Just got an Overpowered Weapon and Buckler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Just got an Overpowered Weapon and Buckler [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darkprophet232
12-05-05, 03:28 AM Ok, this is a bit long, so if you aren't interested in a long thought process about my character and what he should do, please move on, you won't hurt my feelings.

On to the topic at hand; My character is a halfing lvl 4 rogue/2 fighter/1 whisperknife and at the end of rather small dungeon (four rooms) the group's meet shield (Half-Orc fighter) had been poisened with con damage so badly that the dm needed to roll a 1 on a 1d6 to avoid death (he makes all his rolls in front of us and is a really cool guy, this will be important later on). He rolled the one, and the other fighter in the group (who had been afflicted with an odd monster that kept putting him into rage, can't remember the name) picked him up and just left the dungeon, telling all of us to follow him. Well, my character, being the halfling that he was, saw two doorways leading to new areas and decided to throw a sunrod into one of the rooms once they had all left the dungeon. The sunrod bounced off a treasure horde.

Now, I want to make a point that my character is Chaotic Good. This is also important.

The total of the treasure was around 13k gold in gold pieces and gems and jewery, but the dm's rolls were very hot. VERY HOT. He ended up rolling a gem up that was worth over 90,000 gold, but then decided to re-roll (which turned into a ring that was worth 7,000 gold). He also rolled up a cubic gate for me later (worth 164,000 gold), but then rerolled and it turned into an amulet of natural armor +3. There was also a ring of Climbing (+10)

So far so good, right? Well, then he rolled up a peice of armor and a weapon, which he said, since the main inhabitant of the cave was goblins, would have a good chance of being small (they both turned out to be small, which was great, as I'm the only small character in the campaign). He didn't roll well. Nope. He rolled Incredibly well. I got a +4 moderate fortification buckler and a +2 Shocking, Flaming, Shocking burst dagger.

We did the math, and my character has a total of 3 attacks per round (2 with this weapon, 1 with my second hand) for a total of +13/+13/+8, and if I'm sneak attacking (which I have been doing a somewhat decent job of doing so far) and all hit, which again I've done a decent job of doing, I would do a total of 3d3+7, 3d6 sneak attack, and 2d6 magic damage, and if I crit it's another 1d10 per crit. Average damage (not including crits) is 28 damage per round, which is far more that even the half-orc fighter with monkey grip and a great axe can pull off. To date, the creature we have fought with the most hp would fall to me in three rounds.

The armor I found I'm not giving up, no matter what, but I am thinking of selling the dagger I found and dividing up the profits amongst the group (taking the lion share for myself), mainly because it could scew all combat from hereonin to be far too simple, or far too difficult for others in the party (the other best weapon is a +1 large greataxe). Also, this is obviusly a melee dagger (I would never want to throw this one) and not something that meshes well with the idea of the whisperknife (a primarily throwing prestige class).

Onto the question and the reason behind my posting of this longwinded story, would it be within my alignment to sell the dagger yet keep most of the profits for myself, or not even sell it at all and just be pure destruction in combat?
lord warrior
12-05-05, 03:43 AM According to your alignment, I would say that keeping it is OK. After al, you Are using it to kill evil things, arent you?

As for your GM, tell him that he should NEVER roll randomly for the spoils of adventuring. :rolleyes:
MindWandererB
12-05-05, 07:21 AM I concur. Not many characters would sell good items just to increase the challenge in their lives. Balance is the DM's responsibility, not the players', and certainly not the characters'. Be cool, stay in school--er, character.

And I definitely agree with the DM never rolling treasure randomly. Or at least, never doing it on the fly--the dagger was 100% his fault and he never should have given it out. Now, if the DM admits his mistake and asks you politely to make it never have happened, then go along with it.

BTW, a dagger with both the Shocking and Shocking Burst enchantments does double shocking damage (2d6).
digoraccoon
12-05-05, 08:02 AM I see no problems in selling the dagger. Even though you are taking a majority of the profits, you mentioned sharing a portion with the group which is noble of you.
ff6shadow
12-05-05, 09:29 AM Yeah, DM rolling for treasure can get way out of hand. My DM liked having the players roll for the treasure. That stopped after I rolled three 00's on a group treasure rolls.
Darkprophet232
12-05-05, 01:53 PM Funny thing is, this is the first group of players (I am in four campaigns with this same group +/- a handful of people) that randomly rolled. This is the first time it got really out of hand (the other times have been pretty lackluster so far, "oh look, another scroll of light").

