Jack of All Trades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Jack of All Trades [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
bballer911
01-07-05, 09:41 PM I would love to play a jack of all trades type character but I am adverse to the idea of a bard mainly because the character concept I have in mind is far from chrasmatic. I like the mechanics of a bard. 3/4 BAB and spell progression fit right in but the bardic special abilities just don't go. What can I replace the Bardic music abilties with while keeping the class balanced was thinking of a few bonus feats and maybe up to 4d6 sneak attack progression but it just seems to generic. Well any help or ideas would be appriciated thanks in advance.
Bane
01-07-05, 10:37 PM Try out Rogue levels going into the Chameleion PrC from Races of Destiny. It outbards the bard as far as jack of all trades goes.
Asciiman
01-08-05, 04:05 AM Or you could just play a rogue/wizard with two or three levels of druid. Do that and you have just about every base covered and it is simple to build since you have the classes as core. Only problem is that you need great dex, good INT and decent Wisdom.
SilverFoxKnows
01-08-05, 01:10 PM All the Feats, all the skills. Maybe not as exciting as some of the more exotic PrCs but very playable. Just my two coppers.

Frank
e-z0r
01-08-05, 02:18 PM All the Feats, all the skills. Maybe not as exciting as some of the more exotic PrCs but very playable. Just my two coppers.

Frank

No casting.
Mordmorgan the Mad
01-08-05, 02:31 PM What about the Jack of All Trades feat in Complete Adventurer? It lets you use all skills as if you had 1/2 a rank in them (allowing you to use all skills as if trained).
SilverFoxKnows
01-08-05, 03:39 PM I forgot about the spells. A Rogue does get Use Magical Device, not the same as casting, though. If casting is required I'd go Cleric or Druid over Wiz or Sorc. Not a knock on the Wiz, but I'm more familiar with Divine casters. The d8 HD suits my style of play better than the d4. Maybe Cleric/Rogue or Druid/Ranger. Maybe Druid/Barbarian? What's the setting?

Frank
e-z0r
01-08-05, 05:27 PM I forgot about the spells. A Rogue does get Use Magical Device, not the same as casting, though. If casting is required I'd go Cleric or Druid over Wiz or Sorc. Not a knock on the Wiz, but I'm more familiar with Divine casters. The d8 HD suits my style of play better than the d4. Maybe Cleric/Rogue or Druid/Ranger. Maybe Druid/Barbarian? What's the setting?

Frank

The bard still overtakes, since the bard gets some arcane and some divine. A wizard or sorcerer will never learn Cure spells(or any divine spells for that matter), and a cleric/ranger/paladin/druid will never learn any arcane spells, some of which are quite useful.
Bedevere
01-09-05, 02:04 PM Multiclass rogue/wizard, going into the Arcane Trickster PrC?
Bane
01-09-05, 09:42 PM If you want Jack of all trades casting, take Bard 7/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8. 9th level arcane and divine spells. 7 levels worth of bardic skills. Telepathy within 100'. Rebuke undead. Bardic music. Subpar power through most of the build, but it's worth it at the end.

If you want to do something a little different, how about elven Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 10. Decent HP, the wonderful ability to shoot arrows that turn into Meteor Swarms when they hit, a few cool bardic things.
bballer911
01-10-05, 12:03 AM But most of those builds tend to lean toward one thing or another. To much casting not enough fighting or too many skills and nothing else. I was hoping to do a bit of fighting a bit of casting and still have plenty of skills left to work with. Of all the suggestions I really like the Chameleon but any other ideas could help thanks again
Maerdash
01-10-05, 03:09 PM ok heres my oppinion play a bard dont use your bardic music if its not in your character concept, heck dont even write it down on your character sheet, if you dont want to be charasmatic remember this charisma is not all about charm and looks its also about force of personality. I dont know if youd like this, but i know that i dm'd a party whos wizard and cleric were both bards with a character concept rather than what everyone tends to classify bards as.(ie charming diplomats/conmen)

