Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ZypherX 11-04-06, 06:06 PM	OK, so I'm playing as a Wood Elf Barbarian 7, STR20, DEX16, CON12, INT10, WIS12, CHR8. After I clobber one of the DMs enemies in the space of two rounds, he acts very confused as to how I'm doing so much damage. This gets into a discussion as to how overpowered my character is. They ask me what my max damage with one attack is, and I figure it out to be 49. Mind you, this is with Rage, full Power Attack w/ Leap Attack, and rolling max damage on my weapon (A +1 Frost Dwarven Waraxe). I don't think I'm particularly overpowered for my level, but the DM and the other players (who take turns DMing) have decided that I'm going to be the main target of the monsters from now on. While I don't mind this, it sounds like they're going after me for the wrong reasons. Are they right in that I am doing too much?
DarkRhystar 11-04-06, 06:24 PM	Rolling max damage, a Wizard of your level can be doing well over 100 damage per round or tossing save-or-die spells. Comparatively (which may not mean all that much), you're not doing nearly as much damage as competing classes could be. Your character does well. He's a Barbarian which crushes things and crushes them well. I believe that it is unfair to target a character simply because he is moderately decent at what he does. However, look at this from the enemies perspectives. If they see one enemy doing a lot of damage, they're going to realize that enemy is the one they need to defeat to survive. This mentality varies from enemy to enemy (some may prefer weaker targets), but it is logical. If the DM is blanket targeting your character, you should call him on it because that is unfair. Just make sure it is such and not simply that enemies are using smarter tactics.
Morrowner 11-04-06, 06:26 PM	That doesn't sound unreasonable at all.There are a ton of races you could be that are as strong or mechanically stronger than a wood elf so you didn't get cheesy with the race. All of the feats that you took to make the guy an uber charger come at price and the price you pay is versatility. Your character's charge attack is awesome because it should be awesome. Finally, realize that after a charge the DM can wail the living bejeezus out of your character with a beefy monster's full attack. Post charge there is -4 penalty to your AC and you've only got a 12 in your Constitution. Running into a few Elite Huge Trolls, Ettins, Atachs, Hill Giants, and assorted other brick wall beasties will convince everyone involved that you are not broken.
PiedmonSama 11-04-06, 06:40 PM	49 max damage for a 7th level warrior is good, but only extraordinary if you're a Paladin or Knight, pretty much. Your character doesn't sound overpowering to me at all---he's deadly in the first charge, sure, but if that's what he's specialized for then he ought to be. Unless your fellow PCs are very gimped builds, he shouldn't be taking the spotlight outside the first two rounds.
Shaggy_Shaggs 11-04-06, 06:45 PM	His question is loaded anyway. Maximum damage is irrelevant, it's average damage that matters. People very seldom swing for max damage, and even those with lucky damage dice don't always hit. There seems to be some bias with this DM. That, or he doesn't really understand how math works. Oh, and for the question of whether you're doing too much - hell no. If 49 is your max noncritical damage at that level, you're competent, but you don't exactly have bragging rights.
ZypherX 11-04-06, 07:49 PM	Ok, now a rules question. The rules for charge say that I need to move 10 feet minimum, and in order for Leap Attack to work, I need to jump 10 feet. If I jump 10 feet from a standing start, would that count as a charge for the purposes of Leap Attack?
PiedmonSama 11-04-06, 07:55 PM	Sure, as long as you're moving in a straight line you can Charge through the air, in the water, up or down surfaces, etc.
FeceMan 11-04-06, 11:06 PM	Rolling max damage, a Wizard of your level can be doing well over 100 damage per round or tossing save-or-die spells. ???
ShadowDragon8685 11-04-06, 11:14 PM	Let's see - a 7th level Wizard can cast an Empowered Scorching Ray, which deals out 12d6 Fire damage. 12*6 = 72. Not quite over 100, but closer than 48. He can also cast Phantasmal Killer, which is a save or die or spell. No, your barbarian is not overpowered, especially given that he's not exactly going to be getting in many leaping charges after the opening attack, assuming he makes the initiative that is.
