Is this fair? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Is this fair? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 12:18 AM Ok, I'll give a little background before I bring the big problems up...

Our characters were hunting a god, but than found out that a temple of pelor had a quiver of olidamara (Or w/e). We decided to "liberate" other loot in the temple.

Well, we plan the robbery for 2 weeks. Planning it down to every last detail. Our DM than says when we transport in, we really transport into the castle. Where the rest of the group is surrounded by dragons and crap with an important NPC saying "Surrender or Die." I was teleported into the dungeon with a thri-kreen psion across the room saying the same thing (I was kind of the leader, so I was getting punished the worst, I get that.

The Thri-Kreen says put your weapon down and surrender, or i'll kill you. Cool, I draw my weapon (Something you have to do to be able to set it down...) and the person he is letting play the Thri-Kreen jumps up and says "I SHOOT HIS BOW!!!"

He attacks the bow with an energy ray. The DM gives it an AC of 27, ok cool. Well he hit it, and did 35 points of damage. The DM rules that my +5 bow is destroyed in one hit...

1) I'm not quite sure on how weapon destruction actually works.... But is that all it really takes to destroy a +5 bow? If it is, sunder characters are way overpowered.....

2) Is it ok of me to think that the DM is really lame for doing this? He kinda cut off what the players wanted to do, and at the same time he put a geas on 3/4 of the party forcing us to go after his BBEG.... Is that railroading or what?

What would you guys do?
Exposed_Wires
11-21-07, 12:40 AM Very very lame. Is this DM a young guy? Cause he should have been laid back enough to let you guys go through with at least some of what you were planning. I mean, he DID have enough warning to prepare something.

Also, geas'ing you guys to go after the guy he prepared a ton of material on is such hideous railroading that taking him down wont even be satisfying. It'll be mandatory.

"ok. there. we killed the BBEG. NOW we can go do something else." That is marvelous storytelling.

Not that i don't relate. You people probably went WAY off course of what he had planned and that can be real frustrating. Still, i don't think you need to do anything drastic. Just voice your displeasure and hope he doesn't pull it again.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 12:42 AM Very very lame. Is this DM a young guy? Cause he should have been laid back enough to let you guys go through with at least some of what you were planning. I mean, he DID have enough warning to prepare something.

Also, geas'ing you guys to go after the guy he prepared a ton of material on is such hideous railroading that taking him down wont even be satisfying. It'll be mandatory.

"ok. there. we killed the BBEG. NOW we can go do something else." That is marvelous storytelling.

Not that i don't relate. You people probably went WAY off course of what he had planned and that can be real frustrating. Still, i don't think you need to do anything drastic. Just voice your displeasure and hope he doesn't pull it again.

The DM is about 30. He has been playing games for about 6 years (I think).

The big reason we did this was that we were tired of the main quest. We have been on it for like 6 months and we're like 1/3 of the way done... We just decided that we needed a break, and this would be fun.
calronmoonflower
11-21-07, 01:26 AM 1). A ranged sunder requires a special feat.

2). The bow should receive a save, if the spell allows such.

3). The bow's hardness would have been increased by 10 by the enhancement bonus.

4). The bow's hit points would have been increased by 50 from the enhancement bonus.

From the Dungeon Master's Guide errata.

Hardness and Hit Points
Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 222
Problem: The first paragraph is not consistent with similar
information for shields on page 217.
Solution: Delete the first sentence after the boldface header.
Change the next sentence to read as follows:
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or
shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 01:28 AM 1). A ranged sunder requires a special feat.

2). The bow should receive a save, if the spell allows such.

3). The bow's hardness would have been increased by 10 by the enhancement bonus.

4). The bow's hit points would have been increased by 50 from the enhancement bonus.

From the Dungeon Master's Guide errata.

Thanks, I'll show this to my dm. I'll see if I can get my bow back :D
Axiomatic_vampire
11-21-07, 03:49 AM Wait, the DM brought in a special guest player to run the Thri-keen who you for-no-good-reason teleported directly to, and the guy didn't even know basic combat rules?

No. No that's not fair.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 04:10 AM It wasn't a special guest palyer, it was the cleric of pelor who was left out of robbing the temple of pelor..... Give you one guess why...

