Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonspirit 08-03-05, 04:53 PM	Very simply, how do you keep players from taking all the wealth from one of their dead companions? This is a problem I've never been able to resolve satisfactory. It often imbalances the treasure level of the looter, and has always struck me as very bad roleplaying. In addition, it's hard to prevent when the players make a pact to do so. :tantrum: So the wealth level of the party goes up each time a character dies and a new one comes in (as it would be total metagaming on my part to disallow a new character from entering the game with wealth). And methods like Disjunction, thief steals it in the night, etc come off as cliche and campy, or sometimes outright unfair (the non-looter is up to being punished, etc). It's especially bad when the character has a coveted and universal item, like say a gloves of dexterity or a boots of haste. All the characters are good aligned btw. But having the Gods strip them of power or bashing them over the head with alignment seems harsh too. And it just gets exponentially more problematic the higher the group has gotten in level.
Kikoskia 08-03-05, 04:58 PM	Nothing like setting up a little scenario from it. So, your first guy dies. They bury him, loot him and set up camp to sleep... and get jumped. Cue awaking in a bandit camp somewhere in the woods, unarmed and unarmoured, totally itemsless. All thier items in a storeroom... MINUS the items the other character had. If you set up the loss of the items as logical occurances, then this is perfectly reasonable. Also, bear in mind characters can have wills. Make sure this will is held by more then the PC. If the party refuse to hand over what the will demands to the people it demads, then they get into trouble with the law.
Ut-Napishtim 08-03-05, 05:15 PM	Yeah, a couple things that keep this from happening a lot in my games is that for one if someone has that many magic items (more than 10k worth) then they can be sold to allow the character to be raised. Ergo, the character should be being raised - especially if these guys are supposedly good (unless you're one of those crazy DM's that think the 6K and negative level folks get from Raise Dead is just going too easy on them and thus have removed it from your games.) For another most people have families. When someone's character dies that can't be raised a next of kin will show up for his gear, usually allowing the party to keep a couple things if they're civil about it. If your folks are stripping PC's with 30k worth of gear and not even considering raising them or notifying the NOK they should be looking at some serious lawsuits from the dead PC's families. Best case scenario they can settle out of court for 15k (what the gear could be sold for realistically,) or worst case they forfeit the gear by court order (becoming outlaws if they refuse.)
NinjaE 08-03-05, 05:15 PM	Well, lotsa ways to make the chars stuff unusable, like... Rust monsters Disintegration MDJ Incineration(He's a piece of molten slag... Look on the bright side; no cremation fee!) Acid/lava/fire lakes Consumption(*CHOMP!*) Antimagic field+chasm Dragon(Oh, there're big holes in that. And that. That, too.) Compression(Read; big rock, meet PC. PC, meet big rock) Floors that only work for living beings(BBEG's nemesis specializes in constructs) Aerial battles
Dragonspirit 08-03-05, 05:28 PM	Kiko & Ut-Nap: The problem is, though, how are the relatives of the NPC going to know? Especially since a few months in game time could comprise many sessions of the game where the player is significantly overpowered. What's more, the PCs themselves see a benefit in 'willing' their items to their group mates, because most of the time that is going to mean more money for them. And if I tell them they can't, it's cries that I can't tell them how to play their characters. Thus, my frustration. :) NinjaE: Yeah, that's kind of what I've done at times. Either that or low balling their future treasure until they catch up following said looting to a more appropriate treasure level. What's bad is that often when you put a rust monster or whatever out there, the one that gets his gear consumed isn't the one who took the stuff.
NinjaE 08-03-05, 05:40 PM	Well, I wasn't intending them to survive the rust monster(or the other stuff). Say, the monster manages to kill one of them, and, seeing as it's very hungry, begins devouring his gear. Likewise with the dragon(well, Joe, as you can see, there're some pretty big holes in what's left of Jacks über-armour. Having it repaired would probably cost about what all the rest of Jacks stuff, as well as you own armour, would be sold for on the free market.) Stuff like that.
