Justification for an adventuring cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Justification for an adventuring cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sir Cridion
01-19-04, 10:05 PM Just as the title says: it's been something I've been wondering for a little while now; what justification does a LG/NG/CG cleric have for 1) Delving into dungeons, looking for treasure, where there probably isn't any evil to be smitten(I think that's the word) or 2) Keeping those nice treasures/selling them when they could be donating (tithing?) them back to their church?

In core, for example, if you were a cleric of Pelor, why would you go to a dungeon to find the "Lost Gem of the Praetor" or whatever? Wouldn't a good cleric stay in his/her community and help around? Otherwise, if they're going around like the rest of their fellow adventurers, doing typical adventuring stuff (aka dungeoneering, exploring, "not-doing-their-duty-according-to-the-precepts-of-their-god", etc.) wouldn't they be hypocritical clerics?

In FR, I can see evil, some neutral, and maybe clerics of Tymora go around adventuring and dungeoneering, but what about the other clerics? For example, I was about to play a cleric of Lathander, but then I realized that such a cleric would have no reason to do "adventuring stuff" (other then fighting evil), and that he'd probably want to tithe all (most) of his treasure to his church (which wouldn't be all that fun).

It's just something I've been struggling to justify, since I have a special place for clerics (my first char back in 2e:D ). I just couldn't really enjoy playing one unless I could justify it.

Thanks in advance
stanks
01-19-04, 10:13 PM beating up the bad guys, destroying evil...spreading the word of your god...vengeance maybe...um...thats about all I can add...but then again...this is the reason I dont play clerics (plus i just dont want too...when bards and rogues are much better!)
Malavus
01-19-04, 10:36 PM There are a couple standard reasons that a cleric of a given religion would travel about adventuring. First and foremost, to spread the word of his God. While it is true that clerics serve a great cause by staying in their communities and helping people, it is also true that the wandering cleric can bring spiritual enlightenment to someone on the road, or to ease suffering in other parts of the world.

Another good line of reasoning would be that the cleric has good friends among the adventuring party, and he wishes to see them through what could be a dangerous or difficult challenge. A good cleric of Pelor would hardly pass up the chance to stand beside his boyhood friend as he descended into a dungeon where god-knows-what could be awaiting him. Unless there was pressing business at the local temple, such a cleric could easily be seen asking for leave from his superiors to see his friend through on his quest.

Also, wandering clerics bring news of the greater world to the church. Having holy agents out and about in the world keeps the fingers of the chuch on the pulse of the campaign world. Having a first hand account from a low ranking priest of a good God about the threat which is gathering in the northlands lends MUCH credence to a low level party when they are trying to convince some arrogant ruler that his land might be in danger.

Of course, all this assume that if you are going to play a good clerci that the party, or at least the majority of them, are good-aligned. Otherwise it would just make no sense to join them.

So really, it is a matter of perspecitive. Why would a cleric got treasure hunting? He wouldn't. But he may accompany a friend who IS going treasure hunting. Then, of course, there is always the option that the DM will throw something more your way. It is not hard at all to see how a cleric would get involved if "evil" forces were involved in the goings on. And that is most often the case, yes?

Let your DM know your concerns. Tell him/her that you want to play a cleric and that you want to be a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic. Let him know that you really need for there to be a REASON for this devoted servant of God to go galavanting off into the hinterlands, and I am sure he will oblige. Religious tension and spiritual conflict are some of the best mood setting tools in any DM arsenal. :)
LoricDAHPaladin
01-19-04, 10:45 PM Originally posted by Malavus
First and foremost, to spread the word of his God.

