Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adrius Malech 10-23-04, 05:01 PM	Wohoo! So last session Myself and the Rogue were alone and tracking an individual we'll call the bandit lord. Rumor had it that he was up in the mountains attempting to seek the aid of either a Red dragon or some fire giants in upcoming conquest of a city. Anyways to make a long story short, the rogue and I are now pitted against a young adult red dragon and the combat continues with round 1 next session. So we're a druid level 10 and a Rogue7/Fighter1/Assasin 1(or something like that) up against the dragon. any ideas on tactics that might allow us to win the day? or should we run? and if we do how can we do it effectively with the dragon's movement being so damned fast!
yojimbo99 10-23-04, 05:16 PM	Try diplomacy, or if that doesn't work, summon up a bunch of animals and what have you, while you either run, or just attack while he is restrained(hint hint).
Derren S. 10-23-04, 05:17 PM	Do you have any protection spells in place? If not run and hope that you live. if you have spells up run anyway. you have no character who can withstand close combat with a dragon and unless your DM plays the dragon very dumb, your rolls are never lower than 18 or the druid has acces to some newer books with all their broken druid spell in them you have no chance. When the druid casts spells he will be shredded by the dragon, if he wildshapes he will also be killed because of his low AC. Same goes for the rogue. As for tactics, when you don't have spells for fire resistence up, pray that you both win the initative, let the druid cast fire protection on himself, spread out and hope that the rogue make the save against the dragon breath.
ECOM 10-23-04, 07:25 PM	If you can't negotiate run get be hind cover if you can. Unless there is something wrong with the dragon you dont know about it will wipe the floor with your charicters. If you have to fight. Seperate have the rouge get behind the dragon if posible dont let it use its breathweapon on both of you at the same time. stay out of its reach and cast spells If you are outside use call lighting storm. Use ice storm also can do a lot of damage to fire based creatures Cast protection from fire on yourself summon animals to distract the dragon. forget about spells that require a fort or will save it will make the save (even if you have uber high stats it will probably make them) Ref saves at least it will take half damage good luck your going to need it
Adrius Malech 10-23-04, 07:42 PM	Heh... If worst comes to worst there's a cliff that i can jump off of and wildshape to fly away... but that still means retrieving the rogue...
yojimbo99 10-23-04, 07:44 PM	Make yourself a big bird, and carry him away with you. And hope your faster than the dragon.
Starsword 10-23-04, 07:49 PM	which you won't be... Dragons are very fast... can't earth elementals go into the ground? I'd go that route.
Starsword 10-23-04, 07:55 PM	which you won't be... Dragons are very fast... can't earth elementals go into the ground? I'd go that route.
yojimbo99 10-23-04, 08:03 PM	What about the rogue?
Blackloch 10-23-04, 08:20 PM	he's already dead... =p hehe
Starsword 10-23-04, 08:24 PM	um.. well, a rogue should always have an escape plan anyway, right? Play dead maybe?
yojimbo99 10-23-04, 08:46 PM	Maybe he could show the dragon where more treasure is in exchange for his life. Even a red dragon is fairly honorable.
Adrius Malech 10-23-04, 09:07 PM	When the session begins next time, the initiative is rogue myself(druid) red dragon white dragon(a substitute animal companion that i am rearing; just now very young) my plan is to tell the rogue to delay it's action until after me, then cast air walk on it so that it can get to it(it's hovering in the air right now). the rogue will move in and begin sneak attacking like crazy. likely diverting it's attention also, I'll stand as full cover for my white dragon as it unleashes it's breath damage on me. hopefully i'll make the save after that my white dragon will probably make a quick breath weapon attack then flee to safe spot for a while until it regains another breath attack. 2nd round. rogue continues attack i call lightning storm, 5d6. dragon may make. dragon attacks either rogue or myself, someone gets hurt. white dragon moves out to safety. round 3: rogue continues attack if anyone is seriously hurt, i'll come in and do a cure crit on them for all i've got, otherwise i'll do another lightning storm bolt or possibly even wildshape into a flying creature. dragon will kick some ass, possibly dropping rogue or myself. white dragon remains out of harms way. round 4: rogue may begin to run away or use dragon as cover and attack from behind. ... grr.. this is going to be scary. as for diplomacy, i think that's pretty much a no go as the dragon threatened to eat one of us and take the other's stuff and then combat began with a suprise round against the dragon.