Ut-Napishtim 08-03-05, 05:57 PM	That's a tough one. Most of my games are episodic so the PC's rest up and enjoy their loot in town between games. Still, a will must be prepared by an attorney - which will cost money (IIRC they have rates in the DMG,) and most will question the items not going to family. Blood is thicker than water, and the lawyer will probably charge extra for being a party to what he feels are 'shady dealings.' If they've got some scrawlings on the back of a tavern napkin that say: Geerou gets my greatsword. it won't hold up in court against blood relatives. Of course if your party Rogue is good at forgery they could make it look official on the cheap - but if they get caught (these are good guys, right?) that kind of fraud could get them all in some serious trouble. They could also make the napkin hold up in court by hiring a good attorney and dishing out some serious bribes - but in the end they'll still have to pay thousands for the stuff. Also, I know that probably doesn't help you much - but you could change how you're bringing in new characters. Normally with me starting characters only get the average between PC and NPC wealth/level - and come in at two levels below the highest in the party, or at the lowest level in the party if it's lower than that. So in a game of 8th and 9th level characters replacements would come in at 7th, in a game of 5th to 9th level characters, replacments would come in at 5th.
CaviosDaryll 08-03-05, 06:46 PM	Well... since you said they are all Good, I must ask this, are they all Lawful Good? If they are Lawful Good, then they probably will have morals and would definitely give the equipment to the family. If they are not Lawful Good, then there is a bit of a problem. But even if they insist on looting their own partymember and friend's corpse even if they are Lawful Good, you can threaten to change their allignment. I say this because to me raiding somebody's dead body doesn't seem like a Lawful Good Act...
Justisaur 08-03-05, 06:58 PM	You can also mitigate this one of two other ways (Evil DM Smile). New character gets no equipment - except maybe some mundane junk or standard NPC gear for thier class depending how evil you are feeling at the moment. (Even Nastier DM Smile) or they can bring new characters in at 1st lv, with standar gear for it. Both of these have the added bonus of giving the player incentive to have his character raised/reincarnated/whatever. If you like the idea of giving the dead character's equipment back to the family, you could make a rule that thier new character gets the value of the items so returned for his new character. - Justisaur
Nor'Morgwae 08-03-05, 07:51 PM	I like Justisaur's last suggestion. I have considered doing that in my game with a few changes. I am thinking of making the rule that the amount of equipment a new character has is decided by how much he was burried with. SO if all of his stuff is buried with him he should come in with full equipment for his level. If only helf his stuff goes to his grave then the new character gets only 50% of what he would otherwise have. These practices also explain why there are all of those ancient loot filled tombs D&D is so famous for. Feel free to use Curses liberally for graverobbing and theft from the dead.
celtredleg 08-03-05, 09:10 PM	I have never killed off so many PCs in a limited amount of time for this to be a problem. However, anything you do to a party to trim down exccess magic items normaly will work here. Most of these have been mentioned above.
derfenrirwolv 08-03-05, 09:50 PM	if the party gets beyond the standard wealth per level thing, simply put them through a series of money loosing encounters, wild animals, roaming monsters, too well hidden treasure, or what have you.
Otto the Bugbear 08-03-05, 10:16 PM	I've only ever found one way that works out, and that was as a player. I played a cleric of Kelemvor who found it disgraceful to loot dead friends. He woundn't allow the party to either. After all, he who controls the healing, controls the party. ;) j/k. Actually, I managed to convert 4/5 of the remaining party to worship Kelemvor also, so after a time there was almost no arguement. Only the silly elven rogue ever caused problems. As for being a DM with that problem. Start with having random equipment being lost due to the massive amount of damage the character took in the fight to the end. The other is to give encounters with no or little loot until it's balanced out for their level. Cheers Otto :)
Dunelord 08-03-05, 10:22 PM	I agree with derfenrirwolv, just send them into spots that don't gain much treasure until they are all caught up. Anything else is proably going to seem either silly or stupid. I mean why would a lawyer give a damn who you leave your stuff too? And a will won't help too much if they are shady about giving things up since if you leave your +3 longsword and boots of haste to your brother, that will do nothing for the other 4 magic items you picked up since last time you updated with your will.
pres_man 08-03-05, 10:44 PM	The best way to deal with this is to tell the players, "If you loot peoples bodies, I have to decrease the amount of gear their new character starts with to maintain the balance." Basically you do not want to create a situation where PCs could die "accidently" and keep increasing the party wealth. There is nothing wrong with taking some gear to carry on the fight, but if they are only going to take the gear to sell it, I would say that is in bad taste, especially from certain alignments. Think of the fall of Boromir in the Fellowship. Strider took his bracers but put his weapons and horn in the boat with him. He didn't "loot" Boromir, he took items he could use and would remind him of his fallen friend. Personally, for my own characters I keep a "will" of items that I want my character buried with and items that I want the party to take and use. Oh yeah, and the treasureless encounters are good ideas too. I don't like the stealing items ideas, too contrived. Also it is not anymore metagaming to start a new PC with less wealth, then it is to start them with the exact wealth for that level.
