Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The Game 01-24-06, 09:55 AM	Hello all, I have been involved in a dnd campaign for a little over a year now, and have stuck with the same character the whole time. The game is set in Greyhawk, and the DM has allocated a magic user rarity (So mages, sorc’s ect, are much, much rarer than they are in other settings), so playing a wizard has allowed me a great amount of room to move in developing background, rp’ing potential ect. What I am wondering however, is whether after all this time I have actually created an interesting character. I know, it may sound odd or perhaps a bit vein, but Im genuinely interested to know whether other people find what I have put a bit of imagination into, well, frankly: interesting. Ive put both description and the block of stats, so readers can skip to either one, which ever takes your interest more :) oOo Born into a wealthy family within the Kingdom of Iuz, magical potential clear from a young age, little Lilith seemed to have her destiny carved in stone. Magic is a vast rarity, yet blessed was she in that her family had a long tradition of producing powerful mages for the Kingdom of Iuz, yet growing up, Lilith had always found her interest lay with the highly experimental art of science, in particular: building things. Torn between her love for engineering and math’s and a stern familiy tradition to honor, Lilith’s indecision began to greatly effect her studies under the tutelage of an accomplished wizard of the realm. Short of tolerance as he was (and somewhat crazy), he took no hesitation in casting the young teenager from his teachings, humiliating Lilith’s parents in the process. She barely escaped their wrath with her life, stealing what money she could and fleeing into the nearby kingdoms. Wandering the land, with no place to call home Lilith made a strange friend amongst a woods she was passing: an adolescent minotaur, a few years younger than herself. His own differences had caused him to flee his own people, and seeing within the creature the spark of intelligence akin to that of a human, Lilith gave the creature a name, taught him to read as well as other survival tips and the two have been friends ever since. Eventually parting way’s to pursue personal revenues, Lilith was now in her late teen’s, and had been practicing what she had learned during her time in study: surprisingly, she was also advancing. Stopping at farms and inn’s to work for money while she travelled, Lilith soon fell in with a boyish humoured farmer’s son, the way she utterly outstripped him mentally yet remaining on close terms fascinated her, and fascination soon turned to affection. However, when she was discovered studying her spellbook by the farmer she was working for, she was run out of town by a mob united against what they believed to be a witch, as a result, she never saw her first true charm again, yet it was not long until she gave birth to their daughter. Regrettably, she had to give her first child to an orphanage, for she believed they could give it a far better life than a travelling witch. Still relatively young, at the age of 22, Lilith soon came to the attention of a fledgling baron and his travelling party of adventurers seeking out the leader of a mysterious cult that had been plaguing the lands. Requesting help, Lilith soon came to replace the “wizard” the baron had been keeping company with, as her own abilities far out stripped his: her magnetic personality also making her popular amongst the Baron’s courtly friends, though fear and misunderstanding of her magical prowess keeping any from truly becoming her friend. In the following years, the party adventured considerably, ending dire evil’s and preventing many more, and as the parties fame grew, so did Lilith’s magical power, eventually to such an extent, she claimed the prestigious title of Archmage. To make matters better, the adventuring troupe even met up with Lilith’s old friend, Heidenreich, and he has been a hard hitting member of the group since. It was when destroying a minion of Orcus, in the infested frost giant fortress in the crystal mountains, that the Baron that had recruited Lilith a handful of years ago, instated her with the responsibility of the fortress itself: a