Kensai Signature Weapon Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kensai Signature Weapon Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
pink_bass
06-09-05, 02:07 AM Guys,
Im about to start playing a game where I will be going down the Kensai path. A few questions:
1. Im very confused about the whole "When you go up a level you get to upgrade your weapon by x where x is your class level in kensai". My problem is that if say I wanted to go VORPAL do I need to wait until I get to level 5 where I get given the +5 option or can I save them up and wait until level 3 where I would have 6 + mods saved up?

2. As well as this can you do as many +1 mods as you have in spare xp at level one? It doesnt say if you can only do it the once or what.

3. Is there a limit to how many mods you can have on a weapon? If I bought a +5 weapon and then started doing kensai ultimately could I have upto the +15 through Kensai or do I get capped at +10

4. What are peoples favourite mods to get done to weapons? I need some ideas and please include the source books.
Gehenna
06-09-05, 02:33 AM 1. You would have to wait until level 6 to get a +1 Vorpal weapon (all magical weapons must have at least a +1 to have an ability). The kensai ability is not upgrade by x, it is upgrade to a MAXIMUM of X. If you made, say, a +2 flaming longsword at level 3, you couldn't make that weapon a +2 Vorpal Flaming longsword because that is effectively a +8 weapon (2 modifier + 5 Vorpal +1 Flaming)

2. I think #1 covers that. Weapon can be upgraded to a MAX of Kensai level.

3. The cap is +10 including Kensai bonuses and bonuses granted through Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
pink_bass
06-09-05, 02:49 AM Thank you for that. What you say makes sense. So theres no such thing as a weapon with more than +10 other than your artifacts or whatever. Interesting....I never knew that. I assumed that if you had the money you could do anything. Does it state that anywhere in the DMG? I was looking for it and could find it.

The only question that remains now if you had +10 to put on a weapon what mods would you do? Im a Fighter with a DUOM which is from "Sword and Fist" basically a reach tripping weapon that allows you to fight within 5ft like the spiked chain.
Thorak
06-09-05, 08:12 AM Thank you for that. What you say makes sense. So theres no such thing as a weapon with more than +10 other than your artifacts or whatever. Interesting....I never knew that. I assumed that if you had the money you could do anything. Does it state that anywhere in the DMG? I was looking for it and could find it.
Page 221 of the DMG; "A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10."
The only question that remains now if you had +10 to put on a weapon what mods would you do? Im a Fighter with a DUOM which is from "Sword and Fist" basically a reach tripping weapon that allows you to fight within 5ft like the spiked chain.
I'm personally fond of the various bonus damage enchantments. Flaming, Shocking, Icy, Holy, Axiomatic, etc. The elemental ones tend to be the best, IMHO, since the aligned ones only affect the opposite alignment. That said, my current Paladin/Kensai has a +3 Holy Flaming bastard sword. He's a knight of Pelor (not a PrC, just descriptive), so it's fitting, and he's a paladin, so he smacks evil all over the place anyway.

I also recommend against easily-duplicated effects. Forget Keen, get Improved Critical (especially as a Kensai, who is focused on a weapon anyway). Similar, forget Speed, have a party mage who can cast Haste (not that Speed is bad, but it's expensive, and it doesn't stack with a spell a lot of arcane casters take). Also, forget the elemental burst enchantments; they're moderately OK if your weapon has a really good crit, like 20/x4 or something, but you'll generally do better with two normal elemental enchantments than a single elemental burst, and they cost the same.

It really depends on the campaign and the character, though. Brilliant Energy can be incredible, or often useless. Throwing and Returning can get interesting, depending on the build. Etc, etc.
elvnsword
06-09-05, 07:59 PM Hate to intterupt or take slightly off subject, but I am planning on running a Kensai as well, and was wondering what effect it would have in Epic level play after the +10 cap is removed. Is it still capable only of enhancements to 10 or can it add to existing enhancements to achieve 11+ ?

Thanks
Elvnsword
snowlynx
06-09-05, 08:38 PM Hrm...epic Kensei...I would have to guess that weapon enahncement would be one of the abilities that would improve as you gained Kensei levels, presuming you continued your path, but I don't know at what rate.
BeyondFated
06-09-05, 10:27 PM Something I alway wondered about the Kensai, can I modifiy the bonuses? Lets say at 2nd lvl, I have a +1 Flaming Fist, at 3rd lvl, can I change it to a +1 shocking burst Fist?

I would understand if you could only do that at level up, but I just want to know if that is allowed.
Jaime_Wolf
06-09-05, 10:40 PM Pink_Bass, since you hadn't seen the +10 max, keep in mind that the actual enhancement bonus cap is 5, you can't have, say, a +10 Longsword, or a +9 Flaming Longsword, if you want a total bonus of +10, the only way to do so is +5 of effects (flaming, shocking, vorpal, et cetera) and +5 enhancement.

Thorak, does your DM allow you to put two elemental effects on a weapon. I mean, there are very few situations where that wouldn't be better than a burst weapon. Not I nor anyone in our group who DMs allows that. One of my friends did once, and the fighter ended up with a shocking frosting flaming sword of some sort, other people with +3 enchantments didn't stand a chance against him. Later, he reasoned that since it'd be the same effect he'd make his sword "triple flaming." Eventually, the DM reasoned that if that was intended to be possible since for +4 or +5 you can have roughly the equivalent of a +6 enhancement bonus epic property (and that +1 enhancement bonus adds a TON to the cost when transitioning to epic level items).

And, finally, BeyondFated, does Kensai allow you to add bonuses to your hands? I'll have to take a look at it again, that'd make it very good for monks since normally they have to buy very expensive magic items to do so (think amulet of mighty fists, 3x normal enhancement costs I believe).
Meshakhad
06-09-05, 10:40 PM The best part about being a Kensai is that you only need XP for your weapon. So you can spend your cash on, say, powerful armor.

How about this: +4 shock burst flaming burst icy burst? Zap, fry, and freeze them all at once!
Thorak
06-09-05, 11:42 PM Thorak, does your DM allow you to put two elemental effects on a weapon. I mean, there are very few situations where that wouldn't be better than a burst weapon. Not I nor anyone in our group who DMs allows that. One of my friends did once, and the fighter ended up with a shocking frosting flaming sword of some sort, other people with +3 enchantments didn't stand a chance against him. Later, he reasoned that since it'd be the same effect he'd make his sword "triple flaming." Eventually, the DM reasoned that if that was intended to be possible since for +4 or +5 you can have roughly the equivalent of a +6 enhancement bonus epic property (and that +1 enhancement bonus adds a TON to the cost when transitioning to epic level items).
Find me any reason they wouldn't stack, in the rules.

Until you do, I cite the FAQ at you;
"There’s nothing illogical about a flaming, frost, shock weapon (at least not within any framework that allows weapons to generate energy in the first place), and there’s no rule against such weapons (think of the weapon as having fiery, frosty, shocking flames). The character creating such a weapon
decides how it can be activated. Most such weapons probably are made so that the wielders can activate all three powers simultaneously, or activate them one at a time, as desired."

If your DM rules otherwise, he's houseruling. There's absolutely no reason you can't have multiple elemental enhancements on a weapon.

Besides, there's really no way to say a Holy Shocking Merciful weapon doesn't make good sense (stun-baton, anyone?), and if the enemy's evil, they're taking +4d6 damage from that sucker. There's plenty of +d6 damage powers beyond the elemental ones, and yes, they all stack.

Want real fun? A +2 Holy Axiomatic Flaming Shocking Icy Merciful weapon, when attacking a CE character, gets +8d6 damage. Kablooie.
And, finally, BeyondFated, does Kensai allow you to add bonuses to your hands? I'll have to take a look at it again, that'd make it very good for monks since normally they have to buy very expensive magic items to do so (think amulet of mighty fists, 3x normal enhancement costs I believe).
I'll take this one too. Yes, Kensai explicitly can be used to enchant one's unarmed strikes and natural weapons, instead of a manufactured weapon.
Meshakhad
06-11-05, 10:05 PM Here is one powerful weapon/character combo.
The class: Hexblade.
This one has the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, and wields a Large +1 flaming frost spiked chain. Adding in his Strength bonus, and he deals 4d6+5 damage with each hit. And his reach is 15!
Thorak
06-11-05, 10:11 PM Here is one powerful weapon/character combo.
The class: Hexblade.
This one has the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, and wields a Large +1 flaming frost spiked chain. Adding in his Strength bonus, and he deals 4d6+5 damage with each hit. And his reach is 15!
Jotunbrud does not let you wield Large weapons.

Nor does it give you increased reach.