WizardlyFriend 08-03-05, 10:45 PM	um id assume the DM would say that you guys wouldn't do something that bad. the player probably has a will. there is probably some stuff for you since you guys were his firesnd (unless you are level 1) and the rest is probably for his family and such
20goingon1232 08-03-05, 10:59 PM	Very simply, how do you keep players from taking all the wealth from one of their dead companions? This is a problem I've never been able to resolve satisfactory. It often imbalances the treasure level of the looter, and has always struck me as very bad roleplaying. In addition, it's hard to prevent when the players make a pact to do so. :tantrum: So the wealth level of the party goes up each time a character dies and a new one comes in (as it would be total metagaming on my part to disallow a new character from entering the game with wealth). And methods like Disjunction, thief steals it in the night, etc come off as cliche and campy, or sometimes outright unfair (the non-looter is up to being punished, etc). It's especially bad when the character has a coveted and universal item, like say a gloves of dexterity or a boots of haste. All the characters are good aligned btw. But having the Gods strip them of power or bashing them over the head with alignment seems harsh too. And it just gets exponentially more problematic the higher the group has gotten in level. The DMG handles this issue. It is pretty much: If the newcomer can use the gear the old one left behind, the newcomer comes with no gear. If not, then you halve the gear value of the old char and let him buy new gear with the difference between the recommended value and that value. It is a lot more generous than what I usually do (no gear at all or with a few appropriate to their class mundane armour/weapons). My party knows that it is in their best interest to fully equip their new friend. Otherwise, the next encounter might be just a tad too difficult for them to handle (since they are down an effective PC). They also know that I have an unspoken rule of making it up to them for the temporary loss of personal wealth.
Traevanon 08-03-05, 11:19 PM	I equip new characters based on the NPC wealth per level chart, rather than the PC version, after all, they were an NPC up to this point right? This level gives them just about enough to get going, but not enough that if they die after one session the party will overflow with new items for free. Over the course of the next few sessions I secretly boost the treasure content aimed at the newbie until they are fully integrated.
Red_Bird_of_Chaos 08-03-05, 11:25 PM	even if a pc meant to give away his items to the party his spirit might have grown especially attached to those items. so it rises as some sort of powerfull undead and searches for those items , willing to kill anyone it has to to get them back and finally be able to rest. throw that at them a few times and maybe they'll have more respect for the dead. :)
Seraph of Babel 08-03-05, 11:38 PM	IMC, all characters have wills or sort. So a dead PC's/cohort's equipment should be returned/given to his family, or church, or charity organization. If the PCs choose to loot a dead PC/cohort, the PCs involved move closer towards evil. (I have a simple alignment tracking system.) Furthermore, depending on how much they loot, I may ask the looters to do a character wealth audit. If their total character wealth exceeds what is mentioned in the DMG by 2 levels or more, I'd give them an ad hoc LA adjustment for being over-equipped.
WizardlyFriend 08-03-05, 11:40 PM	IMC, all characters have wills or sort. So a dead PC's/cohort's equipment should be returned/given to his family, or church, or charity organization. If the PCs choose to loot a dead PC/cohort, the PCs involved move closer towards evil. (I have a simple alignment tracking system.) Furthermore, depending on how much they loot, I may ask the looters to do a character wealth audit. If their total character wealth exceeds what is mentioned in the DMG by 2 levels or more, I'd give them an ad hoc LA adjustment for being over-equipped. powreful PCs have powerful friends and probably rich families. sure some will go to the PCs how could he forget his adventuring friends, but family and chruch come first and like in real life, when people don't get their **** they are ****** and will come after you. most likely unleashing one of the most terrifying beasts the PCs will ever encounter... a lawyer...