hope this helps
pres_man
01-10-05, 03:32 PM Go rogue and max out use magic device, or how about a cleric (or rogue/cleric) of Olidammara.
Vintar
01-11-05, 02:08 PM How about artificer - some spells - mid BAB - d6 - decent skills - can disable high DC traps. Basically a little of everything but sneaking.
Searchin'
01-11-05, 02:23 PM I say start with a ranger... then take a multiclass in rogue then mage...
bballer911
01-12-05, 09:40 PM Maerdash I like the idea of playing the bard without bardic special abilties but what did you replace them with it seems to gimp the class quite a bit if you just take take them away and don't give anything in return. Thanks
Maerdash
01-12-05, 09:46 PM my players didnt ask for a replacement to the abilities but i gave them each one extra spell known and spell per day kept bardic knowlege and gave them access to a couple of minor direct damage spells. But im a nice dm who like letting players play what they want and tailoring my campaigns around them
(And no you cant play a 5th level halfdragon half ogre barbarian when the rest of the group is 7 th level :D )
bballer911
01-15-05, 11:33 PM anybody have any ideas on how to change the bardic spell list to be more jack of all trades oriented (sp?) you know a bit of everything
DylanW
01-17-05, 06:57 PM I posted some notes on a Jack of All Trades class here (http://forums.tvga.org/viewtopic.php?t=3727) (not a full-fledged class outline, but basically the notes to build it from Bard and Rogue).

Haven't tested it out (or even rolled up a character with it), so I'm not sure how balanced it is. But it's the way I'd approach the Jack of All Trades idea, since the way I'd play a JoAT is somewhere between Bard and Rogue.
zambuka
01-17-05, 11:19 PM I would love to play a jack of all trades type character but I am adverse to the idea of a bard mainly because the character concept I have in mind is far from chrasmatic. I like the mechanics of a bard. 3/4 BAB and spell progression fit right in but the bardic special abilities just don't go. What can I replace the Bardic music abilties with while keeping the class balanced was thinking of a few bonus feats and maybe up to 4d6 sneak attack progression but it just seems to generic. Well any help or ideas would be appriciated thanks in advance.

As a replacement to bardic music I would suggest a single bonus feat at first, sneak attack bonus as you have there and the rogue's 8 skill points per level rather than the 6 normally used by a bard.

As for being too generic, well it is hard to make a jack of al trades without getting a little generic.

If your GM allows Psionics you may consider replaceing bardic music with a few select psi abilities, say a single power every 3rd level and perhaps 1 or 2 powerpoints per level to use them, or even replace the spell casting and create a psi version of the bard.
bballer911
01-18-05, 01:44 AM A Jack of all Trades is the person who does it all. He may not fight as good as the fighter cast as well as the mage heal as well as the preist or sneak as well as the rogue, but who among them can do a bit of everything. Only the Jack of all Trades.

Adventures: A Jack of all Trades lives for adventure if for no other reason to practice and show off the dizzying array of skills they posess.

Characteristics: A Jack of all Trades will treat every new encounter as a test of his skills. A JoaT prides him/herself on being able to handle any situation thrown at them so most JoaT's have at least one or two tricks hidden away for that occasion where they might come in handy.

Alignment: A Jack of all Trades tends toward a balance in his skills as well as his life so they must have an aspect of neutrality in their alignment.

Other Classes: A Jack of all Trades is what every other class wishes it could be self reliant. JoaT's enjoy the company of all the various classes because of the skills they can pick up from them and the ability to showcase their skills around others.

Role: The JoaT uses whatever ability is needed for the situation at hand.
His main job in a group is to fill in the gaps but he is not solely a support character he is a one man army in and of himself and while he can be overshadowed in a particular area by one class or another he blends them perfectly into a balanced set of skills useful for any situation.

Game Rule Information

JoaTs have the following game statistics.

Abilities: Intelligence determines how powerful a spell a JoaT can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist Dexterity, Charisma and Intelligence are usefull for many of the JoaT's class skills.

Alignment: Neutral good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, or neutral evil.

Hit Die: d8

Class Skills
The JoaT's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+ Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at each additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the JoaT.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A JoaT is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the long sword, rapier, sap, short sword, and short bow. JoaTs are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields).

Because the somatic components required for JoaT spells are relatively simple, a JoaT can cast JoaT spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a JoaT wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multi-class JoaT still incurs normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells: A JoaT casts arcane spells (the same type as wizards and sorcerers), which are drawn from the JoaT spell list. He cast spells as a wizard using a spellbook for preparation. His spell key ability for both spell DCs and bonus spells is Intellegence.