Tyler Do'Urden 11-05-06, 12:02 AM	They ask me what my max damage with one attack is, and I figure it out to be 49. Mind you, this is with Rage, full Power Attack w/ Leap Attack, and rolling max damage on my weapon (A +1 Frost Dwarven Waraxe).Your group doesn't have a rogue? A 7th-level rogue with a +1 flaming dagger and a 14 Strength could do 44 damage in one hit. He'd have to crit on a sneak attack in addition to rolling max on everything, but he could do it with no other special abilities. If the target had the cold subtype, it'd be 47. Every single player or group I've ever encountered or even heard of has gone through a phase where they judge character power by maximum damage. Every single one. They all get past it. Why? Because maximum damage is so unlikely that it will probably never, ever happen. My character can do 150 damage in a single punch. But it's never going to happen because I'd have to roll max on 13 dice, not to mention confirming the crit.
Sinner6 11-09-06, 04:44 PM	No way is your guy overpowered. I had a 7 level fighter do about 74 two weeks ago. I don't remember what all the circumstances were but I had bulls strength, and enlarge person, and hit on both swings and had some good damage rolls.
Cifer 11-09-06, 05:11 PM	I had about the same thing when my mounted character did his first charge after reaching L6 - triple damage (spirited charge + lance) with a twohanded weapon, power attack +3 and cavalry charger for an extra +2 (*3=+6) damage meant for a pretty surprised "Er... 60 damage.". After everyone picked up their jaws from the floor, we realized that it was a very situational damage.
allenchan 11-09-06, 06:20 PM	The DM should just learn to play the monsters better, tactically. As already mentioned, if you dont kill them in the first strike, it seems like your char is going to end up in a world of hurt pretty fast. Secondly, if you're fighting the same group of monsters, and some of them escape/survive, then surely they'll learn your tactics and the next groups will be readying against charges.
Neratos 11-09-06, 07:32 PM	A 7th level (i believe) crusader could do anywhere from 50-99999999 dmg in one hit. Granted this is due to INSANE luck, meaning rolling the max on dmg dice about 100 times in a row lol. Your character is not over powered in the slightest.
3erocks 11-09-06, 08:52 PM	Mages can only do that much damage maybe 5 to 10 times a day and then they are depleted. I am not disagreeing with anyone just stating that when i DM and a player makes a tank i usually make the monster use tactics such as hit and run or missile weapons from afar or a pit in front of the monster. If someone makes a tank in my campaign and thinks all problems are solved with damage they usually rethink if after one of my encounters. A truly creative Dm doesnt really have to compete with any players and can make his encounters interesting and challenging.
Kradlo 11-09-06, 09:08 PM	OK, so I'm playing as a Wood Elf Barbarian 7, STR20, DEX16, CON12, INT10, WIS12, CHR8. Well, the ability scores are quite good, but not over the top, given the racial mods of a Wood Elf. Barring an item that boosts ability scores, that's a 33 point build, +1 Str boost from 4th level. Fewer points if you have Gauntlets of Ogre Power. So, hefty but not "overpowered." After I clobber one of the DMs enemies in the space of two rounds, he acts very confused as to how I'm doing so much damage. This gets into a discussion as to how overpowered my character is. They ask me what my max damage with one attack is, and I figure it out to be 49. Mind you, this is with Rage, full Power Attack w/ Leap Attack, and rolling max damage on my weapon (A +1 Frost Dwarven Waraxe). STOP RIGHT THERE!!! I see the problem! It's a Wood Elf with a Dwarven Waraxe! That must be what's throwing your GM off. Must be an interesting story, and lots of roleplay potential when you meet other Elves or Dwarves. Okay back to the subject. Let's do the math. The attack bonus: Wood Elf Barbarian 7 = BAB +7/+2, Str 24 (while raging) = +7 Str mod. +1 frost Dwarven waraxe. +2 charge bonus. -7 attack penalty (maxed Power Attack). Other bonuses from feats may apply as well. Attack bonus while making Leap Attack: +10 (plus any other feat bonuses). The damage: +1 frost Dwarven waraxe: base damage 1d10, +1 enhancement bonus, 1d6 cold damage. Str bonus +9 (1.5 x Str mod, wielding the waraxe two-handed). Maxed Power Attack