King_Bulba 08-03-05, 11:59 PM	even if a pc meant to give away his items to the party his spirit might have grown especially attached to those items. so it rises as some sort of powerfull undead and searches for those items , willing to kill anyone it has to to get them back and finally be able to rest. throw that at them a few times and maybe they'll have more respect for the dead. :) LOL I love it. The rest sound contrived to me but killing non loot creatures works but the fun factor starts droping fast... If players are dying at an abnormal pace and they aren't doing it on purpose then its the DMs fualt from my perspective. If the DM is making it to hard then I dont see why the players shouldnt be compinsated by looting the corpses of fallen foes. If the player did it on purpose then they will understand when you restrict the wealth coming into the party. Well my 2 copper, not that anyone cares.
Vrykolas2k 08-04-05, 12:28 PM	I run it like RL... if you die, your team splits up your gear. If you can be resurrected, you get it back, otherwise se la vie. As for the party getting jumped, well, only if they're idiotic peasants too stupid to post a guard. I find it works quite well.
TheErsatzFacsimileOfMe 08-04-05, 01:02 PM	Well, I usually use Etheral Flichers for that job. That's their entire purpose in life. As well as half a dozen other creatures in the MM and MM2. Spellweavers are always nice and creepy. Nothing like being able to cast six levels of spells all at the same time combined with never speaking to anyone but their own kind.
wonlee76 08-04-05, 01:07 PM	The last time I had a PC die and that player wanted to start a new character rather then play the dead PC, I essentially forced a raise dead/ress/true ress of the dead PC and retired him with gear intact (minus any gear sold to cover the costs of the raise/ress/true ress). The group in question would've done it if their PC had died and they wanted to continue playing the PC. So there was no reason for the PCs to loot and bury the PC other then the metagaming reason that he will be re-creating a new PC instead of playing the old one.
spoogemonkey 08-04-05, 04:21 PM	here are two OTHER things you can do: 1) try to destroy a few things in the event that killed the character....i.e. that fireball didn't just kill Larry but it burned up his Boots of Striding as well... 2) don't let them have transferable items. Have a local tattoo artist that makes magic tattoos that do almost excatly what the items do...... for a little less than the std cost of the magic item. But when the PC dies.... his buddies don't get his tattoos!
DarknessEternal 08-04-05, 04:34 PM	Treasureless encounters. It's the only solution that isn't contrived. If the money's getting to high, fight some things with no treasure for awhile.
Vaalingrade Ashland 08-04-05, 04:43 PM	If this is happening enough that it really is changing party wealth harmfully, there are two reasons: 1) You're probably killing them too much. 2) Ressing isn't easy enough to justify not GNCing.
Thoronmir 08-04-05, 05:32 PM	The lawyer in me can't leave some comments unchallenged:Still, a will must be prepared by an attorney - which will cost money (IIRC they have rates in the DMG,) and most will question the items not going to family. Blood is thicker than water, and the lawyer will probably charge extra for being a party to what he feels are 'shady dealings.' If they've got some scrawlings on the back of a tavern napkin that say: Geerou gets my greatsword. it won't hold up in court against blood relatives. Of course if your party Rogue is good at forgery they could make it look official on the cheap - but if they get caught (these are good guys, right?) that kind of fraud could get them all in some serious trouble. They could also make the napkin hold up in court by hiring a good attorney and dishing out some serious bribes - but in the end they'll still have to pay thousands for the stuff.I assume all this is a house-rule in your game because in real life (Christ! How I abhor real-life examples) a handwritten will is valid as long as it's written by the deceased (preferably before he's deceased, but we're talking D&D here). In most jurisdictions, anyone can write their own will as long as it's in their handwriting (not typed) and properly witnessed (usually requiring two witnesses). I also assume that you did not intend to imply that the "good lawyer" they hire is the one "dishing out some serious bribes" ... a good lawyer wouldn't need to.I mean why would a lawyer give a damn who you leave your stuff too?Probably because he's paid to care.most likely unleashing one of the most terrifying beasts the PCs will ever encounter... a lawyer...Well, we do suffer from a certain relentlessness and I have seen receptionists trepidatiously inform their employers that "the lawyer is here" as if they were announcing the arrival of Satan, but we're generally an amiable breed who are easy to please as long as we always get what we want. As an aside, a DM once decided to start a campaign with the PCs having only one level in an NPC class (he was going for that "common man" approach). He wanted us to begin as ordinary folks with ordinary (i.e., nonadventurous) jobs. I took Expert and made a lawyer. It was fun for a while, but the campaign fell apart the first time our team of nascent heroes had to face combat. We found out why Tolkien did not comprise the Fellowship of the Ring with a lawyer, a chef, a blacksmith, a locksmith, and a tavern wench. For some reason, my battle cry of Res Ipsa Locquiter! failed to rattle the Orcs' morale. The Orc Shaman did not even flinch when I served him with a summons. As for the OP, I would not prejudice the new character. I would just place a moratorium on the party finding new treasure until balance was restored.