present, after the sometimes pivotal role she had played whilst being a member of his entourage. This, however, created something of a dilemma in the young Archmage. It resurfaced the sense of family pride and tradition, as she had been given a rather impressive estate to call her own: a fortress from which she could hang her new, personal symbol. But to recreate something worthy of her families honor, whilst studying magic, and furthering her knowledge of science were monolithic task’s that she could not hope to achieve in this life time: more so if she soon planned to return her daughter to her. Then, it dawned upon her. They were to large a task’s for a single life time, but what if she could endure on forever? Being taught in the Kingdom of Iuz, Lilith was not as fickle about the darker aspects of magic’s as the wizards were of other nations. In fact, she readily used them during her adventuring: a stain upon all the good she had done that was stopping her from truly sliding over to the side of true good guy. Whilst she researched other avenue’s, Lilith eventually came to the single most logical conclusion: Such a trivial thing as mortality should not interfere with the furthering of knowledge, potentially even civilization. Lichdom, it seemed, was the perfect choice. The funds needed for such a transformation was readily available, as her adventures had made her a rather wealthy young woman, and after choosing the thing that meant the most to her in the world as her phylacetry – a small art portrait of her daughter in a little golden locket – Lilith undertook the procedure, and emerged a powerful young Lich, achieving the position at only 24. To keep her appearance as often as she can, Lilith using the spell Gentle Response fortnightly to ensure her body is immune to the rotting effects Lichdom has plagued spellcaster’s who show little concern’s for appearance. She need’s it however, for she has decided to wait until her adventuring peer’s discover her new race, rather than her telling them. The evil act of becoming a Lich in the first place brought her conscience down considerably, but the good she has done – and the passion for daughter – keep’s her above the level of fiend. What would happen should she lose both of those things however, remains to be seen. Lord Lilith Von Drak: Female human/Lich wizard 14/Archmage 1; CR 17; Medium humanoid; HD 86+12*; hp 96; Init +5; Spd 30 ft; AC 20; touch 11; flat-footed 19; Base Atk +7; Grp +7; Atk +8/+3 melee (2d4+D6,+1 Acid Scythe) or +7/+2 touch (1d8+5, Lich Touch attack); Full Atk +8/+3 melee (2d4+d6, +1 Acid Scythe) or +7/+2 touch (1d8+5, Lich Touch Attack); SA Damaging touch, Fear aura, Paralyzing touch, spells; SQ Undead, +4 Turn Resistance, Damage Reduction 15/+1, immunities, High Arcana: Spell Power +1, Summon Familiar**; AL Neutral; SV Fort +8, Ref +9, Will +21; Str 11, Dex 12, Con -, Int 27, Wis 19, Cha 17. Skills and Feats: Concentration +18, Decipher Script +12, Diplomacy +7, Hide +9, Knowledge(Arcana) +26, Knowledge(Religion) +12, Knowledge (Engineering and architecture) +20, Knowledge (The Planes) +15, Knowledge (Physics) +13, Move Silently +9, Perform (Oratory Speeches) +11, Search +19, Spellcraft +28, Spot +15 ; Scribe Scroll, Imp. Initiative, Spell Focus: Enchantment, Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment, Spell Focus: Necromancy, Iron Will, Craft Wondrous Items, Craft Magic Weapons and Armor, Skill Focus: Spellcraft, Leadership, Martial Weapons Proficiency: Scythe***. *The gm does not allow us to roll for HP, instead we automatically get the average for every lvl in addition to our Con modifier. ** Lilith chooses not to summon a familiar, for she see’s it as more of a vulnerability than an asset. ***As granted by the Bracers of Reaping item. Languages: Common, Draconian, Elven, Orc, Dwarven Possessions: Backpack, 5 spell books, 1 Spell Grimoire, +4 Cloak of Resistance, Spell Component Pouch, Signet Ring, Fold out work station, Gem of True seeing, Headband of Intellect +4, Bracers of Reaping, Ring of Wizardy 2, Brooch of Magic Missile Absorbtion, Phylacetry (Small golden locket, containing a picture of her daughter, natural protection spells abound). Pets: Zombie Dragon – Raised from the corpse of an Adult Green Dragon and remains hidden within