with Leap Attack = +28 damage (Power Attack with two-handed weapon, -7 attack penalty for +14 damage, Leap Attack for +100% extra damage, as per the errata). That's a maximum of 49 damage, plus up to 6 points of frost damage. If you rolled a critical, you could inflict up to 147 points (plus up to 6 points of cold). Yep, that's a whole lot of damage there. But what does this scenario require? You're raging (okay, not hard to do, you're a barbarian). You're charging (so only the first round of combat), and you have to leap at least 10 feet of horizontal distance (not hard with any kind of Jump skill). And you have to take a hefty -7 penalty to your attack roll, meaning that you could flat out miss (and look a bit silly). It's a gamble, but one that can pay off in a huge first round smack. Now, you have a -7 penalty to your attacks for the whole round (including attacks of opportunity), and a -4 penalty to your AC. Chances are that if you didn't kill the monster in the first hit, or he had friends, you're going to be hit back, and fairly hard. I don't think I'm particularly overpowered for my level, but the DM and the other players (who take turns DMing) have decided that I'm going to be the main target of the monsters from now on. While I don't mind this, it sounds like they're going after me for the wrong reasons. Are they right in that I am doing too much? Nope, you're not overpowered, you're just strong. Your Con 12 will limit your staying power in combat, so you have to hope to drop your opponents before they drop you. Barbarians wielding big choppy things will deal lots of damage. Some GMs tend to get a little shocked when the numbers get crunched, but they usually get over it when they start to realize that everyone at 7th level is starting to come into power. As for the monsters zeroing in on you, if you're leaping into the fray ahead of your fellow party members, that might happen. Or if the monsters tend to attack Elves first. But your GM shouldn't single you out for grudge attacks simply because your character can dish out some damage once in a while. It's all part of the game, so tell them to relax and have fun.
OneWinged4ngel 11-09-06, 09:13 PM	OK, so I'm playing as a Wood Elf Barbarian 7, STR20, DEX16, CON12, INT10, WIS12, CHR8. After I clobber one of the DMs enemies in the space of two rounds, he acts very confused as to how I'm doing so much damage. This gets into a discussion as to how overpowered my character is. They ask me what my max damage with one attack is, and I figure it out to be 49. Mind you, this is with Rage, full Power Attack w/ Leap Attack, and rolling max damage on my weapon (A +1 Frost Dwarven Waraxe). I don't think I'm particularly overpowered for my level, but the DM and the other players (who take turns DMing) have decided that I'm going to be the main target of the monsters from now on. While I don't mind this, it sounds like they're going after me for the wrong reasons. Are they right in that I am doing too much? Honestly, this isn't that powerful, ESPECIALLY with full power attack. It's seriously pretty easy to get over 100 average damage at level 7 without sacrificing your attack bonus to power attack. For example, a paladin with Charging Smite and Rhino Rush will hit for about 100 damage with just that... and can stack a good deal more on to that (like, say, Leap Attack ;))
KurenaiYami 11-09-06, 10:42 PM	Is this too powerful? No.
Titan W 11-09-06, 11:15 PM	Yeah my rogue/swordsage tops out about 66 at 6th level (and only a 5% miss chance in the first round of combat but only 33 max damage (increased by PA for 4 more) otherwise it's 2 attacks power attacked with a 2xbastard sword against an auto-flanked opponent for full SA damage. (only 1 SS level (R/R/R/R/SS/R so that's 3D6 extra per hit) so 6D6 plus 2D10 (dual Bastard Swords) plus another 6 (STR) and another 4 (average power attack) for max of 36+20+10=66 plus if I get 1st round (and with a +8 Init from 18 dex and improved initiative it happens often) usually an added single attack of max 33 for a possible 99 damage 1st round. so no, your'e not broken in the least (especially since the rogue isn't a primary combatant class). If they push the issue wait 4 levels and complain about the casters who are able to lightning bolt for 11D6 a shot and cast it empowered for 11D6+33 damage (max 99 per round min 44 per round) and that's thinking low... very, very, low.
