Post/Author/DateTime	Post
metapellin 07-26-06, 11:33 AM	Ok.. so we been playin one way for a while now.. than my DM does this to me. let me know if he is right to do so I was on the ground next to an opponent, it was my turn. I needed to escape and take a heal potion I tumbled away ( passed my tumble check) and I wanted to drink my potion. But he tells me.. you can tumble and pull out your potion Next round.. I drink my potion and can move but not attack. So. now it takes me 2 rounds to drink my potion? we used to play.. tumble, drink potion. Next round can attack. he says.. I been reading more and I see that retrieving a potion is a standard action along with tumbling... Anyone got any input on this??
Rondom 07-26-06, 11:53 AM	I believe that retrieving a potion is a move action, and drinking it is a standard action. If you have BAB +1 your DM might allow you to draw it as part of a move action (but not everyone allows this). There's an item in FRCS called a potion bracer that can hold (IIRC) 3 potions, and allows you to 'draw' it as a free action. Perhaps see if you can get hold of one of those.
R2-DS 07-26-06, 12:23 PM	I believe that retrieving a potion is a move action, and drinking it is a standard action. If you have BAB +1 your DM might allow you to draw it as part of a move action (but not everyone allows this). There's an item in FRCS called a potion bracer that can hold (IIRC) 3 potions, and allows you to 'draw' it as a free action. Perhaps see if you can get hold of one of those. Its called a "Potion Belt" (1 Gold Piece) and holds 6 potions. Drawing from it is a free action once per round. There is master work version (60 Gold Pieces) that functions the same way but holds 10 potions.
Ashok_Lal 07-26-06, 11:54 PM	A potion belt allows you to get a potion as a free action if you have quick draw. taking a potion is a full round action so . your DM is right. Sorry
R2-DS 07-26-06, 11:59 PM	A potion belt allows you to get a potion as a free action if you have quick draw. taking a potion is a full round action so . your DM is right. Sorry Please cite your reference for this post. The FR campaign clearly states on page 96 that "retrieving a potion from a potion belt is a free action once per round".
Bob Loblaw 07-27-06, 01:12 AM	Drinking a potion is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Drawing a potion is a move action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Both of these are listed in the PHB under the section on Actions. Note that drinking a potion can potentially draw two attacks of opportunity against you, so you do want to tumble away. The way I run it is that I allow the potion to be drawn and drank as a normal, but it does not provoke an attack of opportunity. My players and I have found this to work fine for us.
Rhomphaia 07-27-06, 05:35 AM	Ok.. so we been playin one way for a while now.. than my DM does this to me. let me know if he is right to do so I was on the ground next to an opponent, it was my turn. I needed to escape and take a heal potion I tumbled away ( passed my tumble check) and I wanted to drink my potion. But he tells me.. you can tumble and pull out your potion Next round.. I drink my potion and can move but not attack. So. now it takes me 2 rounds to drink my potion? we used to play.. tumble, drink potion. Next round can attack. he says.. I been reading more and I see that retrieving a potion is a standard action along with tumbling... Anyone got any input on this?? Rules-wise, your DM was right. However, to spring this on you in the middle of play was not. I assume he made the change due to him realizing an error. He should have let everyone know of this change of ruling before the situation came up. Thankfully, this resulted in little more than a lost action (based on the info given) but could have been much worse. For that reason, and to prevent on the fly nerfing judgements, encourage your DM to notify the group of any rulings changes he makes before each session begins.
Sphyre 07-27-06, 07:25 AM	I was on the ground next to an opponent, it was my turn. I needed to escape and take a heal potion I tumbled away ( passed my tumble check) and I wanted to drink my potion. But he tells me.. you can tumble and pull out your potion Next round.. I drink my potion and can move but not attack. So. now it takes me 2 rounds to drink my potion? Welcome to the drawbacks of potions in combat. Tumble away - Move action pull out potion - move action - provokes AoO drink potion - standard action - provokes AoO stand up - move action - provokes AoO (free action if you succeed DC 35 tumble check) There are many items that will help you remove parts of that - AoOs, or reduce time, as others have suggested in the thread - but with no special magic items or special training, it takes a while to get away from combat to drink a potion. If you're a psion or psy warrior, you can use hustle to get an additional move action.
ItaraKoturo 07-27-06, 05:29 PM	stand up - move action - provokes AoO (free action if you succeed DC 35 tumble check) Why would he need to stand up? You don't end up prone after tumbling out of the way.
SodaGuy 07-27-06, 05:41 PM	I was on the ground next to an opponent =/
ItaraKoturo 07-27-06, 05:54 PM	=/ Ah-ha! Thanks!
