Justify Spellfire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Justify Spellfire? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
JBeauMI
03-18-06, 01:07 PM This is probably an exercise in the absurd, but here goes...

I am playing a cleric of Mystra (L6) in Faerun (Forgotten Realms) in a modified Age of Worms campaign. The DM short changed my character for any background skills, equipment, etc when I created her. (It was like playing handball with a lake, I put a ball in motion and nothing came back.) Generally, he is a pretty good DM, but this time he made no effort. Anyway, I started asking about Spellfire, because... why not.. it could not hurt, and it changed the subject so I would not rant. The DM stated he could (technically) grant a character spellfire, but no DM ever has. I would need to state my case for why my character should have spell fire.

Does anyone have a clue what could possibly be considered justification for a character getting spellfire? It is not like a diety grants spellfire to a character, unless your character becomes a chosen of Mystra. It seems to be something the character is born with, from what I have read in the FR Campaign Setting book.

Thanks in advance.
Radijs
03-18-06, 02:12 PM What do you mean exactly. If I recall correctly you just had to take a feat to be able to use spellfire.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-18-06, 02:15 PM If I'm reading this correctly, this guy has gotten used to getting crunchy freebies for the way he writes backgrounds, and didn't this time... and now he's looking for some way to write out a "justification" for getting spellfire for free.
Radijs
03-18-06, 02:26 PM I see.

Only the sun comes up for free.
JBeauMI
03-18-06, 02:43 PM Shaggy_Shaggs,
If you cosider a couple skill points and appropriate equipment for the level and class of the character "crunchy", then you are on target. Otherwise, you are trolling.

Radijs,
I was as explicit as possible.

Thanks for the sunshine.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-18-06, 03:11 PM Shaggy_Shaggs,
If you cosider a couple skill points and appropriate equipment for the level and class of the character "crunchy", then you are on target.
I do. Crunch is the mechanical stuff such as skill points and object goodies. Fluff is the roleplay, description, background... the stuff you're trying to squeeze crunch out of. ;)
KublaiKhan
03-18-06, 03:16 PM Rules as Written in the Core do not state that you get any sort of rewards for roleplaying -- other than the paragraph in the DMG which states that the DM has the option to give bonus xp for good roleplaying.

Nowhere are skills, items, feats, or anything else mentioned. In the Rules of the Core, the *only* reward for roleplaying mentioned is xp.

Anything else, take it up with your DM.
JBeauMI
03-18-06, 04:40 PM So nobody knows that a DM is thinking when he says "you can have spellfire if you can justify having it."

If that is NOT the topic of your reply, you are off topic.
Shaggy_Shaggs
03-18-06, 05:00 PM Alright, fine.
Does anyone have a clue what could possibly be considered justification for a character getting spellfire?
Yes, I know. Meeting the requisites to get spellfire rather than trying to skirt around the rules and get it free, would certainly justify getting spellfire.

Have a nice day. :)
Radijs
03-18-06, 05:05 PM Well at the risk of being off-topic: JBeauMI, you need to work on your manners. You're snapping at the hand thats trying to give you advice. You'll catch more flies with honey then vinegar.

And for the on-topic part: Its hard to say when something like that is justified as crunch squeezed out of fluff. Especially since none of us knows how your DM thinks and how he distributes these bonuses. (I'm still assuming you are given these bonuses outside of the standard process of character creation).
The faerun campaign setting says that its bestowed on those few favoured by myrstra. So that would be one way.
SpellMaster
03-18-06, 05:59 PM The feat specifically states that you must aquire DM permision to take it. I don't know a great way to justify the selection as I know far too little about the situation. In one of my games I had a player interested in spellfire wo came up with this.

His character was a wanderer who was constantly hunted by orginizations and supersticious people once he's been found out. Spellfire was something he would use only in an emergency and even then only if there wasn't another option, so as to protect himself.

Hope that helps get the creative juices flowing
ShadowDragon8685
03-18-06, 06:42 PM My DM let me take it. Not even at 1st level, either.

And my character hates Mystra, too. (She's all about Selune.)

My advice? Stop asking for freebies, and if he still won't let you spend a feat at first level on Spellfire, scrap the character and wander on down to the Character Optimization boards to make him wish he had.

Spellfire is one of those feats that falls under "DM's purview". However, when you get DMs who are reluctant to give the purview, I find it helpful to myself to repeat inwardly the mantra that my uncle used to convince reluctant and/or drunk soldiers to do their jobs: "I can't make you, but I can make you wish you had".

Muah. Muahah. Muahahahaaahaa! :evillaugh
R2-DS
03-18-06, 06:53 PM Having Dabbled in Spellfire back in my AD+D 2nd Ed. days I would offer this bit of advise. Save spellfire for a "solo" campaign where your character wont detract from the rest of your parties abilities. Theres nothing wrong with wanting it, but surely someone in your party will wish you didnt.
JBeauMI
03-19-06, 08:12 AM Thank you all for your feedback. It just seemed like an odd thing for the DM to say, that a character could be granted spellfire if you can justify it. Spellfire seems powerful enough to unbalance a game, but if you show me a brass ring I will try to figure out how to reach it. Then I will determine if I want the ring.

I appologize for getting everyone off topic in the beginning. The path that led to the question clearly distracted and detracted.
CriminalTruth
03-19-06, 03:15 PM Spellfire is the WORST feat a DM could EVER allow a player to take. It's entirely over-balancing, and should be reserved only for NPC's

With spellfire a 1st lvl char. could concievably take out a young dragon. Nuff said

( 18D6 that ignores SR ) this ability was def. made with the powergamer in mind.
Radijs
03-19-06, 05:32 PM Doesn't the feat require you to ready an action to absorb a spell targeted at you? Sounds like something you're not going to do every round of combat.

Sure you can ask the party wizard/sorceror to buff you up at the end of the day but a DM can easily prevent that trick by throwing a random encounter in after the wizard has gone through his spells.
20goingon1232
03-19-06, 06:09 PM Spellfire is the WORST feat a DM could EVER allow a player to take. It's entirely over-balancing, and should be reserved only for NPC's

With spellfire a 1st lvl char. could concievably take out a young dragon. Nuff said

( 18D6 that ignores SR ) this ability was def. made with the powergamer in mind.
Incorrect. Getting that 18 points of spellfire is a challenge in itself for a 1st level party. Getting 18 Con is again a challenge in a point-buy scenario, even more so in a 4d6-l scenario.

At higher levels, that 18d6 bolt of doom is a mere scratch and opens you up to everything else.

Spellfire wielders are also hunted like dogs in Faerun.

Given the extremely limited nature of the ability, I say that it is no more broken than Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Spiked Chain).
Berwick
03-19-06, 11:35 PM I had a PC who was allowed Spellfire in one of my games once.....

He also happened to be the most efficient rules lawyer that I have EVER seen...

Whenever he pushed me with his awesome use of this stuff....it just challenged me to be a better DM!

Ended up being one of my most favorite games ever!

Hey,

Spellfire has the oppertunity to SERIOUSLY crank up the power knob on a character...if you get it, understand it entirely before you use it! it is the atom bomb of FR.

Berwick
CriminalTruth
03-20-06, 02:08 AM Incorrect. Getting that 18 points of spellfire is a challenge in itself for a 1st level party. Getting 18 Con is again a challenge in a point-buy scenario, even more so in a 4d6-l scenario.

At higher levels, that 18d6 bolt of doom is a mere scratch and opens you up to everything else.

Spellfire wielders are also hunted like dogs in Faerun.

Given the extremely limited nature of the ability, I say that it is no more broken than Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Spiked Chain).

umm

1st level mage with spell fire feat.

1 spell level a day, not counting bounus spells.

average on this board for any ability score is 15

ok... 15d6 by day 15

even 5d6 at first level is to much and enough to annillate any CR. of 1 or even 3

get another spell caster in the party ( a cleric,sorc,wiz,druid,rog with UMD or bard, hirelings, Leadership feat ( if he allowed spell fire how couldn't he allow leadership? ) )

1 domain spell plus 1 cleric spell ( high wisdom bonus ) plus 1 wizard spell per day is 3 or 4 levels a day.

Heck you can just have spells cast on you at the end of the day before u prepare ur spells during rest ( even if you get ambushed you would have some of them back in ur spell list not to mention your spell fire )

The dm can't jump you EVERY NIGHT.

oh... how about 1 level of rogue or bard and buy 1st level spells from scrolls for 25 GP each.

EASILY ABUSED

and EASILY over powered....

18D6 is = to a 9th level spell

( firestorm is accually weaker )

it ignores SPELL RESISTANCE

umm BROKEN

The feat Itself admites to being broken by the very fact it says "you neeed dm permisstion" just to take it. I'm not aware of any other feats with that catch phrase
Radijs
03-20-06, 04:01 AM A dm doesn't need to jump the players every night. Twice will do. By then the players will be paranoid enough that they won't drain the wizard anymore.
Craith
03-20-06, 08:53 AM umm

1st level mage with spell fire feat.

1 spell level a day, not counting bounus spells.

average on this board for any ability score is 15

ok... 15d6 by day 15

......

You cant't absorb your own spells, you have to ready an action to absorb a spell.
CriminalTruth
03-20-06, 09:17 AM A dm doesn't need to jump the players every night. Twice will do. By then the players will be paranoid enough that they won't drain the wizard anymore.

I'd keep at it.. or hire a rogue to do it with use magic device in a city.. and if a DM did it EVERY single time.. its not a very good DM cause that is an abuse of meta-gaming.

trust me spell fire is entirely to powerful for a player in a game world.

Unless ALL the chars had it..... now if all the chars had it thats a diffrent story... but spell fire just makes a player that much more compared to all other players.

first is the amount of damange it can do ( who as a spell fire wielder isnt going to have a decent con score? ) and even at 10 its extreamly powerful ( better then a lightning bolt cast at 10th lvl considering it goes around SR )

and this is the power in the hands of a 1st lvl char?

It sets the stage for once player to take control of the entire game. I've seen it happen way to often in way to many games..

The only way I could ever see this justified is if its in THE entire party and even then forget about ever throwing an evil wizard at the party ...

Spell fire honestly belongs in story books or NPC's

and honestly if a DM even uses it with an NPC's he's just asking for it cause in alot of ways it can make an NPC better than a PC....

One of my biggest pet peaves as a PLAYER and more importantly as a DM is when well planned things from PLAYERS never work out the way a player plans... i hate that more then anything, im not saying all plans should work but well thought out ones should at least have a chance and this just opens the way for that.

or for having an NPC better then a PC.

Or a PC having some unfair advantage over other players, or taking away from the speacil something that makes PC's speacil.

spell-fire's game mechanics are not only over balancing in the game

but the very feat itself is unbalancing to a game.

except as how one other person said in a " one on one " game.

because then your not taking away from other characters. i mean if you think about it .. if you have a 15 CON u can effectivly throw HIGHER than a 5th lvl spell ( it ignores spell resistance etc etc ) cone of cold does 15d6 flame strike does 15d6 and mages and clerics have to wait until WHAT LEVEL to be able to deal that type of damage 15th!!!? here a char can just take a feat at 1st level and deal that kind of damange and get a D12 for HD if they want.. ohhh... and its ranged.. a touch attack... ohh ignores spell resistance?

not only that... if you think it makes you a " better dm" because now you have to taylor your adventures around ONE PC...... YOUR WRONG.

It makes you a WORSE DM, because you ARE tayloring your adventure around ONE PC. If you are tayloring your games around to " beat" or " limit" spell-fire it makes you a horrible DM and show's that it REALLY IS unbalancing. ( example just jump them in the night so they dont boost him up ) that is unrealistic really.. IT REALLY IS... its poor Dming.... its a DM meta-gaming because he cant handle the situation.. a player with spell-fire. It just Prove's its unbalancing.

Using clerics and wizards in an encounter to " buff up " other villians is poor dming when they would have fire-ball at their disposal... i mean really why wouldnt the wizard cast it at the party? it would have NO IDEA about the spell-fire.

so now what you have is a dm tayloring his campain around one person ... the person with spell-fire...

even if that person " only will use it in defense " ... nope... unbalancing in more ways the one...

I offered THIS to ONE player for spell fire.. and HE TURNED IT DOWN

i said he can absorb up to his CON MOD. in spells ( accually makes more sense )

i said he can release 1d6 at a time no more then 1d6 ranged touch or 1d6 healing.

can not absorb higher then a 2nd level spell.

to me that seems pretty amazing just as a feat...... accually just being able to absorb SPELLS is an amazing feat in D&D let alone being able to throw it back....

if you want a balanced type of spell-fire character?

PLAY A SPELL THEIF ...

AND JUST FORGET ABOUT SPELL-FIRE THE FEAT!!!
Otto the Bugbear
03-20-06, 09:21 AM If this were actually the most awesomest, powerfulest, uberest, game killing thing a PC could possibly take, it would be all over the C.O. board. It is not all over the C.O. board.

Remember, the C.O. board isn't just for players. DMs should also use it (and many do) to be aware of potential problem areas for their game.

Connect the dots from there.

Cheers

Otto :)
CriminalTruth
03-20-06, 09:27 AM I honestly believe it is the most uber awsome feat if a DM runs a game not to account for it. and if you have to run a game to account for one stupid feat its a horrible game to begin with....

what are you going to build a villian with +40 to escape artist to get away from the monk +40 SR to get away from the wizard + 48297492 AC to account for the fighters give him spell fire to account for the Spell fire person .

are you getting the hint? games shouldn't work like that. Players shouldn't be able to do things other players don't have an opportunity to do or have compareable skills for what class they are.

Its not fair to other players, It's not good for a game world.

Period.
ShadowDragon8685
03-20-06, 09:44 AM If it's not for players to take, it should be removed from the rulebooks.

There's no point in having it if you don't let players take it, and it's considerably worse than not having it if you don't let the PCs take it, but you have a habit of giving it to your NPCs.
Senevri
03-20-06, 10:47 AM Not a terribly fun feat, really... Sure, it's powerful. It also allows a character to outshine all others in combat, at least early on, yes. Not terribly fun with any tactical combat focus. (still, the awesome power of "sleep" spell on first level...)

However, it's specifically for Forgotten Realms campaign setting. Which has certain implications:

- Depending on how they determine the PC's moral value, NPCs such as Elminster, Khelben Arunsun and others (Manshoon comes to mind), will be out to
... neutralize your potential threat.

Yes, it's the FR equivalent of a nuclear bomb, and the PC can be expected to be treated as someone lugging 'round a nuclear bomb.

Just my thoughts. Any feat removed from context can get rather nuts. Well,
maybe no "Skill Focus"...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JBeauMI 03-18-06, 01:07 PM	This is probably an exercise in the absurd, but here goes... I am playing a cleric of Mystra (L6) in Faerun (Forgotten Realms) in a modified Age of Worms campaign. The DM short changed my character for any background skills, equipment, etc when I created her. (It was like playing handball with a lake, I put a ball in motion and nothing came back.) Generally, he is a pretty good DM, but this time he made no effort. Anyway, I started asking about Spellfire, because... why not.. it could not hurt, and it changed the subject so I would not rant. The DM stated he could (technically) grant a character spellfire, but no DM ever has. I would need to state my case for why my character should have spell fire. Does anyone have a clue what could possibly be considered justification for a character getting spellfire? It is not like a diety grants spellfire to a character, unless your character becomes a chosen of Mystra. It seems to be something the character is born with, from what I have read in the FR Campaign Setting book. Thanks in advance.
Radijs 03-18-06, 02:12 PM	What do you mean exactly. If I recall correctly you just had to take a feat to be able to use spellfire.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-18-06, 02:15 PM	If I'm reading this correctly, this guy has gotten used to getting crunchy freebies for the way he writes backgrounds, and didn't this time... and now he's looking for some way to write out a "justification" for getting spellfire for free.
Radijs 03-18-06, 02:26 PM	I see. Only the sun comes up for free.
JBeauMI 03-18-06, 02:43 PM	Shaggy_Shaggs, If you cosider a couple skill points and appropriate equipment for the level and class of the character "crunchy", then you are on target. Otherwise, you are trolling. Radijs, I was as explicit as possible. Thanks for the sunshine.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-18-06, 03:11 PM	Shaggy_Shaggs, If you cosider a couple skill points and appropriate equipment for the level and class of the character "crunchy", then you are on target. I do. Crunch is the mechanical stuff such as skill points and object goodies. Fluff is the roleplay, description, background... the stuff you're trying to squeeze crunch out of. ;)
KublaiKhan 03-18-06, 03:16 PM	Rules as Written in the Core do not state that you get any sort of rewards for roleplaying -- other than the paragraph in the DMG which states that the DM has the option to give bonus xp for good roleplaying. Nowhere are skills, items, feats, or anything else mentioned. In the Rules of the Core, the only reward for roleplaying mentioned is xp. Anything else, take it up with your DM.
JBeauMI 03-18-06, 04:40 PM	So nobody knows that a DM is thinking when he says "you can have spellfire if you can justify having it." If that is NOT the topic of your reply, you are off topic.
Shaggy_Shaggs 03-18-06, 05:00 PM	Alright, fine. Does anyone have a clue what could possibly be considered justification for a character getting spellfire? Yes, I know. Meeting the requisites to get spellfire rather than trying to skirt around the rules and get it free, would certainly justify getting spellfire. Have a nice day. :)
Radijs 03-18-06, 05:05 PM	Well at the risk of being off-topic: JBeauMI, you need to work on your manners. You're snapping at the hand thats trying to give you advice. You'll catch more flies with honey then vinegar. And for the on-topic part: Its hard to say when something like that is justified as crunch squeezed out of fluff. Especially since none of us knows how your DM thinks and how he distributes these bonuses. (I'm still assuming you are given these bonuses outside of the standard process of character creation). The faerun campaign setting says that its bestowed on those few favoured by myrstra. So that would be one way.
SpellMaster 03-18-06, 05:59 PM	The feat specifically states that you must aquire DM permision to take it. I don't know a great way to justify the selection as I know far too little about the situation. In one of my games I had a player interested in spellfire wo came up with this. His character was a wanderer who was constantly hunted by orginizations and supersticious people once he's been found out. Spellfire was something he would use only in an emergency and even then only if there wasn't another option, so as to protect himself. Hope that helps get the creative juices flowing
ShadowDragon8685 03-18-06, 06:42 PM	My DM let me take it. Not even at 1st level, either. And my character hates Mystra, too. (She's all about Selune.) My advice? Stop asking for freebies, and if he still won't let you spend a feat at first level on Spellfire, scrap the character and wander on down to the Character Optimization boards to make him wish he had. Spellfire is one of those feats that falls under "DM's purview". However, when you get DMs who are reluctant to give the purview, I find it helpful to myself to repeat inwardly the mantra that my uncle used to convince reluctant and/or drunk soldiers to do their jobs: "I can't make you, but I can make you wish you had". Muah. Muahah. Muahahahaaahaa! :evillaugh
R2-DS 03-18-06, 06:53 PM	Having Dabbled in Spellfire back in my AD+D 2nd Ed. days I would offer this bit of advise. Save spellfire for a "solo" campaign where your character wont detract from the rest of your parties abilities. Theres nothing wrong with wanting it, but surely someone in your party will wish you didnt.
JBeauMI 03-19-06, 08:12 AM	Thank you all for your feedback. It just seemed like an odd thing for the DM to say, that a character could be granted spellfire if you can justify it. Spellfire seems powerful enough to unbalance a game, but if you show me a brass ring I will try to figure out how to reach it. Then I will determine if I want the ring. I appologize for getting everyone off topic in the beginning. The path that led to the question clearly distracted and detracted.
CriminalTruth 03-19-06, 03:15 PM	Spellfire is the WORST feat a DM could EVER allow a player to take. It's entirely over-balancing, and should be reserved only for NPC's With spellfire a 1st lvl char. could concievably take out a young dragon. Nuff said ( 18D6 that ignores SR ) this ability was def. made with the powergamer in mind.
Radijs 03-19-06, 05:32 PM	Doesn't the feat require you to ready an action to absorb a spell targeted at you? Sounds like something you're not going to do every round of combat. Sure you can ask the party wizard/sorceror to buff you up at the end of the day but a DM can easily prevent that trick by throwing a random encounter in after the wizard has gone through his spells.
20goingon1232 03-19-06, 06:09 PM	Spellfire is the WORST feat a DM could EVER allow a player to take. It's entirely over-balancing, and should be reserved only for NPC's With spellfire a 1st lvl char. could concievably take out a young dragon. Nuff said ( 18D6 that ignores SR ) this ability was def. made with the powergamer in mind. Incorrect. Getting that 18 points of spellfire is a challenge in itself for a 1st level party. Getting 18 Con is again a challenge in a point-buy scenario, even more so in a 4d6-l scenario. At higher levels, that 18d6 bolt of doom is a mere scratch and opens you up to everything else. Spellfire wielders are also hunted like dogs in Faerun. Given the extremely limited nature of the ability, I say that it is no more broken than Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Spiked Chain).
Berwick 03-19-06, 11:35 PM	I had a PC who was allowed Spellfire in one of my games once..... He also happened to be the most efficient rules lawyer that I have EVER seen... Whenever he pushed me with his awesome use of this stuff....it just challenged me to be a better DM! Ended up being one of my most favorite games ever! Hey, Spellfire has the oppertunity to SERIOUSLY crank up the power knob on a character...if you get it, understand it entirely before you use it! it is the atom bomb of FR. Berwick
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 02:08 AM	Incorrect. Getting that 18 points of spellfire is a challenge in itself for a 1st level party. Getting 18 Con is again a challenge in a point-buy scenario, even more so in a 4d6-l scenario. At higher levels, that 18d6 bolt of doom is a mere scratch and opens you up to everything else. Spellfire wielders are also hunted like dogs in Faerun. Given the extremely limited nature of the ability, I say that it is no more broken than Exotic Weapon Profficiency (Spiked Chain). umm 1st level mage with spell fire feat. 1 spell level a day, not counting bounus spells. average on this board for any ability score is 15 ok... 15d6 by day 15 even 5d6 at first level is to much and enough to annillate any CR. of 1 or even 3 get another spell caster in the party ( a cleric,sorc,wiz,druid,rog with UMD or bard, hirelings, Leadership feat ( if he allowed spell fire how couldn't he allow leadership? ) ) 1 domain spell plus 1 cleric spell ( high wisdom bonus ) plus 1 wizard spell per day is 3 or 4 levels a day. Heck you can just have spells cast on you at the end of the day before u prepare ur spells during rest ( even if you get ambushed you would have some of them back in ur spell list not to mention your spell fire ) The dm can't jump you EVERY NIGHT. oh... how about 1 level of rogue or bard and buy 1st level spells from scrolls for 25 GP each. EASILY ABUSED and EASILY over powered.... 18D6 is = to a 9th level spell ( firestorm is accually weaker ) it ignores SPELL RESISTANCE umm BROKEN The feat Itself admites to being broken by the very fact it says "you neeed dm permisstion" just to take it. I'm not aware of any other feats with that catch phrase
Radijs 03-20-06, 04:01 AM	A dm doesn't need to jump the players every night. Twice will do. By then the players will be paranoid enough that they won't drain the wizard anymore.
Craith 03-20-06, 08:53 AM	umm 1st level mage with spell fire feat. 1 spell level a day, not counting bounus spells. average on this board for any ability score is 15 ok... 15d6 by day 15 ...... You cant't absorb your own spells, you have to ready an action to absorb a spell.
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 09:17 AM	A dm doesn't need to jump the players every night. Twice will do. By then the players will be paranoid enough that they won't drain the wizard anymore. I'd keep at it.. or hire a rogue to do it with use magic device in a city.. and if a DM did it EVERY single time.. its not a very good DM cause that is an abuse of meta-gaming. trust me spell fire is entirely to powerful for a player in a game world. Unless ALL the chars had it..... now if all the chars had it thats a diffrent story... but spell fire just makes a player that much more compared to all other players. first is the amount of damange it can do ( who as a spell fire wielder isnt going to have a decent con score? ) and even at 10 its extreamly powerful ( better then a lightning bolt cast at 10th lvl considering it goes around SR ) and this is the power in the hands of a 1st lvl char? It sets the stage for once player to take control of the entire game. I've seen it happen way to often in way to many games.. The only way I could ever see this justified is if its in THE entire party and even then forget about ever throwing an evil wizard at the party ... Spell fire honestly belongs in story books or NPC's and honestly if a DM even uses it with an NPC's he's just asking for it cause in alot of ways it can make an NPC better than a PC.... One of my biggest pet peaves as a PLAYER and more importantly as a DM is when well planned things from PLAYERS never work out the way a player plans... i hate that more then anything, im not saying all plans should work but well thought out ones should at least have a chance and this just opens the way for that. or for having an NPC better then a PC. Or a PC having some unfair advantage over other players, or taking away from the speacil something that makes PC's speacil. spell-fire's game mechanics are not only over balancing in the game but the very feat itself is unbalancing to a game. except as how one other person said in a " one on one " game. because then your not taking away from other characters. i mean if you think about it .. if you have a 15 CON u can effectivly throw HIGHER than a 5th lvl spell ( it ignores spell resistance etc etc ) cone of cold does 15d6 flame strike does 15d6 and mages and clerics have to wait until WHAT LEVEL to be able to deal that type of damage 15th!!!? here a char can just take a feat at 1st level and deal that kind of damange and get a D12 for HD if they want.. ohhh... and its ranged.. a touch attack... ohh ignores spell resistance? not only that... if you think it makes you a " better dm" because now you have to taylor your adventures around ONE PC...... YOUR WRONG. It makes you a WORSE DM, because you ARE tayloring your adventure around ONE PC. If you are tayloring your games around to " beat" or " limit" spell-fire it makes you a horrible DM and show's that it REALLY IS unbalancing. ( example just jump them in the night so they dont boost him up ) that is unrealistic really.. IT REALLY IS... its poor Dming.... its a DM meta-gaming because he cant handle the situation.. a player with spell-fire. It just Prove's its unbalancing. Using clerics and wizards in an encounter to " buff up " other villians is poor dming when they would have fire-ball at their disposal... i mean really why wouldnt the wizard cast it at the party? it would have NO IDEA about the spell-fire. so now what you have is a dm tayloring his campain around one person ... the person with spell-fire... even if that person " only will use it in defense " ... nope... unbalancing in more ways the one... I offered THIS to ONE player for spell fire.. and HE TURNED IT DOWN i said he can absorb up to his CON MOD. in spells ( accually makes more sense ) i said he can release 1d6 at a time no more then 1d6 ranged touch or 1d6 healing. can not absorb higher then a 2nd level spell. to me that seems pretty amazing just as a feat...... accually just being able to absorb SPELLS is an amazing feat in D&D let alone being able to throw it back.... if you want a balanced type of spell-fire character? PLAY A SPELL THEIF ... AND JUST FORGET ABOUT SPELL-FIRE THE FEAT!!!
Otto the Bugbear 03-20-06, 09:21 AM	If this were actually the most awesomest, powerfulest, uberest, game killing thing a PC could possibly take, it would be all over the C.O. board. It is not all over the C.O. board. Remember, the C.O. board isn't just for players. DMs should also use it (and many do) to be aware of potential problem areas for their game. Connect the dots from there. Cheers Otto :)
CriminalTruth 03-20-06, 09:27 AM	I honestly believe it is the most uber awsome feat if a DM runs a game not to account for it. and if you have to run a game to account for one stupid feat its a horrible game to begin with.... what are you going to build a villian with +40 to escape artist to get away from the monk +40 SR to get away from the wizard + 48297492 AC to account for the fighters give him spell fire to account for the Spell fire person . are you getting the hint? games shouldn't work like that. Players shouldn't be able to do things other players don't have an opportunity to do or have compareable skills for what class they are. Its not fair to other players, It's not good for a game world. Period.
ShadowDragon8685 03-20-06, 09:44 AM	If it's not for players to take, it should be removed from the rulebooks. There's no point in having it if you don't let players take it, and it's considerably worse than not having it if you don't let the PCs take it, but you have a habit of giving it to your NPCs.
Senevri 03-20-06, 10:47 AM	Not a terribly fun feat, really... Sure, it's powerful. It also allows a character to outshine all others in combat, at least early on, yes. Not terribly fun with any tactical combat focus. (still, the awesome power of "sleep" spell on first level...) However, it's specifically for Forgotten Realms campaign setting. Which has certain implications: - Depending on how they determine the PC's moral value, NPCs such as Elminster, Khelben Arunsun and others (Manshoon comes to mind), will be out to ... neutralize your potential threat. Yes, it's the FR equivalent of a nuclear bomb, and the PC can be expected to be treated as someone lugging 'round a nuclear bomb. Just my thoughts. Any feat removed from context can get rather nuts. Well, maybe no "Skill Focus"...