Neofish 11-10-06, 02:40 AM	Your Dm use large creatures? Does he enforce the AoO's you provoke from them during your charge? How about ANY badguys with Improved Trip and a polearm? Your not overpowered, your DM has shat for brains the in tactical department...
Reinforcements 11-10-06, 11:14 AM	Yeah... not overpowered. At all. A 7th-level wizard could do 8d6 damage with a scorching ray (max 48 damage). He could empower it and do 12d6 (max 72), and with Sudden Maximize (or just Maximize in two levels) he can actually do the max. We won't even get into what a druid could do with wild shape, or the fact that a cleric would, at this point, have divine power and be almost as good a melee fighter as you, just from that. Yeah. Not overpowered.
Morrowner 11-10-06, 11:38 AM	There are a ton of charge builds over at CharOp that are mind blowing. Some are very good and reasonable. Some are in the Moon-chucking Hulking Hurler realms of insanity. If you want to be a dick about charging you certainly can be but you are playing reasonably so more power to you. It will look like the DM is taking it out on you but as I and others have pointed out if you miss at level 7 and wind up -7 on AoO and -4 AC you willl be taking harsh beats. Try to tank up before you go gonzo on the charging. That way your DM won't have an embolism when he sees you stack a couple of items that give things up to double damage bonuses on charge damage and deal OH MOMMA damage times X + Y Eleventy Bajillion damage multiplied by 3 and one shot the class levelled monster he spent two hours statting out and backstorying.
EscherEnigma 11-10-06, 11:51 AM	Eh. I'm one of the DMs in the group and I actually changed my mind a while back. (probably the same day he made the post) The damage really isn't what bothers me. Nah, I got much more interesting complaints about his characters. And for reference? Our group consists of: dwarf lvl 6 fighter, human lvl 2 fighter/lvl 4 cleric/lvl 1 PrC (homebrew, cleric/fighter mix class) pixie lvl 3 rogue human lvl 6 druid (who doesn't really wildshape) human lvl 7 wizard As the player of the wizard... eh. We've only gotten two encounters since I introduced my new wizard and in both I wasn't really able to pull out the big guns so we haven't seen what 4th level spells can do yet. The previous wizard retired at level 6 and was a many jaws specialist (combined with sonorous hum). So is he too damaging? Not really. He easily outdamages everyone else (except maybe the wizard, haven't seen yet in actual game play) and the thing that actually annoys me at least (not sure about the other DMs) isn't the mechanics, but other things. But thats not the topic of this thread. Just though I'd add in my opinion as one of the relevant parties.
Morrowner 11-10-06, 12:59 PM	Multiple rotating DMs? How is that treating you? Always wanted to give it a go but felt the regular was fine. I can see a set up like that being awesome or a campaign killing trainwreck.
Archangel62 11-10-06, 01:05 PM	My only complaint is on the wood elf but that's because I find wood elves cheesy. But yeah, you're actually underpowered, I think the problem is more that the people in your group don't know how to optimize.
talkingbeatles 11-10-06, 01:11 PM	No, it's not to powerful! It's a barbarian! They're supposed to drop things as fast as they can by just smashing them. So, no...They're wrong. Your not doing to much damage. And it's just stupid to hotwire every single monster from there on in to target you. And rotating DMs??!! What's the deal with that? (I feel like Seinfeld.) I would suggest to pick a DM and stick with it. Otherwise, I would think it get complicated for both the players and the DMs. But then again I'm not in the campaign... Anyway, about the whole too much damage thing. Yeah, your friends sound like they're full of crap and just made bad characters themselves. Your supposed to deal out lots of damage. That's what your class specializes in. I don't see any real reasoning on their part.