StormKnight 08-04-05, 06:27 PM	"Looting" your friends is evil? Let me state, for the record, that if I get killed valiantly in battle defending my close friends who have been with me through countless hazards and threats, who have saved my life on many occasions, and who are in sharing in the quest we undertook for the good of all of the realm and those we hold dear, that I sure as heck WANT them to take the items that will help them survive and succeed!
Dunelord 08-04-05, 06:40 PM	Probably because he's paid to care. Really? I was under the impression that a lawyer's job is to represent his clinent's wishes and interests, and provide advice regarding matters of law, and when in dispute, matters of fact that are to be determined by a court. Now if some law restricting, as some places do, that you can't totally disinherite some relative then the lawyer would be paid to care about that law, BUT I have never heard of a laywer being paid to care that a item your allowed to leave to anyone is being left to one person over another, unless this would create some grey area.
Archtyrant Terevoth 08-04-05, 07:17 PM	This is more of an out of game problem and I advise it be handled with a gentleman's agreement between DM adn PC. Mechanically speaking, looting companions breaks the wealth guidelines because new PCs start with a large amount of wealth and you get to keep the wealth of the old PCs. Thus you can keep making a chain of new characters and thus get infinite wealth. For this reason you shouldn't be able to loot fellow PCs. It has no real roleplaying logic or ingame reasoning so I advise you to just talk with your players and agree just not to do it.
Leewei 08-04-05, 07:47 PM	One DM I used to play with simply said that any new PC was introduced at the starting experience for one experience level below the previous PC, with a minimum of 1st level (0 experience). New characters had their equipment hand-picked by the DM. This made players want their characters to get raised from the dead if at all possible, to start halfway to their previous level.
Kalriem 08-04-05, 07:56 PM	Very simply, how do you keep players from taking all the wealth from one of their dead companions? This is a problem I've never been able to resolve satisfactory. It often imbalances the treasure level of the looter, and has always struck me as very bad roleplaying. In addition, it's hard to prevent when the players make a pact to do so. :tantrum: So the wealth level of the party goes up each time a character dies and a new one comes in (as it would be total metagaming on my part to disallow a new character from entering the game with wealth). And methods like Disjunction, thief steals it in the night, etc come off as cliche and campy, or sometimes outright unfair (the non-looter is up to being punished, etc). It's especially bad when the character has a coveted and universal item, like say a gloves of dexterity or a boots of haste. All the characters are good aligned btw. But having the Gods strip them of power or bashing them over the head with alignment seems harsh too. And it just gets exponentially more problematic the higher the group has gotten in level. Here's my take: If a character dies when in a really sticky situation, oh say like the party is running from a band of drow that is chasing them for stealing the amulet that they were going to use to conquer the sunlit world, and a char dies then, if there is time, the party is entirely justified in taking all of the useful equipment (not gold) for 2 reasons: 1. They can't afford to let the enemy get it 2. chances are they will need it themselves However if a char dies and the party has an opportunity for a proper burial (but not resurrection), then it's a different story. My take on that is that they should bury/burn the dead char with all of his favorite items, and split the rest (including gold) among the party.
Phrennzy 08-04-05, 08:13 PM	When Finn (the party's halfling rogue) died - his last words were "Go ahead and take the attacks of opportunity", said about a pair of assassin vines - the rest of the party was seemingly surprisingly heartless about looting his body before buring it. I brought this up and got several responses. One was drawing an analogy between D&D and real life combat. If a soldier dies next to you, and he's carrying a useful weapon or tool, it's not disrespectful to take it. Another was asking the player of the character what Finn would have wanted (a logical question, seeing as how they would have had a chance to discuss this during one of their fireside chats that we never roleplayed). The player gave it serious thought and said that Finn would be okay with it. He'd actually want his friends to have his gear as rememberances. This wasn't some lame ass meta on the part of the player. That same player (he has two PCs) announced that Dante would want to be buried with his +2 Warhammer. I believe that the party would respect that. Someone else said, "We're adventures. Stripping the dead of their possessions is what we do." If the party is out of balance because of extra gear, just go light. No rust monsters or disenchanters or thieves in the night just to strip some gear. That's the lamest DM move ever.
Traevanon 08-04-05, 08:17 PM	Of course the party is justified in looting a dead party member, or anyone/thing else that has loot and is within reach. The only restrictions are alignment based, and usually those dont even apply. Its not evil to loot a fallen friend unless your culture says it is (oriental Samurai for example). Of course all this assumes that the party does actually win the encounter after the death. If they retreat, then the fallen friend will be looted by the enemies, in which case all that money they earned is lost. So, just use these three steps: 1) New characters come in using the NPC wealth chart rather than the PC version. 2) Treasure values from creatures must be kept under control. Rewarding, but not Monty Haul. 3) NPC magic vendors must be stingy. My main NPC vendor pays 50% base for items he buys and charges 125% for items he sells. Modify these values by the Vendor's Diplomacy or Appraise check and the PCs Diplomacy or Appraise check. Each point the one side beats the other (roll for both buying and selling) modifies the value by 1%. Dont allow rerolls unless the PC gets a higher total skill value through leveling or whatnot.
The Equalizer 08-04-05, 08:19 PM	I can see that they are taking all of the PC's acquired wealth, this could create a problem. Are they doing this for greed though? or are they doing it because they need to survive? If they are doing it just to be greedy, than I think that the above suggestions work fine. Or maybe your challenges are a little too hardcore and they feel that they need more wealth to survive. Makesure that the encounters arent too hard for their characters. You should just limit what they can take from the character, let them take some gold, rations, and ammo that they might need. I'm pretty sure that you could make a house rule for this kind of stuff. I would disallow leaving a dead friend in the nude. :D
journeyman777 08-06-05, 05:59 PM	Players have access to a several abilities that result in the destruction of enemy gear. Therefore, the NPCs probably do too. If the players gear is out of hand, just give the next BBEG a Barbarian henchman with Imp Sunder. Also, remember that the dead chars items are considered unattended. So throw some AoE spells in his general area and deal the damage to his items. There won't be much left for them to loot after that. If all else fails, have an enemy caster use Disjunction on them. It isn't metagaming for an enemy to try to destroy his opponent's gear. In fact, it is metagaming for your players to expect enemies to not target their gear occasionally. One neat trick if you have the DMG2, have the party use bonded items. These magic items give their bonuses only to the character that they are bonded to. So, there is no point in looting a bonded item.
75RD Drum Clip 08-07-05, 01:50 AM	IMC it is only myself and my best friend, which rotate DMing. We let RP dictate whether looting of dead comrades occurs. Using items of the dead in order to survive is a good idea IMO. Burying a fallen comrade with their favorite things after the mission is honorable--assuming bringing said fallen comrade back from death is not an option or successful.
Ut-Napishtim 08-07-05, 09:56 AM	I assume all this is a house-rule in your game because in real life (Christ! How I abhor real-life examples) a handwritten will is valid as long as it's written by the deceased (preferably before he's deceased, but we're talking D&D here). In most jurisdictions, anyone can write their own will as long as it's in their handwriting (not typed) and properly witnessed (usually requiring two witnesses). I also assume that you did not intend to imply that the "good lawyer" they hire is the one "dishing out some serious bribes" ... a good lawyer wouldn't need to. Well in my games the PC's don't exactly enjoy the protection of the U.S. Constitution. Depending on the alignment of the power center things could work differently. Did you ever notice how in say... 1456 rich people seemed to get away with almost anything and poor folks didn't even get trials most of the time? Back in the day being a lawyer was more about knowing which wheels needed grease and acting as an agent to facilitate that greasing than knowledge of laws and legal precedent. A good lawyer (not good-aligned, good at his job) makes sure to cover all the bases and get everyone their cut of the client's wealth so that things go favorably for his client. It never ceases to amaze me that PC's will assume they actually have rights or something in a D&D game as if there was team of lawyers from the HCLU (Harper's Civil Liberties Union) going around checking on authorities. :bored: