Post/Author/DateTime	Post
memno 07-23-05, 05:13 PM	Let me set the story up. The DM made his own campaigne setting. Hehad us role stats. and make characters. I decided to make a mercenary that captured runaway slaves. he agreed, and I started to work on him. The next day my dm gets ahold of me and says it just wasn't a good idea, the group needed to be chaotic neutrel. He liked that idea so much he really wanted to make my character an NPC. I was a little annoyed and flattered at the same time. So I get with the rest of the group and we decide to play run away slaves. I make an ex-pirate(read: rogue) that as soon as he escapes slavery wants to get his hands on a ship. Then the Dm decides to ad two other players. He runs there games seperately saying we will meet up and gives them way more play time, and cancels my side of the groups sessions all the time. My group finally gets a few adventures. I found that I love playing my character and talking and dressing(in-character) like a pirate. Everyone else found pictures that look like their character. I had a lot of trouble and was about ready to just buy a pirate miniature and paint it. anway the story our tiny ship pulls up to small port. As we get out the Cleric(owner of the ship) tells us to hurry. suddenly 5 big burly men jump out and threaten us. They want the cleric and we go free. I being the spokesperson of our group. said, "take him." So one of our group gets shot in the throat and dies, after we do as asked. long story short battle moves in land. The group takes heavy casaulties. I hide in rocks for a few rounds. I move back to the boat and grab its rope. I in the water drag it so i can hide in water if need be. I finally drag the boat to a spot they can retreat to. (side note i had to give up D&D for a few years, then when I got back in I was DM. This is my first character since 1998. I had so much fun playing this encounter.) We escape to a town. While going to get a detect magic cast, our group sees a gruesome rape in an alley. I step in and tell the 2 heathens to stop. they attack the group and are quickly dispatched. the woman faints, I take her to a local herb shop to get some help. she wakes up and ask why I killed her Brother and his freind(and yes they where raping her.) Night comes and I have gold in my pocket and treat the group to a night in the most luxurious tavern in the town. I introduce the Half-orc barb as MadZero, The Bastard. I tell grand stories of his exploits to all the ladies. So I have a lady for each group of the party, Me and 3 others. The pitfighter declines his and goes to bed.(player refuses any roleplay. he only rolls dice) So the barb and I do upstairs in the tavern to gamble. The local duke looks over at us and gives us a mean look. The Dm spends a lot of time talking about his long moustache. I go over to him and inform him if he doesn't change his expression, MadZero would change it for him. we sit down and play dice. I win 200gp and hed downstairs to drink some more. an hour later the duke comes down and him and his bully boys make a snide remark strait to my face. I tell him to **** off. He ask, "if I know who he is?" I say, "the person about to get punched in his face" MadZero, The "you know" jumps in raging, punches the duke out then moves on to the bully boys. I liberated the duke of half of his moustache. Mad zero, our women and myself at this point decide to take a walk. end game. 2 days later DM comes to my store. He looks at me, " you my want me to not hang out for a few days." I inquire why. " The duke had the Zero and you assassinated in your sleep." So now the character I liked so much was killed because: Dm stole my character idea Made the group play chaotic neutral made the duke not like my character for no apparent reason. punished me for staying in character. The charcater that only roles dice leveled. even if i had'nt died I still souldn't have leveled, so there is no experience in this game for role-playing. it all happened the week before the 2 groups met. I would have had my first chance at possibly being the leader of the group for the first time. I'm telling theDM, I'm not going to make a new character. He can alter that ending, or I just won't play. I don't enjoy wasting time making in depth characters so they can die on whim the doesn't even involve a dice role. It would have been so fun to have a pirate character that had an intense rivalry with a duke. anyway am I being to stubborn about feeling my character was messed over?
HappyDragon 07-23-05, 05:30 PM	Well Dukes can take a dislike to whomever they want.....Dukes can be like that. The problem however is that you were not even given a chance to roleplay out the attempted assassination. The DM just killed them off. That leads me to believe there are bigger problems at hand than just IG stuff. Have a talk with the DM and other players, but it just may be time to find another group.
memno 07-23-05, 05:45 PM	Have a talk with the DM and other players, but it just may be time to find another group. thats a hard one there. I am the owner of my towns gaming store. Unfortunately it slowly filling with drama, and who's-who. unfortunately I feel Im the least important person in my own store. Stuff like kids(15yrs old) coming and getting mad that their parents are coming to get them, while my wife and I idle in the parking lot at night waiting for their parents, expecting us to drive in the opposite direction from home all the way to the edge of town so their parents don't waste their gas. One guy likes to argue just to argue. People expect me to run games and let them use my books(this is why i no longer run games) other people come in and hang out all day and never spend a dime, and bother me while i am trying to run the other half of my bussiness(computer repair) but form this DM I never expected this. He is a good freind and knows there are better options than killing a loved character when a 5 minute redo would make half the group a lot happier, and the other group wouldn't care because they where not at the tavern.