Table The Red Mage
Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special
1 +0 +2 +2 +2 Bonus Feat
2 +1 +2 +2 +2 Sneak Attack +1D6
3 +2 +2 +2 +2
4 +3 +3 +3 +3
5 +3 +3 +3 +3
6 +4 +4 +4 +4
7 +5 +4 +4 +4 Bonus Feat
8 +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +1D6
9 +6/+1 +5 +5 +5
10 +7/+2 +5 +5 +5
11 +8/+3 +6 +6 +6
12 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6
13 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Bonus Feat
14 +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Sneak Attack +1D6
15 +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7
16 +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8
17 +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8
18 +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8
19 +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9 Bonus Feat
20 +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Sneak Attack +1D6

Class Level
0 1 2 3 4 5 6

1 2 - - - - - -
2 3 0 - - - - -
3 3 1 - - - - -
4 3 2 0 - - - -
5 3 3 1 - - - -
6 3 3 2 - - - -
7 3 3 2 0 - - -
8 3 3 3 1 - - -
9 3 3 3 2 - - -
10 3 3 3 2 0 - -
11 3 3 3 3 1 - -
12 3 3 3 3 2 - -
13 3 3 3 3 2 0 -
14 4 3 3 3 3 1 -
15 4 4 3 3 3 2 -
16 4 4 4 3 3 2 0
17 4 4 4 4 3 3 1
18 4 4 4 4 4 3 2
19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3
20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4

Well thats what I've got so far what do you guys think. Also was wondering if i should somehow incorperate Uncanny dodge into the mix and any ideas on a spell list would be appriciated. Thanks for your input.
TheRedRobedWizard
01-18-05, 09:03 AM Easiest way to do it:

1) Remove all Bardic Music from the Bard.

2) Give the Jack of All Trades feat at 1st level as a bonus feat.

3) 3rd level: +1d6 Sneak Attack

4) 6th level: Bonus feat (from the Fighter Bonus Feat list)

5) 9th level: +1d6 Sneak Attack

6) 12th level: Obscure Lore as a bonus feat.

7) 15th level: +1d6 Sneak Attack

8) 18th level: Bonus feat (from the Fighter Bonus Feat list)

There, is it really that hard to modify existing classes, people?

-TRRW
bballer911
01-18-05, 08:12 PM What is obscure lore and in what book is it located
TheRedRobedWizard
01-18-05, 10:30 PM Obscure Lore gives you +4 on Bardic Knowledge, I believe. It is in Complete Adventurer.

-TRRW
allenchan
01-18-05, 10:53 PM I will second the (ignored) suggestion of the chameleon prc. thats what its there for. good fighter, arcane caster, divine caster, trapfinder, etc. just depends on the time of day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bballer911 01-07-05, 09:41 PM	I would love to play a jack of all trades type character but I am adverse to the idea of a bard mainly because the character concept I have in mind is far from chrasmatic. I like the mechanics of a bard. 3/4 BAB and spell progression fit right in but the bardic special abilities just don't go. What can I replace the Bardic music abilties with while keeping the class balanced was thinking of a few bonus feats and maybe up to 4d6 sneak attack progression but it just seems to generic. Well any help or ideas would be appriciated thanks in advance.
Bane 01-07-05, 10:37 PM	Try out Rogue levels going into the Chameleion PrC from Races of Destiny. It outbards the bard as far as jack of all trades goes.
Asciiman 01-08-05, 04:05 AM	Or you could just play a rogue/wizard with two or three levels of druid. Do that and you have just about every base covered and it is simple to build since you have the classes as core. Only problem is that you need great dex, good INT and decent Wisdom.
SilverFoxKnows 01-08-05, 01:10 PM	All the Feats, all the skills. Maybe not as exciting as some of the more exotic PrCs but very playable. Just my two coppers. Frank
e-z0r 01-08-05, 02:18 PM	All the Feats, all the skills. Maybe not as exciting as some of the more exotic PrCs but very playable. Just my two coppers. Frank No casting.
Mordmorgan the Mad 01-08-05, 02:31 PM	What about the Jack of All Trades feat in Complete Adventurer? It lets you use all skills as if you had 1/2 a rank in them (allowing you to use all skills as if trained).
SilverFoxKnows 01-08-05, 03:39 PM	I forgot about the spells. A Rogue does get Use Magical Device, not the same as casting, though. If casting is required I'd go Cleric or Druid over Wiz or Sorc. Not a knock on the Wiz, but I'm more familiar with Divine casters. The d8 HD suits my style of play better than the d4. Maybe Cleric/Rogue or Druid/Ranger. Maybe Druid/Barbarian? What's the setting? Frank
e-z0r 01-08-05, 05:27 PM	I forgot about the spells. A Rogue does get Use Magical Device, not the same as casting, though. If casting is required I'd go Cleric or Druid over Wiz or Sorc. Not a knock on the Wiz, but I'm more familiar with Divine casters. The d8 HD suits my style of play better than the d4. Maybe Cleric/Rogue or Druid/Ranger. Maybe Druid/Barbarian? What's the setting? Frank The bard still overtakes, since the bard gets some arcane and some divine. A wizard or sorcerer will never learn Cure spells(or any divine spells for that matter), and a cleric/ranger/paladin/druid will never learn any arcane spells, some of which are quite useful.
Bedevere 01-09-05, 02:04 PM	Multiclass rogue/wizard, going into the Arcane Trickster PrC?
Bane 01-09-05, 09:42 PM	If you want Jack of all trades casting, take Bard 7/Mindbender 1/Ur-Priest 2/Sublime Chord 2/Mystic Theurge 8. 9th level arcane and divine spells. 7 levels worth of bardic skills. Telepathy within 100'. Rebuke undead. Bardic music. Subpar power through most of the build, but it's worth it at the end. If you want to do something a little different, how about elven Bard 8/Arcane Archer 2/Sublime Chord 10. Decent HP, the wonderful ability to shoot arrows that turn into Meteor Swarms when they hit, a few cool bardic things.
bballer911 01-10-05, 12:03 AM	But most of those builds tend to lean toward one thing or another. To much casting not enough fighting or too many skills and nothing else. I was hoping to do a bit of fighting a bit of casting and still have plenty of skills left to work with. Of all the suggestions I really like the Chameleon but any other ideas could help thanks again
Maerdash 01-10-05, 03:09 PM	ok heres my oppinion play a bard dont use your bardic music if its not in your character concept, heck dont even write it down on your character sheet, if you dont want to be charasmatic remember this charisma is not all about charm and looks its also about force of personality. I dont know if youd like this, but i know that i dm'd a party whos wizard and cleric were both bards with a character concept rather than what everyone tends to classify bards as.(ie charming diplomats/conmen) hope this helps
pres_man 01-10-05, 03:32 PM	Go rogue and max out use magic device, or how about a cleric (or rogue/cleric) of Olidammara.
Vintar 01-11-05, 02:08 PM	How about artificer - some spells - mid BAB - d6 - decent skills - can disable high DC traps. Basically a little of everything but sneaking.
Searchin' 01-11-05, 02:23 PM	I say start with a ranger... then take a multiclass in rogue then mage...
bballer911 01-12-05, 09:40 PM	Maerdash I like the idea of playing the bard without bardic special abilties but what did you replace them with it seems to gimp the class quite a bit if you just take take them away and don't give anything in return. Thanks
Maerdash 01-12-05, 09:46 PM	my players didnt ask for a replacement to the abilities but i gave them each one extra spell known and spell per day kept bardic knowlege and gave them access to a couple of minor direct damage spells. But im a nice dm who like letting players play what they want and tailoring my campaigns around them (And no you cant play a 5th level halfdragon half ogre barbarian when the rest of the group is 7 th level :D )
bballer911 01-15-05, 11:33 PM	anybody have any ideas on how to change the bardic spell list to be more jack of all trades oriented (sp?) you know a bit of everything
DylanW 01-17-05, 06:57 PM	I posted some notes on a Jack of All Trades class here (http://forums.tvga.org/viewtopic.php?t=3727) (not a full-fledged class outline, but basically the notes to build it from Bard and Rogue). Haven't tested it out (or even rolled up a character with it), so I'm not sure how balanced it is. But it's the way I'd approach the Jack of All Trades idea, since the way I'd play a JoAT is somewhere between Bard and Rogue.
zambuka 01-17-05, 11:19 PM	I would love to play a jack of all trades type character but I am adverse to the idea of a bard mainly because the character concept I have in mind is far from chrasmatic. I like the mechanics of a bard. 3/4 BAB and spell progression fit right in but the bardic special abilities just don't go. What can I replace the Bardic music abilties with while keeping the class balanced was thinking of a few bonus feats and maybe up to 4d6 sneak attack progression but it just seems to generic. Well any help or ideas would be appriciated thanks in advance. As a replacement to bardic music I would suggest a single bonus feat at first, sneak attack bonus as you have there and the rogue's 8 skill points per level rather than the 6 normally used by a bard. As for being too generic, well it is hard to make a jack of al trades without getting a little generic. If your GM allows Psionics you may consider replaceing bardic music with a few select psi abilities, say a single power every 3rd level and perhaps 1 or 2 powerpoints per level to use them, or even replace the spell casting and create a psi version of the bard.
bballer911 01-18-05, 01:44 AM	A Jack of all Trades is the person who does it all. He may not fight as good as the fighter cast as well as the mage heal as well as the preist or sneak as well as the rogue, but who among them can do a bit of everything. Only the Jack of all Trades. Adventures: A Jack of all Trades lives for adventure if for no other reason to practice and show off the dizzying array of skills they posess. Characteristics: A Jack of all Trades will treat every new encounter as a test of his skills. A JoaT prides him/herself on being able to handle any situation thrown at them so most JoaT's have at least one or two tricks hidden away for that occasion where they might come in handy. Alignment: A Jack of all Trades tends toward a balance in his skills as well as his life so they must have an aspect of neutrality in their alignment. Other Classes: A Jack of all Trades is what every other class wishes it could be self reliant. JoaT's enjoy the company of all the various classes because of the skills they can pick up from them and the ability to showcase their skills around others. Role: The JoaT uses whatever ability is needed for the situation at hand. His main job in a group is to fill in the gaps but he is not solely a support character he is a one man army in and of himself and while he can be overshadowed in a particular area by one class or another he blends them perfectly into a balanced set of skills useful for any situation. Game Rule Information JoaTs have the following game statistics. Abilities: Intelligence determines how powerful a spell a JoaT can cast, how many spells he can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist Dexterity, Charisma and Intelligence are usefull for many of the JoaT's class skills. Alignment: Neutral good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, or neutral evil. Hit Die: d8 Class Skills The JoaT's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are; Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (n/a), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Magic Device (Cha). Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+ Int modifier) x 4 Skill Points at each additional Level: 6 + Int modifier Class Features All of the following are class features of the JoaT. Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A JoaT is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the long sword, rapier, sap, short sword, and short bow. JoaTs are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). Because the somatic components required for JoaT spells are relatively simple, a JoaT can cast JoaT spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a JoaT wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multi-class JoaT still incurs normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes. Spells: A JoaT casts arcane spells (the same type as wizards and sorcerers), which are drawn from the JoaT spell list. He cast spells as a wizard using a spellbook for preparation. His spell key ability for both spell DCs and bonus spells is Intellegence. Table The Red Mage Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1 +0 +2 +2 +2 Bonus Feat 2 +1 +2 +2 +2 Sneak Attack +1D6 3 +2 +2 +2 +2 4 +3 +3 +3 +3 5 +3 +3 +3 +3 6 +4 +4 +4 +4 7 +5 +4 +4 +4 Bonus Feat 8 +6/+1 +4 +4 +4 Sneak Attack +1D6 9 +6/+1 +5 +5 +5 10 +7/+2 +5 +5 +5 11 +8/+3 +6 +6 +6 12 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 13 +9/+4 +6 +6 +6 Bonus Feat 14 +10/+5 +7 +7 +7 Sneak Attack +1D6 15 +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +7 16 +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8 17 +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +8 18 +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +8 19 +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +9 Bonus Feat 20 +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +9 Sneak Attack +1D6 Class Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 - - - - - - 2 3 0 - - - - - 3 3 1 - - - - - 4 3 2 0 - - - - 5 3 3 1 - - - - 6 3 3 2 - - - - 7 3 3 2 0 - - - 8 3 3 3 1 - - - 9 3 3 3 2 - - - 10 3 3 3 2 0 - - 11 3 3 3 3 1 - - 12 3 3 3 3 2 - - 13 3 3 3 3 2 0 - 14 4 3 3 3 3 1 - 15 4 4 3 3 3 2 - 16 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 17 4 4 4 4 3 3 1 18 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 Well thats what I've got so far what do you guys think. Also was wondering if i should somehow incorperate Uncanny dodge into the mix and any ideas on a spell list would be appriciated. Thanks for your input.
TheRedRobedWizard 01-18-05, 09:03 AM	Easiest way to do it: 1) Remove all Bardic Music from the Bard. 2) Give the Jack of All Trades feat at 1st level as a bonus feat. 3) 3rd level: +1d6 Sneak Attack 4) 6th level: Bonus feat (from the Fighter Bonus Feat list) 5) 9th level: +1d6 Sneak Attack 6) 12th level: Obscure Lore as a bonus feat. 7) 15th level: +1d6 Sneak Attack 8) 18th level: Bonus feat (from the Fighter Bonus Feat list) There, is it really that hard to modify existing classes, people? -TRRW
bballer911 01-18-05, 08:12 PM	What is obscure lore and in what book is it located
TheRedRobedWizard 01-18-05, 10:30 PM	Obscure Lore gives you +4 on Bardic Knowledge, I believe. It is in Complete Adventurer. -TRRW
allenchan 01-18-05, 10:53 PM	I will second the (ignored) suggestion of the chameleon prc. thats what its there for. good fighter, arcane caster, divine caster, trapfinder, etc. just depends on the time of day.