the bowels of her domain. Domain: An expansive mountain laid blizzard fortress in the crystal mist mountains that was once occupied by frost giants, but is now occupied by the lich Lilith Von Drak. Wizard Spells Prepared (caster level 15th (16 in some cases, Spell Power +1); no specialty). *’s indicate the number of times prepared, no *’s means only prepared once: 0 - Detect Magic, Light, Ghost Sounds, Read Magic (DC 18); 1st - magic missile **. Floating Disc, Disguise Self, Grease, Hypnotism (DC 19, Enchant DC 23, Necromancy DC 21); 2nd – Glitterdust, Invisibility, Shatter **, Web, Protection from Arrows **, Haste **, Scare **, Mirror Image (DC 20, Ench DC 24, Nec 22); 3rd – Dispell Magic, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Fly, Deep Slumber, Blink (DC 21, Ench DC 25, Nec 23); 4th – Black Tentacles, Phantasmical Killer, Enervation, Wall of Fire, Fear, Improved Invisbility (DC 22, Ench DC 26, Nec 24); 5th- Dominate Person, Wall of Force, Teleport, Telekinesis (DC 23, Ench DC 27, Nec 24); 6th – Disintegrate **, Antimagic Field, Circle of Death (DC 24, Ench 28, Nec 26); 7th – Force Cage, Finger of Death, Insanity (DC 25, Ench 29, Nec 27); 8th – Summon Monster VIII, Maze (DC 26, Ench 30, Dec 28). Spellbook: 0 - all; 1st – Mage armor, identify, magic missile, feather fall, disguise self, silent image, comprehend languages, hypnotism, charm person, grease, ray of enfeeblement, chill touch, floating disc; 2nd – Glitterdust, invisibility, shatter, web, command undead, protection from arrows, haste, scare, ghoul touch, mirror image; 3rd – Dispell Magic, explosive runes, fireball, lightning bolt, fly, deep slumber, vampiric touch, halt undead, blink, gentle response, nondetection; 4th – Black tentacles, phantasmical killer, enervation, scrying, fear, Improved Invisibility, Wall of fire; 5th – Animate Dead, dominate person, wall of force, teleport, break enchantment, shadow evocation, magic jar, telekinesis, prying eyes, leomunds secret chest; 6th – Disintegrate, antimagic field, circle of death, control water, legend lore, project image, greater dispel; 7th – Finger of death, control undead, reverse gravity, force cage, insanity; 8th – Summon Monster VIII, horrible wilting, otto’s irresistible dance, telekinetic sphere, screen, clone, maze. Leadership Follower: A young minotaur, Heidenreich is big, even for his species. 9"2, covered in steel grey fur and brandishing a pair of forward jutting horns the length of a man's forearm, Heidenreich is an imposing figure. Even more so, as he can generally be found covered head to toe in a custom made, spied full plate suit and brandishing a flaming axe the size of a fully grown man. Despite his brutish appearance, Heidenreich is actually very intelligent for a Minotaur, and in some cases more so than many humans. This heightened intelligence was what allowed Lilith to tutor him into a wider range of thinking, enabling him to grasp concepts of thought beyond that of a common minotaur: concepts that fascinated the young bull. While to enemies he is a terrible foe to come across, he is surprisingly gentle to his idol and savior, Lilith Von Drak, and for evil or good, he wants to live out his days following her to repay a debt he believes he owes her for granting him the greatest thing possible: the ability to think. Heidenreich: Male Minotaur 6/Fighter5; Large Monstrous Humanoid; HD 8+20+25+11*+88; hp 152; Init +5; Spd 20 ft; AC 24; touch 11; flat-footed 24; Base Atk +11/+5; Grp +22; Atk +17 melee (D8+7, Horns) or +20/+15 melee (3d6+d6+11/x3, +2 Large Flaming Greataxe), or +17/+12 (2d6+10, 20ft reach Longspear/x3) or +11/+6 ranged (2d6, Composite Long Bow); SA Powerful Charge; SQ Scent, Natural Cunning, Darkvision 60ft, Space/reach 10ft/10ft; AL N; SV Fort +16, Ref +7, Will +10; Str 25, Dex 12, Con 26, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10. Skills and Feats: Climb +9, Heal +5, Hide -3, Jump +10, Knowledge (Warfare) +3, Listen +8, Search +6, Spot +6, Swim +8**; Armor Wep proficiencies, Wep Focus: Great axe, Improved Toughness, Power Attack, Quickdraw, Imp Initiative, Great Fort, Iron Will. *+11 Hp from the feat Imp Toughness. ** Skill modifiers before armor penalties. Languages: Common, Giant. Possessions: Backpack, Signet Ring, Bedroll, 10 Common