talkingbeatles 11-10-06, 01:21 PM	Eh. I'm one of the DMs in the group and I actually changed my mind a while back. (probably the same day he made the post) The damage really isn't what bothers me. Nah, I got much more interesting complaints about his characters. And for reference? Our group consists of: dwarf lvl 6 fighter, human lvl 2 fighter/lvl 4 cleric/lvl 1 PrC (homebrew, cleric/fighter mix class) pixie lvl 3 rogue human lvl 6 druid (who doesn't really wildshape) human lvl 7 wizard As the player of the wizard... eh. We've only gotten two encounters since I introduced my new wizard and in both I wasn't really able to pull out the big guns so we haven't seen what 4th level spells can do yet. The previous wizard retired at level 6 and was a many jaws specialist (combined with sonorous hum). So is he too damaging? Not really. He easily outdamages everyone else (except maybe the wizard, haven't seen yet in actual game play) and the thing that actually annoys me at least (not sure about the other DMs) isn't the mechanics, but other things. But thats not the topic of this thread. Just though I'd add in my opinion as one of the relevant parties. Why the hell did you post this? I don't see any opinions here that anybody in this thread needed to hear.
EscherEnigma 11-10-06, 03:27 PM	I think my last line summed up my reason for posting pretty nicely. But since you asked... I posted it to A) give a little more information on the situation, and B) to state that at least one of the DMs (there's four of us, one of which is Zypher) already reconsidered their opinions. Also, since someone commented about it... the reason all the monsters gun for his character is because in every fight he starts off with a big attention grabbing hit that easily overshadows the other characters. If the enemies have good mental stats then most of us rationaize that they would know that the best way to reduce damage taken is to eliminate the biggest source of damage. So they gang up on him. Not in the first round, mind you, they only 'gun' for him after he's shown that he's the dangerous person. Now, if I'm throwing less intelligent (or less disciplined) monsters and enemies, then they may not act like that. So... is having intelligent, disciplined, monsters and foes targetting the biggest apparent threat unfair? Maybe a little, but I think it's reasonable. And yes, I do expect other DMs to play their monsters like that to. So if I have my character grappled by an Annis Hag or similar nasty thing, I expect the big nasty to rip my character a new one if they can't get out of there. And since you did ask... the deal with the rotating DMs is that when we started this campaign we were all fairly inexperienced DMs and none of us were sure if we would have the time to run a weekly game. That, and we also find it fun to play a PC every now and then. So instead of having two campaigns going that alternated or somethign of that sort, we just agreed to a shared world where each of us takes a turn at the wheel. Before we make any massive changes or house rules we consult the others and agree on something we all think is fair. So is it a bit chaotic? Maybe. If someone finds something they want to try but need a rules call on we have to run it by all four of us (but since three of us live in the same house anyway it's not THAT bad an issue). I doubt this situation is for everyone and I suspect that in a few months it may change, but for now it works. And thats the deal with the rotating DMs. Hope you found my answers to your questions satisfactory, if not pleasing, TalkingBeatles. EscherEnigma
Morrowner 11-10-06, 03:34 PM	The thing is on a full Power Attack charge he's only at +9 to hit. +9. If the other party members aren't giving him the buff love against an average foe's AC he'll wind up raging and flailing around like a silly douchebag over 50 percent of the time. If you look at hit amounts the Dwarven fighter is probably nearly as good when it comes to damage. He's probably got a superior AC to and a decent Constitution score. He can at least take his lumps like a man compared to the Barbarian.
starfire311 11-10-06, 03:41 PM	gah your DM doesnt want to hear about my paly with leap attack and charging smite lol.
Archangel62 11-10-06, 03:44 PM	What I have to say is that if he's overshadowing other players with THAT crap damage then your group doesn't know much about how to build tough characters, it will come with time but the issue is more the group is weak not that he's too strong.
Morrowner 11-10-06, 03:45 PM	And Killoren for stackable pseudo Smites and Divine Might and Rhino Rush and Rhino armor and Lion's Charge items and Valorous Lances with Dire Lion mounts. For great justice!
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-10-06, 04:56 PM	The question is this to powerful? Can't answeared easily, as it is a relative thing. What your really getting at at is this balanced? And what is and is not baalcned will change from campaign to campaign. Think of a campaign and its DM as a highway. The players are drivers on the highway. Now this highway will have differering factors that effect it's speed limit, balance. This factors include things like school zones, and the other drivers on the highway. The same is true for DMs, things like the knowledge level of the group, and DM will effect what is and is not balanced for it. Asking is this over powered is kinda like asking am I going to fast. Say i was driving 110km/hour. Am I driving too fast? On the trans Canada highway, probally not. Through a school zone on an icy road? Almost certainly I am. Now while raging your character is going to deliver on hemmy of an opening blow, and after that is looking at +10ish to hit and dealing d10 +16. Average damage being about 21. Is that over powered? In my group? No, actually it would be under powered. Our meat shield does on avergae about 25-30 points per round, higher if we buff him. He is only level 5. He can also deal about 18 points per round with his bow. the other two players, and both devine/arcane casters, so you don't havce a hope out damging them. Is it over powered for your group? Not sure, i would have to see the break down for the rest of the group. More then just their levels, and classes. What feats they took, and how are they playing their characters. One of them is a druid 6, you shouldn't be able to hold a candle to him. But your DMs (-1) are concerned, so maybe their is a problem, as the rest of your group does know how to optimize as well as you. Hard to say. EscherEnigma, I would be interested in hearing what those other complainys are. Maybe start a new thread, or email me?
johnkretzer 11-11-06, 01:28 PM	I have dealt with a similar situration. Sigh I stopped playing the character. The character on a full attack was doing about 200 hp of damage to a single creature. The wizard and the cleric in the group complained. That is cheesy. Next session the wizard did about 130 points of damage to 20 creatures. Everybody else thought that was fine. What you did is fine. What do the others do?
Wayett 11-11-06, 01:46 PM	Is that to powerful? A rouge can do 4d6 damage with a sneak attack alone, wizards can throw a lighening bolts that deals 7d6 points of damage, and they could maximize it and enlarge it etc, monks can hit twice for a +4/+4 bonus to hit and deal a d8 with each, fall in slow-mo, AND move an extra 20ft. A ToB Crusader can deal with a long sword can deal, 1d8+8d8 points of damage. No your chacter is not overpowered, your character is surviving, and your DM wants to kill you. Maybe a smart Villian would throw all his spells at you, but throwing monsters like an ogre, or multiple ogres and you have cleave that isn't really going to harm you, and your cleric and wizard and heal and buff you. Ur rogue can take pot shots while u hack through them. Just use it to ur advantage.
d24478667 11-11-06, 02:14 PM	Whoops, thought you said the rogue, not a rogue.
Bat 11-12-06, 10:38 AM	You are definitly not overpowered. I'm playing a similar character in a game righ tnow; I'm a fighter with power attack, weapon focus and specilization and leap attack; I'm concentrating solely on how much damage I can do in a charge. At 7th level (I'm 8th level right now, but my damage hasn't changed) I can do a max of 98 points of damage with my strength bonus to a 2-handed weapon, assuming I maxed Power Attack out, which is an option due to the Shock Trooper feat. I also have a +1 Valourious Longsword. This weapon enhancement (found in Unapproacable Ease, I believe) doubles all damage done with the weapon on a charge. At least, I think it's all damage-I haven't read the description in awhile, but I know it doubles all the damage I am dealing with the weapon.
zephyrmage42 11-12-06, 11:18 AM	I actually just ran into a similar situation. We were at level 10, and I had a warblade charger w/ spirited charge, valorous lance, leap attack, a dire lion (from leadership...though he was mostly for cool factor, his damage was like a kitten comparatively). The problem was that my characters damage was encounter ending. If I got a charge off, I could use the Pouncing Charge maneuver for a full attack. There was usually someone ready to cast haste too. With a modest power attack I was doing 450+ on a charge. My character was a little weaker in regular melee, but really not that much so. His hp was a little lower than the other tank, with a moderately lower AC. The problem was that the DM had to either account for my character almost certainly killing the meanest looking monster we ran into in the first round or two or have all of his enemies fight behind difficult terrain or have spears set against a charge. Also, if somehow my character was incapacitated before getting to attack one of the 500hp monsters that he threw at us, it woulda been game over. We pretty much all agreed that it would be in the best interest of everyone if I switched. Oddly enough, we are also running a rotating DM. We just have each DM do 2-4 sessions in a mini story arc, usually ceneterd around Mr. Widget, the eccentric old gnome that runs a business that finds adventurers for clients. On topic, it does not seemlike your character should be overpowered. Unless he is really overshadowing the other characters (and he shouldnt be, as others pointed out). If he is, maybe you could help the others build their characters a little tougher. Remember, just cause your guys are tough doesn't mean you can't RP.
Morrowner 11-12-06, 05:10 PM	Yeah, pallys and warblades and Leadership fighters can milk the living becheeseus out of the charge characters. Which is why difficult terrain and fliers and mob tactics need to be used. Personally at low levels I really wouldn't allow it because seeing someone do 100+ damage on a fairly average hit makes the other players look like clowns.
ZypherX 11-12-06, 07:40 PM	Wow, didn't realize that this would be so active. Well, we had another session last night, and no one remarked that I was doing omgwtfbbq damage, so I assume that they're ok with it. As for the dwarven waraxe, funny story... see, my character was introduced when the party found him chained up in a dungeon they were exploring. The dwarven fighter was the one who released me, so I swore that I would follow her until I could repay the favor. Anyhoo, we were talking about weapons, and I asked if I could borrow one of her waraxes (she had two). So, that's how that happened. Finally, as for the rest of the party... the fighter is doing typical fighter stuff, not much to say there. The pixie rogue just recently found out that he can polymorph into a gorgon, so that's a lot of fun. Plus, he gets a ranged sneak attack every round thanks to greater invisibility, and we haven't run into any monsters that can get past that yet. The cleric does the cleric thing, nothing special there, and the wizard hasn't really had a chance to shine yet. The druid is a special case. I know druids are supposed to be really good, but so far the player just hasn't been impressive. She usually sticks with casting flaming sphere or call lightning while hiding behind her animal companion. And, truth be told, it often seems that the companion contributes more to the battles than she does.
zephyrmage42 11-12-06, 09:27 PM	Just direct the druid to the Augment Summoning feat and get her to summon Dire Wolves. Anything you fight with 2 legs will be on the ground in no time flat. Easy to understand for what I assume are players without to whole ton of experience and effective without being too ridiculous. Druids that summon are good.
DrMorganes 11-12-06, 09:40 PM	Whoops, thought you said the rogue, not a rogue. He did. In any event, that's 5d6 from a Sneak Attack at Level 7. Don't forget the base weapon damage of d6 (most likely using a short sword or rapier), though he could go kukri by then for the increased critical threat range... In any event, assuming two d6 weapons (e.g., rapier and short sword or two short swords) and TWF, said rogue is looking at 10d6 max damage potential with a successful Sneak Attacks before adding any magical bonuses from elemental damage, precision damage (c.f., Complete Adventurer), weapon enhancement, and STR bonus... Yeah, your barbarian is hardly overpowered.