Sphyre 07-28-06, 04:09 AM	Why would he need to stand up? You don't end up prone after tumbling out of the way. Well... I suppose you could rule it that way too. He started prone - so I assumed he would have stayed as such. If you don't understand where I came from when I said that: The core rules don't say much in terms of being prone other than the penalties and bonuses to AC - it doesn't even say that your movement is impaired if you're prone, or that you can't take the run action while prone, but logic seems to dictate that a bipedal creature would go faster on two feet, than on all 4 limbs - prone. Tumble DC: 15 Task: Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks of opportunity normally. Check separately for each opponent you move past, in the order in which you pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie). Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC. Standing up is a move action; falling prone is a free action. Tumbling doesn't say that you can end up either standing or prone when you're finished, so it's best to assume that you're in the same state you were in when you started the tumble. Standing if you were standing, and prone if you were prone. Although, if you wanted to start standing and then fall prone, after your tumble, i don't see why you couldn't. It seems the more and more I get to know the rules, the more and more I see how completely incomplete they are. The DM really is required to arbitrate what is reasonable - i think it's perfectly reasonable to end up standing up after a tumble, but the rules don't really cover this portion.
ItaraKoturo 07-28-06, 05:53 AM	Well... I suppose you could rule it that way too. He started prone - so I assumed he would have stayed as such. No, I had simply missed that he started prone. It makes sense now, and I'll explain better in a minute what the rules say about moving while prone. The core rules don't say much in terms of being prone other than the penalties and bonuses to AC - it doesn't even say that your movement is impaired if you're prone, or that you can't take the run action while prone, but logic seems to dictate that a bipedal creature would go faster on two feet, than on all 4 limbs - prone. No, prone does have an impact on movement. From the SRD: Crawling You can crawl 5 feet as a move action. Crawling incurs attacks of opportunity from any attackers who threaten you at any point of your crawl. If you're prone, you don't have terribly many options. Tumbling up from prone isn't covered in the PHB. I've seen references to it being possible to tumble up from prone (with a very high DC), avoiding attacks of opportunity, but I'm not sure where those rules are actually written. Here is something to note though: While prone, you cannot tumble out of a threatened area to avoid attacks of opportunity. This is because tumbling halves your movement speed. In a single move action you can only move 5 feet while prone, which halves to 0 feet. Even with two move actions I believe this is still impossible, as each move action is taken separately (to the best of my knowledge). It seems the more and more I get to know the rules, the more and more I see how completely incomplete they are. Nah, you just need to know where to look for the ruling.
Merestil Haye 07-28-06, 07:28 AM	The rules do tell you what you need to know. Tumble is something you do "as part of normal movement." Normal movement means a movement mode for which the creature has a listed speed. You can gain a movement mode magically (eg the Fly spell grants the subject a Fly speed). Therefore you may tumble while prone if (and only if) your character has a "Crawl" speed in his stat block. Which he does not. As for standing by Tumble : it's a use of the Tumble skill given in Complete Adventurer. The DC is 35, and it does provoke AoOs. Previous appearances of the idea in 3.0 did state that AoOs were not provoked, but the latest version states it does.
Sphyre 07-29-06, 03:24 AM	No, I had simply missed that he started prone. It makes sense now, and I'll explain better in a minute what the rules say about moving while prone. No, prone does have an impact on movement. From the SRD: Ah, that's what I thought, but at the same time, I hadn't read rules on that in years - it's hidden well :P I guess I just searched for the wrong word :( While prone, you cannot tumble out of a threatened area to avoid attacks of opportunity. This is because tumbling halves your movement speed. In a single move action you can only move 5 feet while prone, which halves to 0 feet. Even with two move actions I believe this is still impossible, as each move action is taken separately (to the best of my knowledge). actually, you can. Accelerated Tumbling: You try to tumble past or through enemies more quickly than normal. By accepting a –10 penalty on your Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half your speed. I would personally houserule that you could take 2 consectutive move actions to tumble out of the way 5 feet (for the DC 15 one, not DC 25). I mean you're spending 6 freaking seconds to move 5 feet and avoid opening yourself up to a free attack - and even then, he can just 5ft adjust to you. I mean. it's not like you move 5 feet. and then say hm i'm going to stay right here for a moment, and then move again - you do it all without pause or hesitation. Not to mention half of 5 feet is 2.5 feet, which is a distance, even if it's in the same abstraction of reality (as if you have to be in any one 5 foot square and if you only move 2 feet per 6 seconds, you can't move at all?) If you're prone, you don't have terribly many options. Tumbling up from prone isn't covered in the PHB. I've seen references to it being possible to tumble up from prone (with a very high DC), avoiding attacks of opportunity, but I'm not sure where those rules are actually written. Here is something to note though: It originally comes from the Epic level handbook, where a DC 35 tumble check allows you to stand as a free action. This was included in the 3.5 SRD as follows: Free Stand: The character can stand up from prone as a free action (instead of as a move-equivalent action). There was much debate about whether it removed the AoO it provoked or not, so when they re-released the information in a 3.5 book (Complete adventurer) they specificed that it still provokes an attack of opportunity. Nah, you just need to know where to look for the ruling. One oversight does not invalidate years of experience. We're all human and are prone to error. Thanks for pointing out my oversight, that was kind of bothering me that I didn't find that particular rule. I wondered if 3.5 had done away with it.