Meals, Waterskin, Whetstone, healers Kit, 4 Belt pouches, Portable Battering Ram, 50 foot rope, 1 saddle bag, locked gauntlet, Cloak, Cart, Large suit of Spiked Full Plate, +2 Flaming Great Axe, Long spear, Composite Long Bow, Amulet of Health +4, 2 cure serious wound's potions. Light Load: 532 lbs; Medium Load: 1066 lbs; Heavy Load: 1600 lbs: Lift Over Head: 1600 lbs; Lift Off Ground: 3,200 lbs; Push or Drag: 8,000 lbs. Combat: Adventurers are rarely prepared for the sight of minotaurs covered horn to hoof in armor, let alone one's that can think beyond sinple, crude tactics. As such, Heidenreich's intelligence can provide him with a surprise advatange, even if he isnt smarter than those he fights! Learning of tactics, Heidenreich takes every tactical and strategic advantage that he can, such as use of cover, and his exceptionally long reach (especially his long spear to skewer healers and casters hiding behind fighters, so when their dead he can grapple fighter's were his spiked armor will finish them off eventualy) and fleeing to choke points in buildings so that only one foe can attack him at a time. When both are prepared and fighting together, Lord Lilith and Heidenreich can seem invincible to foe's unprepared for such a duo that compliment each others strengths and weaknesses excellently, and when Lord Lilith has also brought along her pet zombie dragon, thing's can get very messy for even experianced parties. Domain: None of his own, Heidenreich lives with Lilith in her blizzard fortress in the crystalmist mountains, providing her with living company, as he has done since she took him in as a confused and abandoned pup, deciding to try and rear him after discovering his above minotaur average intelligence. In return, he has adopted many of her outlooks on life, and remains steadfastly loyal.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 01-24-06, 05:08 PM	Seems very well developed. Not much else to say.
WhylniaPendragon 01-25-06, 12:08 AM	Very interesting character concept. I like the story you've created for her. Would be interesting if her Family found out about her and came to try to reconcile. Also will be intresting if she is able to reclaim her daughter. While i understand her motivation, undergoing the ritual of Lichdom at 24 seems still very young. Why didn't she wait a while? Just curious :)
The Game 02-03-06, 08:57 AM	Appologies about the long reply, work has kept me busy, and I did want to reply, despite how far back I had to look for the thread, because I didnt want to seem rude in ignoring your question ;). Well she chose to do it at a relatively young age after a brush with death after she was targeted by an Implosion spell, but was luckily a few feet out of range. Such a gamble with fate made her realise that despite her magical capabilities for a mage her age, ultimately, she was only mortal. So it made her carefully recognisider her priorities, and after some serious thinking, she came to the conclusion that Lichdom was the most logical and most suitable fate for one seeking eternal (or at least vastly extended) life. Thanks for the reply ;)
Cymraegmorgan 02-03-06, 02:36 PM	:thumbsup: Nice.
ShadowDragon8685 02-03-06, 03:15 PM	She should invest in a shirt of gentle repose, found in (of all things,) the Book of Erotic Fantasy. As an added bonus of keeping her looking and smelling and feeling human, it will also keep her reproductive organs functioning, so she can even continue to reproduce should she wish.
Gailbraithe 02-03-06, 03:32 PM	Neutral Lich with a zombie dragon and a minotaur henchman? Smells like cheese to me. Mostly the alignment bothers me. Everything about the character screams "Evil Baroness", but she is neutral? This really seems more like a NPC/Villain, a mysterious quasi-villain, than a hero of any sort. I personally do not find this to be an interesting character. It seems very cliche and pedestrian. I also find it very strange to start a character at 15th level with a domain of their own. That is when I would retire a character, not start playing them. I can't imagine how you're going to involve this character in a party and go adventuring, it seems like she'd be too tied up with research and running her domain to get involved. Do the other characters start out as rulers of a domain as well?