Badda BING! Good start...but many "adventures" seem to involve treasure hunts.
Sir Cridion
01-19-04, 11:14 PM Originally posted by Malavus
Let your DM know your concerns. Tell him/her that you want to play a cleric and that you want to be a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic. Let him know that you really need for there to be a REASON for this devoted servant of God to go galavanting off into the hinterlands, and I am sure he will oblige. Religious tension and spiritual conflict are some of the best mood setting tools in any DM arsenal. :)

Lol, well, a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic, isn't exactly what I had in mind. :)

As LoricDAHPaladin said, most 'adventures' involve treasure hunts and such. Don't get me wrong, what you said was helpful, but I was thinking more about justifying your run-of-the-mill adventuring cleric. Take Jozan for example, he's an iconic and a cleric of Pelor, but he's often portrayed delving into dungeons for no other reason then because he found a map with "treasure" written on it (ref: DMG).

I think a way to clarify would be to say, how would *I* justify a cleric so that he would fit into your typical (good) adventuring party?

Thanks for the replies so far
Wulfgar
01-20-04, 12:01 AM One PC that I run belongs to a church that insists that its Clerics travel widely, in order to 1) expand their personal knowledge and experience new things, 2) to aid those in need and 3) to spread The Word.
Arkenian
01-20-04, 12:11 AM Well, for one thing, ye olde average dungeon isn't typically full of neutral denizens ;>

Clerics of Pelor, for instance, hunt undead . . . often found in dungeons.

As to keeping treasure? Certainly my clerics always tithe some of it, but the majority of it is used to make me better at what I do.

Clerics are also the direct symbol of the power of their deity . . . it's noted in a few places in 3E FR sources, that after watching the success derived from the church of Tymora's sponsorship of adventurers, other churches have been following suit. Any church (as opposed to the faith itself) has an element of PR associated with their work . . . and it's hard to get better PR than to have one of your clerics figuring prominently and favorably in the latest song the bard sings at the inn.

As to clerics of Lathander, particularly, clerics of Lathander have a stereotype of being young, brash, arrogant, and a bit self-indulgent (if not anything like sunites) while also being good-hearted. Temples of Lathander are typically pretty luxurious places, compared to the austerities of a temple of Ilmater.

A powerful, wealthy, cleric has traditionally been considered by churches to be a sign of the benefits of the deity's favor. And the cleric should still take what opportunities are offered to specifically forward their deity. And, frankly, a DnD player without equipment appropriate to his level isn't worth much ;>

Really, beyond that, it rests on the DM. Fundamentally, adventuring is not a terribly good way to get rich, after a certain point. If all your DM is doing is "Treasure hunts" with no greater motive, than no matter what type of PC you play, there's going to be a certain amount of stretching of credibility.
Malben
01-20-04, 01:03 AM Speaking as someone who's playing a CG cleric (clr7/techsmith9/dis1 of Gond, to be precise), alignment doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the decision to be an adventurer. My cleric is CG, yes. And yes, he's a cleric. These are both exceedingly important aspects of his existence. But the reasons he began to adventure are that he is a follower of the God of Inventors and Smiths, and because he likes money, in approximately that order. As a follower of a god of inventions and craftsmen, he is expected to . . . invent things. He happens to be an exceptionally good armorsmith and weaponsmith, and is also good at making constructs. Not coincidentally, he tends to want to test new designs. Adventuring is a good way to do that, if you're what amounts to a divinely-inspired arms manufacturer.

Putting that aside, though, this cleric of mine is also fond of the things that wealth can do. Given that he's CG, he is actually prone to seeing to the welfare of orphans (in excess of 20 so far), and other such acts of charity and goodness. He also uses his money to foster the creation of new technology, or the spread of existing but rare ones.

And of course, he makes sure that he's got enough cash left over to fund his own research (constructs are expensive, as are magical arms and armor, and wondrous items). He also tries to be sure that he's got enough left to sleep on silk sheets at night, and have good servants to take care of the cooking and cleaning. Good-aligned clerics do not necessarily have to follow a vow of poverty, or even live in moderation.

This is not to say that they can't, either. A paladin I played with for a long time (he was Ilmatari, as it happens), had very minimal possessions -- he wasn't under a vow of poverty, but he most certainly did not try to amass wealth -- and lived under a self-imposed vow of chastity (it drove the female elf bard absolutely nuts, because he was unattainable). He adventured because he was dedicated to fighting evil with his strong right arm, and for no other reason. Since hanging around with the rest of the party, who can best be described as homicidal but essentially good-natured lunatics, tended to bring him into smiting range of evil beings, he did so.
Mutant for Hire
01-20-04, 03:06 AM Look, what is the justification for any adventuring band honestly? Are there really so many dungeons and roving bands of monsters and treasure hoardes and so forth that a group of people can go out and pillage to their hearts content?

To be perfectly honest, if we were going to be realistic, the only groups of people that could realistically resemble an adventuring party would be a band of mercenaries, period. When you get down to it, Conan, who is really the spiritual heart of D&D, was a mercenary for a large chunk of his career, interspersed with a little pillaging here and there.

Priests, genuine priests would almost never go adventuring except on specific missions assigned by their church. Even in a decentralized church, most priests devoted the bulk of their time handling ceremonies in return for tithes from the people. At best you had wandering priests who made a circuit of communities.

No Clerics, no Druids, no Monks, no Paladins or even Rangers for that matter. A band would be composed of Barbarians, Bards, Fighters, Rogues, Sorcerors and Wizards, plus those from other appropriately secular classes. They might get someone from a more religious order on a specific mission, but for the most part, no.

In short, when you start questioning things like why clerics go adventuring, you also have to ask the question is "how are adventurers possible?" Earthdawn was a game where they invented a post-apocalyptic fantasy world that made adventuring in the D&D sense possible, but otherwise, no, not really.
E-Vile
01-20-04, 04:24 AM The churches need powerful clerics to defend their communuties, bring healing aid to people, sponsor their religion and follow quests from their deity.

Does a cleric get powerful by reading 3 sermons a day and copying a manuscript or two?

The churches need adventuring clerics stay great in a god-eat-god world. The reward for those clerics who forgo a life of quiet sermon-giving peace is the wealth and prestige they get from adventuring.

I can even imagine churches forcing cleric adept to adventure until they are powerful enough to be initiated into their order (clerics of Kord and suchlike especially).
the_heart
01-20-04, 07:10 AM most clergy see a distinct division between the community priest and the adventuring cleric. the adventurer is seen as a valuable role in as much as they often travel to new places where they can identify places where the word can be spread. not that an adventurer is expected to stay there. no, he assesses whether a new location is suitable then sends word back that there is a place in need of a preacher.

also if the adventurer has a fair idea of where he's going, what better way of passing news between churches. acting as a glorified messenger is one of the less glorious tasks assigned an adventurer and can teach humility :)

many 'dungeon crawls' i've been on have been less about the treasure than locating ancient evils, or slaying current ones.

hope some of those ideas help.
Taran Alvein
01-20-04, 11:38 AM Smitten is what you are when you're in love. Smote is what you are when someone smites you. Or at least, that's what I was taught.

There are plenty of good reasons for a Cleric to travel! To convert others, help the needy and heal the injured (your fellow party members count as injured needing healing), smite the wicked (or good, if you are evil), spread your deity's teachings. Also, perhaps your Cleric just always wanted to travel. A quest to "spread good/evil" is a perfect excuse to do so.

Now, as for money, in 2nd Edition, Clerics had to give up, I believe it was a 90% tithe to their church. Or maybe it was 10%. Either way, I know someone was getting the lion's share. But anyhow, in 3rd Edition, to promote Cleric PCs, that is no longer the case. So basically, give at your own discretion.
Malben
01-20-04, 07:47 PM Originally posted by Taran Alvein
Smitten is what you are when you're in love. Smote is what you are when someone smites you. Or at least, that's what I was taught. Actually, you were taught in error. The verb in question is "to smite," and forms its preterite by vowel gradation -- so it's not "he smited" but "he smote." You've identified a form of the same verb, but when you're using "to smite" in combination with the verb "to be" you use the participle form, "smitten." If you are smitten with someone or something, you are in love with it or find it overwhelmingly impressive. If your are smitten by someone or something, you are hit. If someone smote you, ordinarily it happened in such a way that they smote you with something, be it a hand, a hammer, or a half-brick in a sock.

Thus, Arkenian might boast after a barroom brawl that he smote E-Vile mightily. And E-Vile might concur, agreeing that he was well and truly smitten, and add that Arkenian is no gentleman because he smote E-Vile not with his hand, as should happen in a fair fight, but with a sockful of pennies.
Darth K'Trava
01-20-04, 07:53 PM My clerics adventure mostly to rid whatever world they're in of evil. That's their primary purpose. They don't preach, they don't rant and rave. They prefer to let their actions speak for themselves.
Arkenian
01-20-04, 08:12 PM I would like to point out that clerics have been involved in war from (to my certain knowledge, I would assume earlier as well, I just haven't read any relevant accounts) Joshua to the present day.

The UNITED STATES military, the military arm of a country that has disestablishment as its founding principal, prefers not to do anything serious without a chaplain along. Ships did not usually carry chaplains, but ship's captains were often endowed by the church the divine authority to speak services for their crews.

And throughout the mideval era you had clergy members engaged in matters of war and/or politics.

Typically clerics haven't been battle trained in recent centuries, but that hasn't been true in all cultures (Although becoming a cleric is a traditional role for those unfit to be warriors for whatever reason)

-Arkenian the Golden
ninjarabbit
01-20-04, 08:53 PM Certain religions would encourage advernturing. Boccob would want his clerics to look for lost knowledge and magic items, Kord wants his followers to fight the good fight, and I could go on. And there is nothing wrong with an adventuring cleric so long as his actions do not violate his deity's ideals, since many clerics may need jobs to make ends meet (can't always rely on the church or donations), and adventuring is one of these jobs.
Glide
01-20-04, 09:16 PM Why should LG clerics be delving out into the world and acquiring loot? Well thats an easy question with an easy answer. You see...TALCUM POWDER TO THE FACE! YAAAA!

And that's why it's legal in 48 out of 50 states....

Happy?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Cridion 01-19-04, 10:05 PM	Just as the title says: it's been something I've been wondering for a little while now; what justification does a LG/NG/CG cleric have for 1) Delving into dungeons, looking for treasure, where there probably isn't any evil to be smitten(I think that's the word) or 2) Keeping those nice treasures/selling them when they could be donating (tithing?) them back to their church? In core, for example, if you were a cleric of Pelor, why would you go to a dungeon to find the "Lost Gem of the Praetor" or whatever? Wouldn't a good cleric stay in his/her community and help around? Otherwise, if they're going around like the rest of their fellow adventurers, doing typical adventuring stuff (aka dungeoneering, exploring, "not-doing-their-duty-according-to-the-precepts-of-their-god", etc.) wouldn't they be hypocritical clerics? In FR, I can see evil, some neutral, and maybe clerics of Tymora go around adventuring and dungeoneering, but what about the other clerics? For example, I was about to play a cleric of Lathander, but then I realized that such a cleric would have no reason to do "adventuring stuff" (other then fighting evil), and that he'd probably want to tithe all (most) of his treasure to his church (which wouldn't be all that fun). It's just something I've been struggling to justify, since I have a special place for clerics (my first char back in 2e:D ). I just couldn't really enjoy playing one unless I could justify it. Thanks in advance
stanks 01-19-04, 10:13 PM	beating up the bad guys, destroying evil...spreading the word of your god...vengeance maybe...um...thats about all I can add...but then again...this is the reason I dont play clerics (plus i just dont want too...when bards and rogues are much better!)
Malavus 01-19-04, 10:36 PM	There are a couple standard reasons that a cleric of a given religion would travel about adventuring. First and foremost, to spread the word of his God. While it is true that clerics serve a great cause by staying in their communities and helping people, it is also true that the wandering cleric can bring spiritual enlightenment to someone on the road, or to ease suffering in other parts of the world. Another good line of reasoning would be that the cleric has good friends among the adventuring party, and he wishes to see them through what could be a dangerous or difficult challenge. A good cleric of Pelor would hardly pass up the chance to stand beside his boyhood friend as he descended into a dungeon where god-knows-what could be awaiting him. Unless there was pressing business at the local temple, such a cleric could easily be seen asking for leave from his superiors to see his friend through on his quest. Also, wandering clerics bring news of the greater world to the church. Having holy agents out and about in the world keeps the fingers of the chuch on the pulse of the campaign world. Having a first hand account from a low ranking priest of a good God about the threat which is gathering in the northlands lends MUCH credence to a low level party when they are trying to convince some arrogant ruler that his land might be in danger. Of course, all this assume that if you are going to play a good clerci that the party, or at least the majority of them, are good-aligned. Otherwise it would just make no sense to join them. So really, it is a matter of perspecitive. Why would a cleric got treasure hunting? He wouldn't. But he may accompany a friend who IS going treasure hunting. Then, of course, there is always the option that the DM will throw something more your way. It is not hard at all to see how a cleric would get involved if "evil" forces were involved in the goings on. And that is most often the case, yes? Let your DM know your concerns. Tell him/her that you want to play a cleric and that you want to be a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic. Let him know that you really need for there to be a REASON for this devoted servant of God to go galavanting off into the hinterlands, and I am sure he will oblige. Religious tension and spiritual conflict are some of the best mood setting tools in any DM arsenal. :)
LoricDAHPaladin 01-19-04, 10:45 PM	Originally posted by Malavus First and foremost, to spread the word of his God. Badda BING! Good start...but many "adventures" seem to involve treasure hunts.
Sir Cridion 01-19-04, 11:14 PM	Originally posted by Malavus Let your DM know your concerns. Tell him/her that you want to play a cleric and that you want to be a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic. Let him know that you really need for there to be a REASON for this devoted servant of God to go galavanting off into the hinterlands, and I am sure he will oblige. Religious tension and spiritual conflict are some of the best mood setting tools in any DM arsenal. :) Lol, well, a true, pious, died-in-the-wool fanatic, isn't exactly what I had in mind. :) As LoricDAHPaladin said, most 'adventures' involve treasure hunts and such. Don't get me wrong, what you said was helpful, but I was thinking more about justifying your run-of-the-mill adventuring cleric. Take Jozan for example, he's an iconic and a cleric of Pelor, but he's often portrayed delving into dungeons for no other reason then because he found a map with "treasure" written on it (ref: DMG). I think a way to clarify would be to say, how would I justify a cleric so that he would fit into your typical (good) adventuring party? Thanks for the replies so far
Wulfgar 01-20-04, 12:01 AM	One PC that I run belongs to a church that insists that its Clerics travel widely, in order to 1) expand their personal knowledge and experience new things, 2) to aid those in need and 3) to spread The Word.
Arkenian 01-20-04, 12:11 AM	Well, for one thing, ye olde average dungeon isn't typically full of neutral denizens ;> Clerics of Pelor, for instance, hunt undead . . . often found in dungeons. As to keeping treasure? Certainly my clerics always tithe some of it, but the majority of it is used to make me better at what I do. Clerics are also the direct symbol of the power of their deity . . . it's noted in a few places in 3E FR sources, that after watching the success derived from the church of Tymora's sponsorship of adventurers, other churches have been following suit. Any church (as opposed to the faith itself) has an element of PR associated with their work . . . and it's hard to get better PR than to have one of your clerics figuring prominently and favorably in the latest song the bard sings at the inn. As to clerics of Lathander, particularly, clerics of Lathander have a stereotype of being young, brash, arrogant, and a bit self-indulgent (if not anything like sunites) while also being good-hearted. Temples of Lathander are typically pretty luxurious places, compared to the austerities of a temple of Ilmater. A powerful, wealthy, cleric has traditionally been considered by churches to be a sign of the benefits of the deity's favor. And the cleric should still take what opportunities are offered to specifically forward their deity. And, frankly, a DnD player without equipment appropriate to his level isn't worth much ;> Really, beyond that, it rests on the DM. Fundamentally, adventuring is not a terribly good way to get rich, after a certain point. If all your DM is doing is "Treasure hunts" with no greater motive, than no matter what type of PC you play, there's going to be a certain amount of stretching of credibility.
Malben 01-20-04, 01:03 AM	Speaking as someone who's playing a CG cleric (clr7/techsmith9/dis1 of Gond, to be precise), alignment doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the decision to be an adventurer. My cleric is CG, yes. And yes, he's a cleric. These are both exceedingly important aspects of his existence. But the reasons he began to adventure are that he is a follower of the God of Inventors and Smiths, and because he likes money, in approximately that order. As a follower of a god of inventions and craftsmen, he is expected to . . . invent things. He happens to be an exceptionally good armorsmith and weaponsmith, and is also good at making constructs. Not coincidentally, he tends to want to test new designs. Adventuring is a good way to do that, if you're what amounts to a divinely-inspired arms manufacturer. Putting that aside, though, this cleric of mine is also fond of the things that wealth can do. Given that he's CG, he is actually prone to seeing to the welfare of orphans (in excess of 20 so far), and other such acts of charity and goodness. He also uses his money to foster the creation of new technology, or the spread of existing but rare ones. And of course, he makes sure that he's got enough cash left over to fund his own research (constructs are expensive, as are magical arms and armor, and wondrous items). He also tries to be sure that he's got enough left to sleep on silk sheets at night, and have good servants to take care of the cooking and cleaning. Good-aligned clerics do not necessarily have to follow a vow of poverty, or even live in moderation. This is not to say that they can't, either. A paladin I played with for a long time (he was Ilmatari, as it happens), had very minimal possessions -- he wasn't under a vow of poverty, but he most certainly did not try to amass wealth -- and lived under a self-imposed vow of chastity (it drove the female elf bard absolutely nuts, because he was unattainable). He adventured because he was dedicated to fighting evil with his strong right arm, and for no other reason. Since hanging around with the rest of the party, who can best be described as homicidal but essentially good-natured lunatics, tended to bring him into smiting range of evil beings, he did so.
Mutant for Hire 01-20-04, 03:06 AM	Look, what is the justification for any adventuring band honestly? Are there really so many dungeons and roving bands of monsters and treasure hoardes and so forth that a group of people can go out and pillage to their hearts content? To be perfectly honest, if we were going to be realistic, the only groups of people that could realistically resemble an adventuring party would be a band of mercenaries, period. When you get down to it, Conan, who is really the spiritual heart of D&D, was a mercenary for a large chunk of his career, interspersed with a little pillaging here and there. Priests, genuine priests would almost never go adventuring except on specific missions assigned by their church. Even in a decentralized church, most priests devoted the bulk of their time handling ceremonies in return for tithes from the people. At best you had wandering priests who made a circuit of communities. No Clerics, no Druids, no Monks, no Paladins or even Rangers for that matter. A band would be composed of Barbarians, Bards, Fighters, Rogues, Sorcerors and Wizards, plus those from other appropriately secular classes. They might get someone from a more religious order on a specific mission, but for the most part, no. In short, when you start questioning things like why clerics go adventuring, you also have to ask the question is "how are adventurers possible?" Earthdawn was a game where they invented a post-apocalyptic fantasy world that made adventuring in the D&D sense possible, but otherwise, no, not really.
E-Vile 01-20-04, 04:24 AM	The churches need powerful clerics to defend their communuties, bring healing aid to people, sponsor their religion and follow quests from their deity. Does a cleric get powerful by reading 3 sermons a day and copying a manuscript or two? The churches need adventuring clerics stay great in a god-eat-god world. The reward for those clerics who forgo a life of quiet sermon-giving peace is the wealth and prestige they get from adventuring. I can even imagine churches forcing cleric adept to adventure until they are powerful enough to be initiated into their order (clerics of Kord and suchlike especially).
the_heart 01-20-04, 07:10 AM	most clergy see a distinct division between the community priest and the adventuring cleric. the adventurer is seen as a valuable role in as much as they often travel to new places where they can identify places where the word can be spread. not that an adventurer is expected to stay there. no, he assesses whether a new location is suitable then sends word back that there is a place in need of a preacher. also if the adventurer has a fair idea of where he's going, what better way of passing news between churches. acting as a glorified messenger is one of the less glorious tasks assigned an adventurer and can teach humility :) many 'dungeon crawls' i've been on have been less about the treasure than locating ancient evils, or slaying current ones. hope some of those ideas help.
Taran Alvein 01-20-04, 11:38 AM	Smitten is what you are when you're in love. Smote is what you are when someone smites you. Or at least, that's what I was taught. There are plenty of good reasons for a Cleric to travel! To convert others, help the needy and heal the injured (your fellow party members count as injured needing healing), smite the wicked (or good, if you are evil), spread your deity's teachings. Also, perhaps your Cleric just always wanted to travel. A quest to "spread good/evil" is a perfect excuse to do so. Now, as for money, in 2nd Edition, Clerics had to give up, I believe it was a 90% tithe to their church. Or maybe it was 10%. Either way, I know someone was getting the lion's share. But anyhow, in 3rd Edition, to promote Cleric PCs, that is no longer the case. So basically, give at your own discretion.
Malben 01-20-04, 07:47 PM	Originally posted by Taran Alvein Smitten is what you are when you're in love. Smote is what you are when someone smites you. Or at least, that's what I was taught. Actually, you were taught in error. The verb in question is "to smite," and forms its preterite by vowel gradation -- so it's not "he smited" but "he smote." You've identified a form of the same verb, but when you're using "to smite" in combination with the verb "to be" you use the participle form, "smitten." If you are smitten with someone or something, you are in love with it or find it overwhelmingly impressive. If your are smitten by someone or something, you are hit. If someone smote you, ordinarily it happened in such a way that they smote you with something, be it a hand, a hammer, or a half-brick in a sock. Thus, Arkenian might boast after a barroom brawl that he smote E-Vile mightily. And E-Vile might concur, agreeing that he was well and truly smitten, and add that Arkenian is no gentleman because he smote E-Vile not with his hand, as should happen in a fair fight, but with a sockful of pennies.
Darth K'Trava 01-20-04, 07:53 PM	My clerics adventure mostly to rid whatever world they're in of evil. That's their primary purpose. They don't preach, they don't rant and rave. They prefer to let their actions speak for themselves.
Arkenian 01-20-04, 08:12 PM	I would like to point out that clerics have been involved in war from (to my certain knowledge, I would assume earlier as well, I just haven't read any relevant accounts) Joshua to the present day. The UNITED STATES military, the military arm of a country that has disestablishment as its founding principal, prefers not to do anything serious without a chaplain along. Ships did not usually carry chaplains, but ship's captains were often endowed by the church the divine authority to speak services for their crews. And throughout the mideval era you had clergy members engaged in matters of war and/or politics. Typically clerics haven't been battle trained in recent centuries, but that hasn't been true in all cultures (Although becoming a cleric is a traditional role for those unfit to be warriors for whatever reason) -Arkenian the Golden
ninjarabbit 01-20-04, 08:53 PM	Certain religions would encourage advernturing. Boccob would want his clerics to look for lost knowledge and magic items, Kord wants his followers to fight the good fight, and I could go on. And there is nothing wrong with an adventuring cleric so long as his actions do not violate his deity's ideals, since many clerics may need jobs to make ends meet (can't always rely on the church or donations), and adventuring is one of these jobs.
Glide 01-20-04, 09:16 PM	Why should LG clerics be delving out into the world and acquiring loot? Well thats an easy question with an easy answer. You see...TALCUM POWDER TO THE FACE! YAAAA! And that's why it's legal in 48 out of 50 states.... Happy?