The player who got the thri-kreen was also a meta-gamer, attempty munchkin (Doesn't understand how), and hates the fact that I left him out of the robbery...
Exposed_Wires
11-21-07, 04:43 AM Rules isn't really something worth bringing up with him. I'm sure he knows them. He just wanted to **** up your idea and get you back on track. By all means, try to get that bow back, but know that was only to please the cleric who you left out. See if you cant get compensated somehow.

He seems frustrated. I hope you guys haven't been riding him by making him run ridiculous missions other than this assault on pelor.

Forgive whatever rules seem to have been glossed over and do what he wants. As long as he knows that you guys don't enjoy his clearly slow paced storyline, you've done all that you can. I'm sure somebody here will tell you to leave and find another game, but its not that big a deal. He's just asserting his power. You don't enjoy it and let him know. He should get better.
Axiomatic_vampire
11-21-07, 07:04 AM It wasn't a special guest palyer, it was the cleric of pelor who was left out of robbing the temple of pelor..... Give you one guess why...

The player who got the thri-kreen was also a meta-gamer, attempty munchkin (Doesn't understand how), and hates the fact that I left him out of the robbery...

Just bleh.
Sounds like there's so much Rule0 flying around that there's no point in talking rules at all.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 07:40 AM Rules isn't really something worth bringing up with him. I'm sure he knows them. He just wanted to **** up your idea and get you back on track. By all means, try to get that bow back, but know that was only to please the cleric who you left out. See if you cant get compensated somehow.

He seems frustrated. I hope you guys haven't been riding him by making him run ridiculous missions other than this assault on pelor.

Forgive whatever rules seem to have been glossed over and do what he wants. As long as he knows that you guys don't enjoy his clearly slow paced storyline, you've done all that you can. I'm sure somebody here will tell you to leave and find another game, but its not that big a deal. He's just asserting his power. You don't enjoy it and let him know. He should get better.

I've actually been pushing the quest in his game, keeping everyone on track for the most part. This is the only time we've ever taken a sidetrack...

I'm debating if I want to try to bring his campaign down because of this :P He does this kind of stuff once in awhile, and it always seem to hit me. I know I'm looking at this the wrong way, but driving a tpk kinda sounds fun right now :P
Exposed_Wires
11-21-07, 04:39 PM So, you guys are all now afflicted with a railroading disease and he did just destroy one of the only reasons you had not to reroll. Hell, go nuts.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 04:42 PM So, you guys are all now afflicted with a railroading disease and he did just destroy one of the only reasons you had not to reroll. Hell, go nuts.

Ok, but if they complain I'm totally blaming you :P

I'm just debating on how to do this. Most of the other players are relatively new to the game. Do you think I could say the whole "Our robbery didn't work, lets go at a dragon for loot" lines?

I am under a geas, so this will be tricky. How many ways are there to get rid of a geas?
Khazzan
11-21-07, 05:03 PM I am under a geas, so this will be tricky. How many ways are there to get rid of a geas?

If the geas is a Geas/Quest spell (or effect) then a Remove Curse spell ends it only if its caster level is at least two higher than the caster level of the person (or item) that inflicted the Geas on you. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but Limited Wish, Miracle, and Wish do.

If it's a Lesser Geas, then all of the things listed above will break it, as well as Break enchantment. (I think that's right.... )

And calronmoonflower is right on with the points he raised about the attack made on your bow. Be sure to bring those points up in a nice, polite way ;)
Exposed_Wires
11-21-07, 05:21 PM You can let the geas kill you. 3d6 every day you don't follow your quest. Go on a mission to get a new good bow and then croak doing it. You'll have to play it off like you don't think you can complete the geas without a new wep and that the damage is worth it.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 05:24 PM I thought about letting the geas kill me. I don't want that though, I like the character. That and I really want to get out of the geas and retaliate on the kingdom.

I was thinking about following the geas all the way up to the next temple we're going to (Destroying BBEG god's temples to weaken him). When we get there I'll go "scout" until I find a nice place to prayer for him. Maybe he'll take out my geas, or w/e :P
Exposed_Wires
11-21-07, 05:31 PM If you think that will work, then by all means. I doubt, though, that the DM will be that merciful. Worth a shot. You can always let the geas kill you later. No rush.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 05:33 PM Lol yeah :P

Or maybe, I could start to ritually sacrafice things to this god :D That will be fun.

