Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Milo_Le_Barde 12-19-06, 10:30 PM	I'm not sure if this belongs in the correct forum, but if it doesn't, then maybe the administrators could move it? Well anyways, there's been a player that's been showing up to several of our DnD meetings now. The first time he was invited, was a self invitation. This was because he found out that somebody wasn't going to show up, so he asked the DM if he could come, and the DM being afraid of hurting his feelings, agreed to it. That was stupid move number one. Stupid move number two, was when a friend of mine (who also plays with us) praised his knowledge of the game and inadvertently implied that he should arrive at the next game as well. We agreed to it, at the time, thinking he wouldn't be too much of a problem, and that we could really use his DnD book smarts to help our way through this campaign. We were horribly wrong. He turned out to be a nightmare. Incredibly immature, and always obnoxious. He complains about us not being concentrated on the game, but more than half the time he's screaming and running around and complaining about the campaign. Without fail, he'll apologize to each one of us formally the next day, making it that much harder to kick him out. The DM and the group is now at a loss of idea of what to do with this guy! He's annoying, hardly ever plays, and has an extremely perverted view of the game (in a sexual sense). The thing is, the DM doesn't want to be the one to kick him out, so everytime we ask him about the status of "Ben" (let's call the annoying guy Ben), he yells and says "YOU guys get rid of him! You're the players! You're the ones complaining! Even though we all know the DM hates him as much as we do! I think this is incredibly unfair, considering that the DM doesn't even like Ben anymore than we do, and that the DM is the sole reason he even showed up the first time. What are we to do? And is it fair for the DM to force us, the players, to do the dirty work?
CryoSilver 12-19-06, 10:32 PM	Sit him down and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." If he retorts, hit him with a folding chair until he stops twitching. Wait until he wakes up. Put him back in his chair and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." Repeat this process until he quivers at the very sight of a folding chair.
Milo_Le_Barde 12-19-06, 10:34 PM	Sit him down and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." If he retorts, hit him with a folding chair until he stops twitching. Wait until he wakes up. Put him back in his chair and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." Repeat this process until he quivers at the very sight of a folding chair. The sad thing is that we have tried telling him this. He literally just ignores it, and goes on with his inappropriate behavior. We even make fun of him (in a friendly, yet meanish way), and complain about him RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, hoping he'll get angry at us and leave! Without fail, he stays! Quite sad, actually.
Dontan 12-19-06, 10:36 PM	Are you actually calling him Steve? You're supposed to, even if it's not his name. It works... Trust me.
CryoSilver 12-19-06, 10:37 PM	Have you used the words "you are being a douchebag?" I find those to have a lot of impact. Don;t be subtle. Subtlety is an unfortunate side-effect of political correctness. But every time you force yourself to be politically correct, Pelor rapes and immolates a kitten. Say straight up: "You are being a disruptive jackass, and it is annoying the hell out of me. Grow the hell up or get the hell out."
theotherdraxen 12-19-06, 10:40 PM	The DM is normally the social organizer, and is thus expected to deal with things such as this. Is this so in your case?
Milo_Le_Barde 12-19-06, 10:41 PM	The DM is normally the social organizer, and is thus expected to deal with things such as this. Is this so in your case? Yes it is. His house, his rules, his chosen time frame.
CryoSilver 12-19-06, 10:43 PM	Have the DM tell off Steve, then.
Milo_Le_Barde 12-19-06, 10:45 PM	Okay, thanks for the support guys! All i have to do is provide the DM with a link to this thread, and hopefully this problem will be taken care of by this weekend!
CryoSilver 12-19-06, 10:46 PM	Glad to help. Be sure you call the guy Steve. Steve is the official name of bad players.
jeffepp 12-19-06, 11:19 PM	You could all have burning torches behind your chairs, and a chair with a unlit torch waiting for him. Then inform him that "Steve, the tribal counsel has spoken...."
storm_wolf 12-19-06, 11:36 PM	He turned out to be a nightmare. Incredibly immature, and always obnoxious. He complains about us not being concentrated on the game, but more than half the time he's screaming and running around and complaining about the campaign. Without fail, he'll apologize to each one of us formally the next day, making it that much harder to kick him out. Just as an aside to the "bad behavior followed by apologies" part, if the person continually does the same behavior, and you always forgive them when they apologize, even after it has happened several times, they aren't really sorry, they are just playing for sympathy. Don't give in, kick them out...
theotherdraxen 12-19-06, 11:45 PM	Glad to help. Be sure you call the guy Steve. Steve is the official name of bad players. No wonder Fluffy kicked his ass. The DM was fudging to screw him over! Anyway, Steve probably needs to be told to grow up or get out. Treat him in a civil fashion, but don't pity him.
the_rooster 12-20-06, 12:25 AM	As a slightly less intense response, it sounds like he is looking for attention and hugs So instead of telling him off--giving him attention--just tell him that everyone will like plaing with him better if he settles down and acts normal. the trick is to show him he can be part of the group, get attention and be liked without acting up. Then if he doesn't stop, break out the folding chair.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-20-06, 12:36 AM	Kick his ass out. Make your TestFort save and toss him. It's really only as difficult as you choose to make it.
johnkretzer 12-20-06, 01:55 AM	This is always tough (especialy in these PC days) in any situration. Personaly I always think it is better if both the players and the DM say,"Steve we are sorry but you are being a douch please leave."( I like this Steve thing I got to give it a try). Though that is tough to do. So the question is do you have someone in your group that can be the hatchet guy? I mean I had to kick out a player from the group that nobody liked (though he was a problem I didn't think he was that bad). I did this on my own because everybody used endlessly talked about how much they hated 'steve'. They wouldn't say anything to his face of course. So one day I said kindly to 'steve' ,"I am sorry but people have problems with you,etc., etc. I don't think it is good for everybody if you continue to play." "But..." "Steve I am being nice but the bottom line is go away." There was someone else that we planned to ask to take a vacation from the group( personaly he needed to get his life back on track and not be gaming as much as he did), who find out about it and left. My only advice is be straight foward with him. (By the way is name wouldn't happen to be John or Geoff? You can answear me in PM)
KurenaiYami 12-20-06, 02:14 AM	Sit him down and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." If he retorts, hit him with a folding chair until he stops twitching. Wait until he wakes up. Put him back in his chair and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." Repeat this process until he quivers at the very sight of a folding chair. My psych 01 memory is fading. Is this Classical or Operant conditioning?
J.Augustus Rose II 12-20-06, 04:27 AM	Steve is the official name of bad players. Hey! I resemble that remark! :weep:
KurenaiYami 12-20-06, 04:34 AM	Hey! I resemble that remark! :weep: Really? You look nothing like the remark to me.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 12:53 PM	My psych 01 memory is fading. Is this Classical or Operant conditioning? My major is engineering. I'm more concerned with running stress analysis on the chair.
High Octane 12-20-06, 12:57 PM	My major is engineering. I'm more concerned with running stress analysis on the chair. Once again I risk my job because this made me laugh at work. Out loud.
High Octane 12-20-06, 12:58 PM	Sit him down and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." If he retorts, hit him with a folding chair until he stops twitching. Wait until he wakes up. Put him back in his chair and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." Repeat this process until he quivers at the very sight of a folding chair. There are FOUR lights!! *WHAM!* ....okay five.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 01:01 PM	"What's 2 plus 2, Steve? Do you love Big Brother yet?"
Nived 12-20-06, 01:13 PM	You are suffering from one of the Geek Social Fallacies (http://sean.chittenden.org/humor/www.plausiblydeniable.com/opinion/gsf.html). Don't worry we all do sometimes and you can be helped. You and your group are suffering from Fallacy #1 Geek Social Fallacy #1: Ostracizers Are Evil GSF1 is one of the most common fallacies, and one of the most deeply held. Many geeks have had horrible, humiliating, and formative experiences with ostracism, and the notion of being on the other side of the transaction is repugnant to them. In its non-pathological form, GSF1 is benign, and even commendable: it is long past time we all grew up and stopped with the junior high popularity games. However, in its pathological form, GSF1 prevents its carrier from participating in -- or tolerating -- the exclusion of anyone from anything, be it a party, a comic book store, or a web forum, and no matter how obnoxious, offensive, or aromatic the prospective excludee may be. As a result, nearly every geek social group of significant size has at least one member that 80% of the members hate, and the remaining 20% merely tolerate. If GSF1 exists in sufficient concentration -- and it usually does -- it is impossible to expel a person who actively detracts from every social event. GSF1 protocol permits you not to invite someone you don't like to a given event, but if someone spills the beans and our hypothetical Cat **** Man invites himself, there is no recourse. You must put up with him, or you will be an Evil Ostracizer and might as well go out for the football team. This phenomenon has a number of unpleasant consequences. For one thing, it actively hinders the wider acceptance of geek-related activities: I don't know that RPGs and comics would be more popular if there were fewer trolls who smell of cheese hassling the new blood, but I'm sure it couldn't hurt. For another, when nothing smacking of social selectiveness can be discussed in public, people inevitably begin to organize activities in secret. These conspiracies often lead to more problems down the line, and the end result is as juvenile as anything a seventh-grader ever dreamed of. The best solution is to be straight forward about it. He's at fault not you, not your group. Let me repeat that you are not at fault. Do not feel guilty about not wanting to be with an annoying, disruptive, insulting person. Tell him "We don't want you at our game, you are being disruptive."
High Octane 12-20-06, 01:29 PM	The best thing you can do is kick the player, after trying your damndest to get him to shape up. The worst thing you can do for someone with this issue is tolerate him and talk about him behind his back. He wont learn social grace if everything he does is tolerated. Ive been that annoying guy, and never knew it, because no one called me on it. They just mysteriously stopped calling or hanging around. I never knew what I was doing. It took me a while to learn any social grace and I still have trouble. Had my peers been honest, I would have been saved a lot of anguish. Do the right thing and knock his ass to reality.
FeceMan 12-20-06, 01:44 PM	My psych 01 memory is fading. Is this Classical or Operant conditioning? Operant. Classical conditioning will also occur as he associates chairs with pain.
Puca 12-20-06, 02:02 PM	Just as an aside to the "bad behavior followed by apologies" part, if the person continually does the same behavior, and you always forgive them when they apologize, even after it has happened several times, they aren't really sorry, they are just playing for sympathy. Don't give in, kick them out... I second this. I have to tell my child: Sorry doesnt cut it. I dont want you to be sorry. I want you to do the right thing. Treat him like a three-year-old. He's acting like one.
albinomonkeyking 12-20-06, 02:11 PM	Ive been that annoying guy, and never knew it, because no one called me on it. They just mysteriously stopped calling or hanging around. I never knew what I was doing. ..James? Is that you? On a sidenote, this thread wins, always and forever. Furthermore, should I ever have a disagreement with you, CryoSilver, I won't be able to get angry because of the hilarity in this thread. Thank you.
High Octane 12-20-06, 02:21 PM	..James? Is that you? No.
Volafor 12-20-06, 02:33 PM	Anyway, Steve probably needs to be told to grow up or get out. Treat him in a civil fashion, but don't pity him. Agreed. Steve is basically begging for attention, and for that he needs a dog, not a gaming group. ;) If you've tried different tactics, and the situation isn't improving, it's likely not going to. Kick him out. On a side note, I hope your DM has the grace to be embarrassed about foisting this whole thing off on you players. He should at least back you up, especially if he feels the same.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 04:43 PM	On a sidenote, this thread wins, always and forever. Furthermore, should I ever have a disagreement with you, CryoSilver, I won't be able to get angry because of the hilarity in this thread. Thank you. You wouldn't be able to get angry because if you got into an argument with me, you'd likely be suffering from severe chair trauma, which would impair your mental functioning.
High Octane 12-20-06, 06:53 PM	You wouldn't be able to get angry because if you got into an argument with me, you'd likely be suffering from severe chair trauma, which would impair your mental functioning. CryoSilver attended the same debate classes as Black Mage.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 06:58 PM	It isn't so much a debate as it is me hitting you with a chair until you agree.
High Octane 12-20-06, 08:25 PM	It isn't so much a debate as it is me hitting you with a chair until you agree. Exactly. Quid Quo Pro.
Ashok_Lal 12-20-06, 08:33 PM	The best thing you can do is kick the player, after trying your damndest to get him to shape up. The worst thing you can do for someone with this issue is tolerate him and talk about him behind his back. He wont learn social grace if everything he does is tolerated. Ive been that annoying guy, and never knew it, because no one called me on it. They just mysteriously stopped calling or hanging around. I never knew what I was doing. It took me a while to learn any social grace and I still have trouble. Had my peers been honest, I would have been saved a lot of anguish. Do the right thing and knock his ass to reality. So how were you made to realise you were a "Steve"? Was it just something you worked out after a while as you matured? Were you told off by a group? However you found out, might be the key to help this "Steve" OR Stand united! All i hear nobody wants to tell him. The DM won't tell him i wont tell him. the other players won't tell him. No wander he's not getting the message. EVERYBODY needs to tell him!
ladyeve 12-20-06, 08:39 PM	I'm not sure if this belongs in the correct forum, but if it doesn't, then maybe the administrators could move it? Well anyways, there's been a player that's been showing up to several of our DnD meetings now. The first time he was invited, was a self invitation. This was because he found out that somebody wasn't going to show up, so he asked the DM if he could come, and the DM being afraid of hurting his feelings, agreed to it. That was stupid move number one. Stupid move number two, was when a friend of mine (who also plays with us) praised his knowledge of the game and inadvertently implied that he should arrive at the next game as well. We agreed to it, at the time, thinking he wouldn't be too much of a problem, and that we could really use his DnD book smarts to help our way through this campaign. We were horribly wrong. He turned out to be a nightmare. Incredibly immature, and always obnoxious. He complains about us not being concentrated on the game, but more than half the time he's screaming and running around and complaining about the campaign. Without fail, he'll apologize to each one of us formally the next day, making it that much harder to kick him out. The DM and the group is now at a loss of idea of what to do with this guy! He's annoying, hardly ever plays, and has an extremely perverted view of the game (in a sexual sense). The thing is, the DM doesn't want to be the one to kick him out, so everytime we ask him about the status of "Ben" (let's call the annoying guy Ben), he yells and says "YOU guys get rid of him! You're the players! You're the ones complaining! Even though we all know the DM hates him as much as we do! I think this is incredibly unfair, considering that the DM doesn't even like Ben anymore than we do, and that the DM is the sole reason he even showed up the first time. What are we to do? And is it fair for the DM to force us, the players, to do the dirty work? No it is not fair. But if he wont do it someone else should.
High Octane 12-20-06, 09:37 PM	So how were you made to realise you were a "Steve"? Was it just something you worked out after a while as you matured? Were you told off by a group? However you found out, might be the key to help this "Steve" OR Stand united! All i hear nobody wants to tell him. The DM won't tell him i wont tell him. the other players won't tell him. No wander he's not getting the message. EVERYBODY needs to tell him! Well when instead of dealing with my apparant irritating of a group the DM killed off my character via a 100 foot pit with a trap specifically designed to lure MY character, and chuckled about how I had just made a character history and image, I left the group only to find out from one of the few honest people in that group that most everyone didnt appreciate my presence and thats why the DM did that.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 10:05 PM	I feel somewhat proud that the name Steve has been maligned primarily by my efforts.
Milo_Le_Barde 12-20-06, 10:35 PM	Guys, guys. Thank you all for your abundant advice, but today i've been faced with a new problem. First of all, Steve's grandpa died a few days ago, so now he's out of town for his funeral and such. As if it wasn't hard enough to kick him out, this made it that much harder. (As cliche as it sounds, his grandfather really DID die! I'm not making this stuff up!) And secondly, the DM absolutely refuses to give him the boot. I told him all of the things you guys told me; that he's the social organizer, that he's the DM, that it's his house, and that he should be the one to kick him. But in an unforseen twist of events, he reveals that he actually has no problem with Steve, and that WE should kick him out! Does the "social organizer" rule still come into play in a situation such as this?
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 10:36 PM	Tell your DM that Steve is a douchebag, and it's him or you guys. DMs are a dime a dozen, and unless this guy is absolutely amazing, it ain't worth it. D&D is a game, and games are supposed to be fun. If it ain't fun, you're doin' it wrong, because that's the only way to play D&D wrong, is to not have fun.
Milo_Le_Barde 12-20-06, 10:41 PM	Yes, but therein lies another problem. This DM is a really close friend of mine, and everybody in the group is a close friend of everybody else. There's no way the whole group would leave just beacuse of the presence of Steve, but i absolutely would. He seems to be the most mean towards me, referring to my intellect in a dimunitive manner, all because i like to joke around and pretend as though i'm dimwitted, although i'm actually rather intelligent. If there's going to be a hatchet guy, it's going to be me, but the problem is, is that i'm one of Steve's closest friends, and Steve doesn't have very many friends. There are a couple of other hatchet guys in the group, but they're not really willing to do it either. I AM in a d20 modern group... and guess who DMs it? The Steve that is being taken into account right here! This is the main reason nobody wants to cut him, because most of us are part of his group, and the people that aren't in his group don't feel too badly towards him. This situation is much more difficult than even I thought... which is why i'm asking for your guys' help.
CryoSilver 12-20-06, 10:48 PM	Hey man, if he's bothering you, tell him to stop. If not, leave. See, the great thing about life is that it's only as complicated as you're willing to let it get. Your happiness necessarily comes first. If Steve impedes that, you have to stop it. Tell him to stop being a douchebag. That's all there is to it.
Ashok_Lal 12-20-06, 11:55 PM	OR Stand united! All i hear nobody wants to tell him. The DM won't tell him i wont tell him. the other players won't tell him. No wander he's not getting the message. EVERYBODY needs to tell him! I still stand by this
Doc225 12-21-06, 12:34 AM	Well, my name is Steve, (I blame my dad, he's a Steve too) and I know that if I were the kind of Steve you are dealing with I would want someone to tell me. The thing to rememebr about "making fun" is that for alot of guys, "making fun" is how they show acceptance. My friends and I make fun of each other constantly. You need to sit "Steve" down and talk to him... without making jokes.
FeceMan 12-21-06, 12:37 AM	What's a Steve?
OneWinged4ngel 12-21-06, 12:37 AM	Sit him down and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." If he retorts, hit him with a folding chair until he stops twitching. Wait until he wakes up. Put him back in his chair and say: "Steve, you are being a douchebag. Stop it. Stop it now." Repeat this process until he quivers at the very sight of a folding chair. :heehee I agree. I mean, in these sort of situations, you just have to ask the age old question: WWJD? Of course, everyone's favorite savior of the game would do what Cryosilver suggested. (/Blasphemy. You're all stunned with no save. Bwahahahhahaha!)
johnkretzer 12-21-06, 01:00 AM	Yes, but therein lies another problem. This DM is a really close friend of mine, and everybody in the group is a close friend of everybody else. There's no way the whole group would leave just beacuse of the presence of Steve, but i absolutely would. He seems to be the most mean towards me, referring to my intellect in a dimunitive manner, all because i like to joke around and pretend as though i'm dimwitted, although i'm actually rather intelligent. If there's going to be a hatchet guy, it's going to be me, but the problem is, is that i'm one of Steve's closest friends, and Steve doesn't have very many friends. There are a couple of other hatchet guys in the group, but they're not really willing to do it either. As for the DM thing, i'd gladly leave this group, although he's an incredibly good friend of mine. He doesn't plan, he's not too eloquent, and frankly, his gameplay is always rather... empty? I'll refrain myself from going on about this, just in case he finds this thread. There are no other people willing to play DnD, let alone DM a group. I AM in a d20 modern group... and guess who DMs it? The Steve that is being taken into account right here! This is the main reason nobody wants to cut him, because most of us are part of his group, and the people that aren't in his group don't feel too badly towards him. This situation is much more difficult than even I thought... which is why i'm asking for your guys' help. Yeah it seems to just be getting more and more complicated. And well you 'll need to damage too many chairs to fix with CryoSilver eloquent solution. If you want my advice find another group. Or start another group. Also this might be a personal question but. How good friends are these people that they will tolerate someone that constantly is belittling you? You are also saying 'steve' is one your closest friends yet he makes you feel like this? I think you need to redefine you defination of friend. Can you give us the whole story. I am having problems with the contradications. I am not saying this is a deliberate attempt to mislead us or anything. But I am now confused about it.
icecoldkiller 12-21-06, 01:06 AM	personally i think that u should gather your entire group inculding steve, and disscuss this matter with him. he may not realise it but he is being disruptive. u should everyone speak very serriously about his behavior to his face. after this give him one more chance. if his behavior dosent improve then its time 4 him 2 go.
Yokomohoyo 12-21-06, 01:36 AM	You have a player that is bugging the group? Don't want him to come back? Fine this is quite simple. Just dont let him in to the house. Its as simple as that. When he asks why he can't come in then jsut say that he's not welcome here anymore.
KurenaiYami 12-21-06, 02:33 AM	What's a Steve? A bad player who is often being a douchebag. I think. You will need to ask Cryo to be sure. Edit: Only when used when discussing D&D, of course. Outside D&D, Steve could probably represent any douchebag.
Templetroll 12-21-06, 04:59 AM	This sounds like a younger group of players since there is this belittling of each other amongst "friends" and all this angsting over a jerk's feelings. If 'Steve' is bringing unwanted sexual comments into the game then tell the DMs Mom and Dad about Steve. Trust me, parents will not hesitate to boot Steve to the curb! If that won't work, for whatever reason you come up with next, then you need to tell Steve to knock off the insults or you kick his nads so hard he ends up with three Adam's apples! If he doesn't believe you take a test punt. If that doesn't work you're a troll and when I think you're a troll it is really bad.
pita 12-21-06, 08:45 AM	Steve should be added to the Snuggywug dictionary. John should also, as a good DM. "The Steve made a sparkly shiny paladin snuggywug, but it was of the le d'oh kind. What do I do?" Oh, I can see the debates.
CryoSilver 12-21-06, 09:35 AM	What's a Steve? A Steve is someone who ruins the game for everyone else. Steve is synonomous with "dick," "douchebag," "jerk," or any other mild to moderate insulting term, and is the pronoun form of them in the context of D&D. I invented the term because I needed a name for such players, and I've never really liked the name Steve.
Ryusage 12-21-06, 12:00 PM	DMs are a dime a dozen Excuse me? Good DMs can be hard to find, and if this on is decent at all, the OP will kick this guy out to avoid having to search for another good DM.
CryoSilver 12-21-06, 12:07 PM	Dms are much easier to find than you'd think, and if Steve is going to ruin the game and can't be made to leave, even after the chair treatment, well, then it doesn't even matter how good the DM is.
theotherdraxen 12-21-06, 07:16 PM	If the DM refuses to provide the majority of his players with a fun game (i.e., by kicking Steve out), then he is not a good DM. Therefore, even if you do leave, you don't need to find a good DM, just one that's better than the old.
UltimateReality 12-21-06, 07:41 PM	I invented the term because I needed a name for such players, and I've never really liked the name Steve.Funnily enough, I know a Steve who actually is an annoying player. I don't have much luck with Dan/Danny/variants thereof either.
CryoSilver 12-21-06, 07:47 PM	I only know two guys named Danny, and they're pretty chill. Neither plays D&D
Prak, the Mad 12-21-06, 08:01 PM	My major is engineering. I'm more concerned with running stress analysis on the chair. My main skill is art, and my tastes run towards Jhonen Vasquez stuff. I'm more concerned about haveing suitable numbers of chairs, and a grate for the blood to drain into.
CryoSilver 12-21-06, 08:46 PM	Dealing With Steves: a Handy Guide (http://www.geocities.com/absolutecryogenic/dnd/steve.pdf) http://www.filefactory.com/file/e34270/ ^ Alternative Link
High Octane 12-21-06, 11:15 PM	Dealing With Steves: a Handy Guide (http://www.geocities.com/absolutecryogenic/dnd/steve.pdf) http://www.filefactory.com/file/e34270/ ^ Alternative Link Wow. Steve's sister is hot. And Im not gay, but thats a sexy brother.