I think what I'll do is keep it for one session, and see if it is as unbalacing as I think it may be. If the other players start getting angry that I'm ending everything too quickly and they can't do anything, then I'll sell it.

MindWandererB, where can I find the information that states that it does 2d6? Is it in the DMG magic items, as I can't find it?
pmurray@bigpond.com
12-05-05, 11:47 PM would it be within my alignment to sell the dagger yet keep most of the profits for myself, or not even sell it at all and just be pure destruction in combat?
IMO: yes. Chaotic means that the character does not think in terms od what is best for the group, although their ultimte aims might be good. A chaotic person is always trying to be self-reliant.
arvis
12-06-05, 12:49 AM OK, there really isn't a problem with rolling for treasure, however....it should be rolled before hand. There is a higher chance of the armor not being small because if it were, the goblin cheiftan would have been wearing it. Probably while repeatedly stabbing the PC's with his "magic knifey". Chances are this would have affected the outcome of the encounters. Any magic items are likely to be used by the creatures that own it. I don't imagine you leave your armor and sword in the other room while you go adventuring. Why would the goblins?
Darkprophet232
12-06-05, 04:33 AM OK, there really isn't a problem with rolling for treasure, however....it should be rolled before hand. There is a higher chance of the armor not being small because if it were, the goblin cheiftan would have been wearing it. Probably while repeatedly stabbing the PC's with his "magic knifey". Chances are this would have affected the outcome of the encounters. Any magic items are likely to be used by the creatures that own it. I don't imagine you leave your armor and sword in the other room while you go adventuring. Why would the goblins?

We were fighting goblins that had one level of Barbarian that were wielding greataxes and two forest trolls. Plus, the goblins all went into a rage the moment we entered the cave. There was no cheiftan or leader in there. Plus, I doubt these goblins would have been able to figure out how to use the dagger (turn it on so to speak) and think it more of a pretty item. But hey, that's how he explained it.
Otto the Bugbear
12-06-05, 07:07 AM You could also speak with your DM and other players about the situation. Ask them how they feel. Then ask them how their characters would feel about having your halfling end deadly encounters a little quicker than they were before.

The dagger could also by one that grows with the character, so to speak. At 7th level, it's only +1 shocking. Then as you level up it'll gain the flaming, the other +1, and the shocking burst abilities. Perhaps every level or every 2/3 levels (8th, 10th, 11th). This would also allow the dagger to reveal even more powers as the character gets to the level where a dagger like that is less and less useful. Just tack on a few more powers and you alieviate the need to sell it/trade it for a better weapon.

Cheers

Otto :)
DarkWarriorKarg
12-06-05, 07:21 AM 1) How do you get so many attacks, as such high to-hit?, you should have 1, 2 with twf. Is this a feaure of the PrC?

2) 1d3+7, +2 from the dagger... does your character have 20 STR?

3) You are expecting criticals all the time?

4) I agree that a +5 equivalent weapon might be a bit much at 7th level, but also take into consideration that faming and shocking are both negated by 5 points of resistance to the respective energy types.

You'll mow through the cannon fodder. Big deal. The Main baddies should be prepared, though.
DungeonMaster
12-06-05, 07:56 AM Your DM isn't using the DMG tables. You can't get a gem worth that amount in the DMG, nor can you get those items from that low an encounter level.
Meh, it's not my game, have fun! :)
Darkprophet232
12-06-05, 01:09 PM 1) How do you get so many attacks, as such high to-hit?, you should have 1, 2 with twf. Is this a feaure of the PrC?

2) 1d3+7, +2 from the dagger... does your character have 20 STR?

3) You are expecting criticals all the time?

4) I agree that a +5 equivalent weapon might be a bit much at 7th level, but also take into consideration that faming and shocking are both negated by 5 points of resistance to the respective energy types.

You'll mow through the cannon fodder. Big deal. The Main baddies should be prepared, though.

I'm doing this from memory as I don't have the character sheet in front of me, so please bear with me.

1. I get three attacks, I have a BAB of +7/+2 at level 8, plus I have 2 weapon fighting. Two attacks with my main hand, one attack with my offhand. The + hit is so high because I have weapon finesse and a 21 dex (not hard to do with a halfling that rolled an 18). So right there its +12/+7 just for my main attacks. The character is small, so it goes up to +13/+8. The weapon has a +2 enchantment on it, so it goes up again to +15/+10. I dual wield daggers (both light) so the penelty to two-hand fighting is only -2 on every attack. So, its +13/+12/+8 (just caught my error of putting the +2 on the offhand attack, which is only masterwork) when I'm in melee. However, I could get another attack in there if I'm throwing, because I have quick draw and rapid shot with any thrown weapon from the PrC.