yojimbo99 10-23-04, 09:21 PM	Sounds like a good plan to me. Except for the dying part, of course.
boytbpc 10-23-04, 10:51 PM	What kind of gear do you have? My bard has an elhonna's quiver (IIRC) that is stocked with twenty different kinds of arrows. Bane Human, Bane Dragon, Bane abberation, etc. You really only need 10 of each to be effective. Also, keep a couple of big slaying arrows handy, don't screw around when it comes to big enemies. A slaying arrow against a dragon or an abberation can really save your butt in a pinch. Some silver arrows and cold iron are always useful too. I guess what I'm saying is that if you eat it, sorry but be prepared next time. Boytbpc
monkeywrench 10-24-04, 02:05 AM	1. Stand back. Do not get close to a dragon, they'll mash you on a full attack. At a distance, the worst you have to worry about is the breath weapon and possibly spells (not too high of a caster level on a Mature Adult, I don't think) 2. To deal with the breath weapon, cast Cat's Grace on both of you to bump your reflex saves. Better chance of half damage. None if the Rogue's is really good. 3. Try to get him to focus on the Rogue, who can evade the breath weapon and hopefully shoot it with a bow or something with distance while you cast lightning bolts on the thing. 4. Use your white dragon to the fullest extent. Reds take double damage from cold. He may be what kills the thing. 5. Be prepared to shrug and make new characters
nekrolog 10-24-04, 02:58 AM	Postpone the session as long as possible. Pretend a loved relative died on the same day as the session, so the DM will feel guilty about killing your character. Bring a gun to the session and threaten to kill your DM if he kills your character. Get a latte from Starbucks on the way over, extra foamy. Spit the foam out of your mouth when the DM opens the door, and pretend to be rabid. Or, don't try to fight CR 13 dragons with two level 10 characters. You're welcome. :rolleyes: ;)
Derren S. 10-24-04, 03:01 AM	When the session begins next time, the initiative is rogue myself(druid) red dragon white dragon(a substitute animal companion that i am rearing; just now very young) my plan is to tell the rogue to delay it's action until after me, then cast air walk on it so that it can get to it(it's hovering in the air right now). the rogue will move in and begin sneak attacking like crazy. likely diverting it's attention The rogue will only get one sneak attack and end its turn in the dragons reach, not a very good position. also, I'll stand as full cover for my white dragon as it unleashes it's breath damage on me. hopefully i'll make the save You can't give full cover, only soft cover which means that the dragon gets a +2 (or +4?) bonus on its reflex save. If the white it hit by the breath weapon it is dead or near dead as it recieves double damage from fire. after that my white dragon will probably make a quick breath weapon attack then flee to safe spot for a while until it regains another breath attack. 2nd round. rogue continues attack He would only do normal damage as the dragon isn't flat fooded anymore and is not flanked. i call lightning storm, 5d6. dragon may make. Do you have this spell precasted? It has a 1 round casting time like summoning spells, which means you would be casting this whole turn dragon attacks either rogue or myself, someone gets hurt. If it attacks you, you will probably loose the spell, but the chance is great that the rogue is attacked as the dragon can make a full attack against him. white dragon moves out to safety. A very intelligent move. round 3: rogue continues attack Still no sneak attack unless the dragon closed in on you. Also when the dragon attacked the rogue, he probably isn't in the shape anymore to continue fighting for long. if anyone is seriously hurt, i'll come in and do a cure crit on them for all i've got, otherwise i'll do another lightning storm bolt or possibly even wildshape into a flying creature. Without flying ability you can't heal the rogue and you don't want to waste a heal on the white. A cure critical won't do much anyway. dragon will kick some ass, possibly dropping rogue or myself. Probably, or both when it regains its breath weapon. white dragon remains out of harms way. round 4: rogue may begin to run away or use dragon as cover and attack from behind. ... Attacking from behind still gives no sneak attack. Unless you or the white dragon flank, the rogue is nearly useless as he has problems hitting the dragon. grr.. this is going to be scary. as for diplomacy, i think that's pretty much a no go as the dragon threatened to eat one of us and take the other's stuff and then combat began with a suprise round against the dragon.
