Keeping the Hired Help Alive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Keeping the Hired Help Alive [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Madsamurai
01-29-07, 03:28 PM So, im playing a paladin in a new campaign and he, like any self respecting paladin, wears fullplate.
Now the problem: You need another person to put on fullplate.
So my solution is simple and flavorful: Hire a pair of squires for a few silvers a day and be done with it. I could even teach them the arts of Palidan-hood.

Yet, this brings me to my real problem: Our party consists of 4-5 level 5 characters, and the best i can hope to hire is 2HD experts. So i need advice on keeping them alive.

So far all i can think of is chain shirt + heavy shield + total deffence each round in combat for a nice AC 20... But, that hardly looks like it will save them from fireballs.

Also, id like to keep my budget for their equipment to about 300gp
DeathsAudit
01-29-07, 03:34 PM Have a party member help until you can get a cohort.
Hack and Smasher
01-29-07, 03:40 PM 300gp on hirelings? i suggest 60 crossbow men for a month. 5sp per day per crossbow man.
Prime361
01-29-07, 04:07 PM if you want to keep them alive, keep them out of combat. If you want them to be combatants, then spent the money to gear them up and keep them supplied with ranged weapons and healing pots.

Otherwise, DeathsAudit had hte best plan and wait till you can get a cohort and til them make a party member help you suit up.
Aegeu
01-29-07, 04:19 PM What's keeping you from working with another party member and saving the 300gp for something else?
LeannaMoonbody
01-29-07, 04:21 PM Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me, but thankfully my character has been able to stay alive, because of them. I buff them in fights and im a good supporting character. They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can. Leadership really helped. The best thing I think you can do, is take time in game to teach your squires. They can only do as good as their skills. :) Good luck.
Alex_
01-29-07, 04:28 PM Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me, but thankfully my character has been able to stay alive, because of them. I buff them in fights and im a good supporting character. They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can. Leadership really helped. The best thing I think you can do, is take time in game to teach your squires. They can only do as good as their skills. :) Good luck.

Your fellow PCs won't protect you? Or are you intentionally playing a summoner/mastermind/controller/pet class concept as acknolwedged and accepted by the rest of the party?

I can say I'd be rather upset if I were acting as the party's meat shield, and the party Bard is more concerned with buffing up her NPCs when she could be buffing me.
DarkNick
01-29-07, 05:44 PM I agree with the others that suggested the other party members can help out. You could always pay them...

I have never been in a group that worried about how you get into your armor. Are you sure you need to worry about this, maybe you can just let is slide?

To keep them alive I would say get them a riding horse each and have them flee when possible. They can stay at camp while you guys search dungeons. Buy some barrels they can hide in if a fight starts.
Not much you can do about the fireball thing. Just make sure they are good at running. Though if you are teaching them to be Paladins I guess you won't want them to flee....
Alex_
01-29-07, 07:10 PM I just came up with an idea.

You could give the PCs a kind of "script immunity" and treat them as bumbling sidekicks/comic relief. Whenever a fight breaks out, they can have all kinds of crazy hijinks or get into comical arguments with each other about what to do, but never actually contribute to combat or suffer in any meaningful way.
Callista
01-29-07, 07:32 PM I just came up with an idea.

You could give the PCs a kind of "script immunity" and treat them as bumbling sidekicks/comic relief. Whenever a fight breaks out, they can have all kinds of crazy hijinks or get into comical arguments with each other about what to do, but never actually contribute to combat or suffer in any meaningful way.That takes DM agreement, but it can happen, I guess. (They could also be serious NPCs.) The only bad part of it is that if you let the DM do that, you have to be fair and let him kill them off for the sake of the plot if he wants to, just like any other NPC.
Madsamurai
01-29-07, 08:35 PM Hmm, I really like that idea. i will bring it up to my DM
Alex_
01-29-07, 09:08 PM That takes DM agreement, but it can happen, I guess. (They could also be serious NPCs.) The only bad part of it is that if you let the DM do that, you have to be fair and let him kill them off for the sake of the plot if he wants to, just like any other NPC.

How does agreeing to have the DM control NPCs for the mean that he's allowed to kill them off? Simply declare that you don't want the NPCs killed, or if they are, and the player has no strong connection with them, make them easily replaced like Red Shirts.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants
01-29-07, 10:00 PM Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me,

I would like to point out that you can't have a cohort that is higher level than you. In fact the cohort must be at least two levels behind you. I'd also like to add that you can only have one cohort, and followers are most likely only level 1 or 2, possibly a little higher depending on your leadership score.

