Kensai Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kensai Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Merlain
12-15-05, 10:26 PM Could A Kensi (see Complete Warrior) somehow make his weapon intellegent when he enchants it?

My Character is a Monk, and although im enchanting my fists, i also wanted to know if it would work on regular weapons.

Additionaly, My monk has taken a Vow of Poverty (see Exalted Deeds) So, if he was required to burn money on the intellegence enablement, im also pondering if he could use the Vow of Poverty's 1 EXP ====> 5 GP to just burn extra EXP.

What Thinkest Thou?
Jovknee
12-16-05, 01:14 AM With the class abilities, I'd say no. The class allows you to spend XP on your weapon to give it magical plus to it (+10 at 10th level). Since intelligence isn't measured as such, you wouldn't be able to get the addition to your weapon. I'd say the same for any ability that doesn't have a +# attatched to it.

However that said, it could be a quest of yours to find someone who could make your weapon intelligent. Imagine intelligent hands......

Hands - "quit sticking me up your nose you pig!"
PC - "I was just clearing it out, and I dont have a tissue!"
Sevil
12-16-05, 09:14 AM You cannot have magical anything with VoP. It's contradicting itself.
Tyler Do'Urden
12-16-05, 11:54 AM 1. No, intelligent items are not covered by enhancement bonuses, which is all kensai gives you.

2. Yes, you can enchant your fists. If you actually had the book, you'd see that the sample kensai has done exactly that.

3. See the FAQ:Can a kensai (Complete Warrior, page 49) select unarmed strike as his signature weapon? If so, does this allow him to take Vow of Poverty while still retaining all the benefits of his signature weapon class feature?
Unarmed strike can be selected as a signature weapon by the kensai. The class feature even includes guidelines for how to adjudicate such a choice (see “Imbuing Natural Weapons” on page 51).
As far as both abilities working together, a strict reading of the rules would appear to allow it. (Of course, the enhancement bonus of the exalted strike ability from the Vow of Poverty wouldn’t stack with any enhancement bonus granted by the signature weapon class feature.)
That said, the Sage would fully support any DM who felt this to be an unfair abuse of the spirit of the Vow of Poverty.
One of the reasons that Book of Exalted Deeds is a “mature audiences” book is that many of its options are intended to allow players to create interesting roleplaying opportunities while not unduly hindering their characters’ ability to participate in adventures, not as avenues of abuse to create the most powerful character imaginable. If the DM felt that the kensai in question was trying to take advantage of the wording of Vow of Poverty to subvert its spirit, he’d be well within his rights to disallow the character from selecting the feat.
A better solution, though, would be for the DM to work with the player to find a middle ground that both can find fair and reasonable. As a start, the character might give up the exalted strike benefit of the Vow of Poverty (since he still “owns” a magic weapon, in a manner of speaking, and doesn’t need that benefit). If the weapon granted other abilities that overlapped or resembled benefits derived from the Vow of Poverty, it’s probably fair for the character to give up those benefits as well. As long as the character doesn’t seem to be netting significantly more from the combination of signature weapon and Vow of Poverty than a typical character would get from the vow alone, it’s probably okay.
The same is true of any character whose identity or class features are largely defined by a single possession. If, for example, a samurai from Oriental Adventures wished to pursue a life of poverty but didn’t want to dishonor her family by discarding her ancestral daisho, it seems reasonable for the DM to work with the player to find a reasonable middle ground (as described in the previous paragraph).
Merlain
01-01-06, 10:22 PM [QUOTE=Tyler Do'Urden]
2. Yes, you can enchant your fists. If you actually had the book, you'd see that the sample kensai has done exactly that.

Oh, i know that. My specific quesion was about the intellegence aspect.
Morka
01-02-06, 01:32 PM Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your feet, and actually be successful with that!
Shaggy_Shaggs
01-02-06, 01:42 PM Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your[...]
For a moment there that looked like it was headed for mature board territory. :smirk:
GobalinKing
01-02-06, 02:55 PM Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your feet, and actually be successful with that!

"I wish we had another opinion on this. Wait, my feet are intellegent. How about it, feet?"
"For god's sake, man, if you're going to walk over rubble, gravel, and rocks, PUT SOME SHOES ON!!! We're dying down here!"
Sakaki22
01-02-06, 03:02 PM Your Unarmed Strike is already intelligent.

I mean, your Monk has an Intelligence score, doesn't he?
Lady Maedhros
01-03-06, 01:08 AM Taking the Vow of Poverty into consideration, it's not even an issue for your particular monk. He'd have to have a masterwork weapon to enchant to begin with, and he's not allowed to own one of those.

Interestingly enough, i think you've just found a loophole in the Vow of Poverty itself, though - if an intellegent magic item is found by your monk, and it expresses a desire to work with that character in a quest to eradicate evil, you could weild it in battle by RAW. After all, if it's a willing partnership, than it means the sword is not a possession of yours (if it were, it would be a slave - the definition of a sentient possession - and a slave is, at best, a willing subordinate, not a willing partner).

However, in general terms, no, you still can't do it unless your DM throws a house rule in there, since intellegent items have no calculable "plus cost". You might get your DM to agree to a percentile roll, though. It would be easy to interperet that a magic item created by kensai means is no different than a magic item created with a Craft skill, and therefore has the same random chance at sapience.
madpiper
01-03-06, 08:25 AM I really think that Kensai by passes the masterwork requirement when considering the unarmed strike as the signature weapon. As far as giving your unarmed strike intelligence, it seems to be a common sense thing. You are the weapon, therefore you already have intelligence. Since you yourself are the weapon I would think that logic (with rules and world of Dnd) would not allow a seperate intelligence to inhabit you, would that not be possession? Just some thoughts.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Merlain 12-15-05, 10:26 PM	Could A Kensi (see Complete Warrior) somehow make his weapon intellegent when he enchants it? My Character is a Monk, and although im enchanting my fists, i also wanted to know if it would work on regular weapons. Additionaly, My monk has taken a Vow of Poverty (see Exalted Deeds) So, if he was required to burn money on the intellegence enablement, im also pondering if he could use the Vow of Poverty's 1 EXP ====> 5 GP to just burn extra EXP. What Thinkest Thou?
Jovknee 12-16-05, 01:14 AM	With the class abilities, I'd say no. The class allows you to spend XP on your weapon to give it magical plus to it (+10 at 10th level). Since intelligence isn't measured as such, you wouldn't be able to get the addition to your weapon. I'd say the same for any ability that doesn't have a +# attatched to it. However that said, it could be a quest of yours to find someone who could make your weapon intelligent. Imagine intelligent hands...... Hands - "quit sticking me up your nose you pig!" PC - "I was just clearing it out, and I dont have a tissue!"
Sevil 12-16-05, 09:14 AM	You cannot have magical anything with VoP. It's contradicting itself.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-16-05, 11:54 AM	1. No, intelligent items are not covered by enhancement bonuses, which is all kensai gives you. 2. Yes, you can enchant your fists. If you actually had the book, you'd see that the sample kensai has done exactly that. 3. See the FAQ:Can a kensai (Complete Warrior, page 49) select unarmed strike as his signature weapon? If so, does this allow him to take Vow of Poverty while still retaining all the benefits of his signature weapon class feature? Unarmed strike can be selected as a signature weapon by the kensai. The class feature even includes guidelines for how to adjudicate such a choice (see “Imbuing Natural Weapons” on page 51). As far as both abilities working together, a strict reading of the rules would appear to allow it. (Of course, the enhancement bonus of the exalted strike ability from the Vow of Poverty wouldn’t stack with any enhancement bonus granted by the signature weapon class feature.) That said, the Sage would fully support any DM who felt this to be an unfair abuse of the spirit of the Vow of Poverty. One of the reasons that Book of Exalted Deeds is a “mature audiences” book is that many of its options are intended to allow players to create interesting roleplaying opportunities while not unduly hindering their characters’ ability to participate in adventures, not as avenues of abuse to create the most powerful character imaginable. If the DM felt that the kensai in question was trying to take advantage of the wording of Vow of Poverty to subvert its spirit, he’d be well within his rights to disallow the character from selecting the feat. A better solution, though, would be for the DM to work with the player to find a middle ground that both can find fair and reasonable. As a start, the character might give up the exalted strike benefit of the Vow of Poverty (since he still “owns” a magic weapon, in a manner of speaking, and doesn’t need that benefit). If the weapon granted other abilities that overlapped or resembled benefits derived from the Vow of Poverty, it’s probably fair for the character to give up those benefits as well. As long as the character doesn’t seem to be netting significantly more from the combination of signature weapon and Vow of Poverty than a typical character would get from the vow alone, it’s probably okay. The same is true of any character whose identity or class features are largely defined by a single possession. If, for example, a samurai from Oriental Adventures wished to pursue a life of poverty but didn’t want to dishonor her family by discarding her ancestral daisho, it seems reasonable for the DM to work with the player to find a reasonable middle ground (as described in the previous paragraph).
Merlain 01-01-06, 10:22 PM	[QUOTE=Tyler Do'Urden] 2. Yes, you can enchant your fists. If you actually had the book, you'd see that the sample kensai has done exactly that. Oh, i know that. My specific quesion was about the intellegence aspect.
Morka 01-02-06, 01:32 PM	Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your feet, and actually be successful with that!
Shaggy_Shaggs 01-02-06, 01:42 PM	Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your[...] For a moment there that looked like it was headed for mature board territory. :smirk:
GobalinKing 01-02-06, 02:55 PM	Since Unarmed Strike can also be with your feet (in fact, any body part), giving them a magical intelligence would allow you to think with your feet, and actually be successful with that! "I wish we had another opinion on this. Wait, my feet are intellegent. How about it, feet?" "For god's sake, man, if you're going to walk over rubble, gravel, and rocks, PUT SOME SHOES ON!!! We're dying down here!"
Sakaki22 01-02-06, 03:02 PM	Your Unarmed Strike is already intelligent. I mean, your Monk has an Intelligence score, doesn't he?
Lady Maedhros 01-03-06, 01:08 AM	Taking the Vow of Poverty into consideration, it's not even an issue for your particular monk. He'd have to have a masterwork weapon to enchant to begin with, and he's not allowed to own one of those. Interestingly enough, i think you've just found a loophole in the Vow of Poverty itself, though - if an intellegent magic item is found by your monk, and it expresses a desire to work with that character in a quest to eradicate evil, you could weild it in battle by RAW. After all, if it's a willing partnership, than it means the sword is not a possession of yours (if it were, it would be a slave - the definition of a sentient possession - and a slave is, at best, a willing subordinate, not a willing partner). However, in general terms, no, you still can't do it unless your DM throws a house rule in there, since intellegent items have no calculable "plus cost". You might get your DM to agree to a percentile roll, though. It would be easy to interperet that a magic item created by kensai means is no different than a magic item created with a Craft skill, and therefore has the same random chance at sapience.
madpiper 01-03-06, 08:25 AM	I really think that Kensai by passes the masterwork requirement when considering the unarmed strike as the signature weapon. As far as giving your unarmed strike intelligence, it seems to be a common sense thing. You are the weapon, therefore you already have intelligence. Since you yourself are the weapon I would think that logic (with rules and world of Dnd) would not allow a seperate intelligence to inhabit you, would that not be possession? Just some thoughts.