It's not my game, but… [Archive] - Wizards Community

It's not my game, but… [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Esponer
06-17-07, 07:46 PM …I have to rant. I've been talking to an online friend of mine for an hour now after realising she plays D&D once a week with her friends in real life. I never properly realised before how terribly the rules are misunderstood.

To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him.

This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon. The group doesn't understand level adjustments — she started at level 6, the others at level 9, and now she and the others are level 17.

Well, not all of them. See, they think if you take the first level of another class, you start out at 1,000 XP again. So the single-classed druid is pretty low level.

It made me feel awful when she told me that her character was overpowered. A half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 whose feats include Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Quick Draw, Run etc.? She boasted about +30 base attack, 29 AC and saving throws all above 10 — I feel like weeping.

It's not a difficult game to understand, is it? Why is it played this horribly? Levelling up faster when multiclassing? A "spellcasting check" the DM actually thinks exists?

Should games like this be broken into by knowledgeable players who actually know the damn rules, or should someone like me just stay out of it and go somewhere else to be sick? Have any of you heard of people playing the game worse than this?
Einvaldurinn_mikli
06-17-07, 07:54 PM I think you should save your friend. Offer to DM for her over the internet.
Esponer
06-17-07, 07:56 PM Yeah, this came up as I mentioned a friend of mine was restarting his level 17 campaign. Her half-dragon is level 17 (well as far as she knows: ECL 20), so I thought she'd have the experience to switch over. I'd love for her too, but we're going to have to teach her a lot.

We're hardcore roleplayers, but we're also… hard core. We defeated a level 30 boss in one round. Granted, that was because of a trap the soul, trigger object, replica of his sword, true strike plus lots of other stuff disarm attempt plus time stop switch… but still. I need to teach her a lot.
Einvaldurinn_mikli
06-17-07, 08:03 PM I see. Then you might want to run a low level game for her first, so she can get a feel for the actual rules before you throw into a heavily optimized party. I know that I don't have the new people game in my regular party, they simply couldn't keep up and would quit the game.
Karish
06-17-07, 08:31 PM I think you should save your friend. Offer to DM for her over the internet.

I might suggest sending her the PHB aswell.
Krusk
06-17-07, 09:02 PM You could always just let her go at it, sounds to me like they were having fun. If she is having a problem with it, let her join your game where the rules are more closely followed -i assume-.
Zaver
06-17-07, 09:28 PM You could always just let her go at it, sounds to me like they were having fun. If she is having a problem with it, let her join your game where the rules are more closely followed -i assume-.

Exactly. What's it matter how others are playing, so what they have an odd cobbled to gether rule set. If they're having fun and since you said she was boasting about her powerful character it sounds like they are. Though you really should get her to try and have that silly spell rule at least changed to primary casting stat.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
06-18-07, 01:12 AM …I have to rant. I've been talking to an online friend of mine for an hour now after realising she plays D&D once a week with her friends in real life. I never properly realised before how terribly the rules are misunderstood. You'd be surprised at how many times **** like this comes up. My one of my current DMs think that the greater turning ability granted by Radiant servant of pelor gives a separate pool of greater turn undead attempts. On top of your regular pool.

To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him. Hmmm I'm not familiar with that rule as it does not appear in my version of the PHB...maybe their playing a game simmilar to D&D, but with some differences? perhaps they are smoking a lot of crack?

This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon. The group doesn't understand level adjustments — she started at level 6, the others at level 9, and now she and the others are level 17. Well she is effectively a 20th level character, and thats nothing to sneeze at. However the thing with the half dragon is that at lower levels 6> it is the shiznit. However at her levels its almost useless. Oh and she can fly because the 3.5 half dragon grants a fly speed. I'm not sure what it is, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now... or maybe thats the half-fiend?

Well, not all of them. See, they think if you take the first level of another class, you start out at 1,000 XP again. So the single-classed druid is pretty low level. This sounds like 2nd ed voodoo to me. Or something badly ported over from it, and then haphazardly patched to work with the 3.5 system. Really makes you wonder if they even bother with the PHB at all though.

It made me feel awful when she told me that her character was overpowered. A half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 whose feats include Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Quick Draw, Run etc.? She boasted about +30 base attack, 29 AC and saving throws all above 10 — I feel like weeping. Depends on the campaign. In yours, it is probably fairly weak. However in hers it maybe over the top. The DM sounds like he has an interesting interpretation of the rules, and other things may be a miss as well.

It's not a difficult game to understand, is it? Why is it played this horribly? Levelling up faster when multiclassing? A "spellcasting check" the DM actually thinks exists? again it may not be your cup of tea... and It definitively is not mine, however for them this could the best thing since sliced bread. let them have fun the way they wish, that really isn't bussiness of yours.