They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can.

I'd like to point out two inaccuraciesin this statement. 1) Unless your DM is house-ruling some strange xp system in which you only gain xp for actually being the one killing the monster than you shouldn't be getting less xp and 2) cohorts don't take xp from the party, they get a percentage of your xp based n their level compared to your level.

Cohorts earn XP as follows:

The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP.

Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort).

Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total.

Along with #1 there is no point that the RAW supports such a position and it can lead to many situations that promote in-party fighting and arguing.
The_Third_Karsus
01-29-07, 10:37 PM What's keeping you from working with another party member and saving the 300gp for something else?

I agree completely with you. I feel that the party needs to be a whole. You guys all depend on each other and stuff so how does this make a difference?
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants
01-30-07, 08:11 AM On topic I'll add that this is usually one of those things glossed over in morning rituals and such. Its all part of tearing down camp, putting out the fire, breaking fast, putting on armor, etc. If you were in a situation were all those normal things didn't apply, or you were by yourself, you might have problems with full plate, but otherwise just say somebody helps you.
Irving
01-30-07, 08:18 AM There's actually something rather fun about having some servants who are comic relief/amusement value noncombatants. (Whe you go into the dungeon, just leave them at the base camp.) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, anyone?
The_Third_Karsus
01-30-07, 09:07 PM There's actually something rather fun about having some servants who are comic relief/amusement value noncombatants. (Whe you go into the dungeon, just leave them at the base camp.) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, anyone?

:D Ah good old Patsy!
Farmer_Tom_Cotton
02-04-07, 09:53 PM If you just want help getting into (or out of) armor get a wizard to make a specialized item based on the unseen servant spell to help you do that. Long term it will me much less expensive than good hired help.
If you want a squire take the leadership feat. Or get your DM to make the squire a reward for being a good Palidin. I mean an order of Knights has to have some sort of system of becoming a Knight. And progression through squire makes since. You get to promote your squires and everythinng.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Madsamurai 01-29-07, 03:28 PM	So, im playing a paladin in a new campaign and he, like any self respecting paladin, wears fullplate. Now the problem: You need another person to put on fullplate. So my solution is simple and flavorful: Hire a pair of squires for a few silvers a day and be done with it. I could even teach them the arts of Palidan-hood. Yet, this brings me to my real problem: Our party consists of 4-5 level 5 characters, and the best i can hope to hire is 2HD experts. So i need advice on keeping them alive. So far all i can think of is chain shirt + heavy shield + total deffence each round in combat for a nice AC 20... But, that hardly looks like it will save them from fireballs. Also, id like to keep my budget for their equipment to about 300gp
DeathsAudit 01-29-07, 03:34 PM	Have a party member help until you can get a cohort.
Hack and Smasher 01-29-07, 03:40 PM	300gp on hirelings? i suggest 60 crossbow men for a month. 5sp per day per crossbow man.
Prime361 01-29-07, 04:07 PM	if you want to keep them alive, keep them out of combat. If you want them to be combatants, then spent the money to gear them up and keep them supplied with ranged weapons and healing pots. Otherwise, DeathsAudit had hte best plan and wait till you can get a cohort and til them make a party member help you suit up.
Aegeu 01-29-07, 04:19 PM	What's keeping you from working with another party member and saving the 300gp for something else?
LeannaMoonbody 01-29-07, 04:21 PM	Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me, but thankfully my character has been able to stay alive, because of them. I buff them in fights and im a good supporting character. They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can. Leadership really helped. The best thing I think you can do, is take time in game to teach your squires. They can only do as good as their skills. :) Good luck.
Alex_ 01-29-07, 04:28 PM	Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me, but thankfully my character has been able to stay alive, because of them. I buff them in fights and im a good supporting character. They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can. Leadership really helped. The best thing I think you can do, is take time in game to teach your squires. They can only do as good as their skills. :) Good luck. Your fellow PCs won't protect you? Or are you intentionally playing a summoner/mastermind/controller/pet class concept as acknolwedged and accepted by the rest of the party? I can say I'd be rather upset if I were acting as the party's meat shield, and the party Bard is more concerned with buffing up her NPCs when she could be buffing me.
DarkNick 01-29-07, 05:44 PM	I agree with the others that suggested the other party members can help out. You could always pay them... I have never been in a group that worried about how you get into your armor. Are you sure you need to worry about this, maybe you can just let is slide? To keep them alive I would say get them a riding horse each and have them flee when possible. They can stay at camp while you guys search dungeons. Buy some barrels they can hide in if a fight starts. Not much you can do about the fireball thing. Just make sure they are good at running. Though if you are teaching them to be Paladins I guess you won't want them to flee....
Alex_ 01-29-07, 07:10 PM	I just came up with an idea. You could give the PCs a kind of "script immunity" and treat them as bumbling sidekicks/comic relief. Whenever a fight breaks out, they can have all kinds of crazy hijinks or get into comical arguments with each other about what to do, but never actually contribute to combat or suffer in any meaningful way.
Callista 01-29-07, 07:32 PM	I just came up with an idea. You could give the PCs a kind of "script immunity" and treat them as bumbling sidekicks/comic relief. Whenever a fight breaks out, they can have all kinds of crazy hijinks or get into comical arguments with each other about what to do, but never actually contribute to combat or suffer in any meaningful way.That takes DM agreement, but it can happen, I guess. (They could also be serious NPCs.) The only bad part of it is that if you let the DM do that, you have to be fair and let him kill them off for the sake of the plot if he wants to, just like any other NPC.
Madsamurai 01-29-07, 08:35 PM	Hmm, I really like that idea. i will bring it up to my DM
Alex_ 01-29-07, 09:08 PM	That takes DM agreement, but it can happen, I guess. (They could also be serious NPCs.) The only bad part of it is that if you let the DM do that, you have to be fair and let him kill them off for the sake of the plot if he wants to, just like any other NPC. How does agreeing to have the DM control NPCs for the mean that he's allowed to kill them off? Simply declare that you don't want the NPCs killed, or if they are, and the player has no strong connection with them, make them easily replaced like Red Shirts.
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 01-29-07, 10:00 PM	Well... Im in a similiar situation. My female bard is kinda weak, but reley's heavily on her charisma... perform and singing. She does not know how to fight( part of her backstory...)I ended up taking leadership, and actually got bodyguards. They are higher level than me, I would like to point out that you can't have a cohort that is higher level than you. In fact the cohort must be at least two levels behind you. I'd also like to add that you can only have one cohort, and followers are most likely only level 1 or 2, possibly a little higher depending on your leadership score. They actually get more xp then I do as well since I "support" their fighting and usually cannot kill as many monsters/people that they can. I'd like to point out two inaccuraciesin this statement. 1) Unless your DM is house-ruling some strange xp system in which you only gain xp for actually being the one killing the monster than you shouldn't be getting less xp and 2) cohorts don't take xp from the party, they get a percentage of your xp based n their level compared to your level. Cohorts earn XP as follows: The cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party’s XP. Divide the cohort’s level by the level of the PC with whom he or she is associated (the character with the Leadership feat who attracted the cohort). Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to the PC and add that number of experience points to the cohort’s total. Along with #1 there is no point that the RAW supports such a position and it can lead to many situations that promote in-party fighting and arguing.
The_Third_Karsus 01-29-07, 10:37 PM	What's keeping you from working with another party member and saving the 300gp for something else? I agree completely with you. I feel that the party needs to be a whole. You guys all depend on each other and stuff so how does this make a difference?
Lanky Ogre Baggy Pants 01-30-07, 08:11 AM	On topic I'll add that this is usually one of those things glossed over in morning rituals and such. Its all part of tearing down camp, putting out the fire, breaking fast, putting on armor, etc. If you were in a situation were all those normal things didn't apply, or you were by yourself, you might have problems with full plate, but otherwise just say somebody helps you.
Irving 01-30-07, 08:18 AM	There's actually something rather fun about having some servants who are comic relief/amusement value noncombatants. (Whe you go into the dungeon, just leave them at the base camp.) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, anyone?
The_Third_Karsus 01-30-07, 09:07 PM	There's actually something rather fun about having some servants who are comic relief/amusement value noncombatants. (Whe you go into the dungeon, just leave them at the base camp.) Monty Python and the Holy Grail, anyone? :D Ah good old Patsy!
Farmer_Tom_Cotton 02-04-07, 09:53 PM	If you just want help getting into (or out of) armor get a wizard to make a specialized item based on the unseen servant spell to help you do that. Long term it will me much less expensive than good hired help. If you want a squire take the leadership feat. Or get your DM to make the squire a reward for being a good Palidin. I mean an order of Knights has to have some sort of system of becoming a Knight. And progression through squire makes since. You get to promote your squires and everythinng.