Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wcwlc 04-12-05, 09:55 PM	One of the group member bought a treasure map which lead us to a little island center around a volcano, think Maui. We found a cave that require seven keys to open. It was the old keep of a necormancer. Each key is being protected by a deity. One of the key is been kept inside a moon deity temple. Inside of the temple there is a magic fire pit and the key is being hanging magically from the sky. All the metal/material went inside the flame gets crispy cooked. We were told that anyone who stick their hand inside the fire will lose them permantly. Any idea what we can do to take the key outside the fire pit? Mage hand is no good. Oh I forgot to add that the magic power the fire/key is somewhat related to the moon. When the sun comes up the key and the fire disappears. Thank you so much guys! **edit magic hand to mage hand...sorry.
Lord Gwydion 04-12-05, 10:30 PM	Wait there for a solar eclipse? Or risk a Protection from Fire spell of some sort if you don't want to wait for up to 10 years by the side of the pit. :D
Nimrud 04-12-05, 11:00 PM	Summon a fire elemental. Command it to retrieve the key for you. Done.
Multani 04-12-05, 11:06 PM	Ummm.... how bout aiming a sun beamy spell thing at the fire, but making sure the key is out of the radius? Unlless of course there is no delay between the time the sunstuffs stop hitting the flames, and them reappearing... Mind dead... sorry :dancin: :cookie:
Dowanroden 04-12-05, 11:12 PM	You could try casting a sunlight spell at the roof of the room. Or maybe try tossing a ceramic cup at the key and hope it catches it, ceramics tend to be highly fire resistant given you have to burn them to make them solid anyway. Or heck, cover the fire pit with a ceramic lid and then try to get the key.
philopharynx 04-12-05, 11:20 PM	One of the group member bought a treasure map which lead us to a little island center around a volcano, think Maui. We found a cave that require seven keys to open. It was the old keep of a necormancer. Each key is being protected by a deity. One of the key is been kept inside a moon deity temple. Inside of the temple there is a magic fire pit and the key is being hanging magically from the sky. All the metal/material went inside the flame gets crispy cooked. We were told that anyone who stick their hand inside the fire will lose them permantly. Any idea what we can do to take the key outside the fire pit? Magic hand is no good. Oh I forgot to add that the magic power the fire/key is somewhat related to the moon. When the sun comes up the key and the fire disappears. Thank you so much guys! Mage hand?
Koda77 04-13-05, 02:33 AM	just wait for the sun to come up step inside the ring wait for the sun to go grab the key then wait till morning once more and your out
wcwlc 04-13-05, 02:37 AM	:D They are great ideas. Here is another question...that is kind of related. At the temple we meet another adventure group who also bought a copy of the same map (I know, very suspecious) and they have obtained 2 of the 7 keys required to open the door. They are not detect as devil. Even though they have a rogue in their group. Our group has 3 keys and with luck we hope to get the key stuck at the fire pit. Do you think there is anyway we can get the other two keys from the other adventure group without killing them? It is not likely they will give up easily since to get to the island you have o pay around $1,500 gld to charter the ship. If we have to partner up, what is a fair way to do it? With our experience with the DM, we are expecting to find some magic items in the cave and you know how difficult it is to share...specially when it comes to magic items. :P I forgot to add that our group has lost our cleric (she started her MBA program and is now less incline to travel 3 hours round trip to game). The other group has a cleric. It would be nice to dump off the other group with exception of the cleric so we can have a cleric NPC.(ok, I have a bit evilness in me, that is why I took 2 lvls of rouge( Of course it would be difficult to do anything evil out right since we have a paladine in our group. So please feel free to share with me your thoughts. Thanks.
Callista 04-13-05, 03:22 AM	Meh. Rogues don't have to be evil. Just sneaky. Anyways: Re. Magic items: You can try to reach an agreement with the other group. You take magic items, they take gold. If they're not equal value, then one group pays the other. You can also agree to split the loot fifty-fifty between the parties. You'll need such an agreement, even if you don't plan to keep it. As for getting the keys without killing the opposing party: Are your rogue levels enough to allow you to steal the keys from them? You may agree to travel together, watch where they keep the keys, then grab the keys when the time is right (when they're asleep, for example). Good luck explaining that to the paladin, though. S/he probably won't stand such sneaky (chaotic) actions. If it becomes necessary to fight the other party, you can knock them out without killing them. Do enough subdual damage to them so that you know they will not be killed instantly when you knock them unconscious (generally, this means subdual damage equal to your own maximum possible damage); then you can switch back to lethal. Tie them up and leave them, and be prepared to have made enemies. Re. Not having a cleric: Buy your Paladin a wand of cure X wounds (depening on your budget and level). Problem solved.