ShadowDragon8685 02-03-06, 03:44 PM	Neutral Lich with a zombie dragon and a minotaur henchman? Smells like cheese to me. Mostly the alignment bothers me. Everything about the character screams "Evil Baroness", but she is neutral? This really seems more like a NPC/Villain, a mysterious quasi-villain, than a hero of any sort. I personally do not find this to be an interesting character. It seems very cliche and pedestrian. I also find it very strange to start a character at 15th level with a domain of their own. That is when I would retire a character, not start playing them. I can't imagine how you're going to involve this character in a party and go adventuring, it seems like she'd be too tied up with research and running her domain to get involved. Do the other characters start out as rulers of a domain as well? Please re-read the OP before you start labeling the OP. This character has been played for OVER A YEAR. And while yes, it is a good candidate for retirement... It's not cliche at all.
Gailbraithe 02-03-06, 06:44 PM	Please re-read the OP before you start labeling the OP. This character has been played for OVER A YEAR. And while yes, it is a good candidate for retirement... It's not cliche at all. Where did I label the OP? The OP asked if we thought the character was interesting. I said no. As for cliche...yes, I think the character is cliche. First of all, there's the minotaur. Minotaurs got played out years ago, after Dragonlance made them a PC race and every twink under the sun started playing them. At this point, I think minotaurs are a sad joke, and they stink like ripe gouda. In fact, I made an evil sorcercess a few months ago, as a joke, and piled every cliche I coudl think of on her, and guess what she has? A minotaur bodyguard. Second is the the fact that she is a lich. Lichs are played out. Lich is so obvious. It's just very hard to make a lich interesting at all. This is not the OP's fault, the lich is just an overused monster. A powerful spooky wizard who isn't a lich would be refreshing. Third is the name. Lilith Von Drak. Lillith Von Dark. Lilith Dark. It's just a little too "on the nose". Lilith is one of those names that has been way over-used in the last twenty years. It's totally cliche to name a dark, spooky female character Lilith. And then to give her And look, I don't mean to be picking on the OP. His writing is excellent, and this character is far more developed, fleshed out, and better thought out than 99% of the drek out there. In fact I would even say this a good, solid genre specific archetypal character. But the character is still cliched, and not very attention grabbing.
Louist 02-03-06, 07:05 PM	While i understand her motivation, undergoing the ritual of Lichdom at 24 seems still very young. Why didn't she wait a while? Just curious :) You can never be too young for immortality!
GaffeR 02-03-06, 07:51 PM	I gotta admit, all I really read was "Lich". Any Lich is automatically cool in my book.
Dereck 02-03-06, 08:00 PM	i got a question.... is a lich PC considered "undead"? if so could my cleric be able to use turn undead on her :P
GaffeR 02-03-06, 08:16 PM	i got a question.... is a lich PC considered "undead"? if so could my cleric be able to use turn undead on her :P Oh, he/she's undead alright. Undead Template and everything, including turning vulnerability (at a +4 bonus of course).
IceFractal 02-03-06, 08:26 PM	All undead are turnable, and that's why the prudent Lich invests in a Contingent Lifeward* to prevent being summarily destroyed or controlled. Anyway, back to the character - it sounds interesting to me. Yes, Liches with Minotaur bodyguards aren't new. However, that doesn't make them automatically cliche. I mean, if you're going by that standard, then pretty much every class and race in the PHB is cliche because many people have used it before. This is an interesting take on it, especially the science angle. * Spell Compendium
ChaoticGood 02-04-06, 12:40 AM	Gailbraithe, Your points about evil wizards having minotaur bodyguards and becoming liches are understood, and I understand that you aren't necessarily using the word "cliche" as an insult. Still, the fact that a character, NPC or not, follows an archetype doesn't mean that character can't be interesting in his or her own right. The mad genius who twists the laws of life and death in the further pursuit of science may be an archetype dating back to Mary Shelley (or even before), but that doesn't mean that you don't get the creeps when you learn the nature of The Freak in Hellboy. Also, there is one mighty difference between the average minotaur-guarded lich NPC and this character: this character did not begin as this powerful archetype. As noted before, if you re-read the post you will find that this player worked on the character, playing it out, planning ahead, and earning this character's rights to everything she has achieved. And quite frankly, that's remarkable, especially for someone who, if I am reading the post correctly, has only been playing for a year. Heck, I've been playing for a decade now, at least, and I've never played a character this well. Good job, OP.