It only lets you be treated as one size category larger for opposed checks like Grapple, and for monster's special attacks, when either's beneficial to you.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
pink_bass 06-09-05, 02:07 AM	Guys, Im about to start playing a game where I will be going down the Kensai path. A few questions: 1. Im very confused about the whole "When you go up a level you get to upgrade your weapon by x where x is your class level in kensai". My problem is that if say I wanted to go VORPAL do I need to wait until I get to level 5 where I get given the +5 option or can I save them up and wait until level 3 where I would have 6 + mods saved up? 2. As well as this can you do as many +1 mods as you have in spare xp at level one? It doesnt say if you can only do it the once or what. 3. Is there a limit to how many mods you can have on a weapon? If I bought a +5 weapon and then started doing kensai ultimately could I have upto the +15 through Kensai or do I get capped at +10 4. What are peoples favourite mods to get done to weapons? I need some ideas and please include the source books.
Gehenna 06-09-05, 02:33 AM	1. You would have to wait until level 6 to get a +1 Vorpal weapon (all magical weapons must have at least a +1 to have an ability). The kensai ability is not upgrade by x, it is upgrade to a MAXIMUM of X. If you made, say, a +2 flaming longsword at level 3, you couldn't make that weapon a +2 Vorpal Flaming longsword because that is effectively a +8 weapon (2 modifier + 5 Vorpal +1 Flaming) 2. I think #1 covers that. Weapon can be upgraded to a MAX of Kensai level. 3. The cap is +10 including Kensai bonuses and bonuses granted through Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
pink_bass 06-09-05, 02:49 AM	Thank you for that. What you say makes sense. So theres no such thing as a weapon with more than +10 other than your artifacts or whatever. Interesting....I never knew that. I assumed that if you had the money you could do anything. Does it state that anywhere in the DMG? I was looking for it and could find it. The only question that remains now if you had +10 to put on a weapon what mods would you do? Im a Fighter with a DUOM which is from "Sword and Fist" basically a reach tripping weapon that allows you to fight within 5ft like the spiked chain.
Thorak 06-09-05, 08:12 AM	Thank you for that. What you say makes sense. So theres no such thing as a weapon with more than +10 other than your artifacts or whatever. Interesting....I never knew that. I assumed that if you had the money you could do anything. Does it state that anywhere in the DMG? I was looking for it and could find it. Page 221 of the DMG; "A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents) higher than +10." The only question that remains now if you had +10 to put on a weapon what mods would you do? Im a Fighter with a DUOM which is from "Sword and Fist" basically a reach tripping weapon that allows you to fight within 5ft like the spiked chain. I'm personally fond of the various bonus damage enchantments. Flaming, Shocking, Icy, Holy, Axiomatic, etc. The elemental ones tend to be the best, IMHO, since the aligned ones only affect the opposite alignment. That said, my current Paladin/Kensai has a +3 Holy Flaming bastard sword. He's a knight of Pelor (not a PrC, just descriptive), so it's fitting, and he's a paladin, so he smacks evil all over the place anyway. I also recommend against easily-duplicated effects. Forget Keen, get Improved Critical (especially as a Kensai, who is focused on a weapon anyway). Similar, forget Speed, have a party mage who can cast Haste (not that Speed is bad, but it's expensive, and it doesn't stack with a spell a lot of arcane casters take). Also, forget the elemental burst enchantments; they're moderately OK if your weapon has a really good crit, like 20/x4 or something, but you'll generally do better with two normal elemental enchantments than a single elemental burst, and they cost the same. It really depends on the campaign and the character, though. Brilliant Energy can be incredible, or often useless. Throwing and Returning can get interesting, depending on the build. Etc, etc.
elvnsword 06-09-05, 07:59 PM	Hate to intterupt or take slightly off subject, but I am planning on running a Kensai as well, and was wondering what effect it would have in Epic level play after the +10 cap is removed. Is it still capable only of enhancements to 10 or can it add to existing enhancements to achieve 11+ ? Thanks Elvnsword
snowlynx 06-09-05, 08:38 PM	Hrm...epic Kensei...I would have to guess that weapon enahncement would be one of the abilities that would improve as you gained Kensei levels, presuming you continued your path, but I don't know at what rate.
BeyondFated 06-09-05, 10:27 PM	Something I alway wondered about the Kensai, can I modifiy the bonuses? Lets say at 2nd lvl, I have a +1 Flaming Fist, at 3rd lvl, can I change it to a +1 shocking burst Fist? I would understand if you could only do that at level up, but I just want to know if that is allowed.
Jaime_Wolf 06-09-05, 10:40 PM	Pink_Bass, since you hadn't seen the +10 max, keep in mind that the actual enhancement bonus cap is 5, you can't have, say, a +10 Longsword, or a +9 Flaming Longsword, if you want a total bonus of +10, the only way to do so is +5 of effects (flaming, shocking, vorpal, et cetera) and +5 enhancement. Thorak, does your DM allow you to put two elemental effects on a weapon. I mean, there are very few situations where that wouldn't be better than a burst weapon. Not I nor anyone in our group who DMs allows that. One of my friends did once, and the fighter ended up with a shocking frosting flaming sword of some sort, other people with +3 enchantments didn't stand a chance against him. Later, he reasoned that since it'd be the same effect he'd make his sword "triple flaming." Eventually, the DM reasoned that if that was intended to be possible since for +4 or +5 you can have roughly the equivalent of a +6 enhancement bonus epic property (and that +1 enhancement bonus adds a TON to the cost when transitioning to epic level items). And, finally, BeyondFated, does Kensai allow you to add bonuses to your hands? I'll have to take a look at it again, that'd make it very good for monks since normally they have to buy very expensive magic items to do so (think amulet of mighty fists, 3x normal enhancement costs I believe).
Meshakhad 06-09-05, 10:40 PM	The best part about being a Kensai is that you only need XP for your weapon. So you can spend your cash on, say, powerful armor. How about this: +4 shock burst flaming burst icy burst? Zap, fry, and freeze them all at once!
Thorak 06-09-05, 11:42 PM	Thorak, does your DM allow you to put two elemental effects on a weapon. I mean, there are very few situations where that wouldn't be better than a burst weapon. Not I nor anyone in our group who DMs allows that. One of my friends did once, and the fighter ended up with a shocking frosting flaming sword of some sort, other people with +3 enchantments didn't stand a chance against him. Later, he reasoned that since it'd be the same effect he'd make his sword "triple flaming." Eventually, the DM reasoned that if that was intended to be possible since for +4 or +5 you can have roughly the equivalent of a +6 enhancement bonus epic property (and that +1 enhancement bonus adds a TON to the cost when transitioning to epic level items). Find me any reason they wouldn't stack, in the rules. Until you do, I cite the FAQ at you; "There’s nothing illogical about a flaming, frost, shock weapon (at least not within any framework that allows weapons to generate energy in the first place), and there’s no rule against such weapons (think of the weapon as having fiery, frosty, shocking flames). The character creating such a weapon decides how it can be activated. Most such weapons probably are made so that the wielders can activate all three powers simultaneously, or activate them one at a time, as desired." If your DM rules otherwise, he's houseruling. There's absolutely no reason you can't have multiple elemental enhancements on a weapon. Besides, there's really no way to say a Holy Shocking Merciful weapon doesn't make good sense (stun-baton, anyone?), and if the enemy's evil, they're taking +4d6 damage from that sucker. There's plenty of +d6 damage powers beyond the elemental ones, and yes, they all stack. Want real fun? A +2 Holy Axiomatic Flaming Shocking Icy Merciful weapon, when attacking a CE character, gets +8d6 damage. Kablooie. And, finally, BeyondFated, does Kensai allow you to add bonuses to your hands? I'll have to take a look at it again, that'd make it very good for monks since normally they have to buy very expensive magic items to do so (think amulet of mighty fists, 3x normal enhancement costs I believe). I'll take this one too. Yes, Kensai explicitly can be used to enchant one's unarmed strikes and natural weapons, instead of a manufactured weapon.
Meshakhad 06-11-05, 10:05 PM	Here is one powerful weapon/character combo. The class: Hexblade. This one has the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, and wields a Large +1 flaming frost spiked chain. Adding in his Strength bonus, and he deals 4d6+5 damage with each hit. And his reach is 15!
Thorak 06-11-05, 10:11 PM	Here is one powerful weapon/character combo. The class: Hexblade. This one has the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun, and wields a Large +1 flaming frost spiked chain. Adding in his Strength bonus, and he deals 4d6+5 damage with each hit. And his reach is 15! Jotunbrud does not let you wield Large weapons. Nor does it give you increased reach. It only lets you be treated as one size category larger for opposed checks like Grapple, and for monster's special attacks, when either's beneficial to you.