Clawhound 04-13-05, 01:16 PM	That's why every rogue should carry a fire poker.
Alluvian 04-13-05, 02:31 PM	The fire from the pit is causing the intense heat during the night? If so, try and block the fire during the day so you can grab the key. Possibly some kind of summonable wall? (not that familiar with the arcane wall spells) earthen wall might work if someone can make it, cant really burn earth. ceramic lid was also good, and I liked the idea of directing sunlight onto the pit but NOT the key. Depends on how fast the pit and key poof in the early morning sun. If the room is such that light does not enter it till after dawn you can setup mirrors to direct the early dawn rays selectively. Darkness spell that envelops the key, but NOT the pit. cast it as the key/fire is about to poof, then when the fire goes out, see if you can grab a key in the darkness globe. (it might be very hot, depending on how magic this key is)
SnowbearK 04-13-05, 11:42 PM	Summon a fire elemental. Command it to retrieve the key for you. Done. Probably the easiest and most expedient way. Only requires a 5th level caster too. Though, depending on how much damage per round this fire did, a 1st level caster summoning a Fiendish Raven might be able to do the exact same thing.
philopharynx 04-14-05, 01:09 AM	Re. Not having a cleric: Buy your Paladin a wand of cure X wounds (depening on your budget and level). Problem solved. Actually, at most levels I'd only buy wands of cure light wounds. I'd get stronger potions for healing during a battle, but after the combat you can spend the time to use several charges and still save money. Even better, get enough healing potions to keep you going through your combats and get a wand of lesser vigor. For 750 gp you get 11 points of healing a pop. And you don't have to worry about bad dice rolls.
Vaelan 04-14-05, 03:53 AM	I would make a deal with the other adventurers. Tell them that waiting at the shrine and observing it during various phases of the lunar cycle will most likely give them the solution to the puzzle. While they're waiting, go get the last key. Regardless of if you are right or wrong, you have four of the seven keys (if you were right about the firepit, you would have a significant claim to the fifth as you would if you were wrong about the firepit then came back and solved it later) which puts you in a position where you could possibly convince the other party to agree to terms that are more favorable to you in a joint venture into the cave.
Callista 04-14-05, 05:30 AM	Actually, at most levels I'd only buy wands of cure light wounds. I'd get stronger potions for healing during a battle, but after the combat you can spend the time to use several charges and still save money. Even better, get enough healing potions to keep you going through your combats and get a wand of lesser vigor. For 750 gp you get 11 points of healing a pop. And you don't have to worry about bad dice rolls. Healing potions are more expensive, though. When you don't have a cleric, the moderate investment of a stronger Cure wand can turn your paladin into an ersatz cleric during battle. The CLW is a good idea for after-battle healing, though. It's the cheapest healing out there, beyond a cleric's spells per day, and those are limited. I have a Rogue/Paladin (long story) who is using exactly this strategy, and has been ever since I got a decent UMD score. Had she had a wand of Cure Light Wounds during battle, instead of the Medium she's got now, there would have been... let's see, probably three, definitely two, more deaths in the party. The difference between 1d8+3 and 2d8+5 can be the difference between an ally who can get up and retreat, and one who will die if he's not dragged out. So, yeah, CLW is the best investment; but during battle, when you can't zap it twice in a turn, you'd better have something stronger on hand. Every member of that party also carries two CMW and a CSW potion at any given time, bought out of party funds. The same Paladin/Rogue (who tends to be very mommy-ish about her teammates) has enforced this rule; and while it hasn't saved lives directly yet, I think it has tipped the balance once or twice. Too bad all my other characters are Chaotic, or I'd enforce such a rule in the other games I play as well (rotating-DM arrangement, with each person running a different campaign in the same world). But it's a good idea for any character who is party- or healing-oriented (or just practical) to arrange something like this, so that anyone who needs healing can get to it within a round.
Ut-Napishtim 04-14-05, 07:33 AM	Probably the easiest and most expedient way. Only requires a 5th level caster too. I agree. Conjurer's rule. :cheer:
discipleofevil 04-14-05, 12:02 PM	just think immunity to fire or magic, depending which the dm wants to call it use spells like dimension door. door up there and imidiately grab and door out water maybe?? i mean fire and water dont mix right? wall of ice? cone of cold? shape stone and make a cover on the flames? think out side the box buddy
wcwlc 04-14-05, 11:58 PM	When we throw a rock in it disintegrated....so I don't think I will be dimension door in anytime soon.... It is not a traditional fire...more like..MAGIC fire that disintegrates everything it touchs, EXCEPT THE STUPID KEY. :confused:
SnowbearK 04-15-05, 01:29 AM	Then you're having...issues. ;) Even magic fire won't harm a Fire elemental. :D
philopharynx 04-15-05, 10:16 AM	It sounds like the DM has puzzleitis. This is when they've thought of a really cool puzzle and a great solution, and they won't let any creative thinking on the part of his players ruin his fun of making you come up with the exact same solution he thought of. What's worse is that puzzleitis usually comes with vagus descriptus, a condition that causes the DM to describe things in such a way that you have a different idea of the situation than they do, thus making sure that you will never think of the "obvious solution" that the DM wants. The only solution to this is to take a page from the "Stupid house rules" forum and shoot your DM. in the face. with a hammer.
nightwing 04-15-05, 11:13 AM	how about if you dig up the fire pit, fire and all, then carry the whole kit n' kaboodle (fire still raging, key still floating) to the cave where you need the key? It sounds like you just need to avoid touching the fire, not necesarily the ground under the fire! Heck, if all else fails, use the disintegrating fire to disintegrate your way into the cave instead of using the stinking keys! That'll show your DM not to make up silliness like that again... Come on, all-powerful, disintegrate-everything flame? Please. Get me some of that so I can torch all of my opponents, too.
psionichamster 04-15-05, 11:15 AM	too bad you don't have any spellfire wielders in the group...they could likely just absorb the heat/magic and grab the key, tut sweet barring that, if it's magic, use magic to counter it. dispel the flames, AMF, (NOT disjunction!!!), and greater dispel are your friends here if it's light-sensitive, perhaps a light source (daylight or the equiv.) could help you out, or some moonlight could cool the flames...(sunlight=hot, moonlight=cool?) personally, i'd just telekinesis the thing out, and if that didn't work, disintigrate the door it belongs to...(or creation/fabricate a copy...) namaste, the hamster
Ut-Napishtim 04-15-05, 11:44 AM	Heck, if all else fails, use the disintegrating fire to disintegrate your way into the cave instead of using the stinking keys! That'll show your DM not to make up silliness like that again... Come on, all-powerful, disintegrate-everything flame? Please. Get me some of that so I can torch all of my opponents, too. Big money, big prizes, I love it! :D
kliate 04-16-05, 12:17 PM	Use detect magic, and pay close attention to anything that reads as Evocation (fire) or Conjuration (fire). If you find a likely source of the fire, give this spell a try: Quench Transmutation Level: Drd 3 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Area or Target: One 20-ft. cube/level (S) or one fire-based magic item Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None or Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: No or Yes (object) Quench is often used to put out forest fires and other conflagrations. It extinguishes all nonmagical fires in its area. The spell also dispels any fire spells in its area, though you must succeed on a dispel check (1d20 +1 per caster level, maximum +15) against each spell to dispel it. The DC to dispel such spells is 11 + the caster level of the fire spell. Each elemental (fire) creature within the area of a quench spell takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6, no save allowed). Alternatively, you can target the spell on a single magic item that creates or controls flame. The item loses all its fire-based magical abilities for 1d4 hours unless it succeeds on a Will save. (Artifacts are immune to this effect.) Emphasis added, and hope it's not an artifact generating the effect.
Lobo13 04-16-05, 05:11 PM	If your DM is a literal type o' dude, maybe he put emphasis on the word "hand" and you have to use your feet to get it... Lobo13, bringin you gnomes without legs since 1992.
Shaken, not Stunned 04-16-05, 07:13 PM	It sounds like the DM has puzzleitis. This is when they've thought of a really cool puzzle and a great solution, and they won't let any creative thinking on the part of his players ruin his fun of making you come up with the exact same solution he thought of. What's worse is that puzzleitis usually comes with vagus descriptus, a condition that causes the DM to describe things in such a way that you have a different idea of the situation than they do, thus making sure that you will never think of the "obvious solution" that the DM wants. My thoughts exactly. I would suggest you try your damndest to think of the solution your DM has in mind, and if that fails, try the fire elemental thing. If all of this fails, the DM will probobly give it to you. After the game, you may want to suggest he read this thread. Especially this: There is always more than one solution to any problem, and it the responsibility of the DM to allow those logical solutions to work. Creating uber-fire to thwart ingenuity is not cool. Just because you have a neat idea doesn't make it the only idea, nor does it mean it should be what the players do.