I'll take damage, because they added a bunch of stuff to the geas... But it will so be worth it :P
Fatalis_902
11-21-07, 05:51 PM Removing a geas is a difficult proposition to say the least. Wish/Miracle/Limited Wish would work, but those are costly and high level. Remove Curse can work, as can Break Enchantment, but there are a few factors involved. What level of Geas is it? Lesser, regular, or supreme? The lesser version can be ended by any spell mentioned above. The regular version won't be affected by break enchantment, and remove curse will only work if its CL is 2+ CLs higher than the Geas's. If none of these work, you know that you have a supreme Geas, which is any geas that has been placed on a character by an NPC that the DM is attempting to use to railroad said PC into doing something. These cannot be removed exept by completion of the DM's objective, stated or otherwise, or by DM fiat, which is not likely to occur.

Actually, I could write up supreme geas as a new spell. Maybe:

Supreme Geas
Level: DM 0
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 Thought
Range: Infinite
Target: Any number of characters currently being played, living or dead
Duration: Permanent or until discharged (see text) (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None

This spell functions like Geas/Quest, except as noted here.

This spell is used by DMs to railroad characters into doing what they want them to do, rather than what the characters want to do. The creature takes the full penalties of both a Lesser Geas and a Geas/Quest spell every time they do not directly try to advance the DM's carefully written story. These effects do not end until the DM says so, and can occur at any time, for any reason.

No form of character magic can end a Supreme Geas, and not even the gods themselves have the power to do so, for the DM reigns supreme in his fantasy world. There are only four sure-fire ways to end a Supreme Geas. First, the afflicted characters can complete the quest the DM has written for them, to the satisfaction of the DM. The spell will not end until the DM is satisfied that the PCs have fulfilled his story. Second, the players can use a hammergun on the DM, forcing him to see the error of his ways through physical violence. This is not recommended, as it can cause loss of friends and criminal suits to be filed against the firer(s) of the gun. The third option is for the players to decide that the campaign is over, and for someone else to DM a new campaign. The DM who used the Supreme Geas is not to be allowed to DM until he admits his error and in no way blames the players for the campaign-gone-awry. Fourth, the Supreme Geas can simply be removed through DM fiat, such as if he gets bored with the current quest, and someone reminds him of the Supreme Geas. This is rare, however, and should not be relied upon. A lesser-known fourth option for dealing with a Supreme Geas exists, and it is talking to the DM who used the Supreme Geas. Unfortunately, this will not often work, as the DM who used it is likely to be convinced of his own divine right to dictate the actions of all in his made-up world, and will refuse to admit his error, instead blaming the players for not following his story.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 05:52 PM Removing a geas is a difficult proposition to say the least. Wish/Miracle/Limited Wish would work, but those are costly and high level. Remove Curse can work, as can Break Enchantment, but there are a few factors involved. What level of Geas is it? Lesser, reular, or supreme? The lesser version can be ended by any spell mentioned above. The rgular version won't be affected by break enchantment, and remove curse will only work if its CL is 2+ CLs higher than the Geas's. If none of these work, you know that you have a supreme Geas, which is any geas that has been placed on a character by an NPC that the DM is attempting to use to railroad said PC into doing something. These cannot be removed exept by completion of the DM's objective, stated or otherwise, or by DM fiat, which is not likely to occur.

I believe it's a regulare geas... I'm not 100% sure though...
ff6shadow
11-21-07, 06:10 PM Another idea is to join the BBEG he wants you to fight in exchange for the geas being taken off of you. The DM may not like it, but it certainly sounds reasonable to me. I turn on the bastards who or forcing me into slavery to their cause.
metalmayhem80110
11-21-07, 06:16 PM Another idea is to join the BBEG he wants you to fight in exchange for the geas being taken off of you. The DM may not like it, but it certainly sounds reasonable to me. I turn on the bastards who or forcing me into slavery to their cause.

Hehe, that is what I was thinking.