The Game 02-04-06, 10:44 PM	Thank you to everyone that posted, and a second thanks for the kind words ;) First of all, there's the minotaur. Minotaurs got played out years ago, after Dragonlance made them a PC race and every twink under the sun started playing them. At this point, I think minotaurs are a sad joke, and they stink like ripe gouda. In fact, I made an evil sorcercess a few months ago, as a joke, and piled every cliche I coudl think of on her, and guess what she has? A minotaur bodyguard. Originally, I was going to give her a Neutral cleric of no deity, that was going to be her cult leut., for I had the idea of her forming her own shadowy society to protect her when she came to blows with the Circle of 8 (Greyhawk), but, after notcing in game how a fighter or other tank was not always available to stick near the wizard whenever our party got surrounded, I figured that a big, scary, tough tank was what she needed to free up the other party members, thus Heidenreich was born :). He does his job pretty good. Dont hurt me, but I have never played/read anything from Dragonlance (At least not to my knowledge), and wasnt aware of the cliche of a minotaur body guard ;). I was also trying to avoid the other popular lich bodyguard choice of a vampire, because Id much rather play a scheming vamp that has to work with the party to acheive her own goals. I think that would be much more fun ;), plus its the best way to include an evil character in a good group: put them in a situation were they have to work together to the end. Its just finding a reason thats the hard part heh. Second is the the fact that she is a lich. Lichs are played out. Lich is so obvious. It's just very hard to make a lich interesting at all. This is not the OP's fault, the lich is just an overused monster. A powerful spooky wizard who isn't a lich would be refreshing. Well, Lich's have always been a great villain's I agree, but a Lich that wasnt evil to me, was refreshing. Boarderlining the grey area's between good and sinister seemed a much more promising ideal to me than the standard black and white, Evil or Good. Third is the name. Lilith Von Drak. Lillith Von Dark. Lilith Dark. It's just a little too "on the nose". Lilith is one of those names that has been way over-used in the last twenty years. It's totally cliche to name a dark, spooky female character Lilith. And then to give her I know what you mean :), Lilith seemed a sinister sounding name, and I figured its a probable name that her parents (being evil themselves) would have given her. The Von Drak part, came when I was originally thinking about Vampirism instead of Lichdom, and was just me little humor calling her Drak (Similiar to Drac - ula). I didnt even notice the daRk part :) Hopefully that cleared up the points you brought up about the cliche ;) Im glad that it was actually formulated on decent reasons, other than just mindless "omgwtfnerf!' that can be received from other boards :( Thanks again everyone :) it's satisfying to see fun work produce liked results :D.
Gailbraithe 02-05-06, 04:56 AM	Originally, I was going to give her a Neutral cleric of no deity, that was going to be her cult leut., for I had the idea of her forming her own shadowy society to protect her when she came to blows with the Circle of 8 (Greyhawk)... Now that is a much cooler idea. You should go back to that. Well, Lich's have always been a great villain's I agree, but a Lich that wasnt evil to me, was refreshing. Boarderlining the grey area's between good and sinister seemed a much more promising ideal to me than the standard black and white, Evil or Good. Ah. See, when the Arch-Lich (a NG bard Lich) first appear in 2E maybe eight years ago, I realized that the Lich had gotten really stale, and they were scraping the bottom of the barrel for new ideas. I'm glad you took my comments well.