Sir_Jack_Sparrow 12-22-06, 12:27 AM	The thing to rememebr about "making fun" is that for alot of guys, "making fun" is how they show acceptance. My friends and I make fun of each other constantly. You need to sit "Steve" down and talk to him... without making jokes. This is exactly what i was thinking, the odd thing about most groups of friends is that as long as your accepted you will be verbally abused on a regular basis, however the fellow that one one really likes for some reason often just gets ignored. the thing is no one want to say somethign nasty if they actually MEAN it. so what happens, people try to give steve the HINT, and its taken as social acceptence, because now people are joking around with him and insulting him like one of the guys. someone needs to say to steve that his antics are not appreciated, and while the group may joke around there is a line that no one crosses, but he frequently does, and it would be appreciated if he would refrain from that kind of behaviour as it causes tension. the whole thing needs to be said in a very serious tone and done one on one, if its done in a group either he will be embarrassed, or take it as the group just giving him a ahrd time, neither is actually effective. and honestly if that dosent work get two or thre players together and tell steve outside of game time that he is too disrupting and if he comes to play next time you will all walk, once you walk once he will get the hint, sure it will kill a session one week, but thats life.
Guroth the Forsaken 12-22-06, 09:07 AM	The answer is very simple. If the DM doesn't have the balls to take care of the issue, you need to, or else you're going to be miserable. :(
draco1119 12-22-06, 09:40 AM	Dealing With Steves: a Handy Guide (http://www.geocities.com/absolutecryogenic/dnd/steve.pdf) http://www.filefactory.com/file/e34270/ ^ Alternative Link Cryo, you are a comedic genius! (BTW, where'd you find that pic of Steve's hot sister? :drool:)
Sir_Jack_Sparrow 12-22-06, 09:53 AM	ok settle down guys, and remember its because of picture like that that steve makes such rude comments at the gaming table
konrad_the_tall 12-22-06, 10:47 AM	dead bodies?
CryoSilver 12-22-06, 11:42 AM	Cryo, you are a comedic genius! (BTW, where'd you find that pic of Steve's hot sister? :drool:) Thanks. And I just googled "schoolgirl" to find the pic.
aotrscommander 12-22-06, 12:14 PM	Dealing With Steves: a Handy Guide (http://www.geocities.com/absolutecryogenic/dnd/steve.pdf) http://www.filefactory.com/file/e34270/ ^ Alternative Link I am afraid, CyroSilver, I am going to have to award you an Awesome point for that. My personal solution is just to go into a berserk spell-frenzy and Maximise Disintigrate everything in sight 1, including, but not limited to, Steve, the other players, the DM, Steve's cat/goldfish and the entire local population, as spells, time and irritation permits. Assuming you care to Resurrect/Revivify Undead/Wish the victims afterward, you should find they listen to your commands...ah, I mean opinions with the unhesitating obedience you so rightly deserve. Yes, even the DM (unles of course you are the DM, in which case your authority is a given anyway.) Obviously, this method only works if you are high-level spell caster (though any high-tech energy weapon would serve as a substitute) and it is helpful to have a steady supply of prison- ah, new players to add to your game. 1Except your roleplaying gear, obviously.
CryoSilver 12-22-06, 10:37 PM	Ah, but I have the mighty Folding Chair of Salvation to help me deal with Steve.
ToxicDragon 12-22-06, 10:50 PM	You are saying he’s annoying but then he does a good job apologizing, and to top it off your DM doesn’t have the courage or the equivalent to kick him out after repeated annoyances. In my opinion, it’s no longer fun to play your DMs game with this guy in it. Talk with the group and tell them this is how you feel. Even lay out the option that you will not play unless this guy is excommunicated from sessions. Besides, it’s not your call on who plays your DM’s game, it’s the DM’s. If your DM agrees that he hates the guy so much, ask him for permission to tell this guy he can’t play anymore, and then ask your DM to back you up on it when this “Ben” calls the him and asks him what’s going on. One way or another, the DM is going to have to deal this info out to Ben personally.
Milo_Le_Barde 12-23-06, 01:40 AM	Yeah it seems to just be getting more and more complicated. And well you 'll need to damage too many chairs to fix with CryoSilver eloquent solution. If you want my advice find another group. Or start another group. Also this might be a personal question but. How good friends are these people that they will tolerate someone that constantly is belittling you? You are also saying 'steve' is one your closest friends yet he makes you feel like this? I think you need to redefine you defination of friend. Can you give us the whole story. I am having problems with the contradications. I am not saying this is a deliberate attempt to mislead us or anything. But I am now confused about it. Sorry for the late response, i've kind of been under the weather for a while. About the friend thing, trust me, i have very very good friends. The reason they "don't care" is because i haven't told them that he belittles me. Quite frankly, this "Steve" character has little to no friends, and we're the only people he has. It's quite sad Here's the situation, in simple terms. This kid is in our group, after inviting himself in due to the absence of another player. Out of respect we accept him. He proves to be a worthy ally, and we imply that he should show up next week. He takes this as a full blown invitation, and shows up next week. At this point, he's A Okay, but showing signs of imaturity. By the third week, the kid is a headache. He's younger than us, has a different sense of humor, and is just a major dick. He constantly refers to himself as the "comissar" (he's heavily communistic) and plays with his knife all game long. The reason we don't wanna kick him out, is because we're his only friends, and he has nobody to hang out with. We basically have to hang out with him, and that's because he hangs out where we do, and i severely doubt anybody's gonna change their location just cause this guy's here, but i don't want him to feel alienated or ostracized by any means. So there's the situation, simple. I WISH we could just tell him to leave, but i feel like it's going to hurt him a lot, and he'll feel unwanted all around, and just end up being a loner.