Chaotic Nothing 07-23-05, 05:59 PM	did you take any precautions to avoid assassination, also, what about listen checks and whatnot? The assassination attempts shold be roleplayed, the Dm cant just shoow up and say things that happen to your characters, without you even being present.
Siduakal 07-23-05, 06:06 PM	To be fair.. Re-dos don't really work.. And you guys DID punch out a duke. My view is like this.. Duke didn't like you because you were.. A) Hogging the ladies.. B) Stealing the limelight.. or C) Both You attacked the duke and didn't kill him.. In public.. So the duke kills you two for A) Embarassing him... B) Disrespecting him.. or C) Both IMO, your character was being too arrogant. It's bound to get you killed at some point.
memno 07-23-05, 06:15 PM	IMO, your character was being too arrogant. It's bound to get you killed at some point. oh I agree, but I feel that after all the work I put into background and that I liked the character, I deserve more than a I decided lastnight that your character dies. Sure an assassin can kill my character, but I would appreciate my character going down like a man with rapier in hand. possibly a short rooftop chase that ends badly. Something that I can at least say, "well that's what happens." and not " man I hope the DM doesn't think about my character when he leaves."
Siduakal 07-23-05, 06:19 PM	Oh I agree.. He needs to RP it out. Give you a listen check in your sleep to see if you hear the assassin coming. If you don't.. give you the fortitude save against either Death Attack or Coup De Grace.. Just saying "You died! Bwahahaha" is wrong.
Cymraegmorgan 07-23-05, 07:26 PM	Judging by the tone of your posts, you were so excited to be playing this character that you forgot that there were other people at the table. You are playing a rogue travelling with a pit fighter and a barbarian. The player of the p-fpc is a dicer and a wargamer. You are really into the roleplaying. You could have, instead of trying to roleplay tavern hopping(boring to a lot of us), tried to wrangle a little exhibition with your two friends, letting them get to roll some dice and see some action while you rped your little heart out. As a DM I would not have killed your character, but, as another player I would have abandoned you as soon as I saw you were playing Chaotic Stupid instead of Chaotic Neutral. They want the cleric and we go free. I being the spokesperson of our group. said, "take him." That would have been, if I was one of the other players, when you would no longer speak for the group. Maybe even be in the group. Your DM's decision was an immature reaction to a maturity problem in a player.
Ulthwe 07-23-05, 07:39 PM	Cymraegmorgan has a point. As I can conclude from your story you where to busy Roleplaying yourself and not letting your partymembers have a share of their fun. At least for the pitfighter as the barbarian was right there with you having fun+ he had some action and he was killed just like you. So it sounds as though 2 partymembers had fun while another hadn't. I don't think your DM is such a bad guy and I think he came up for the 3d player in the group (who was probably boring himself to death). I say you make a new character and rejoin the group. I would however ask the DM why he killed you and tell him not to come with no IG **** just ask him to tell the trutth.
memno 07-23-05, 07:54 PM	Judging by the tone of your posts, you were so excited to be playing this character that you forgot that there were other people at the table. I did not steal the spotlight. But that is one of those thing that without actually being at the table cannot be proven. You are playing a rogue travelling with a pit fighter and a barbarian. The player of the p-fpc is a dicer and a wargamer. You are really into the roleplaying. You could have, instead of trying to roleplay tavern hopping(boring to a lot of us), tried to wrangle a little exhibition with your two friends, letting them get to roll some dice and see some action while you rped your little heart out. He snuck off to bed. When I DM for him I give him those type of streetfights every session. Why should I have to do this when I finally get to play. As a DM I would not have killed your character, but, as another player I would have abandoned you as soon as I saw you were playing Chaotic Stupid instead of Chaotic Neutral. How was I stupid? The Duke started trouble with 2 drunken adventurers. one of which is known for having an itchy sword finger (not my character) That would have been, if I was one of the other players, when you would no longer speak for the group. Maybe even be in the group. I saved their rears on several occaisons by talking for the group. I am the one person in the group that doesn't hack first, ask questions later. Notice in the boat scene I hid and got a way out of the fight for the group. 2 characters where knocked unconcious by archers 4 levels higher than the group. Your DM's decision was an immature reaction to a maturity problem in a player. So I am immature because I was with another player that was provoked by an Npc? You're the kettle calling the pot black. I may dissagree with my DM but I don't insult his intelligence. You on the other hand come in here and let loose a torrent of insults when all I want is to hear from others if a possible redo or roleplaying my characters death is too much to ask, before I coomit to another character.
Cymraegmorgan 07-23-05, 08:21 PM	As I said, I am judging you and your DM by the tone and content of your OP. You sound a bit desperate. That is not an insult it is merely an observation. Think about it. I weep to think that, as a longtime DM, you could not pursue more interesting roleplaying aspects in a new, possibly dangerous city than to try to pick up girls and start a bar fight. That you did not try to Bluff or Intimidate those that were after the cleric is strange for someone anxious to roleplay from the other side of the screen. The local Duke. :nonono: Dukes have power. You didn't stand a chance. He might have made a good contact if you had rped and finessed the situation. You are a Rogue, he is a Duke, in his own town, possibly the political center for a large and powerful territory. A good friend for a smart operator. A deadly enemy for a suicidally arrogant escaped slave. Intelligence and immaturity are not the same thing. It is very easy to have an abundance of one and a dirth of the other. when all I want is to hear from others if a possible redo or roleplaying my characters death is too much to ask, before I coomit to another character. Yes it is too much to ask until you solve a deeper group problem. Those are not insults they are informed experienced opinions based only on hearing your side.
Siduakal 07-23-05, 08:44 PM	Re-dos should always be disallowed.. We did one once, and it was for my sake.. and I regretted it after. I actually asked to just lose the character instead, because it altered the games feel far too much to think about the "Well if I die, I can redo!" thing..
darkness ninja of light 07-23-05, 09:04 PM	I agree with......Cymraegmorgan (yeesh I had to copy/paste that) pretty much, but that's not saying I'm against you. You have to understand that we only have your word to go by so we get a lot from your tone and what you say. We also have to try and see it from the DM's and the other player's points of view. From your original thread it sounded a lot like you were simply telling us a story and asking if you were right in thinking you were treated unfairly. Pretty much everyone, including me, is saying yes and saying that you should have gotten a fight or at least a listen check (if the DM DID roll Listen checks for you, he should have done them in front of you...and regardless of the outcome give you at least SOME chance to fight). So there you go. Like most, I suggest getting the exact Out-of-character AND In-character reasons why your DM killed your characters and then come back to us (since we probably all want to know now that we've heard the story). It just that the story we heard DOES give a great reason for the Duke not liking him and his backstory gives him grounds for a possible assassination (seems a bit harsh...why not just jailtime?). By "chaotic stupid" he simply meant that it seemed like you were taking "chaotic" in your alignment too far. It didn't sound to me like you were using "chaotic" as an excuse (except when you stated that being chaotic neutral was a reason you were killed), but it did seem like your character should have been a bit more cautious around a Duke (then again...was your character drunk? Hmmm...) and possibly a bit more thoughtful of the other players. Again, this is just what we pick up from reading your post, talk to the other players and see what they say. All in all, your DM was being somewhat realistic, but that's not always good for an adventure. "Re-do's" aren't very good for an adventure either. I would stay away from them. Then again, the fact that the assassination didn't happen while you were there is grounds for a possible "don't be stupid, that never happened" AS LONG AS you find the DM had a silly, OOC reason for it. EDIT: Scratch that. The simple fact that he just says "the duke killed your characters" is so mundane that I don't think a "re-do" would ruin the game. Get your assassin fight scene (or at least the listen checks). If you die, then at least you died fairly (check the assassin character sheet afterwards to see if the DM wrote "LVL: INFINITY" first though...just kidding just kidding). Then you can decide if you won't make a new character or walk (you may enjoy the new character just as much!). Stealing your character? Well, I suppose you could have said "no" but....well I probably wouldn't have either. How does him stealing your character have anything to do with how your character died though? I don't see it. The assassin could have been anybody. Hmmm... Well, that's all I can think of to say. It sounds like you're a great roleplayer and DM though. Edit: Forgot one thing.
Arkidisey 07-23-05, 10:15 PM	To be fair.. Re-dos don't really work.. And you guys DID punch out a duke. My view is like this.. Duke didn't like you because you were.. A) Hogging the ladies.. B) Stealing the limelight.. or C) Both You attacked the duke and didn't kill him.. In public.. So the duke kills you two for A) Embarassing him... B) Disrespecting him.. or C) Both IMO, your character was being too arrogant. It's bound to get you killed at some point. how can you say that? i mean, even so he's A: a pirate. B: a outlaw, (assuming your playing the right way of the pirate) and C: both. He wasn't even IN THE GAME when he was killed, therefore its not fair, because there was A: no roleplaying to even whatch this event. B: NO saving throws whatsoever, and C: HE WASN'T THERE! this should not go unpunished, or at least not stod for. My advice; talk to DM, find out exactly why, and explain to him these words: I wasn't there, and therefore its not fair. remember: D&D is a game ment to be PLAYED not to be INFORMED of...
memno 07-23-05, 10:35 PM	My Dm and I sat down and talked about it. We are going to Roleplay the death and make it nice and dramatic. He agreed if I play an outlaw that I should act like and outlaw, and my actions where appropriate as could be for my character. I agreed I messed with the wrong guy. I get to make a new character, it can be anything I want at 2nd lvl. I am still a little sore over losing this character. Im unsure of what to make. I was into that character. Im open to suggestions.