ck2001wendt 10-24-04, 11:09 AM	Your party's dead if they don't run or the Dragon isn't feeling VERY charitable, for the following reasons: 1. There's only two of you (your animal companion will only last until the first breath weapon, so it doesn't count), and there's one Dragon. You are level 10, and it's a CR 13. 2. You aren't prepared to face a Dragon (no buffs running). 3. It's faster than either of you (fly spd 150). Your best bet is for the three of you to run away in opposite directions, as fast as you can, and hope the Dragon's irrational hatred of its Chromatic cousin makes it go after your Animal Companion. By that time, if all goes well, you'll be sufficiently far away that it won't be able to find you without great difficulty. If I'm the Rogue, I'd also ponder jumping off that cliff. I didn't see how high up it was, or whether there's water at the bottom, but with a hefty Tumble check he MIGHT survive the fall. At which point, the Dragon would hopefully ignore him. If I'm the Cleric, I'm turning into a bird and trying to fly at top speed through the forest, where I can take advantage of my small size or get lost among all the non-Druidic birds. Let me repeat: if your DM isn't playing the creature idiotic, it will absolutely destroy you by it's 2nd breath weapon. We were fortunate enough to kill a Young Adult Red (and his 8th level Necromancer buddy, and all their 3rd level Cultist lackeys) in THREE rounds last week, but ONLY because we a) got a surprise round on them, b) were buffed in advance and c) had our spells keyed toward Red Dragon destruction (because we scouted well the night before). Even then we nearly had two fatalities (out of a party of five).
Adrius Malech 10-24-04, 12:44 PM	I think that the best course of action might be to beg and plead that we allow a redo of our negotiations, as they were done in haste near the end of the session....
Silver_storm 10-24-04, 03:30 PM	Well, you are two characters of level 10. The Red Dragon is CR 13. That means it's a very tough opponent for an average party of level 10. Noe that I said average party, which means 4 members. So, you're pretty much screwed if you are going to try and defeat it. Offer the dragon something he won't get out of you when you're dead. Don't offer him gold or an item, he can kill you and take that anyway (unless you Bluff him into thinking you're stronger then you actually are, then it might work as the Dragon doesn't want to get hurt needlessly). Offer him information. Do you know where an artifact is? Tell him. Didn't complete a dungeon and there is a lot more treasure there? Tell him. Also, make sure he feels this is a deal that he honorbound to keep. By the way, if you do tell him about the location of an artifact/dungeon, return to a nearby city and inform the higher-level NPC's that you've 'heard' that a Red Dragon is coming to collect that artifact/treasure from a dungeon. Then sit back and watch while Mr. NPC goes slaying the Dragon and gets all the fame and glory. Then loot the Dragon's horde.
Caligula 11-11-04, 05:30 PM	...ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuun!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ToiletGecko 11-11-04, 07:53 PM	All I can say is: Remember, you don't need to outrun the dragon. You just need to outrun the rogue.
obrysii 11-11-04, 08:55 PM	(unless you Bluff him into thinking you're stronger then you actually are, then it might work as the Dragon doesn't want to get hurt needlessly). Of course, Red Dragons could potentially have healing spells in their knowledge...so getting hurt would only be an inconvience, not a major issue.