2. I said 3d3+7, meaning I hit with all three attacks. I have a weak STR so it's only +3 damage from str on all three attacks, and on top of that I attack with a dagger that has a +2 enchanment on it, twice. So 3+4=7.

3. Crits aren't that hard when you roll three dice at the same time, or so I've found.

4. No, no, no, it's not a +5 weapon, its a +6 weapon! +2 enchantment, flaming and shocking add another +2, and finally shocking burst is a +2 enchant. The difference between +5 and +6 is 22,000 gold! For a level 8 character, that's a lot of cash.

I'm not aware of most bad guys with an ECL of 10 or so that have resistence to both Fire and Electricty, and especailly in this campaign, where so far we've been fighting custom made monsters and vermin.

To Otto:
Kind of hard to do that as we ended the campaign where I explained I had this weapon and buckler and asked if anyone had a problem with me having them. One suggested that I sell it, but wasn't dead-set on it as if not for my character, none of the gold would have been found.
psionichamster
12-06-05, 04:25 PM check out the rules regarding shocking and shocking burst enchantments.

as i recall, the wording of the burst ability is "as shocking" but with the 1d10 bonus on a successful critical hit.

that would reduce the weapon by +1 (as the "shocking" part of the enchantment is redundant, and -if i were the dm- would be ignored in favor of the nicer "shocking burst" feature) and knock that 22k off the BUYING price.

that translates into 11k less in your pocket, if you sell it. and what good halfling rogue is gonna cash in a VERY nice SMALL magical knife and SMALL shield + a lot? CG, CN, or CE, you are gonna want that stuff for yourself. (if for no other reason than you are the proper size for the gear)

namaste'
the hamster

(if you do sell it, you should really split the profits equally, after all, you do have a REALLY nice shield, still. )

as far as TWF, unless you have Improved Buckler Defense, you can't get the shield bonus in the same round that you stab (or throw) w/ your off-hand. and even then, that's at a -1 to hit.
Darkprophet232
12-07-05, 01:41 AM Talked to the DM and he said that it would stack, though I still can't find in the DMG and he said that he remembered it somewhere, so it does 2D6 shocking damage.

Also, where does it state that Improved Buckler Defense incurs a -1 to hit? It's not in the complete warrior, nor in the errata. Did it appear later in a different book?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkprophet232 12-05-05, 03:28 AM	Ok, this is a bit long, so if you aren't interested in a long thought process about my character and what he should do, please move on, you won't hurt my feelings. On to the topic at hand; My character is a halfing lvl 4 rogue/2 fighter/1 whisperknife and at the end of rather small dungeon (four rooms) the group's meet shield (Half-Orc fighter) had been poisened with con damage so badly that the dm needed to roll a 1 on a 1d6 to avoid death (he makes all his rolls in front of us and is a really cool guy, this will be important later on). He rolled the one, and the other fighter in the group (who had been afflicted with an odd monster that kept putting him into rage, can't remember the name) picked him up and just left the dungeon, telling all of us to follow him. Well, my character, being the halfling that he was, saw two doorways leading to new areas and decided to throw a sunrod into one of the rooms once they had all left the dungeon. The sunrod bounced off a treasure horde. Now, I want to make a point that my character is Chaotic Good. This is also important. The total of the treasure was around 13k gold in gold pieces and gems and jewery, but the dm's rolls were very hot. VERY HOT. He ended up rolling a gem up that was worth over 90,000 gold, but then decided to re-roll (which turned into a ring that was worth 7,000 gold). He also rolled up a cubic gate for me later (worth 164,000 gold), but then rerolled and it turned into an amulet of natural armor +3. There was also a ring of Climbing (+10) So far so good, right? Well, then he rolled up a peice of armor and a weapon, which he said, since the main inhabitant of the cave was goblins, would have a good chance of being small (they both turned out to be small, which was great, as I'm the only small character in the campaign). He didn't roll well. Nope. He rolled Incredibly well. I got a +4 moderate fortification buckler and a +2 Shocking, Flaming, Shocking burst dagger. We did the math, and my character has a total of 3 attacks per round (2 with this weapon, 1 with my second hand) for a total of +13/+13/+8, and if I'm sneak attacking (which I have been doing a somewhat decent job of doing so far) and all hit, which again I've done a decent job of doing, I would do a total of 3d3+7, 3d6 sneak attack, and 2d6 magic damage, and if I crit it's another 1d10 per crit. Average damage (not including crits) is 28 damage per round, which is far more that even the half-orc fighter with monkey grip and a great axe can pull off. To date, the creature we have fought with the most hp would fall to me in three rounds. The armor I found I'm not giving up, no matter what, but I am thinking of selling the dagger I found and dividing up the profits amongst the group (taking the lion share for myself), mainly because it could scew all combat from hereonin to be far too simple, or far too difficult for others in the party (the other best weapon is a +1 large greataxe). Also, this is obviusly a melee dagger (I would never want to throw this one) and not something that meshes well with the idea of the whisperknife (a primarily throwing prestige class). Onto the question and the reason behind my posting of this longwinded story, would it be within my alignment to sell the dagger yet keep most of the profits for myself, or not even sell it at all and just be pure destruction in combat?
lord warrior 12-05-05, 03:43 AM	According to your alignment, I would say that keeping it is OK. After al, you Are using it to kill evil things, arent you? As for your GM, tell him that he should NEVER roll randomly for the spoils of adventuring. :rolleyes:
MindWandererB 12-05-05, 07:21 AM	I concur. Not many characters would sell good items just to increase the challenge in their lives. Balance is the DM's responsibility, not the players', and certainly not the characters'. Be cool, stay in school--er, character. And I definitely agree with the DM never rolling treasure randomly. Or at least, never doing it on the fly--the dagger was 100% his fault and he never should have given it out. Now, if the DM admits his mistake and asks you politely to make it never have happened, then go along with it. BTW, a dagger with both the Shocking and Shocking Burst enchantments does double shocking damage (2d6).
digoraccoon 12-05-05, 08:02 AM	I see no problems in selling the dagger. Even though you are taking a majority of the profits, you mentioned sharing a portion with the group which is noble of you.
ff6shadow 12-05-05, 09:29 AM	Yeah, DM rolling for treasure can get way out of hand. My DM liked having the players roll for the treasure. That stopped after I rolled three 00's on a group treasure rolls.
Darkprophet232 12-05-05, 01:53 PM	Funny thing is, this is the first group of players (I am in four campaigns with this same group +/- a handful of people) that randomly rolled. This is the first time it got really out of hand (the other times have been pretty lackluster so far, "oh look, another scroll of light"). I think what I'll do is keep it for one session, and see if it is as unbalacing as I think it may be. If the other players start getting angry that I'm ending everything too quickly and they can't do anything, then I'll sell it. MindWandererB, where can I find the information that states that it does 2d6? Is it in the DMG magic items, as I can't find it?
pmurray@bigpond.com 12-05-05, 11:47 PM	would it be within my alignment to sell the dagger yet keep most of the profits for myself, or not even sell it at all and just be pure destruction in combat? IMO: yes. Chaotic means that the character does not think in terms od what is best for the group, although their ultimte aims might be good. A chaotic person is always trying to be self-reliant.
arvis 12-06-05, 12:49 AM	OK, there really isn't a problem with rolling for treasure, however....it should be rolled before hand. There is a higher chance of the armor not being small because if it were, the goblin cheiftan would have been wearing it. Probably while repeatedly stabbing the PC's with his "magic knifey". Chances are this would have affected the outcome of the encounters. Any magic items are likely to be used by the creatures that own it. I don't imagine you leave your armor and sword in the other room while you go adventuring. Why would the goblins?
Darkprophet232 12-06-05, 04:33 AM	OK, there really isn't a problem with rolling for treasure, however....it should be rolled before hand. There is a higher chance of the armor not being small because if it were, the goblin cheiftan would have been wearing it. Probably while repeatedly stabbing the PC's with his "magic knifey". Chances are this would have affected the outcome of the encounters. Any magic items are likely to be used by the creatures that own it. I don't imagine you leave your armor and sword in the other room while you go adventuring. Why would the goblins? We were fighting goblins that had one level of Barbarian that were wielding greataxes and two forest trolls. Plus, the goblins all went into a rage the moment we entered the cave. There was no cheiftan or leader in there. Plus, I doubt these goblins would have been able to figure out how to use the dagger (turn it on so to speak) and think it more of a pretty item. But hey, that's how he explained it.
Otto the Bugbear 12-06-05, 07:07 AM	You could also speak with your DM and other players about the situation. Ask them how they feel. Then ask them how their characters would feel about having your halfling end deadly encounters a little quicker than they were before. The dagger could also by one that grows with the character, so to speak. At 7th level, it's only +1 shocking. Then as you level up it'll gain the flaming, the other +1, and the shocking burst abilities. Perhaps every level or every 2/3 levels (8th, 10th, 11th). This would also allow the dagger to reveal even more powers as the character gets to the level where a dagger like that is less and less useful. Just tack on a few more powers and you alieviate the need to sell it/trade it for a better weapon. Cheers Otto :)
DarkWarriorKarg 12-06-05, 07:21 AM	1) How do you get so many attacks, as such high to-hit?, you should have 1, 2 with twf. Is this a feaure of the PrC? 2) 1d3+7, +2 from the dagger... does your character have 20 STR? 3) You are expecting criticals all the time? 4) I agree that a +5 equivalent weapon might be a bit much at 7th level, but also take into consideration that faming and shocking are both negated by 5 points of resistance to the respective energy types. You'll mow through the cannon fodder. Big deal. The Main baddies should be prepared, though.
DungeonMaster 12-06-05, 07:56 AM	Your DM isn't using the DMG tables. You can't get a gem worth that amount in the DMG, nor can you get those items from that low an encounter level. Meh, it's not my game, have fun! :)
Darkprophet232 12-06-05, 01:09 PM	1) How do you get so many attacks, as such high to-hit?, you should have 1, 2 with twf. Is this a feaure of the PrC? 2) 1d3+7, +2 from the dagger... does your character have 20 STR? 3) You are expecting criticals all the time? 4) I agree that a +5 equivalent weapon might be a bit much at 7th level, but also take into consideration that faming and shocking are both negated by 5 points of resistance to the respective energy types. You'll mow through the cannon fodder. Big deal. The Main baddies should be prepared, though. I'm doing this from memory as I don't have the character sheet in front of me, so please bear with me. 1. I get three attacks, I have a BAB of +7/+2 at level 8, plus I have 2 weapon fighting. Two attacks with my main hand, one attack with my offhand. The + hit is so high because I have weapon finesse and a 21 dex (not hard to do with a halfling that rolled an 18). So right there its +12/+7 just for my main attacks. The character is small, so it goes up to +13/+8. The weapon has a +2 enchantment on it, so it goes up again to +15/+10. I dual wield daggers (both light) so the penelty to two-hand fighting is only -2 on every attack. So, its +13/+12/+8 (just caught my error of putting the +2 on the offhand attack, which is only masterwork) when I'm in melee. However, I could get another attack in there if I'm throwing, because I have quick draw and rapid shot with any thrown weapon from the PrC. 2. I said 3d3+7, meaning I hit with all three attacks. I have a weak STR so it's only +3 damage from str on all three attacks, and on top of that I attack with a dagger that has a +2 enchanment on it, twice. So 3+4=7. 3. Crits aren't that hard when you roll three dice at the same time, or so I've found. 4. No, no, no, it's not a +5 weapon, its a +6 weapon! +2 enchantment, flaming and shocking add another +2, and finally shocking burst is a +2 enchant. The difference between +5 and +6 is 22,000 gold! For a level 8 character, that's a lot of cash. I'm not aware of most bad guys with an ECL of 10 or so that have resistence to both Fire and Electricty, and especailly in this campaign, where so far we've been fighting custom made monsters and vermin. To Otto: Kind of hard to do that as we ended the campaign where I explained I had this weapon and buckler and asked if anyone had a problem with me having them. One suggested that I sell it, but wasn't dead-set on it as if not for my character, none of the gold would have been found.
psionichamster 12-06-05, 04:25 PM	check out the rules regarding shocking and shocking burst enchantments. as i recall, the wording of the burst ability is "as shocking" but with the 1d10 bonus on a successful critical hit. that would reduce the weapon by +1 (as the "shocking" part of the enchantment is redundant, and -if i were the dm- would be ignored in favor of the nicer "shocking burst" feature) and knock that 22k off the BUYING price. that translates into 11k less in your pocket, if you sell it. and what good halfling rogue is gonna cash in a VERY nice SMALL magical knife and SMALL shield + a lot? CG, CN, or CE, you are gonna want that stuff for yourself. (if for no other reason than you are the proper size for the gear) namaste' the hamster (if you do sell it, you should really split the profits equally, after all, you do have a REALLY nice shield, still. ) as far as TWF, unless you have Improved Buckler Defense, you can't get the shield bonus in the same round that you stab (or throw) w/ your off-hand. and even then, that's at a -1 to hit.
Darkprophet232 12-07-05, 01:41 AM	Talked to the DM and he said that it would stack, though I still can't find in the DMG and he said that he remembered it somewhere, so it does 2D6 shocking damage. Also, where does it state that Improved Buckler Defense incurs a -1 to hit? It's not in the complete warrior, nor in the errata. Did it appear later in a different book?