area breaking line of sight with trees and then hiding is a good idea. Level a few times then come back and have griffon BBQ.

Also since you only have one combat per session you don't have to worry about recovering for the next battle as much, and the high CR (quality) makes up for limited number (quantity) of encounters for XP purposes.
ILL34GL3
07-07-05, 06:44 AM UR/on_the_wings_of_TPK jointly:

Just figured I'd crunch the numbers, with the aid of my friendly DMG. (Chapter Three, Page 49 -- the section entitled "Encounters".) So let's see what we have here:

Encounter 1: was an EL 7. The party was only 3rd level. That's not too horrible -- something I would reserve for the BBEG, though even then I'd prolly lower it to an EL 5 or 6.

Encounter 2: EL 10. The party was only 4th level. This is starting to get a little excessive, but again within the CR range for you guys. (An encounter either 8 higher than you or 8 lower is off the charts, and generally should not happen unless something is seriously amiss. (Table 2-6 Experience Points
Awards, p. 38.)) Also, this isn't something I would send against my party unless they were doing something really dumb.

Encounter 3: EL 12 versus a party of 5th level. This is about as hard as it is supposed to get. This really should have been overpowering, and the fact that any of you survived at all is nothing short of amazing. Something is definately wrong here. I'm also noticing a trend here and if it continues, we won't even be able to chart these encounters.

How much XP did you gain from the fights? (It should have been a lot.)

Given that there is only one encounter per day I would set it at maybe 3 higher than the PCs. But then one encounter per day would make for a pretty boring night...there are more types of encounters than purely combat (DMG, p. 40).

I think something else may be going on. Your DM may be misreading the chart and thinking your party's CR is figured out the same way as the monsters'. Are you playing 3.5 or 3.0? (Experience for characters of different levels is calculated different ways.) Your characters may be overpowered somehow. What did you use for ability score and hit point generation? How much wealth does the party have, and how have they used it? And how is the DM playing the encounters? Are they intelegent and using tactics? Or are they stupid and just running up and smashing the first thing they see?
Thanks for the breakdown. Actually the last encounter I detailed was a party of 7,8 and 9 level characters. We play 3.5 and we're not getting alot of xp for them. I think we're getting xp for each griffon individually instead of as one encounter.
MarkB
07-07-05, 08:08 AM Thanks for the breakdown. Actually the last encounter I detailed was a party of 7,8 and 9 level characters. We play 3.5 and we're not getting alot of xp for them. I think we're getting xp for each griffon individually instead of as one encounter.
That's as it should be (and to your advantage in the first case - three CR4 creatures are worth more XP to a 3rd-level party than one CR7 creature). As a party of four, you should have received a little over 1,000 XP each for the griffons, and 2,000 XP each for the 5th-level party (assuming no situational modifiers to the encounter difficulty).
FreeTheSlaves
07-07-05, 08:29 AM Why are you fighting such difficult foes? Higher level characters have learned to _survive_ the lower levels, everything else is just gravy.
kam_Islash
07-07-05, 11:16 AM When a pack of Sirrushes come at you, then yeah...he's trying to kill you.

///
Lycanthromancer
07-07-05, 11:48 AM At least your DM isn't doing what my last DM did. When someone throws you into an encounter that you have no probable hope of surviving (ie sending a party of 16th level characters against a 60th Level Demigod - with an extra 20 Outsider HD !!!!!!!!!) and giving you no way out, including teleporting or running away, that's when you know that the DM is trying to kill you.

Insanely, we actually survived that encounter (and beat the Demigod, to boot), although its AC was too high to hit, and its SR and saves were so high that the casters/manifesters of the group couldn't hope to damage it.

The only way that we could have hoped to survive it was that a twinked-out paladin character managed to critical hit on a smite. His weapon was a Holy, Bane-Outsiders, +something-or-other weapon, with x4 damage. He hit on a natural 20 (twice), although he didn't confirm the insta-kill. That's alright though, since with all of the feats and spells he had up his sleeve, he managed to pull off well over 2,000 hp of damage.

You know what the DM did after that? Do you? DO YOU?!He told us that the creature had a Contingencied Resurrection up!!! %!@#?<!!!!!