Votan 11-12-06, 09:49 PM	Just direct the druid to the Augment Summoning feat and get her to summon Dire Wolves. Anything you fight with 2 legs will be on the ground in no time flat. Easy to understand for what I assume are players without to whole ton of experience and effective without being too ridiculous. Druids that summon are good. The problems with summons to me is the one round cating time. I have found that to be often frustrating especially given that the summons last only 7 rounds (42 seconds) at this level. :( One the other hand, Poison is a 3rd level Druid Spell. It's pretty hard not to be effective in battle with that spell unless you are facing contructs or the undead.
Nephlite 11-12-06, 10:04 PM	dwarf lvl 6 fighter, Did the dwarf die...he is a lower level... Assuming max damage and hits with weapon 2 handed: he should deal 1d10 (average 5.5) +2 (at least +1, but since you have a +2 weapon I'd asume he is close) + 4 str (fighter that doesn't have at least 16 str by that level is not done well) +12 PA= max 27, min 20.5. Crit: Max 54, Min 41. Now, the dwarf makes up for less max damage with better AC (he does have full plate available as proficiency). I only took 1 feat. As a fighter he can afford more like weapon focus or leap attack also.
AmariltheBard 11-12-06, 10:25 PM	i dont think it is he is well balanced his con is low, which balances is strong str
Malakai_Demonos 11-12-06, 10:26 PM	I guess I can ad a little insight. I play a leap attacking goliath barbarian in a round robin DM group. The reason we switch off being DM is just cause. All of us want to DM sometime; but, we don't have time or want to take on the stress and hassle of running a campaign by ourselves. However, there are some problems; like one guy giving out like 20 magic items with a combined price of over 500,000gp to our 4th level group. Two items of note were a mirror of life stealing and an amulet of the planes; which he wanted his wizard to have, as well as +6 Bracers of armor which his Wizard would get. So, the rest of us said no way and are going to watch what he does. Also, the other DMs think my character is a super hero becuase of the damage I do now, they haven't even seen me have leap attack yet, because I'm only 3rd level. So, I feel that they may make encounters too hard because they think I can kill anything. So, I guess one thing I can offer is that for a mulit-DM group, communication is key. Especially when it comes too each other's characters.
Cifer 11-13-06, 11:13 AM	The problems with summons to me is the one round cating time. I have found that to be often frustrating especially given that the summons last only 7 rounds (42 seconds) at this level. When a battle is not over within 7 rounds of fighting, the party usually has other problems.
Votan 11-13-06, 11:36 AM	When a battle is not over within 7 rounds of fighting, the party usually has other problems. The issue is less that the battle lasts more than 7 rounds but that it makes it annoying to cast it before the encounter begins. In real time, 42 seconds is very fast so you need to go itno round by round movement to have a summons around at the beginning of the battle. Casting during the batttle is a full round spell so you sit around for an entire round casting and jsut begging to be disrupted.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-13-06, 01:35 PM	depends. i've found my summons to be very powerful. I'm playing a wiz( conj/summoning specialist)/Druid. i find that between myself, my 1 summoned animal, and my companion, I'm taking three turns worth of actions, in one round. I'd say thats worth me wasting 1 round in combat for. My animal companion can still attack in that round as well. Another thing that druid can do is double dip buffs, witht heir animal companio. Cast buff X, and then wade in with you in wild shape form, next your animal companoin. either one of you taking the beats? you concentrate to cast defensively, and heal both of you with one spell, while you companion conitnuess to apply pressure. When all else fail, you still have flame strike on your spell list. Make no mistake, the druid is the unlimate power house for a reason.
Morrowner 11-14-06, 11:08 AM	Variant Conjurationist specialists with the feat Rapid Spell or metamagic rods of Magic can pop off Augmented summons as move actions. And yes, it is very very fun.
Balseraph 11-15-06, 03:48 PM	A 7d6 fireball only has to deal average damage to five creatures to deal over 100pts. Just to put that in perspective perhaps. There's a barbarian/fighter charging build in my game right now. They're strong, so I usually just design encounters with something to keep him busy while the other two PCs have to work together to overcome something else. (There's a wizard/rogue and an artificer, so dealing with something between themselves is actually quite a feat :P)