Should games like this be broken into by knowledgeable players who actually know the damn rules, or should someone like me just stay out of it and go somewhere else to be sick? Have any of you heard of people playing the game worse than this? Over them the alternative, IE rules as written, and if they decline leave it at that.

Yes I encountered a game that was as fubared as that one. The DM was using rules from: 3.0. 3.5, starwars d20, diablo, war hammer 40k, 2nd ed, and AD&D. he also had a house rules hand out the size of the PHB, and used 3 separate critical failure charts, along with two critical hit charts. I decided that when the rogue got his leg blown off by the space marine that, that was my last session. But hey the rest of them were having a blast, so good game on them.
Gleepwurp
06-18-07, 09:05 AM I have a few thoughts...

1: It isn't your game. You might be able to say, "Well, that's not we do it in our game," or something similar and not sound like a jerk... but in deciding to make it your mission to "go and teach her how to do it right" you run the risk of being a condescending twit -- just like the boys in the back of the van in the phone service commercials. Don't be that guy.

2: Also -- why redline your blood pressure over how someone else plays the game? Especially if you don't play in that group? If they are having fun, what's the harm?

3: Is it possible that your friend is 'winding you up?' When I was in high school (a loooooong time ago --- we still wrote with quills on parchment back then), there was a guy who thought I was a dork for playing D&D (it wasn't even remotely cool back then) and he was always making snide comments like, "I've got a 200th level wizard character... isn't that cool?" I would always just respond, "Uh huh... that's great," rather than entering into the discussion with him simply because I knew he was just trying to get under my skin.
Frugal
06-18-07, 09:20 AM Actually, the no flying is completely legit:

Speed

A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.
CryoSilver
06-18-07, 09:36 AM You should advice your friend to use the following method of discourse with her DM.

1: Slam the DM into a wall
2: Shake DM violently
3: Scream incoherently
4: Shake DM again
5: Walk away
draco1119
06-18-07, 09:41 AM Actually, the flying is completely legit:
Fixed.

Obviously they have access to Races of the Dragon. Unless there's another place to find Dragonborn, of which I am unaware?

In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load.
Frugal
06-18-07, 09:45 AM In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load.

I was just going by what the OP wrote:

This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon.

Going by that, it sounds like OP thinks that a half-elf half-dragon can fly, being a medium creature, they can't (barring taking feats).

Edit: okay, never mind I'm completely on crack (must've gotten some from the group the OP mentioned), totally read that as, "she's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can't fly as a hafl-dragon." Sorry about the confusion.

/me removes foot from mouth.
Phrennzy
06-18-07, 12:34 PM To OP: Leave it alone. If she's having fun and the group is having fun, and she's the one with the 'overpowered' PC, let it go.
Esponer
06-18-07, 01:48 PM 1: It isn't your game. You might be able to say, "Well, that's not we do it in our game," or something similar and not sound like a jerk... but in deciding to make it your mission to "go and teach her how to do it right" you run the risk of being a condescending twit -- just like the boys in the back of the van in the phone service commercials. Don't be that guy.
I agree; that is what I've decided to do. I've let her know about some of the salient points in what I hope was a very diplomatic matter, and she seems rather annoyed about the "spellcasting check" nonsense as it's ruining the fun for some of her friends. She's going to bring it up with her DM, but I have no intention of convincing her to play by all of the rules, nor to teach her to optimise.

2: Also -- why redline your blood pressure over how someone else plays the game? Especially if you don't play in that group? If they are having fun, what's the harm?
It is a little irrational, but I wince that people so poorly misunderstand a very simple system.

3: Is it possible that your friend is 'winding you up?'
Nah.

In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load.
Excuse me being a little frugal (hmm, I wonder why that word suddenly came to mind) with words. She has Races of the Dragon, but does not have any feats (Dragon Wings, that is) which would let her have wings. Ignore that point though, it's a fairly insignificant one.

To OP: Leave it alone. If she's having fun and the group is having fun, and she's the one with the 'overpowered' PC, let it go.
It doesn't sound like the group is having fun.
tete
06-18-07, 01:49 PM To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him.

Sounds like the rules for lower mana settings out of FR IIRC. As long as they are having fun I wouldn't care about what rules they are using. Rules are not in of themselves fun. Its just a way for the players to agree on how fun can happen. So as long as they all agree to play that way sounds fine to me. Though I might suggest playing a more free form rpg.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Esponer 06-17-07, 07:46 PM	…I have to rant. I've been talking to an online friend of mine for an hour now after realising she plays D&D once a week with her friends in real life. I never properly realised before how terribly the rules are misunderstood. To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him. This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon. The group doesn't understand level adjustments — she started at level 6, the others at level 9, and now she and the others are level 17. Well, not all of them. See, they think if you take the first level of another class, you start out at 1,000 XP again. So the single-classed druid is pretty low level. It made me feel awful when she told me that her character was overpowered. A half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 whose feats include Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Quick Draw, Run etc.? She boasted about +30 base attack, 29 AC and saving throws all above 10 — I feel like weeping. It's not a difficult game to understand, is it? Why is it played this horribly? Levelling up faster when multiclassing? A "spellcasting check" the DM actually thinks exists? Should games like this be broken into by knowledgeable players who actually know the damn rules, or should someone like me just stay out of it and go somewhere else to be sick? Have any of you heard of people playing the game worse than this?
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-17-07, 07:54 PM	I think you should save your friend. Offer to DM for her over the internet.
Esponer 06-17-07, 07:56 PM	Yeah, this came up as I mentioned a friend of mine was restarting his level 17 campaign. Her half-dragon is level 17 (well as far as she knows: ECL 20), so I thought she'd have the experience to switch over. I'd love for her too, but we're going to have to teach her a lot. We're hardcore roleplayers, but we're also… hard core. We defeated a level 30 boss in one round. Granted, that was because of a trap the soul, trigger object, replica of his sword, true strike plus lots of other stuff disarm attempt plus time stop switch… but still. I need to teach her a lot.
Einvaldurinn_mikli 06-17-07, 08:03 PM	I see. Then you might want to run a low level game for her first, so she can get a feel for the actual rules before you throw into a heavily optimized party. I know that I don't have the new people game in my regular party, they simply couldn't keep up and would quit the game.
Karish 06-17-07, 08:31 PM	I think you should save your friend. Offer to DM for her over the internet. I might suggest sending her the PHB aswell.
Krusk 06-17-07, 09:02 PM	You could always just let her go at it, sounds to me like they were having fun. If she is having a problem with it, let her join your game where the rules are more closely followed -i assume-.
Zaver 06-17-07, 09:28 PM	You could always just let her go at it, sounds to me like they were having fun. If she is having a problem with it, let her join your game where the rules are more closely followed -i assume-. Exactly. What's it matter how others are playing, so what they have an odd cobbled to gether rule set. If they're having fun and since you said she was boasting about her powerful character it sounds like they are. Though you really should get her to try and have that silly spell rule at least changed to primary casting stat.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 06-18-07, 01:12 AM	…I have to rant. I've been talking to an online friend of mine for an hour now after realising she plays D&D once a week with her friends in real life. I never properly realised before how terribly the rules are misunderstood. You'd be surprised at how many times **** like this comes up. My one of my current DMs think that the greater turning ability granted by Radiant servant of pelor gives a separate pool of greater turn undead attempts. On top of your regular pool. To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him. Hmmm I'm not familiar with that rule as it does not appear in my version of the PHB...maybe their playing a game simmilar to D&D, but with some differences? perhaps they are smoking a lot of crack? This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon. The group doesn't understand level adjustments — she started at level 6, the others at level 9, and now she and the others are level 17. Well she is effectively a 20th level character, and thats nothing to sneeze at. However the thing with the half dragon is that at lower levels 6> it is the shiznit. However at her levels its almost useless. Oh and she can fly because the 3.5 half dragon grants a fly speed. I'm not sure what it is, and I'm too lazy to look it up right now... or maybe thats the half-fiend? Well, not all of them. See, they think if you take the first level of another class, you start out at 1,000 XP again. So the single-classed druid is pretty low level. This sounds like 2nd ed voodoo to me. Or something badly ported over from it, and then haphazardly patched to work with the 3.5 system. Really makes you wonder if they even bother with the PHB at all though. It made me feel awful when she told me that her character was overpowered. A half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 whose feats include Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation, Quick Draw, Run etc.? She boasted about +30 base attack, 29 AC and saving throws all above 10 — I feel like weeping. Depends on the campaign. In yours, it is probably fairly weak. However in hers it maybe over the top. The DM sounds like he has an interesting interpretation of the rules, and other things may be a miss as well. It's not a difficult game to understand, is it? Why is it played this horribly? Levelling up faster when multiclassing? A "spellcasting check" the DM actually thinks exists? again it may not be your cup of tea... and It definitively is not mine, however for them this could the best thing since sliced bread. let them have fun the way they wish, that really isn't bussiness of yours. Should games like this be broken into by knowledgeable players who actually know the damn rules, or should someone like me just stay out of it and go somewhere else to be sick? Have any of you heard of people playing the game worse than this? Over them the alternative, IE rules as written, and if they decline leave it at that. Yes I encountered a game that was as fubared as that one. The DM was using rules from: 3.0. 3.5, starwars d20, diablo, war hammer 40k, 2nd ed, and AD&D. he also had a house rules hand out the size of the PHB, and used 3 separate critical failure charts, along with two critical hit charts. I decided that when the rogue got his leg blown off by the space marine that, that was my last session. But hey the rest of them were having a blast, so good game on them.
Gleepwurp 06-18-07, 09:05 AM	I have a few thoughts... 1: It isn't your game. You might be able to say, "Well, that's not we do it in our game," or something similar and not sound like a jerk... but in deciding to make it your mission to "go and teach her how to do it right" you run the risk of being a condescending twit -- just like the boys in the back of the van in the phone service commercials. Don't be that guy. 2: Also -- why redline your blood pressure over how someone else plays the game? Especially if you don't play in that group? If they are having fun, what's the harm? 3: Is it possible that your friend is 'winding you up?' When I was in high school (a loooooong time ago --- we still wrote with quills on parchment back then), there was a guy who thought I was a dork for playing D&D (it wasn't even remotely cool back then) and he was always making snide comments like, "I've got a 200th level wizard character... isn't that cool?" I would always just respond, "Uh huh... that's great," rather than entering into the discussion with him simply because I knew he was just trying to get under my skin.
Frugal 06-18-07, 09:20 AM	Actually, the no flying is completely legit: Speed A half-dragon that is Large or larger has wings and can fly at twice its base land speed (maximum 120 ft.) with average maneuverability. A half-dragon that is Medium or smaller does not have wings.
CryoSilver 06-18-07, 09:36 AM	You should advice your friend to use the following method of discourse with her DM. 1: Slam the DM into a wall 2: Shake DM violently 3: Scream incoherently 4: Shake DM again 5: Walk away
draco1119 06-18-07, 09:41 AM	Actually, the flying is completely legit: Fixed. Obviously they have access to Races of the Dragon. Unless there's another place to find Dragonborn, of which I am unaware? In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load.
Frugal 06-18-07, 09:45 AM	In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load. I was just going by what the OP wrote: This player is playing a half-dragon fighter 8 / paladin 9 accused of being overpowered. She wanted to play a dragonborn, but her DM said it was too complicated and insisted she play a half-dragon. She's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can fly as a half-dragon. Going by that, it sounds like OP thinks that a half-elf half-dragon can fly, being a medium creature, they can't (barring taking feats). Edit: okay, never mind I'm completely on crack (must've gotten some from the group the OP mentioned), totally read that as, "she's a half-elf below that, but for some reason can't fly as a hafl-dragon." Sorry about the confusion. /me removes foot from mouth.
Phrennzy 06-18-07, 12:34 PM	To OP: Leave it alone. If she's having fun and the group is having fun, and she's the one with the 'overpowered' PC, let it go.
Esponer 06-18-07, 01:48 PM	1: It isn't your game. You might be able to say, "Well, that's not we do it in our game," or something similar and not sound like a jerk... but in deciding to make it your mission to "go and teach her how to do it right" you run the risk of being a condescending twit -- just like the boys in the back of the van in the phone service commercials. Don't be that guy. I agree; that is what I've decided to do. I've let her know about some of the salient points in what I hope was a very diplomatic matter, and she seems rather annoyed about the "spellcasting check" nonsense as it's ruining the fun for some of her friends. She's going to bring it up with her DM, but I have no intention of convincing her to play by all of the rules, nor to teach her to optimise. 2: Also -- why redline your blood pressure over how someone else plays the game? Especially if you don't play in that group? If they are having fun, what's the harm? It is a little irrational, but I wince that people so poorly misunderstand a very simple system. 3: Is it possible that your friend is 'winding you up?' Nah. In said book, there are two feats you can take which will give a half-dragon of any size a Fly speed: Dragon Wings and Improved Dragon Wings. And Reinforced Wings will let her carry a Medium load, and another feat lets her fly with a Heavy load. Excuse me being a little frugal (hmm, I wonder why that word suddenly came to mind) with words. She has Races of the Dragon, but does not have any feats (Dragon Wings, that is) which would let her have wings. Ignore that point though, it's a fairly insignificant one. To OP: Leave it alone. If she's having fun and the group is having fun, and she's the one with the 'overpowered' PC, let it go. It doesn't sound like the group is having fun.
tete 06-18-07, 01:49 PM	To cast a spell — just to cast it, not to cast defensively (which they haven't heard of) — their sorcerer needs to succeed on a "spellcasting check" which the DM says exists in D&D 3.5. d20 + Wisdom modifier. Wisdom modifier. DC 10 + spell level, if they fail the check the spell fizzles. Apparently their sorcerer has yet to get off a disintegrate once in the campaign. I don't blame him. Sounds like the rules for lower mana settings out of FR IIRC. As long as they are having fun I wouldn't care about what rules they are using. Rules are not in of themselves fun. Its just a way for the players to agree on how fun can happen. So as long as they all agree to play that way sounds fine to me. Though I might suggest playing a more free form rpg.