I even have a better idea! One of my old characters got turned evil by a deck of many things. Well he went NPC to say the least... Well we're about to meet him, and was a cleric. I think I might be joining the old me :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 12:18 AM	Ok, I'll give a little background before I bring the big problems up... Our characters were hunting a god, but than found out that a temple of pelor had a quiver of olidamara (Or w/e). We decided to "liberate" other loot in the temple. Well, we plan the robbery for 2 weeks. Planning it down to every last detail. Our DM than says when we transport in, we really transport into the castle. Where the rest of the group is surrounded by dragons and crap with an important NPC saying "Surrender or Die." I was teleported into the dungeon with a thri-kreen psion across the room saying the same thing (I was kind of the leader, so I was getting punished the worst, I get that. The Thri-Kreen says put your weapon down and surrender, or i'll kill you. Cool, I draw my weapon (Something you have to do to be able to set it down...) and the person he is letting play the Thri-Kreen jumps up and says "I SHOOT HIS BOW!!!" He attacks the bow with an energy ray. The DM gives it an AC of 27, ok cool. Well he hit it, and did 35 points of damage. The DM rules that my +5 bow is destroyed in one hit... 1) I'm not quite sure on how weapon destruction actually works.... But is that all it really takes to destroy a +5 bow? If it is, sunder characters are way overpowered..... 2) Is it ok of me to think that the DM is really lame for doing this? He kinda cut off what the players wanted to do, and at the same time he put a geas on 3/4 of the party forcing us to go after his BBEG.... Is that railroading or what? What would you guys do?
Exposed_Wires 11-21-07, 12:40 AM	Very very lame. Is this DM a young guy? Cause he should have been laid back enough to let you guys go through with at least some of what you were planning. I mean, he DID have enough warning to prepare something. Also, geas'ing you guys to go after the guy he prepared a ton of material on is such hideous railroading that taking him down wont even be satisfying. It'll be mandatory. "ok. there. we killed the BBEG. NOW we can go do something else." That is marvelous storytelling. Not that i don't relate. You people probably went WAY off course of what he had planned and that can be real frustrating. Still, i don't think you need to do anything drastic. Just voice your displeasure and hope he doesn't pull it again.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 12:42 AM	Very very lame. Is this DM a young guy? Cause he should have been laid back enough to let you guys go through with at least some of what you were planning. I mean, he DID have enough warning to prepare something. Also, geas'ing you guys to go after the guy he prepared a ton of material on is such hideous railroading that taking him down wont even be satisfying. It'll be mandatory. "ok. there. we killed the BBEG. NOW we can go do something else." That is marvelous storytelling. Not that i don't relate. You people probably went WAY off course of what he had planned and that can be real frustrating. Still, i don't think you need to do anything drastic. Just voice your displeasure and hope he doesn't pull it again. The DM is about 30. He has been playing games for about 6 years (I think). The big reason we did this was that we were tired of the main quest. We have been on it for like 6 months and we're like 1/3 of the way done... We just decided that we needed a break, and this would be fun.
calronmoonflower 11-21-07, 01:26 AM	1). A ranged sunder requires a special feat. 2). The bow should receive a save, if the spell allows such. 3). The bow's hardness would have been increased by 10 by the enhancement bonus. 4). The bow's hit points would have been increased by 50 from the enhancement bonus. From the Dungeon Master's Guide errata. Hardness and Hit Points Dungeon Master’s Guide, page 222 Problem: The first paragraph is not consistent with similar information for shields on page 217. Solution: Delete the first sentence after the boldface header. Change the next sentence to read as follows: Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to a weapon’s or shield’s hardness and +10 to its hit points.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 01:28 AM	1). A ranged sunder requires a special feat. 2). The bow should receive a save, if the spell allows such. 3). The bow's hardness would have been increased by 10 by the enhancement bonus. 4). The bow's hit points would have been increased by 50 from the enhancement bonus. From the Dungeon Master's Guide errata. Thanks, I'll show this to my dm. I'll see if I can get my bow back :D
Axiomatic_vampire 11-21-07, 03:49 AM	Wait, the DM brought in a special guest player to run the Thri-keen who you for-no-good-reason teleported directly to, and the guy didn't even know basic combat rules? No. No that's not fair.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 04:10 AM	It wasn't a special guest palyer, it was the cleric of pelor who was left out of robbing the temple of pelor..... Give you one guess why... The player who got the thri-kreen was also a meta-gamer, attempty munchkin (Doesn't understand how), and hates the fact that I left him out of the robbery...
Exposed_Wires 11-21-07, 04:43 AM	Rules isn't really something worth bringing up with him. I'm sure he knows them. He just wanted to **** up your idea and get you back on track. By all means, try to get that bow back, but know that was only to please the cleric who you left out. See if you cant get compensated somehow. He seems frustrated. I hope you guys haven't been riding him by making him run ridiculous missions other than this assault on pelor. Forgive whatever rules seem to have been glossed over and do what he wants. As long as he knows that you guys don't enjoy his clearly slow paced storyline, you've done all that you can. I'm sure somebody here will tell you to leave and find another game, but its not that big a deal. He's just asserting his power. You don't enjoy it and let him know. He should get better.
Axiomatic_vampire 11-21-07, 07:04 AM	It wasn't a special guest palyer, it was the cleric of pelor who was left out of robbing the temple of pelor..... Give you one guess why... The player who got the thri-kreen was also a meta-gamer, attempty munchkin (Doesn't understand how), and hates the fact that I left him out of the robbery... Just bleh. Sounds like there's so much Rule0 flying around that there's no point in talking rules at all.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 07:40 AM	Rules isn't really something worth bringing up with him. I'm sure he knows them. He just wanted to **** up your idea and get you back on track. By all means, try to get that bow back, but know that was only to please the cleric who you left out. See if you cant get compensated somehow. He seems frustrated. I hope you guys haven't been riding him by making him run ridiculous missions other than this assault on pelor. Forgive whatever rules seem to have been glossed over and do what he wants. As long as he knows that you guys don't enjoy his clearly slow paced storyline, you've done all that you can. I'm sure somebody here will tell you to leave and find another game, but its not that big a deal. He's just asserting his power. You don't enjoy it and let him know. He should get better. I've actually been pushing the quest in his game, keeping everyone on track for the most part. This is the only time we've ever taken a sidetrack... I'm debating if I want to try to bring his campaign down because of this :P He does this kind of stuff once in awhile, and it always seem to hit me. I know I'm looking at this the wrong way, but driving a tpk kinda sounds fun right now :P
Exposed_Wires 11-21-07, 04:39 PM	So, you guys are all now afflicted with a railroading disease and he did just destroy one of the only reasons you had not to reroll. Hell, go nuts.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 04:42 PM	So, you guys are all now afflicted with a railroading disease and he did just destroy one of the only reasons you had not to reroll. Hell, go nuts. Ok, but if they complain I'm totally blaming you :P I'm just debating on how to do this. Most of the other players are relatively new to the game. Do you think I could say the whole "Our robbery didn't work, lets go at a dragon for loot" lines? I am under a geas, so this will be tricky. How many ways are there to get rid of a geas?
Khazzan 11-21-07, 05:03 PM	I am under a geas, so this will be tricky. How many ways are there to get rid of a geas? If the geas is a Geas/Quest spell (or effect) then a Remove Curse spell ends it only if its caster level is at least two higher than the caster level of the person (or item) that inflicted the Geas on you. Break enchantment does not end a geas/quest, but Limited Wish, Miracle, and Wish do. If it's a Lesser Geas, then all of the things listed above will break it, as well as Break enchantment. (I think that's right.... ) And calronmoonflower is right on with the points he raised about the attack made on your bow. Be sure to bring those points up in a nice, polite way ;)
Exposed_Wires 11-21-07, 05:21 PM	You can let the geas kill you. 3d6 every day you don't follow your quest. Go on a mission to get a new good bow and then croak doing it. You'll have to play it off like you don't think you can complete the geas without a new wep and that the damage is worth it.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 05:24 PM	I thought about letting the geas kill me. I don't want that though, I like the character. That and I really want to get out of the geas and retaliate on the kingdom. I was thinking about following the geas all the way up to the next temple we're going to (Destroying BBEG god's temples to weaken him). When we get there I'll go "scout" until I find a nice place to prayer for him. Maybe he'll take out my geas, or w/e :P
Exposed_Wires 11-21-07, 05:31 PM	If you think that will work, then by all means. I doubt, though, that the DM will be that merciful. Worth a shot. You can always let the geas kill you later. No rush.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 05:33 PM	Lol yeah :P Or maybe, I could start to ritually sacrafice things to this god :D That will be fun. I'll take damage, because they added a bunch of stuff to the geas... But it will so be worth it :P
Fatalis_902 11-21-07, 05:51 PM	Removing a geas is a difficult proposition to say the least. Wish/Miracle/Limited Wish would work, but those are costly and high level. Remove Curse can work, as can Break Enchantment, but there are a few factors involved. What level of Geas is it? Lesser, regular, or supreme? The lesser version can be ended by any spell mentioned above. The regular version won't be affected by break enchantment, and remove curse will only work if its CL is 2+ CLs higher than the Geas's. If none of these work, you know that you have a supreme Geas, which is any geas that has been placed on a character by an NPC that the DM is attempting to use to railroad said PC into doing something. These cannot be removed exept by completion of the DM's objective, stated or otherwise, or by DM fiat, which is not likely to occur. Actually, I could write up supreme geas as a new spell. Maybe: Supreme Geas Level: DM 0 Components: V Casting Time: 1 Thought Range: Infinite Target: Any number of characters currently being played, living or dead Duration: Permanent or until discharged (see text) (D) Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: None This spell functions like Geas/Quest, except as noted here. This spell is used by DMs to railroad characters into doing what they want them to do, rather than what the characters want to do. The creature takes the full penalties of both a Lesser Geas and a Geas/Quest spell every time they do not directly try to advance the DM's carefully written story. These effects do not end until the DM says so, and can occur at any time, for any reason. No form of character magic can end a Supreme Geas, and not even the gods themselves have the power to do so, for the DM reigns supreme in his fantasy world. There are only four sure-fire ways to end a Supreme Geas. First, the afflicted characters can complete the quest the DM has written for them, to the satisfaction of the DM. The spell will not end until the DM is satisfied that the PCs have fulfilled his story. Second, the players can use a hammergun on the DM, forcing him to see the error of his ways through physical violence. This is not recommended, as it can cause loss of friends and criminal suits to be filed against the firer(s) of the gun. The third option is for the players to decide that the campaign is over, and for someone else to DM a new campaign. The DM who used the Supreme Geas is not to be allowed to DM until he admits his error and in no way blames the players for the campaign-gone-awry. Fourth, the Supreme Geas can simply be removed through DM fiat, such as if he gets bored with the current quest, and someone reminds him of the Supreme Geas. This is rare, however, and should not be relied upon. A lesser-known fourth option for dealing with a Supreme Geas exists, and it is talking to the DM who used the Supreme Geas. Unfortunately, this will not often work, as the DM who used it is likely to be convinced of his own divine right to dictate the actions of all in his made-up world, and will refuse to admit his error, instead blaming the players for not following his story.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 05:52 PM	Removing a geas is a difficult proposition to say the least. Wish/Miracle/Limited Wish would work, but those are costly and high level. Remove Curse can work, as can Break Enchantment, but there are a few factors involved. What level of Geas is it? Lesser, reular, or supreme? The lesser version can be ended by any spell mentioned above. The rgular version won't be affected by break enchantment, and remove curse will only work if its CL is 2+ CLs higher than the Geas's. If none of these work, you know that you have a supreme Geas, which is any geas that has been placed on a character by an NPC that the DM is attempting to use to railroad said PC into doing something. These cannot be removed exept by completion of the DM's objective, stated or otherwise, or by DM fiat, which is not likely to occur. I believe it's a regulare geas... I'm not 100% sure though...
ff6shadow 11-21-07, 06:10 PM	Another idea is to join the BBEG he wants you to fight in exchange for the geas being taken off of you. The DM may not like it, but it certainly sounds reasonable to me. I turn on the bastards who or forcing me into slavery to their cause.
metalmayhem80110 11-21-07, 06:16 PM	Another idea is to join the BBEG he wants you to fight in exchange for the geas being taken off of you. The DM may not like it, but it certainly sounds reasonable to me. I turn on the bastards who or forcing me into slavery to their cause. Hehe, that is what I was thinking. I even have a better idea! One of my old characters got turned evil by a deck of many things. Well he went NPC to say the least... Well we're about to meet him, and was a cleric. I think I might be joining the old me :P