Luckily the player of the Paladin came up with something brilliant. He had a Wish from a Deck of Many Things coming, and made it something to the effect of "I wish that my next strike is as true as my last." Lucky us...

Therefore, will killed the thing twice over. :eek: I can't believe we managed that (although the Paladin was the real hero...).

The sick thing was that the DM didn't even give us any XP for the battle, since it was more than 8 levels above us.

I left the group in disgust after that, and don't plan on going back.

Apparently the group limped home after I had gone, spells and PP depleted, and HP nearly gone, although everyone managed to survive. Guess what happened then! An ancient wyrm green dragon swooped down on the party, casting multiple Wail of the Banshees on them, decimating the entire group. Game over.

That's when you know your DM is trying to kill you.

@!#$$%@
kam_Islash
07-07-05, 11:55 AM Wow...that sucks.
Our DM would have given us XP for being clever enough to survive that!

I heard a story about this time when an old party tried to defeat a dragon from afar with catapults, but he gated in behind them and burned them to death.
sleepydeath
07-07-05, 12:03 PM my dms tries to kill us all the time :D i like that, thats fun and not so easy play like "omg a zombie, hit, zombie death"

cause i am a min/max i am always the one who survives at min. 0 hp ;P

start to powergame and have fun ;)
Treymordin
07-07-05, 12:19 PM That is nothing. Our DM who use to DM both Star Wars and Greyhawk for us was always trying to kill the little guys that play with us. He also cheated in that he would allow the Bad Guys to cast spells that they couldnt, for example, an evil cleric spontaneously casting cure spells and casting way too many spells of a level. It was really bad.
Siduakal
07-07-05, 01:03 PM A) If your DM is trying to kill you, he'll succeed.

B) My 4th level Wizard solo took out a Griffon and it's rider in one round.. (The Rider was a 4th level fighter).. No one else in the party even got a turn to act.

How? Smart thinking. I asked the DM if I could time it so that my web would connect with the wings JUST as they were at the top of their upward arcs to lock them together. (It was in the air kinda dive bomb charging us with the rider readying his weapon) He said "Hm.. smart.. sure" It failed the DC to avoid the web. He gave it a strength check to see if it could break its wings open and keep flying, it failed it.

It crashed to the ground for oodles of fall damage and the rider was trapped to it with the webbing.

Knocked both of them unconscious.

Sure, if it had been a fight where I tried to use damage spells it probably would of lasted a VERY long time. (DM predicted it to last at the very minimum 6 rounds)

Think about how you can take things down or hinder them without using offensive damage spells. You'll really be amazed what you can do. Everything from your spot check warranting you a glance of something in the shadows so you cast faerie fire on it rather than yell to the group "There's something out there!" so that they can SEE it out there.. To casting Tasha's Hideous Laughter to put something out of the fight for 5+ rounds.

Just think about strategy. You guys may need to think about cutting down on the melees in the party for casters. A utility caster can sway the scales of power greatly.
Wenin
07-07-05, 04:24 PM How? Smart thinking. I asked the DM if I could time it so that my web would connect with the wings JUST as they were at the top of their upward arcs to lock them together. (It was in the air kinda dive bomb charging us with the rider readying his weapon) He said "Hm.. smart.. sure" It failed the DC to avoid the web. He gave it a strength check to see if it could break its wings open and keep flying, it failed it.

It crashed to the ground for oodles of fall damage and the rider was trapped to it with the webbing.

What was the DC the DM set for you to get that timing right?

I don't have a PHB in front of me, but doesn't a web spell need solid points to attach itself to..... if not... then you could web a target to itself anyday and time.

I think you succeeded because your DM was easy on the rules, than your clever strategy.
Siduakal
07-07-05, 04:30 PM No. You can fire a web at an enemy OR you can attach a web to two parallel surfaces. It has many uses. In this instance, he fired it at the thing to catch the thing in it's radius.

After you fire the web, it closes in on itself when it hits something. So if you're firing it and they make the save.. it's pretty much done. If they don't, they're caught.

And I forgot the DC. It happened a month or two so ago.

I've also in a large scale battle though used Ghost Sound to mimic the enemy trumpet sounds. (I learned them with an intelligence check from listening/watching them...) They were using a very distinct one for half, forward, and retreat.

So he just ordered a forward when they ordered a halt.. halt when they ordered forward.. Now the trumpeteers of the groups close to him KNEW it came from ahead of them, so they went with the real orders. But the ones further down the lines it was ruled were hearing it from "Off to the right" or "Off to the left" and couldn't tell it wasn't their ally.

It borked their organizational skills for enough rounds that it gave an edge in the battle.

-shrug- Just be creative with your spell uses. The illusion ones, especially, let you do a LOT if you're creative.

And my DMs aren't EVER easy on me. I had to fight an epic level monster (lavawight) with an ECL 13 character. (The party is ECL average level 11, but no one else got involved) And suffered permanent hit point loss because it won init and I couldn't retreat without taking it's full attack first. So no.. my DMs aren't easy on me. The only time I REALLY get lucky is when things roll poorly on their saves.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ILL34GL3 07-04-05, 01:20 PM	I just want some feedback on whether or not you guys think my DM is throwing encounters that are too deadly at us. I'll just list a few and you tell me what you think. Us: 3rd level party of a druid w/wolf, a warlock, a ranger, and a rogue vs. Griffon x 3 Us: 4th level party of a fighter, a druid w/wolf, a ninja and a psychic warrior vs. 5th level party of a ninja, cleric, wizard and two fighters We usually only have one combat per session so I'm thinking maybe such seemingly highpowered encounters might actually be balanced. Comments?
Aeromus 07-04-05, 01:22 PM	He's the DM that controls the bad guys. Of course he's "trying" to kill you. What fun would the game be if he didn't try? But, since you didn't say anyone died.. I see no problem.
ILL34GL3 07-04-05, 01:35 PM	Yeah, no one died in those two encounters, but in the last two sessions, we've had a character death each time. Last time was when our party of Druid5, Psionic Warrior5, Fighter4, and Ranger4 stopped to confront three humans that were following us. Well one of those humans started off casting a Lesser Globe of Invulnerability so she was at least 7th level, and I believe the enemy rogue was 9th level and the enemy fighter with the wheel lock pistols that got four shots a round was about 10th level. Is that a fair fight?
fallabel 07-04-05, 01:40 PM	Did you have fun?
Yruc 07-04-05, 01:44 PM	As long as its not the mentality of you vs the DM and everyone is having fun, then no problem, you don't want it to be a cake walk all of the time, then it would get boreing fast and then your characters would start to take insane risks all the time. As long as you're having fun and everyone else is to, shouldn't be an issue.
Shaken, not Stunned 07-04-05, 02:10 PM	If you are looking at one encounter per day, it should result in a character death unless you guys are careful, creative, and willing to expend resources. This seems to be mroe or less fair, and I hope your DM is trying to kill you.
Ut-Napishtim 07-04-05, 02:36 PM	Sounds like your DM might simply want to run a more high-powered game. A lot of folks like spells and items that are usually only available at the higher levels, but they're also afraid they might lose control if they let their players have characters at those higher levels. One of my players was like this when I was helping him with his game. He started dropping artifacts on us at around 5th level. I explained to him that artifacts are cool and all, but they're kind of cheapened when complete nobodies are getting a new one every session. Later on he was working on some 15th level BBEG in intricate detail when the group was around 7th. I told him that was cool and all, but his campaign would probably be better served by focusing some effort on the next two or three adventures rather than what's going to happen 20 sessions from now. Failing that, if he really wanted to have all these artifacts and super-villians he could simply bump the game up to a higher level where it was more appropriate.
BrainMole 07-04-05, 02:46 PM	Consider yourself lucky. Our DM isn't trying to kill us :( He kills. Example: Unknown level Cybernetically echanhed Outlaw with staff which both ends end up with chainsaw blades and shotgun shell using pistol. [Didn't know this until we faced him]. vs. group of 4 4th level dudes. The BBEG dished average 80 points of damage / round :eek:, dodged with Evasion our Rocket. Had loot for about 100,000 cr. This is my fourth character in the campaign and we started at level 3. [He leveled to 6th level after combats]
Sir Ferdinand 07-04-05, 03:05 PM	In our latest gaming session, our DM (other of the two) killed both of us players (there's only 2 players and 1 DM. The other player runs a campaign on his own) and one NPC. Ok, it wasn't on purpose, like placing way too difficult enemies against us, but I just wanted to point out that sometimes players might just have bad luck. In the battle where our PCs died, we encountered I think 6 or 7 large troll skeletons. And our party was mainly 7th level characters. But the skeletons attacked at night and our guard didn't notice the skeletons until they were at our camp. So when we got out of our tents, most of us caused attack of opportunities when we stood up. We have a Cleric in our party and he turned about half of the skeletons, but the DM decided not to use more turn attempts, so that the Cleric could come to heal our characters. That was a mistake which caused us PCs to die. Our new NPC died because of DM's lucky instant kill roll... 20, 20 and then hit and it was done. This happened in a different battle though.
Bruunwald 07-05-05, 01:46 PM	If your DM is giving you only one encounter per session (or day), it seems he expects you to expend all resources doing it. In that case, these are fair fights. And no, the DM should NOT be actively trying to kill the characters. The DM PLAYS the NPCs who want to kill the characters. The difference should be obvious, but becomes painfully obvious when you've DM'd fairly, and you have someone whose boyfriend's character has died, who is genuinely and angrily accusing you of having done it on purpose. If the DM is really trying to kill, rather than playing in the mind of someone who wants to, and can't see the difference, he's perhaps too vindictive to DM fairly.
Maerdash 07-05-05, 02:05 PM	If the one encounter a day is a "rule" then yeah I'd say these are balanced.
UltimateReality 07-05-05, 03:27 PM	UR/on_the_wings_of_TPK jointly: Just figured I'd crunch the numbers, with the aid of my friendly DMG. (Chapter Three, Page 49 -- the section entitled "Encounters".) So let's see what we have here: Encounter 1: was an EL 7. The party was only 3rd level. That's not too horrible -- something I would reserve for the BBEG, though even then I'd prolly lower it to an EL 5 or 6. Encounter 2: EL 10. The party was only 4th level. This is starting to get a little excessive, but again within the CR range for you guys. (An encounter either 8 higher than you or 8 lower is off the charts, and generally should not happen unless something is seriously amiss. (Table 2-6 Experience Points Awards, p. 38.)) Also, this isn't something I would send against my party unless they were doing something really dumb. Encounter 3: EL 12 versus a party of 5th level. This is about as hard as it is supposed to get. This really should have been overpowering, and the fact that any of you survived at all is nothing short of amazing. Something is definately wrong here. I'm also noticing a trend here and if it continues, we won't even be able to chart these encounters. How much XP did you gain from the fights? (It should have been a lot.) Given that there is only one encounter per day I would set it at maybe 3 higher than the PCs. But then one encounter per day would make for a pretty boring night...there are more types of encounters than purely combat (DMG, p. 40). I think something else may be going on. Your DM may be misreading the chart and thinking your party's CR is figured out the same way as the monsters'. Are you playing 3.5 or 3.0? (Experience for characters of different levels is calculated different ways.) Your characters may be overpowered somehow. What did you use for ability score and hit point generation? How much wealth does the party have, and how have they used it? And how is the DM playing the encounters? Are they intelegent and using tactics? Or are they stupid and just running up and smashing the first thing they see?
Fiery_Overlord 07-05-05, 04:17 PM	I would note that according to the DMG the appropriate mix of encounters include 5% that you should flee to survive with the entire party intact. Remember that. That means everything you run into will not be an easy kill or even your power level. This ratio of easy to hard enounters is found page 49 DMG 3.5 Running into one encounter beyond your level could just mean that your DM might have read that page. Keep track of how many lethal encounters there are though(if it gets near 50% lethal encounters then he is trying to kill you or has great faith in you). If it was a wooded area breaking line of sight with trees and then hiding is a good idea. Level a few times then come back and have griffon BBQ. Also since you only have one combat per session you don't have to worry about recovering for the next battle as much, and the high CR (quality) makes up for limited number (quantity) of encounters for XP purposes.
ILL34GL3 07-07-05, 06:44 AM	UR/on_the_wings_of_TPK jointly: Just figured I'd crunch the numbers, with the aid of my friendly DMG. (Chapter Three, Page 49 -- the section entitled "Encounters".) So let's see what we have here: Encounter 1: was an EL 7. The party was only 3rd level. That's not too horrible -- something I would reserve for the BBEG, though even then I'd prolly lower it to an EL 5 or 6. Encounter 2: EL 10. The party was only 4th level. This is starting to get a little excessive, but again within the CR range for you guys. (An encounter either 8 higher than you or 8 lower is off the charts, and generally should not happen unless something is seriously amiss. (Table 2-6 Experience Points Awards, p. 38.)) Also, this isn't something I would send against my party unless they were doing something really dumb. Encounter 3: EL 12 versus a party of 5th level. This is about as hard as it is supposed to get. This really should have been overpowering, and the fact that any of you survived at all is nothing short of amazing. Something is definately wrong here. I'm also noticing a trend here and if it continues, we won't even be able to chart these encounters. How much XP did you gain from the fights? (It should have been a lot.) Given that there is only one encounter per day I would set it at maybe 3 higher than the PCs. But then one encounter per day would make for a pretty boring night...there are more types of encounters than purely combat (DMG, p. 40). I think something else may be going on. Your DM may be misreading the chart and thinking your party's CR is figured out the same way as the monsters'. Are you playing 3.5 or 3.0? (Experience for characters of different levels is calculated different ways.) Your characters may be overpowered somehow. What did you use for ability score and hit point generation? How much wealth does the party have, and how have they used it? And how is the DM playing the encounters? Are they intelegent and using tactics? Or are they stupid and just running up and smashing the first thing they see? Thanks for the breakdown. Actually the last encounter I detailed was a party of 7,8 and 9 level characters. We play 3.5 and we're not getting alot of xp for them. I think we're getting xp for each griffon individually instead of as one encounter.
MarkB 07-07-05, 08:08 AM	Thanks for the breakdown. Actually the last encounter I detailed was a party of 7,8 and 9 level characters. We play 3.5 and we're not getting alot of xp for them. I think we're getting xp for each griffon individually instead of as one encounter. That's as it should be (and to your advantage in the first case - three CR4 creatures are worth more XP to a 3rd-level party than one CR7 creature). As a party of four, you should have received a little over 1,000 XP each for the griffons, and 2,000 XP each for the 5th-level party (assuming no situational modifiers to the encounter difficulty).
FreeTheSlaves 07-07-05, 08:29 AM	Why are you fighting such difficult foes? Higher level characters have learned to _survive_ the lower levels, everything else is just gravy.
kam_Islash 07-07-05, 11:16 AM	When a pack of Sirrushes come at you, then yeah...he's trying to kill you. ///
Lycanthromancer 07-07-05, 11:48 AM	At least your DM isn't doing what my last DM did. When someone throws you into an encounter that you have no probable hope of surviving (ie sending a party of 16th level characters against a 60th Level Demigod - with an extra 20 Outsider HD !!!!!!!!!) and giving you no way out, including teleporting or running away, that's when you know that the DM is trying to kill you. Insanely, we actually survived that encounter (and beat the Demigod, to boot), although its AC was too high to hit, and its SR and saves were so high that the casters/manifesters of the group couldn't hope to damage it. The only way that we could have hoped to survive it was that a twinked-out paladin character managed to critical hit on a smite. His weapon was a Holy, Bane-Outsiders, +something-or-other weapon, with x4 damage. He hit on a natural 20 (twice), although he didn't confirm the insta-kill. That's alright though, since with all of the feats and spells he had up his sleeve, he managed to pull off well over 2,000 hp of damage. You know what the DM did after that? Do you? DO YOU?!He told us that the creature had a Contingencied Resurrection up!!! %!@#?<!!!!! Luckily the player of the Paladin came up with something brilliant. He had a Wish from a Deck of Many Things coming, and made it something to the effect of "I wish that my next strike is as true as my last." Lucky us... Therefore, will killed the thing twice over. :eek: I can't believe we managed that (although the Paladin was the real hero...). The sick thing was that the DM didn't even give us any XP for the battle, since it was more than 8 levels above us. I left the group in disgust after that, and don't plan on going back. Apparently the group limped home after I had gone, spells and PP depleted, and HP nearly gone, although everyone managed to survive. Guess what happened then! An ancient wyrm green dragon swooped down on the party, casting multiple Wail of the Banshees on them, decimating the entire group. Game over. That's when you know your DM is trying to kill you. @!#$$%@
kam_Islash 07-07-05, 11:55 AM	Wow...that sucks. Our DM would have given us XP for being clever enough to survive that! I heard a story about this time when an old party tried to defeat a dragon from afar with catapults, but he gated in behind them and burned them to death.
sleepydeath 07-07-05, 12:03 PM	my dms tries to kill us all the time :D i like that, thats fun and not so easy play like "omg a zombie, hit, zombie death" cause i am a min/max i am always the one who survives at min. 0 hp ;P start to powergame and have fun ;)
Treymordin 07-07-05, 12:19 PM	That is nothing. Our DM who use to DM both Star Wars and Greyhawk for us was always trying to kill the little guys that play with us. He also cheated in that he would allow the Bad Guys to cast spells that they couldnt, for example, an evil cleric spontaneously casting cure spells and casting way too many spells of a level. It was really bad.
Siduakal 07-07-05, 01:03 PM	A) If your DM is trying to kill you, he'll succeed. B) My 4th level Wizard solo took out a Griffon and it's rider in one round.. (The Rider was a 4th level fighter).. No one else in the party even got a turn to act. How? Smart thinking. I asked the DM if I could time it so that my web would connect with the wings JUST as they were at the top of their upward arcs to lock them together. (It was in the air kinda dive bomb charging us with the rider readying his weapon) He said "Hm.. smart.. sure" It failed the DC to avoid the web. He gave it a strength check to see if it could break its wings open and keep flying, it failed it. It crashed to the ground for oodles of fall damage and the rider was trapped to it with the webbing. Knocked both of them unconscious. Sure, if it had been a fight where I tried to use damage spells it probably would of lasted a VERY long time. (DM predicted it to last at the very minimum 6 rounds) Think about how you can take things down or hinder them without using offensive damage spells. You'll really be amazed what you can do. Everything from your spot check warranting you a glance of something in the shadows so you cast faerie fire on it rather than yell to the group "There's something out there!" so that they can SEE it out there.. To casting Tasha's Hideous Laughter to put something out of the fight for 5+ rounds. Just think about strategy. You guys may need to think about cutting down on the melees in the party for casters. A utility caster can sway the scales of power greatly.
Wenin 07-07-05, 04:24 PM	How? Smart thinking. I asked the DM if I could time it so that my web would connect with the wings JUST as they were at the top of their upward arcs to lock them together. (It was in the air kinda dive bomb charging us with the rider readying his weapon) He said "Hm.. smart.. sure" It failed the DC to avoid the web. He gave it a strength check to see if it could break its wings open and keep flying, it failed it. It crashed to the ground for oodles of fall damage and the rider was trapped to it with the webbing. What was the DC the DM set for you to get that timing right? I don't have a PHB in front of me, but doesn't a web spell need solid points to attach itself to..... if not... then you could web a target to itself anyday and time. I think you succeeded because your DM was easy on the rules, than your clever strategy.
Siduakal 07-07-05, 04:30 PM	No. You can fire a web at an enemy OR you can attach a web to two parallel surfaces. It has many uses. In this instance, he fired it at the thing to catch the thing in it's radius. After you fire the web, it closes in on itself when it hits something. So if you're firing it and they make the save.. it's pretty much done. If they don't, they're caught. And I forgot the DC. It happened a month or two so ago. I've also in a large scale battle though used Ghost Sound to mimic the enemy trumpet sounds. (I learned them with an intelligence check from listening/watching them...) They were using a very distinct one for half, forward, and retreat. So he just ordered a forward when they ordered a halt.. halt when they ordered forward.. Now the trumpeteers of the groups close to him KNEW it came from ahead of them, so they went with the real orders. But the ones further down the lines it was ruled were hearing it from "Off to the right" or "Off to the left" and couldn't tell it wasn't their ally. It borked their organizational skills for enough rounds that it gave an edge in the battle. -shrug- Just be creative with your spell uses. The illusion ones, especially, let you do a LOT if you're creative. And my DMs aren't EVER easy on me. I had to fight an epic level monster (lavawight) with an ECL 13 character. (The party is ECL average level 11, but no one else got involved) And suffered permanent hit point loss because it won init and I couldn't retreat without taking it's full attack first. So no.. my DMs aren't easy on me. The only time I REALLY get lucky is when things roll poorly on their saves.