Loren Pechtel 07-23-05, 10:42 PM	Punched a duke in public and you don't expect repercussions?? I've never had a character pull anything like that but if someone did I would figure out what sort of resources the duke would put into retaliation. I would *NOT* be considering whether it was a balanced encounter. Pick on an NPC that's too powerful for you and it's your problem.
TheChilliGod 07-23-05, 11:12 PM	My Dm and I sat down and talked about it. We are going to Roleplay the death and make it nice and dramatic. He agreed if I play an outlaw that I should act like and outlaw, and my actions where appropriate as could be for my character. I agreed I messed with the wrong guy. I get to make a new character, it can be anything I want at 2nd lvl. I am still a little sore over losing this character. Im unsure of what to make. I was into that character. Im open to suggestions. Haven't heard of a wizard/sorcerer at all in the party yet. Maybe you'd like to play one of those as your next character? Or if you still feel like roleplaying, bards tend to make great roleplayers. They can make great spokespeople and with their perform skill can get money off a short while of work. I'd reckon bard would be the ideal class for your next character, even if it is a bit similar. If you can, push for a race with a small level adjustment (Tiefling?) for a little bit of uniqueness. Glad you got the original problem sorted out, btw.
LCD2YOU 07-23-05, 11:54 PM	If you were to do that in my game, RPing or not, you and your party better be pretty high level. If not, after the Duke gets done b!+ch slapping you in front of everyone, after his guards turn your knees to jelly and your stomach to mush before you got there. Then, he'd have a hole cut in your gut, about 1.5 inches, 3.8cm, below the navel. Then some guy reach in and attach your intestine to a horse and spur it on. Now, you'd still probably be alive when they attach your limbs with strong rope to four draft horses and pull you apart. That's called "drawn and quartered". Harsh? Yeah. Out of line? No. Strik a Duke, heck strike any noble when you are an untitled, uncouth noboby is a death sentence. That is a given. Even if you were having the best RP session of your life, you wouldn't make it out alive after doing that unless you could take out the Duke's troops. Sometimes RPing a character well can get them killed. What's more important is RPing smartly or just realizing that when you play a certain way, your PC can die.
Ni! 07-24-05, 12:25 AM	Realy, it sounds like your DM is a new DM with the same syndrome I have (I love betrayals/things where the PCs end up doing exactly the wrong thing because of lack of knowledge (such as killing the rapist, who happened to be her brother ) and I like showing the players "If you screw with the wrong people, bad things will happen") While it sounds like it is somewhat unfair not to play out the death, what playing out is there to "You fail your listen check. You are CdG'd. Roll up a new character"
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-24-05, 01:05 AM	Yeah, you got what you deserved for annoying a duke. But, judging from your post, you accept your death as a normal consequence of your actions. It's the manner of your death that's problematic. But it wasn't fair. Granted, maybe you didn't have any chance of surviving the assassin. But let's face it, if the DM play strictly logically, NO party whatsoever stand a chance against a moderatly smart and determined foe. Let's say you go against a dark wizard... Learning where you sleep ( logical, he has a good spy network, spells, etc), he spike the water tap, poison the food reserve, send 20 mages to fireball the place into oblivion, whatever, you're dead. Logic, but bad story. no fun for the players. The DM should have given you a "chance" ( if he truly think you can't escape, he's gonna send an uber-assassin or just fudge it) by role-playing it out. Maybe you're gonna hear the assassin, maybe not, but at least you won't have died by DM fiat. THIS is the problem. If you don't like instant death, tell your DM, but let it pass. Once. If there is another such instant death, leave the group, as you don't have a fair DM. Simple.
pres_man 07-24-05, 02:40 AM	While it sounds like it is somewhat unfair not to play out the death, what playing out is there to "You fail your listen check. You are CdG'd. Roll up a new character" Your a party of 3rd level characters above you is an ancient red dragon. It breaths on you all. You fail your saves. You all die, roll up new characters. So what is the difference, both show DMs that don't understand that this is a game where the players are expected to win/survive or at least have a fair chance of doing so. It doesn't always have to make 100% sense, like flying dragons do. :rolleyes:
Timlagor 07-24-05, 04:39 AM	What sort of Duke do you find hanging out in a tavern? Why would he have you killed in your sleep when he can have you arrested and tortured?
wordserpent 07-24-05, 07:46 AM	Realy, it sounds like your DM is a new DM with the same syndrome I have (I love betrayals/things where the PCs end up doing exactly the wrong thing Emphasis, mine. Excuse me but how is trying to stop a rape "The wrong thing"? Not to mention that the woman in question was being raped by her own brother. Finally I would like to point out that the rapists attacked the party and by doing so sealed their own fate. There was no wrong done as far as I am concerned. As for the whole "assasinated in your sleep" nonsense. Talk about railroading! Granted it was perfectly normal for the Duke to try and kill the PC's, but one would think it would be more dramatic. What an anti-climax. Why don't you run a game with these players and when your former DM rolls up a character that he likes, tell him that "He died in his sleep" and must roll up a new character, then take his old character and run it as an NPC.... ...actually, don't do that because it wouldn't solve the problem of your DM's lack of imagination.
^Graff_EpsilonIX 07-24-05, 09:31 AM	You should have at least been able to play out the duke's attempt on your life. As it says, you shouldn't just die, that's not a proper encounter, you should always be given a fighting chance. You never know, your DM could roll all ones and you could roll all 20s.
Cyric 07-24-05, 10:29 AM	As a DM I have to ask this question, why do players almost always insist on insulting/disrespecting nobles in public? Especially at low levels? Even outlaws should realize that you have to be careful around nobles or you'll wind up in jail having toothpicks shoved under your fingernails. Which is what should have happened, not the out of game, "Hey, you're dead." While my campaigns don't always include toothpicks and fingernails, they always include a player that hasn't learned his lesson and winds up being hunted a few hours later.
Lord Schpungus 07-24-05, 12:02 PM	I have to say it's because we're american, and we like our nobles strapped over a barrel and whipped. It's all about equality, or the cunning feel thereof.
weasel fierce 07-24-05, 02:16 PM	I have to say it's because we're american, and we like our nobles strapped over a barrel and whipped. It's all about equality, or the cunning feel thereof. Who are "we" ? Because I sure as hell am not.
Timlagor 07-24-05, 03:34 PM	Nor am I. BUt then I haven't seen this phenomenon either. In general the more we dislike someone the more respecful we are ...until we can take them down in a permanent fashion. I rekon it's because - your players are foolish - your DMs fail to explain the power ofthe noble and/or scare the PCs.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-24-05, 04:49 PM	As a DM I have to ask this question, why do players almost always insist on insulting/disrespecting nobles in public? Especially at low levels? Even outlaws should realize that you have to be careful around nobles or you'll wind up in jail having toothpicks shoved under your fingernails. Which is what should have happened, not the out of game, "Hey, you're dead." While my campaigns don't always include toothpicks and fingernails, they always include a player that hasn't learned his lesson and winds up being hunted a few hours later. This shall forever be known as Ye Olde Law of Cyric. Any body in a position of power radiate an aura that cause people to want to be disrespectfull to him. This aura provoke a reaction that is inversly proportionnal to the level of the PCs in the vicinity. Please accept your nomination for this Year's Gygax Prize (no, nobel was NOT a closet role-player).
On_the_wings_of_TPK 07-24-05, 07:13 PM	This shall forever be known as Ye Olde Law of Cyric. Any body in a position of power radiate an aura that cause people to want to be disrespectfull to him. This aura provoke a reaction that is inversly proportionnal to the level of the PCs in the vicinity. Please accept your nomination for this Year's Gygax Prize (no, nobel was NOT a closet role-player). sigged!
Lord Schpungus 07-24-05, 08:05 PM	We includes Me, and (I assume) most of the roleplayers who display this cynicism towards the quote unquote ruling class. Never grew up with it, never cared for it, to the Abyss with it.
burnt_to_crisp 07-24-05, 09:03 PM	Punched a duke in public and you don't expect repercussions?? I've never had a character pull anything like that but if someone did I would figure out what sort of resources the duke would put into retaliation. I would *NOT* be considering whether it was a balanced encounter. Pick on an NPC that's too powerful for you and it's your problem. i once started swearing a deity we met, in public. the faces of the other players were not worth the chase scene, capture, pain and new charachter sheet printing... although it was fun to watch the DM's jaw drop ^^ in other words, i agree that it's your promblam when your taking on a stronger opponent, but at least i had a chase scene (as a rule, teleport does NOT work against angry deities...), there is no point in just saying "your dead, your promblam". it is your promblam, but at least you should have a chance to fight (or in my case, run for your life, and afterlife if i know my luck...), even against the odds in a fight against someone that is by far superior to you, there is always a chance. just saying "your dead" is the worst thing you could do, even if you intend to kill the charachter, those two words can shake off the whole fun of the game, and they just might be enough to make you want to quit the game and pick up a new group.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-24-05, 09:07 PM	sigged! Query: Sigged? What's sigged? I'd like to know if it's an insult or a praise, to see if I put you on my Christmas card list or on my death threath list...
burnt_to_crisp 07-24-05, 09:10 PM	Query: Sigged? What's sigged? I'd like to know if it's an insult or a praise, to see if I put you on my Christmas card list or on my death threath list... i think it means he added the quote to his signature
Antioch 07-24-05, 10:41 PM	Your DM sounds like he is relatively new, and possibly a bit of a control freak. However I have a feeling that not all the details have been fronted, but I'll work with what you said. Regarding the commentary about how hitting a member of the royal house automatically equating to death, I suppose in real life that would have been the case. However this is a game and sometimes small deviations from perfect reality are necessary to maintain that flow. Discarding very rare and very, very extreme situations, your DM should never tell you out of the game that "by the by, your dead". His remark about you not wanting to hang with him for a bit reinforces my thinking that he wanted to make sure you knew he was in control, like any referee is, except that he abused his position and thus, is a bad DM. So based solely off of what you said, was it harsh treatment? Thats putting it lightly. Was it out of line? Completely. Should you have had at least a chance of defending yourself? Definately.
Wizards_White_Knight 07-25-05, 06:04 AM	What are those very rare and very very extreme circumstances you speak of Antioch?
Antioch 07-25-05, 06:50 AM	Well my first instinct was to say that it should never happen, but then I tend to thing along the train of "never say never". It took a bit, but I actually had to think about what instances would cause me personally, to wait til after a game to express to a player as an aside that they are now dead that was not induced by me on an alcohol binge or some form of substance abuse. Situation 1: The player was incredibly disruptive throughout the entire game to the point where not only was each and every player irate until its bitter finale, but that the game had to be cut short due to the players unceacing, aggressive behavior. After said events, the players approach me and unanimously demand that the player be permanently barred from future games. Even then I cannot fathom a situation above in which I could not properly manage the game, though I suppose that is one extreme circumstance. Situation 2: A similarly disruptive player as described above, except that not only do we all want him out of the game, but the group basically says afterwards that they are totally going to off him. If the player is no ill-regarded at that point that even I want him right out, I suppose I'd just say that they took him out along with me telling him to find another group. Situation 3: The player himself actually dies in RL and the party butchers his PC for magic items. Situation 4: As above, but on a lighter note the player does not die but will be otherwise unable to resume play pretty much indefinately. Situation 5: The player kicks me in the balls. Note: That was kind of a joke. They would have to kick me really hard, on purpose, and I would have to have not deserved it.
Feather 07-25-05, 07:01 AM	Am I the only one here that thinks you should run far, far, far away from your DM and never look back simply because he involved an incestual rape scene in the mission for no particular reason? In all honesty, the campaign seems doomed. Back to the drawing board.
Antioch 07-25-05, 07:07 AM	Am I the only one here that thinks you should run far, far, far away from your DM and never look back simply because he involved an incestual rape scene in the mission for no particular reason? In all honesty, the campaign seems doomed. Back to the drawing board. Now, I didnt wanna say it...mostly because I tried to forget that particular part of the post, but then you just had to go and dredge up horrible memories. WHY DO YOU HATE US SO!?
Cannis 07-25-05, 07:50 AM	look as a player and a dm, anyone who puts a rape scene in, is wrong look yes it is a game of fantasy and roleplaying but to include rape is just plain sick. I know it's based in medieval times but it's not like you have to go and depict the dark side of it.
Phrennzy 07-25-05, 10:49 AM	What kind of pervert Duke hangs out in a seedy bar populated with ex-slaves? I would ask the DM to reconsider the actual title of said NPC - perhaps "The Duke" - is a crime boss. That's more believeable. As for the "Bang, you're dead." I would ask if I got a listen check at the very least - and that the half-orc got one as well. What does that Player think of the "You're dead." situation. If the DM can't be swayed from it being THE Duke, then - although he should have handled it differently, like with a pair of 10th level bodyguards and an arrest - you may just have to live with the fact that you messed with the wrong person. In your fervor of being a player once again (and I know what you mean, as the DM, player opportunities are few and far between) make sure that you play in such a way to keep the game enjoyable for everyone, not just you. Including the Pit Fighter Player. The DM's biggest mistake was putting the Duke in such an odd setting. Your mistake was in trying to be such a badass. Too cocky. Instead of walking up and insulting the Duke, how about complimenting him on his city? Buy him a drink and get him as an ally?
Antioch 07-25-05, 04:45 PM	Really the content of a game should be geared towards your players. If one or more isnt comfortable with such mature subjects, then its best to just not incorporate them. If your players are up for dark, gritty realism, kudos to you. No wrong way to play, after all. However the fact is, your DM treated you unfairly and loses points in my book.
Siduakal 07-25-05, 05:51 PM	Er in my three man group rape IS existant. This is with a female as one of the 3.. It depends on your players. The content doesn't affec tme.. Hell, my Drow has strewn peoples intestines across a forest as decoration.. (He's a ranger/Wizard...)
Antioch 07-25-05, 05:53 PM	Er in my three man group rape IS existant. This is with a female as one of the 3.. It depends on your players. The content doesn't affec tme.. Hell, my Drow has strewn peoples intestines across a forest as decoration.. (He's a ranger/Wizard...) Ah, the days of my youthful gaming. So glad I grew out of the more...visceral aspects.
Siduakal 07-25-05, 06:44 PM	Eh.. my group is in their 30s.. I just play my drow how he is.. He's a teenager by drow standards.. He likes to teach people not to come in his forest.
Taladel 07-25-05, 07:11 PM	Drow? Forest? Does not compute.
Siduakal 07-25-05, 07:56 PM	RP evolution.. fled the UD to avoid being castrated for disobeying his wife to be. Ended up spending almost all his time traveling and training under an elven ranger/druid. (Epic character from WAY back in the worlds campaign history)
Vaelan 07-25-05, 08:26 PM	What kind of pervert Duke hangs out in a seedy bar populated with ex-slaves? Night comes and I have gold in my pocket and treat the group to a night in the most luxurious tavern in the town. I would figure the duke would want to kill you himself, which would at least give you a chance to escape and run away.
Phrennzy 07-25-05, 08:50 PM	the most luxurious tavern in the town.. Point taken. Let me rephrase. "What kind of 'the most luxurious tavern in the town' doesn't have a doorman to screen for ex-slaves/pirates?"
memno 07-25-05, 09:09 PM	Point taken. Let me rephrase. "What kind of 'the most luxurious tavern in the town' doesn't have a doorman to screen for ex-slaves/pirates?" The kind that enjoys customers that spend a lot of gold. I spent over 600 gold in the tavern that night. the average person in there spent around 20-50gp in a night.
Timlagor 07-25-05, 10:01 PM	The Duke still shouldnt' be there. If the Duke wants a party it will come to him.
Arkidisey 07-25-05, 10:37 PM	exactly! That and a real duke would have you arrested, right as you said change your attitude or we will change it for you, his bodyguards should have kicked you out of the bar, other than that, the duke having you illegaly assasinated means he's really one of those "im above the law!" kinds of nobles in which case he should be arrested when you get proof of his wrong doings! that or have you new character be a duke hater and have a assasin assasinate HIM! :rolleyes:
pres_man 07-25-05, 11:08 PM	exactly! That and a real duke would have you arrested, right as you said change your attitude or we will change it for you, his bodyguards should have kicked you out of the bar, For some reason this reminded me of: COP: Mr White, You are under arrest for being "drunk in public". White: I don't want to be "drunk in public" I want to be drunk in a bar, arrest them they threw me into public... -Ron "Tator Salad" White
Maerdash 07-26-05, 12:37 AM	I have to say that your character got what he deserved, I also think the dm handled the assasination poorly but both of you seem to have handled the situation like mature adults and have resolved the problem Kudos for you mate. For anyone who thinks its a waste of time to rp the assasination attempt let me just say that I have had a 3rd (or 4th its been a long time) level character who got into a bit of trouble with a thieves guild. This character not only survived an attempted assasination by a 12th level rogue but also managed to kill the poor bastard due to two very good rolls for me and some really bad ones for the dm. Short of the story I got a crit twice with a scythe, the rogue did manage to get me down to around 4hp though. Still I didn't survive the second attempt so maybe it was pointless.......except the group got to keep the cool magic loot from the first assasin. :D
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-26-05, 01:43 AM	look as a player and a dm, anyone who puts a rape scene in, is wrong look yes it is a game of fantasy and roleplaying but to include rape is just plain sick. I know it's based in medieval times but it's not like you have to go and depict the dark side of it. Yeah, but so's torture, murder, genocide, slavery and such. Yet, they still appear in games. Those horrible crimes should not be depicted in games? "Good" groups need a truly despicable villain to hate while "evil" groups revolve around those things. (I know, oversimplification, but still, it applies). Beside, at it's core, D&D as a game reward and encourage genocide. The typical player will try to kill members of dozens of other races upon seeing them. An orc! Charge! A dragon! Charge.
eudas 07-26-05, 11:27 AM	quit being such a *****; they don't want to play with you, so go back to overcharging them 20% on D&D books and get on with your life. eudas
memno 07-26-05, 02:56 PM	quit being such a *****; they don't want to play with you, so go back to overcharging them 20% on D&D books and get on with your life. eudas I take it the owner of your local gaming store isn't on your christmas card mailing list. My Dm and I are freinds. that is why I brought my venting here instead of venting to our freinds and fellow players.
Siduakal 07-26-05, 03:14 PM	I take it the owner of your local gaming store isn't on your christmas card mailing list. My Dm and I are freinds. that is why I brought my venting here instead of venting to our freinds and fellow players. lol beat me to it.. I think his local gaming store owner banned him.
Eviltool 07-26-05, 09:40 PM	Your storytelling confuses me. anway the story our tiny ship pulls up to small port. As we get out the Cleric(owner of the ship) tells us to hurry. suddenly 5 big burly men jump out and threaten us. They want the cleric and we go free. I being the spokesperson of our group. said, "take him." So one of our group gets shot in the throat and dies, after we do as asked. long story short battle moves in land. The group takes heavy casaulties. I hide in rocks for a few rounds. I move back to the boat and grab its rope. I in the water drag it so i can hide in water if need be. I finally drag the boat to a spot they can retreat to. (side note i had to give up D&D for a few years, then when I got back in I was DM. This is my first character since 1998. I had so much fun playing this encounter.) Ok, so do you tell the burly men to take the cleric? But they still attack? What! We escape to a town. While going to get a detect magic cast, our group sees a gruesome rape in an alley. I step in and tell the 2 heathens to stop. they attack the group and are quickly dispatched. the woman faints, I take her to a local herb shop to get some help. she wakes up and ask why I killed her Brother and his freind(and yes they where raping her.) Ok, your dm is probably a little bit borderline retarded, but that's ok. Night comes and I have gold in my pocket and treat the group to a night in the most luxurious tavern in the town. I introduce the Half-orc barb as MadZero, The Bastard. I tell grand stories of his exploits to all the ladies. So I have a lady for each group of the party, Me and 3 others. The pitfighter declines his and goes to bed.(player refuses any roleplay. he only rolls dice) So the barb and I do upstairs in the tavern to gamble. The local duke looks over at us and gives us a mean look. The Dm spends a lot of time talking about his long moustache. I go over to him and inform him if he doesn't change his expression, MadZero would change it for him. we sit down and play dice. I win 200gp and hed downstairs to drink some more. an hour later the duke comes down and him and his bully boys make a snide remark strait to my face. I tell him to **** off. He ask, "if I know who he is?" I say, "the person about to get punched in his face" MadZero, The "you know" jumps in raging, punches the duke out then moves on to the bully boys. I liberated the duke of half of his moustache. Mad zero, our women and myself at this point decide to take a walk. end game. 2 days later DM comes to my store. He looks at me, " you my want me to not hang out for a few days." I inquire why. " The duke had the Zero and you assassinated in your sleep." So now the character I liked so much was killed because: Dm stole my character idea Made the group play chaotic neutral made the duke not like my character for no apparent reason. punished me for staying in character. The charcater that only roles dice leveled. even if i had'nt died I still souldn't have leveled, so there is no experience in this game for role-playing. Errr if the duke was so powerful you would have died very quickly in the bar. I doubt his bodyguards would be level 3 or less. it all happened the week before the 2 groups met. I would have had my first chance at possibly being the leader of the group for the first time. I'm telling theDM, I'm not going to make a new character. He can alter that ending, or I just won't play. I don't enjoy wasting time making in depth characters so they can die on whim the doesn't even involve a dice role. It would have been so fun to have a pirate character that had an intense rivalry with a duke. anyway am I being to stubborn about feeling my character was messed over? I also recall you saying something later on about how the burly men were 4 levels above you. And it seems to me that there were 6 of them vs 3 of you. Yeah, that's a great dm you have there.
eudas 07-27-05, 10:37 AM	I take it the owner of your local gaming store isn't on your christmas card mailing list. My Dm and I are freinds. that is why I brought my venting here instead of venting to our freinds and fellow players. no, they're not on my christmas card mailing list; i barely know the guy. it's pretty much a "i buy books, they sell me books" relationship. lol beat me to it.. I think his local gaming store owner banned him. i've never been banned from a gaming store in my life. i just think that if he honestly doesn't like the "who's who"/drama in his store, then he needs to stop being part of the problem. eudas
SeidonVanDolf 07-27-05, 10:53 AM	There should have been a dice roll. Maybe you still would've died maybe not but there should have been a listen check or something. And even a coup de grace may not kill you outright. It means they score a critical hit and then roll damage. If the damage doesn't kill you then you make a Fortitude save DC 10+damage dealt or you die. There are several rolls involved in that. And the way he approached you about it implies that he knew that. So my suggestion is find a new DM or demand a very good explaination and then possibly find a new DM anyway.
Citizen Fry 07-27-05, 10:58 AM	Sounds like some big disagreement in playing styles between the OP and his DM. You guys need to talk it out...if you can't come to an acceptable agreement, find a new game. Personally, in my games, I tend to give people warnings before they commit offenses that are worthy of assassination/jailtime. For example, when the barbarian PC says he's throwing a punch at the king, I'll explicitly list the probable consequences. If he doesn't have a darn good RP reason for it, I inflict the consequences, and start looking for a new player.
Antioch 07-27-05, 05:42 PM	The fact of the matter is that a good DM wont outright kill you like that. Its not fair and certainly not fun.
Evil Glowstick 07-27-05, 08:53 PM	Wow. Everyone is attacking the guy for playing his char. Not the brightest thing to do attacking the duke,but his char was drunk. And from how things sound that is just what his char would do. As a DM I would take this and make it an interesting twist in the game. Now the duke hates you and sends men out to kill you. If you survive then he sends more. You get a chance to survive though. Not just by the way, your char is dead now.As for the pitfighter he took himself out of the game. He could have been in the bar fight if he stayed. I'm sure he gets his day in combat all the time. Whats wrong w/ a little rp?Its one of the best parts of the game!
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-28-05, 01:04 AM	The fact of the matter is that a good DM wont outright kill you like that. Its not fair and certainly not fun. An entire thread's opinion resumed by just two phrases. And yet, we're already at the end of the third page...