Demonfey 11-11-04, 09:48 PM	Of course, Red Dragons could potentially have healing spells in their knowledge...so getting hurt would only be an inconvience, not a major issue. I am pretty sure that they receive those later. My suggestion would be for your white dragon to take flight, using a breath weapon in the air. It can be more maneuverable in the air, so it may have an advantage. If the rogue can, have him try to jump on its back. That way, it has trouble hitting the rogue and he gets a good shot at its neck, as well as it being somewhat weighed down. Finally, the druid should use every ice spell possible, and any other offensive spells as often as possible. Also, MOVE AWAY FROM EACH OTHER AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. That way, the dragon will have issues hitting multiple targets at once. If all else fails, then run and hide, and possibly set up an ambush ahead. Also, HEALING SPELLS ARE YOUR FRIEND. Before doing this, though, try to negotiate for your lives, and maybe an ally. After all, no matter what color the dragon is, it is still a dragon, and is still someone preferable as a friend.
PhaedrusXY 11-11-04, 10:32 PM	RUN! AWAY! It will be difficult to escape it, because of it's high movement rate, but not impossible. Your strategy should be to get out of it's line of sight and wildshape into a little chipmunk or some other innocuous animal that's natural to that area, then run away. (That's what a normal animal would do too :P ). The rogue needs to get far enough away from the dragon to get outside of it's Blindsense radius, and also out of line of sight. Then he can rely on his Hide skill and slink off. The white dragon is screwed, which might have been the intention of the DM in the first place. He probably realized he was silly for giving you a white dragon as a companion, and decided to "correct" the problem. :D
obrysii 11-12-04, 08:14 PM	I am pretty sure that they receive those later Nope. As soon as they cast scorceror spells they can cast heal spells, as it says under their description that they can cast spells from the cleric list.
Demonfey 11-12-04, 09:37 PM	Yes, but they get those after a certain age. I just forget what age that is
obrysii 11-12-04, 09:58 PM	Ah. At the Young Adult age, they have 5th level caster level, or 3rd level spells.
Uber Goblin 11-13-04, 03:24 AM	What spells do you two have? And what potions? Also if you have any one time use items what are they? And what special powers might the 3 of you have, besides the obvious... I once had to fight an Adult white dragon with a party of 4 around 10th level. I managed to grab onto its back leg while the monk balanced on top of it allowing us a 3D flanking (me on bottom and him on top). I was granted a survival check that rolled a 20, and in that game the 20 was followed by % dice. Well I got an 004 on them so the DM asked me what I wanted to do special with my attack. I told him I wanted to sneak attack the dragon's bum, pull out his lower intestines and tie it around an immoveable rod I had then press the button. With my hasted action and quick draw he allowed me to make the dragon hurt. Since he was flying full speed with us two on him, when I did this it nearly turned the dragon inside out... Moral of the story, creative fighting methods are best for hard challenges. Cave-ins are fun...
Demonfey 11-13-04, 07:04 PM	Run as fast as you can, while shooting at it when it chases you. Zigzag as much as possible. Use the terrain to your advantage, and if you can't, then make it so that it works to your advantage. While you are attacking, have the rogue alternately attack and look for something that could be used against the dragon, like a wand or a sword with the frost enchantment. And keep moving.
Phrennzy 11-13-04, 09:35 PM	Both the Druid and Rogue should declare that their actions are to pee their pants, as well as :censored: them. They should fall down on their knees with their heads lowered and sob about how much they don't want to die. The dragon will be so disgusted that he will leave.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 11-14-04, 01:54 PM	You're screwed. The White Dragon will almost certainly die from the Breath Weapon. (82.5 average damage on a failed save, 41.25 damage on a successful save.) Both you and the rogue will also take significant damage. (55 damage on a failed save and 27.5 damage on a successful save.) The dragon will shred the rogue on a full attack. (84 damage on average, assuming all attacks hit.)
Capt. Pixel 11-14-04, 02:42 PM	Sounds to me like you need a new DM. He's just outclassed your characters in this challenge. :rolleyes: In lieu of a coup, I'd suggest rolling a couple of new characters for yourself and the other player. :weep: