Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mattarias 02-12-07, 09:47 PM	Is it just me, or is it kinda creepy to be stripping things of their clothes and stuff after killing/knocking them unconscious? I can't speak much for anyone else, but the most my character does is steal their wallets, as payment for "ruining his shirt". (my poor shirt. it's so hard to get stains out of pink! TT.TT) does anybody else do this kind of thing? if so, how do you justify it in-game? (on a silly sidenote, our NG, leaning toward LG cleric of pelor is usually the one going "loot the bodies, loot the bodies!" XD alignment change, anyone?)
Hack and Smasher 02-12-07, 10:01 PM	Simple if you left it there it would be found and used by something else, just a matter of praticality really. Also its profitable.
Mattarias 02-12-07, 10:05 PM	Simple if you left it there it would be found and used by something else, just a matter of praticality really. Also its profitable. good point, but what if you only knocked an enemy to unconsciousness? they're gonna wake back up, usually. it'll be kinda akward when they do and find their stuff all missing. :\
Nathreet 02-12-07, 10:05 PM	Yeah, it is. But nobody RP's it much. I'd imagine 1st level characters should RP it more, while higher level characters would be used to it. The old LG cleric might say, "Sigh... another day, another body. Time to put this heathen's treasure to good use."
Callista 02-12-07, 10:07 PM	Nah, NG will loot bodies of enemies. LG, even, most of the time; I guess the code of honor could get in the way depending on its specific terms, but that's up to the player and DM. Anyway, looting the bodies?--Spoils of war. They attacked you (or you rightly attacked them), you killed them, so you get what they were carrying. You're not bandits unless you killed them just so you could loot them. The only exception I can see is for things they stole. Those, your party should return (and hope for a reward).
Artector 02-12-07, 10:07 PM	A good 90% of the time they're dead, what do they need it for? Fund the cause of good with the goodies of the enemy. A fair number of the characters I make don't care too much, I'd rather not be a greedy bastard.
Callista 02-12-07, 10:07 PM	good point, but what if you only knocked an enemy to unconsciousness? they're gonna wake back up, usually. it'll be kinda akward when they do and find their stuff all missing. :\Well, you're leaving them with their clothes, right? That's more than they deserve, usually.
allenchan 02-12-07, 10:09 PM	Its not evil nor chaotic to take on something that is going to waste. A LG reason might be "This tool shall help me enforce the laws justice and uphold the ideals of good. With this artifact in my possession, I can assure it will not be used for wickedness." If you want a real-life comparions people loot bodies in military conflicts all the time. Just in WW2 it saw plenty of thefts of katanas and lugers (from japanese and german militarymen, respectively). Now just imagine in those were +5 Lugers of Seeking.
Mattarias 02-12-07, 10:17 PM	Well, you're leaving them with their clothes, right? That's more than they deserve, usually. well, we're only level 3-ish, so we're not fighting like, baby-eaters, or stuff like that. at evilest, we've been facing thieves and members of an apparently evil guild.. "scarshadows", or something. O.o' i doubt we should be -that- harsh..
Insane Pixie 02-12-07, 10:36 PM	Stripping your fallen enemies of their clothes? Sounds like Elder Scrolls, not D&D. :P Really, though, stuff like that has never come up in any games I've ever been in (unless of course it was something like a magic robe or armor).
Callista 02-12-07, 10:42 PM	Hmm... Leaving fallen enemies with food enough to get to the next town, and taking weapons and armor... That's pretty merciful. But if you don't want to kill them, then why let them die of starvation?
Salla 02-12-07, 10:43 PM	I agree with Spoils of War. If the opponent is just KOed, odds are you did it for a reason (that reason being that you didn't want to kill him), and whether or not you take his stuff depends on why. Mind controlled friend attacking you? He keeps his stuff. Wanted alive for questioning in a criminal matter? Take his stuff ... if he's found innocent, though, be prepared to return it. If you kill someone, though, there's no reason not to take anything you might find useful, within the limits of carrying capacity and whatever might offend you (see: Hand of Glory).
Mattarias 02-12-07, 10:58 PM	Stripping your fallen enemies of their clothes? Sounds like Elder Scrolls, not D&D. :P Really, though, stuff like that has never come up in any games I've ever been in (unless of course it was something like a magic robe or armor). i believe you misinterpreted, i was just giving that as an example of taking valued possessions of your enemies.. ^^; clothes are pretty valuable.
Vaelan 02-12-07, 11:04 PM	on a silly sidenote, our NG, leaning toward LG cleric of pelor is usually the one going "loot the bodies, loot the bodies!" XD alignment change, anyone? Cite something in the alignment portion of the PHB that could even remotely suggest that taking somebody's stuff after you have killed them (presumably for good reason) violates any alignment. You won't find any. Just because you think something is "creepy" doesn't mean it is associated with whatever alignment you are choosing to malign today.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 02-12-07, 11:18 PM	In reading the Iliad and the Odyssey, it was fairly common practice for someone to strip those they defeated of their gear. In the middle ages it was considered customary that the winner of a joust or other tournement gained posession of the losers stuff. OTOH, IIRC, the Japanese find it disgraceful to touch the dead, so that prevents looting.
kelvinaw273 02-12-07, 11:20 PM	Medieval Europs had the tradition of a knight bested loses his gear (or money to the value of it) to anyone who beat him fairly. This included killing him. Looting one's enemies is not macabre in these circumstances. Looting one's friends is!
Salla 02-12-07, 11:23 PM	OTOH, IIRC, the Japanese find it disgraceful to touch the dead, so that prevents looting. This, of course, is why I always play a Nezumi in OA. Looting the body? No problem! :D
Dag 02-12-07, 11:32 PM	Last good aligned cleric I played with had no problems with looting (Nor do I think that good aligned characters should) he did have a real problem with leaving the dead, even the dead of our evil enemies without proper last rights. He believed that all of the dead deserved respect and a blessing from his deity (I belive that his character personally felt that by giving them this blessing it offered the dead one last chance to accept redemption even if they did not seek it during life). I would have preferred that he had a problem with looting, that would have been less work for our group. He always had us digging graves, building pyres or cairns, but his beliefs and committment to good I think won him a lot of respect from the party, and though he was the least vocal of the group he sort of became the party leader because of his morality (Obviously it was an all good-aligned party).
mkill 02-13-07, 12:08 AM	"Killing people and taking their stuff" has always been the standard practice in any D&D game. As silly as it is, the whole character advancement revolves around getting tougher for putting sharp metal objects in squishy things, and looting the bodies. 3rd edition finally acknowledged this by giving wealth per lvel guidelines, so you know how much you need to steal from dead people monsters to keep up with the Joneses.
Krusk 02-13-07, 12:23 AM	I figure if your burying the bodies anyway, and you dont know the people why not grab that sword? he isnt using it. of course if your group just kills the goblins, and lets them lay while you make camp thats sort of morbid.
BalobianKnight 02-13-07, 01:25 AM	the first game i played in we had a LN scout who wouldn't waste her time searchinn their belongings after the battle against an enemy army squad she striped them naked took everything and when we were out of the battle zone sat down with my CN rogue and we searched every piece of clothing carefully for valubles and rank ensignia (to id them to her commander) so under certain conditions taking the clothes is a good thing (btw that same rogue had a habit of gutting larger foes after death to search their stomache contents, "ogres are stupid enough to swallow a finger with the ring still on it")
Drag0nUL 02-13-07, 04:40 AM	I see the problem here as a bit deeper, especially when a good cleric is involved. A good cleric should take care of the dead according to the rites of his religion, right? If this involves entombing/burning/whatever the dead with their belongings, this severely limits the party's wealth. If his religion says nothing about the dead person's belongings, this means there is no problem stripping fallen comrades of their valuables. Ant this leads in time to significant wealth boosts.
towerwrath 02-13-07, 07:52 AM	Looting one's enemies is not macabre in these circumstances. Looting one's friends is! Indeed, however when a friend has died and you are running out of amo and he has some...... I figure the same rule applies to that ring of protection +3 he had. Presumably.
Tyler Do'Urden 02-13-07, 09:00 AM	Is it just me, or is it kinda creepy to be stripping things of their clothes and stuff after killing/knocking them unconscious?In a real world setting, it might be a little creepy. But realize also that in a real world setting, there's police, and armies, and no monsters left in the world that you can just openly kill with no questions asked. Even hunters need permits. In a more or less lawless environment (i.e. the wilderness of a fantasy setting), if someone tries to kill you and you kill them, taking their stuff is just sensible. Those are free resources for you; he's not gonna be needing 'em where he's going. Whaddya gonna do, bury it? You're probably not even going to bother burying the guy that just tried to kill you unless you have access to move earth. No, you take anything he has that is useful to you and easy to carry and you go about your day.
Bob Loblaw 02-13-07, 10:43 AM	I think Blade may put it best in the first movie: "This ain't exactly the March of Dimes."
Archangel62 02-13-07, 10:48 AM	I remember a player mentioning it in character, the response was, "I think civility and social niceties went out the window around the same time that blood started spilling." Also, during the first and second world war prisoners were routinely robbed of personal posssessions and weaponry.
mlund 02-13-07, 01:40 PM	Looting bodies depends on context. Looting the guy you just knocked out in a tavern brawl is generally considered criminal theft. Looting the remains of the village-ravaging bandits you just annihilated is considered to be the spoils of war and right of the victor. Generally if someone is committing life-threatening criminal trespass against you and you thug them out in the medieval setting, you've got some common-law right to their stuff. Magistrates in more orderly areas might enforce overriding edicts. Certain organizations may take exception to looting their defeated membership in a case where just a beat-down wouldn't inspire such a grudge (see Thieves' Guilds). - Marty Lund
Callista 02-13-07, 02:28 PM	I see the problem here as a bit deeper, especially when a good cleric is involved. A good cleric should take care of the dead according to the rites of his religion, right? If this involves entombing/burning/whatever the dead with their belongings, this severely limits the party's wealth. If his religion says nothing about the dead person's belongings, this means there is no problem stripping fallen comrades of their valuables. Ant this leads in time to significant wealth boosts. There's a pretty simple solution to a cleric like that. The player talks to the DM; the DM makes sure the player stays up to standard wealth. If a DM's involved, there's lots of ways to make sure the cleric gets the stuff he needs--he can find valuables or loot an armory or be given rewards or items by patrons. Clerics are usually part of orders of priests (and the ones lawful enough to take care of dead enemies are almost certainly worshipping deities that tend towards organization), so they can even get a portion of the church's tithe money for their quests. As a DM I'd never hold a player back for role-playing something like that. It just discourages RP and makes the game slide towards mindless hacking. By the way, most clerics can get away with just praying over enemy dead, or if there's time, burning or burying them. Taking their equipment isn't dishonoring them near as much as refusing to do whatever simple rites the cleric has been taught to use in the battlefield; and praying has a practical purpose in decreasing the likelihood of return as restless undead.
DoctorRomulus 02-13-07, 04:19 PM	Well, you're leaving them with their clothes, right? That's more than they deserve, usually. Back in the old days of AD&D 2nd edition it became the trade mark of our party to leave our defeated opponents usually Zhentarim troops in their underwear. We usually tried not to kill them so they’d remember the experience. :D :D
CaoSlayer 02-13-07, 04:28 PM	The main reason for looting are two: a)You arent going to leave behind such powerful weaponry or magic items so a evil doer or a corpse looter gets it and use it for evil deeds. b)That stuff is worth throusand gold, no sane man would not want to get it and sell it. lawful good dudes uses reason a, the others use reason b. I can bet that ever a vow of poverty character loots the corpses because with the gold you get you can feed a lot of poor men. Is like invading iraq and not taking the oil.
Boraxe 02-13-07, 05:20 PM	good point, but what if you only knocked an enemy to unconsciousness? they're gonna wake back up, usually. it'll be kinda akward when they do and find their stuff all missing. :\ It is far more awkward to leave a downed foe alive. The first order of business following combat is always to make sure every last stinking enemy is dead, Dead, DEAD. The cutting of throats always precedes corpse-looting.
danielinthewolvesden 02-13-07, 06:46 PM	good point, but what if you only knocked an enemy to unconsciousness? they're gonna wake back up, usually. it'll be kinda akward when they do and find their stuff all missing. :\ Well, if you can justify using force on them in the first place, you can justify removing their weapons and such so they will be less of a danger.
Jagyr Ebonwood 02-13-07, 07:08 PM	It's like invading iraq and not taking the oil. :rofl:
Artector 02-13-07, 08:25 PM	:rofl: Same reaction.
Mattarias 02-13-07, 10:40 PM	It is far more awkward to leave a downed foe alive. The first order of business following combat is always to make sure every last stinking enemy is dead, Dead, DEAD. The cutting of throats always precedes corpse-looting. O.o; isn't that kinda evil, though...? Well, if you can justify using force on them in the first place, you can justify removing their weapons and such so they will be less of a danger. i guess that makes sense, but using force is justified in that you fight back as to not die. looting the bodies after you've reduced someone to -1 hp seems to be kinda adding insult to injury, non..?
Yeti9944 02-14-07, 12:38 AM	the answer is so simple get them to -10 then strip the limbs and keep the bones and leave everything else
Boraxe 02-14-07, 12:39 PM	O.o; isn't that kinda evil, though...? How is it evil to finish off an injured enemy but not to give him the huge gaping wound that caused his suffering to start with?
Mattarias 02-14-07, 08:34 PM	How is it evil to finish off an injured enemy but not to give him the huge gaping wound that caused his suffering to start with? the wound would be self-defense. finishing them off'd be overkill. O.o;; 'least in my opinion..
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-14-07, 09:03 PM	the wound would be self-defense. finishing them off'd be overkill. O.o;; 'least in my opinion.. So, giving someone who's going to die anyways a quick, relatively painless death is evil, while letting them suffer unimaginable agony for quite awhile before succumbing is not?
Mattarias 02-14-07, 10:26 PM	So, giving someone who's going to die anyways a quick, relatively painless death is evil, while letting them suffer unimaginable agony for quite awhile before succumbing is not? well, they'd be unconscious, not to mention, they could recover from the pain. but back to the main point; any reasons to do so other than "it makes sense"?
Stormbrand 02-14-07, 11:04 PM	Let me just say this is a very entertaining thread. Looting corpses is only icky for a civilian. For a warrior, this is just order of business. Pillaging the dead is no different to the business of making the dead. Medieval Europs had the tradition of a knight bested loses his gear (or money to the value of it) to anyone who beat him fairly. This included killing him. Looting one's enemies is not macabre in these circumstances. Looting one's friends is! :heehee I figure if your burying the bodies anyway, and you dont know the people why not grab that sword? he isnt using it. of course if your group just kills the goblins, and lets them lay while you make camp thats sort of morbid. :heehee Cheers Krusk, that is actually quite helpful. I was looking for ways to highlight the unsquemishness of a certain paladin of mine. That should do it nicely. the first game i played in we had a LN scout who wouldn't waste her time searchinn their belongings after the battle against an enemy army squad she striped them naked took everything and when we were out of the battle zone sat down with my CN rogue and we searched every piece of clothing carefully for valubles and rank ensignia (to id them to her commander) so under certain conditions taking the clothes is a good thing (btw that same rogue had a habit of gutting larger foes after death to search their stomache contents, "ogres are stupid enough to swallow a finger with the ring still on it") Gods that is creative. Eviscerations for fun and profit. I remember a player mentioning it in character, the response was, "I think civility and social niceties went out the window around the same time that blood started spilling." Also, during the first and second world war prisoners were routinely robbed of personal posssessions and weaponry. Excellent point. The moment drawn weapons get involved, different rules apply. O.o; isn't that kinda evil, though...? Only if killing them full stop is evil. CdG (or simple cut with Power Attack 5 for my paranoid paladin) is perfectly valid if you can justify the objective of killing them. Most fallen foes recieved extra shots for certainty, if circumstances were different he would stop to stablize them. My paladin's justification for this habit was "If they attacked me, they would attack someone else. Maybe someone who cannot fight back." Detect Evil first helped this argument.
LCD2YOU 02-14-07, 11:14 PM	If your PC had just cause to put their foe in a world of hurt to begin with, then finishing them off with a quick and painless stroke and then looting their bodies afterward are just part of the same business. It is what it is. Today that may seem like bad news but it is what they did. It's the same as the difference between a grave site and an archeological dig: 500 years.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-14-07, 11:25 PM	well, they'd be unconscious, not to mention, they could recover from the pain. No, they're gonna die. You get in the negatives and you aren't getting out without assistance. There's generally only a several hp window, and with the 10% stabilization chance, they're doomed. but back to the main point; any reasons to do so other than "it makes sense"? They ain't using it. Any reasons not to loot the bodies?
allenchan 02-15-07, 01:17 AM	No, they're gonna die. You get in the negatives and you aren't getting out without assistance. There's generally only a several hp window, and with the 10% stabilization chance, they're doomed. In a real world where any serious would resulted in painful, slow death from infections, etc, its true, coup de graces were a good thing. However, this is a world of magic and the heal check. ANYBODY can make a heal check dc 15, and what moderately leveled divine caster doesnt have a few cure minors that would just be going to waste? It only takes a standard action to save someone's life in dnd, but a full-round action to coup de grace them.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-15-07, 01:47 AM	In a real world where any serious would resulted in painful, slow death from infections, etc, its true, coup de graces were a good thing. However, this is a world of magic and the heal check. ANYBODY can make a heal check dc 15, and what moderately leveled divine caster doesnt have a few cure minors that would just be going to waste? It only takes a standard action to save someone's life in dnd, but a full-round action to coup de grace them. And who's going to save their lives? You sure aren't.
Krusk 02-15-07, 02:04 AM	im more towards the finishing off the wounded, so they dont suffer line of thought. either i let them lay there with huge gashes in the middle of the woods alone where if they do survive they kill me later, or i finish them now.
ressurrector 02-15-07, 02:53 AM	my group not only finishesoff every enemy, they sometimes skin them for magical tattoos... Sometimes I worrry about the people I play with.
Boraxe 02-15-07, 10:33 AM	the wound would be self-defense. finishing them off'd be overkill. O.o;; Nah, it's just-enough kill.
Limousine_Liberal 02-15-07, 02:40 PM	Looting enemies is very easy to justify. What I have more difficulty with is the killing and looting of hired/charmed/dominated guards being used by the enemy or looting the bodies of innocents who happen to die in the crossfire (most of our adventures are in the city, and our DM uses rules that allow for "misses" to accidentally hit random, nearby NPCs). They ain't using it. Any reasons not to loot the bodies? Just because someone is dead doesn't mean that his or her equipment is "unowned." To my knowledge there has never been a law that gives a killer the right to claim his victim's possessions. (That would set up a perverse incentive to go around killing people...hmmm...just like in D&D.) Even if the victim were a criminal--which is not always the case in D&D, his or her killer doesn't get dibs on his stuff. Either it goes to the dead person's heirs, his relatives if he dies intestate, or it all escheats to the state or local government.
Selgard 02-15-07, 03:47 PM	Escheat, eh? There's a fancy word i'd not thought to hear/see on the boards :> In the end, it all depends on you, your character, the DM, and the campaign. If you and the others want a campaign where you don't loot the bodies, the DM needs to take that into consideration through bounties or gifts or payments from some source such that the party is still fairly recompensed for their hard work. If you and the others want a campaign where you kill the foe and loot their gear, then the aforementioned bounties/payments/gifts should be more of a rarity. My $.02 anyway.
Limousine_Liberal 02-15-07, 04:32 PM	Escheat, eh? There's a fancy word i'd not thought to hear/see on the boards :> In the end, it all depends on you, your character, the DM, and the campaign. If you and the others want a campaign where you don't loot the bodies, the DM needs to take that into consideration through bounties or gifts or payments from some source such that the party is still fairly recompensed for their hard work. If you and the others want a campaign where you kill the foe and loot their gear, then the aforementioned bounties/payments/gifts should be more of a rarity. My $.02 anyway. I agree. In fact, I feel that if a character decides not to loot bodies (for roleplaying reasons--say a paladin who finds looting the dead to be akin to stealing) when it *is* otherwise acceptable to do so, that the DM should find a workaround for those players. That's more work for the DM, but the DM shouldn't *require* players to loot the dead in order to remain competitive...at least not where the player has a good reason for not doing so. (If the player fails to loot bodies because "I don't wanna be encumbered by all that crap", then I suppose that's different.)
Mattarias 02-15-07, 09:28 PM	i agree with Liberal (go figure). just 'cause you kill someone, that doesn't really give you dibs on his fancy stuff. though frankly, my character's not lawful enough to just give stuff up to the government.. :\ hmm.. still, CdG is kinda ick, as well. it sounds more like "oh, hey, they're dead. .. KILL THEM MORE!" kinda barbaric, if you ask me.. (-not to mention, blood is terribly hard to get out of clothes. :P)
Manic Man 02-16-07, 02:06 AM	A LG reason might be "This tool shall help me enforce the laws justice and uphold the ideals of good. With this artifact in my possession, I can assure it will not be used for wickedness."[/I]. Yeah when said artifact is a goblin steel sword or some stinky kobold leather armor. :D
wizarddog 02-16-07, 03:20 AM	Back in the early days of D&D you fought mostly monsters (and drow) which by Player character standards are not considered "people". So looting their bodies didn't matter much cause you were not killing your on race. I notice in the later additions fighting other humans and other character races had become more common which now creates this issue. BUT we should remember not to place 21st century values in a world that is 10th-12th century culture. Life is cheap but equiptment is not so it makes perfect sense that the slaying of another-regardless of alighnment allows for the taking of their loot. wizarddog
seldom_seen 02-16-07, 11:37 AM	A similar thread was just going about the ethics of stripping dead (and unable ro be raised or resurrected) party members. Most of those threads seemed to feel little remorse in stripping former team members of their stuff upon their demise. How can it be a problem stripping a total stranger of his gear upon his vanquishment? That's one of the primary means of aquiring new and more powerful weapons, items, and armor. Now, I'm not advocating traipsing through town, blighthly slaying all whom you encounter in order to plunder their rapidly cooling corpses. The town guard tends to frown on that sort of behavior. However, during regular game play, I see nothing wrong with plundering your defeated foes. To the victor goes the spoils.