storm_wolf 12-23-06, 03:30 AM	This kid is in our group, after inviting himself in due to the absence of another player. Out of respect we accept him. He proves to be a worthy ally, and we imply that he should show up next week. He takes this as a full blown invitation, and shows up next week. At this point, he's A Okay, but showing signs of imaturity. By the third week, the kid is a headache. He's younger than us, has a different sense of humor, and is just a major dick. He constantly refers to himself as the "comissar" (he's heavily communistic) and plays with his knife all game long. The reason we don't wanna kick him out, is because we're his only friends, and he has nobody to hang out with. We basically have to hang out with him, and that's because he hangs out where we do, and i severely doubt anybody's gonna change their location just cause this guy's here, but i don't want him to feel alienated or ostracized by any means. So there's the situation, simple. I WISH we could just tell him to leave, but i feel like it's going to hurt him a lot, and he'll feel unwanted all around, and just end up being a loner. Part of the problem here is that you have not set limits on his behavior. When he started to slide down the path of being a jerk, you should have stopped him at that point and said "you are being a jerk, cut it out or leave", and if he did not cut it out, he should have been told to leave. As for being his only friends, is that your fault that he has no friends, or his fault that his behavior is not conducive to people wanting to spend time with him? If his behavior is the problem, the best thing to do is to call him out on his attitude, and if he won't fix it, then either accept that you all are enabling his bad behavior, or take responsibility and tell him to go away. Oh, and lastly, he is acting like a Stalinist, not a Communist. Communism is about the people, and the community, Stalinist is about people with knives intimidating those around them...
draco1119 12-23-06, 04:05 AM	...By the third week, the kid is a headache. He's younger than us, has a different sense of humor, and is just a major dick. He constantly refers to himself as the "comissar" (he's heavily communistic) and plays with his knife all game long. The reason we don't wanna kick him out, is because we're his only friends, and he has nobody to hang out with. We basically have to hang out with him, and that's because he hangs out where we do, and i severely doubt anybody's gonna change their location just cause this guy's here, but i don't want him to feel alienated or ostracized by any means. So there's the situation, simple. I WISH we could just tell him to leave, but i feel like it's going to hurt him a lot, and he'll feel unwanted all around, and just end up being a loner. I've been reading this thread (and enjoying Cryo's "Steve solution") but this is the first time I've felt the need to join in. You see the two parts I bolded in your quote? Those don't sound like a Steve. Those scream "Trenchcoat Mafia!" to me. This honestly looks like something too big for you to handle. I'm guessing you guys are in school still, so my suggestion would be to talk to ANYONE who will listen, be it teacher, counselor, principal, whatever. But I think this could lead to some serious stuff down the line if you don't get anyone involved. Oh, and just to be on the safe side, carry a folding chair. :P
Rosary 12-23-06, 05:35 AM	I agree, Draco1119. This isn't a roleplaying issue - this is a complex, social problem. Not an unusual one, but nonetheless potentially devastating for the people involved, unless they get a little outside assistance. These boards (entertaining as they may be) may not be the best way to get that assistance however, since we don't know the specific persons involved or have the required competences. Milo, your situation is frustrating and you should talk to someone who knows you all - you, Steve and your friends. Nobody should be made to handle this kind of problem on their own. My own advice (if you feel you need it): I feel sorry for your friend, but as has been said, one does not become more socially adept by having ones intolerable behavior tolerated. Sincerely, Rosary
someonelse812 12-23-06, 12:16 PM	Glad to help. Be sure you call the guy Steve. Steve is the official name of bad players. there is a steve in my group, he is a pretty good player. I have played with bad players before though, they had other names I won't mention.
johnkretzer 12-23-06, 12:45 PM	Sorry for the late response, i've kind of been under the weather for a while. About the friend thing, trust me, i have very very good friends. The reason they "don't care" is because i haven't told them that he belittles me. Quite frankly, this "Steve" character has little to no friends, and we're the only people he has. It's quite sad Here's the situation, in simple terms. This kid is in our group, after inviting himself in due to the absence of another player. Out of respect we accept him. He proves to be a worthy ally, and we imply that he should show up next week. He takes this as a full blown invitation, and shows up next week. At this point, he's A Okay, but showing signs of imaturity. By the third week, the kid is a headache. He's younger than us, has a different sense of humor, and is just a major dick. He constantly refers to himself as the "comissar" (he's heavily communistic) and plays with his knife all game long. The reason we don't wanna kick him out, is because we're his only friends, and he has nobody to hang out with. We basically have to hang out with him, and that's because he hangs out where we do, and i severely doubt anybody's gonna change their location just cause this guy's here, but i don't want him to feel alienated or ostracized by any means. So there's the situation, simple. I WISH we could just tell him to leave, but i feel like it's going to hurt him a lot, and he'll feel unwanted all around, and just end up being a loner. Ok. It sounds like you are a nice guy, and I can respect that. Unfortuanly in my opinion though 'steve' doesn't respect this. I would kick him out. But here are some ways you might use to help 'steve' stop being a dick. 1) Ask the DM to institute a ban on playing with weapons at the table. Just say it is distracting you from the game. 2) Ask the 'steve' to refrain from calling himself 'commisar'. Why? Because it offends you on a personal level. If he just say he is sorry and continues it anyway. Point it out to him everytime he says it. Don't even wait for him to say it, at the start of every session just ask him not to do it. 3) When his sense of humor comes up, don't laugh. Sometime point out why said thing isn't funny. Then general idea of these things is everytime he does something that is socialy unacceptable ask him right there to please desist from these actions. If he starts to aplogize refuse to accept it and just say 'Don't do it again.' Just wondering how much younger is he?
someonelse812 12-23-06, 12:50 PM	Yes, but therein lies another problem. This DM is a really close friend of mine, and everybody in the group is a close friend of everybody else. There's no way the whole group would leave just beacuse of the presence of Steve, but i absolutely would. He seems to be the most mean towards me, referring to my intellect in a dimunitive manner, all because i like to joke around and pretend as though i'm dimwitted, although i'm actually rather intelligent. If there's going to be a hatchet guy, it's going to be me, but the problem is, is that i'm one of Steve's closest friends, and Steve doesn't have very many friends. There are a couple of other hatchet guys in the group, but they're not really willing to do it either. As for the DM thing, i'd gladly leave this group, although he's an incredibly good friend of mine. He doesn't plan, he's not too eloquent, and frankly, his gameplay is always rather... empty? I'll refrain myself from going on about this, just in case he finds this thread. There are no other people willing to play DnD, let alone DM a group. I AM in a d20 modern group... and guess who DMs it? The Steve that is being taken into account right here! This is the main reason nobody wants to cut him, because most of us are part of his group, and the people that aren't in his group don't feel too badly towards him. This situation is much more difficult than even I thought... which is why i'm asking for your guys' help. there are other groups, look here: http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupid=101706519&Mytoken=361721B5-DD93-46E9-99058EEE0896AC0C17869850 and here: http://boards1.wizards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=347 and here, this one is for michigan but I think they have one for every state: http://dnd.meetup.com/78/boards/ if you are still unable to find a game become a DM yourself. I recomend Scourge of the Howling Horde for a new DM, follow that up with gates of slaughtergarde and the red hand of doom. once you are ready to run your game invite your friends and if you cant get enough people put an add out online and in your local game store.
tuffn00gies 12-23-06, 01:53 PM	The sad thing is that we have tried telling him this. He literally just ignores it, and goes on with his inappropriate behavior. We even make fun of him (in a friendly, yet meanish way), and complain about him RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM, hoping he'll get angry at us and leave! Without fail, he stays! Quite sad, actually. The next step is to not let him in the door when he shows up on game night. Start the game 30 minutes earlier than he expects and lock the door after everyone but him shows up. He'll get the message eventually.
Drohem 12-23-06, 03:40 PM	Grow a spine and tell him he's not welcome anymore.
Keevo_Darkwood 12-23-06, 04:36 PM	So, let's review the situation. :thinks: The OP is wondering how to kick this "Steve" jackass, and CryoSilver (note to self: never bring the BoEF to his game without also bringing along some condoms :D ) has this wonderful folding chair with which to knock some sense into Steve's head. Methinks I can do both at once. Allow me to demonstrate. *Keevo drops the folding chair flat on the floor a few feet away from Steve, such that Steve is between it and him. After administering a good hard kick to Steve's gut, Steve doubles over in pain, giving Keevo the opportunity to place Steve's head between his knees, lift the rest of him off the ground, and perform a devastating flip piledriver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piledriver_%28professional_wrestling%29# Flip_piledriver), cracking Steve's mostly-empty brainpan wide open as it lands on the chair.* Ladies and gentlemen, my work here is done. *bows politely before departing to peruse other threads*
Cifer 12-23-06, 05:54 PM	Well, there is a simple option open to you: Ask your gaming group (no, not Ben/Steve) whether they would support you while you tell him off to his face. If they do so, do it. You blame your DM for not wishing to speak against Ben/Steve - why did you ask him in the first place? A DM has no authority outside of the game (*). Could it be that you too have a problem with confronting people?
tuffn00gies 12-24-06, 12:50 PM	Excuse me? Good DMs can be hard to find, and if this on is decent at all, the OP will kick this guy out to avoid having to search for another good DM. If this one was decent, he wouldn't let Steve ruin his games.