Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DraytonThain 02-04-05, 05:01 PM	ok, so to me this is a VERY touchy subject, i have never been one for killing other characters off, just not good for group. but recently... we have this character in our group that is WAY overpowered, super duper saves in the 30s at 13level, spells, monk abilities this and that and all the other things, and while its annoying its no big deal to the rest of us, if the guy is all about the power and less about the roleplay thats his thing. the PROBLEM is that this superduperUBERcharacter has ****** off a number of big baddies, including some super~lich who want this character to pay for the trouble it has caused. we get this letter from the ****** lich with some body parts of our ships crew(poor crew :weep: ) the lich wants this character he is ****** at...alive. of course the player of this character has no intention of facing the problems he has caused so now it has escalated to super lich, bounty hunters and vampires we have to deal with. ok, so that was a lot of blah to give you a bit of an idea of what we are dealing with...the problem MY character has is that he has seen the power of this troublesome character and in no way does he want some lich or vampire "turning the character to the dark side". remember, the lich wants this guy ALIVE and in my characters mind...that just spells trouble. so...we finally get to the question at hand(sorry it took so long) and that question being...what would you do? would it be just outright evil to kill this character off? even if the lich does NOT sith his ass on us i still see this character being tortured and all that bad stuff. now i know some of you may be thinking...why not just hunt the lich down or dont you care about this guys character?? well, the answer to that is ...not really...i dont really recall this guy ever doing anything to help anyone out, acts like a total ass, taunts all the baddies making powerful enemies and pushes the rest of the group to go~go~go even tho the rest of us have neither the saves nor power to deal with these things, got us banished from our lucky cadre(and he aint even a member!!) and showed little to no concern when we found out half our crew was missing and either vamped or in the hands of the lich. any suggestions on how to handle this situation? perhaps i should add the bounty on his head is....100,000 gold...which is a HUGE payday for our party. anyhows...thanks to any who spent the time to read thru my post :)
Vol 02-04-05, 05:15 PM	First of all a question: why does this character shine so much among your party? How is it that he has so many high saves/abilities etc. and the rest of the party doesn't? My experience is that in a group, every PC should be equally powerful; this to avoid the that-guy-solves-all-the-problems-alone effect, that would drain the fun from the other PCs and maybe the DM himself. As for killing a fellow PC, I think the reason doesn't matter, as long as the game is still fun for everyone.
FreeTheSlaves 02-04-05, 06:15 PM	Pool your money together and buy your DM a late Xmas present - a DMG. You will probably have to do a read aloud to make sure he listens & learns as this problem is specifically covered in the DMG.
fallabel 02-04-05, 06:37 PM	If my Paladin (or most likely any Paladin) were in your party, he'd say that there is no reason to kill off the party member in question. If he's evil, redeem him, though it doesn't appear that he's evil. As for the problems the PC causes: the Paladin would swear to protect the party against all of the evil pursuers, and he'd relish the opportunity to smite undead like vampires and a lich. Just my two cents...
DraytonThain 02-04-05, 07:46 PM	heh well ya see paly the paladin...thats the thing...we are all cn to n...i dont think anyone is good. we are a band of mostly rog/mixed classes...kinda young upstarts(6-14the level) with a fast lil ship, cruising the "high seas" for adventure. i guess we found it...liches and vampires. HEY paly...whatcha doing on sunday??? :)
ShadowDragon8685 02-04-05, 07:50 PM	You're not Good? Problem solved: Whack him, claim the reward, stage a hit on the people who paid the reward, claim his body back, Raise him, and hand him over to the Lich. :)
DraytonThain 02-04-05, 08:38 PM	:) yes yes whack him and claim the reward, its all great and fun. *cha-ching!!* but like i said im not into trying to kill the other players characters cuz its bad for gaming group morale but for gaming purposes my character has a fear of this ubercharacter being turned into a tool of evil somehow...so i wonder if it would just be better to roast the guy..say fireseeds. i guess thats the moral dilemma for my character and what i was asking. to kill or not to kill. some other party members just want to hand him over to the lich so it will leave us alone. but i fear this evil epic lich dreadlord badass using said uber to further his evil plans. oh, and im just a wee lil hafling by the way...i dont wanna plot murder~! but must i...?? :bigeyes: :bigeyes:
Astrimedes 02-04-05, 09:18 PM	This really sounds, to me, like it shouldn't even be your problem. Have a talk with your DM, preferrably with the other players (excluding wonder-boy) and tell him that this player is becoming a serious problem. Don't try to get the DM to commit to a particular course of action, but ask him to somehow take care of this problem, explaining it similarly to how you did above. Ultimately, the DM should feel obliged to solve this problem himself, as general group-morale issues are his problem. This should not be something you need to take on yourself. Ideally, the DM will have him killed or kidnapped by some random bounty hunter or an agent of the lich. I'd hope then he will somehow remove him either completely, or remove him long enough to teach him a lesson about acting without concern for the well-being of the rest of the group. The DM could even have the bounty hunters contact the rest of the party (in private) and offer everyone a little chunk of the reward if they "look the other way" while they whisk off this problem PC. The entire party should not be punished (too much) for the actions of a single party member. While this is a might unrealistic, the DM is a storyteller and referee, not just the guy who rolls stuff for the monsters, and as such he needs to nip this problem in the bud.
CapnSwashbuckler 02-04-05, 09:49 PM	I agree with the other posters insofar as you definitely need to talk with the DM. I also agree with the posters who advocate whacking the dude if talking with the DM doesn't work. But just out of courtesy, it'd probably be a good thing to sit down and talk with the player first about his play style, just so he's not completely blindsided.
Grievemere 02-04-05, 10:11 PM	I think it might be worth your while tackling this one both in and out of the game. Outside of the game perhaps you and the other players need to have a chat to this guy about what is an isn't fun for the group as a whole. Also have a chat with your DM about where things are going and see if some better balance can be arranged. If he really wont play ball then maybe you should mention the fact that the rest of you will off his character at the first opportunity, although I'd leave that for when things really break down. In game its a similar conversation. He bucks up his ideas or he'll find the rest of the group are prepared to abandon him as its got far too hot. Maybe you all leave town to check out the far side of the sea and he's not invited on pain of lots of sharp stabby things. Or if you're worried he might go over to the dark side perhaps its him who gets the chance to check out distant lands on pain of aforementioned stabby things. Maybe best of all, all your charaters put their heads together to plan a way out for all of you, but with the threat of the above if he screws up anymore.
ShadowDragon8685 02-05-05, 01:50 AM	100,000 GP is a LOT of gold. Raise Dead is what, 3000? Price on your party arsehole's head: 100,000 GP. Price of Raise Dead spell: 3000 GP. Your lives safe from an angry lich: Party :censored:, alive. The look on the party arsehole PC's player's face when he realizes you killed him for the bounty on his head, used a spell that drops him a level to bring him back to life, brought him back to life inside deblitating manicles that prevent spellcasting, and handed him over to a lich? Priceless. There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's SigilCard, proud sponser of BBEGs everywhere.
Gedrin 02-05-05, 02:37 AM	First, talk it over out of character with everyone. Let the players know that there are problems with the characters and the fun-level is less than you feel it should be. My suggestion for action... Just leave him behind. Tell him you'll not be travelling with him any more and you plan to go your own way. No hard feelings, it's just not working out any more. Then, leave. If he follows, tell him again you won't allow him to travel with you. If he still follows... Well, you can't very well allow this reckless criminal to endanger you and your compatriots in the way he has in the past, not to mention all the evil he's brought on you and the evil that follows him. Further, it's clear that he's obsessed with the party and reasoning will not work. Naturally, the players, everyone who will be with the party from here forward, should let the DM know ahead of the game that this is going to happen. More notice the better.
dknight100 02-05-05, 05:18 AM	before you leap on the powergamer, theres somethings you should do 1) check that his powerplaying is within the rules. A thorough check. He might not have intentionally cheated, sometimes rules can seem one way but be another like the 2 versions of Fast Movement - the monk and the scout gain an enhancement bonus to speed, but the barbarian ability by the same name increases speed naturally without any enhancement, an easy thing to confuse. If his powerplay doesnt actually work point it out to him, have him rework it to be within the rules. 2) If its all within the rules, have a look at your own characters, maybe you've chronically underutilised them, so its not so much him outshining you guys, as your characters just plain not shining. If this is the case, have a think about how you can improve them, to bring yourselves on par 3) talk to him. Even through your characters, have them say, look, buddy, you might have noticed your getting us in the *****, mind taking a little more care? if he responds fine to this, then you can enact a plan to get yourselves free of your troubles - kill him, collect bounty, tell lich that the situation is beyond your control, as some adventurers killed him for the bounty (that would even pass a detect lies test!) recover body, raise him, divvy up the loot between you ALL. ::EDIT:: this is amazing, it edits out swearing automatically. no offense, but i thought everyone was just being a tad prudish :P
prozacman 02-05-05, 05:59 AM	You're not Good? Problem solved: Whack him, claim the reward, stage a hit on the people who paid the reward, claim his body back, Raise him, and hand him over to the Lich if this were a problem in the game i am currently playing i can say for certain this is what my character would do.. of course he's a bit of a powerhungry jerk.. and doesn't like unnecessary problems, or undead... and he does like money... since your characters would not have moral opposition to this issue, you might just do that... of course that might make some out of chacter problems at your table, course i'd respond to those problems by shrugging and saying "he never really liked you anyway, sorry your life wasn't worth 10000 gold to him, and his life certainly wasn't" in fact your DM putting that much of a bounty out on a character in a party of a bunch of CN thugs sounds like thats his goal anyway... but thats just my two cents.
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 06:46 AM	thanks for all the postin' but i guess i feel that real reason i made this threadyposttopicthingy is to see what CHARACTERS would do in this situation...not players...so, where is the section for "whats a character to do?"? :) i dont recall saying in my post that our game was not fun, or that things are "getting out of hand" or cRaZy or that we players need to have a talk with the dm or anything dm...this is a character situation and my quest to see what other players characters would think or do in this situation. its not about powergamey guys powergaming...cuz he is damn useful in lots of situations...just that all that power is what got him into trouble and all that power is what my character fears will be "turned"...and oh, did i mention this lich is known as the corruptor? thanks for viewing and posting(if you do) about my characters ongoing dilema
fallabel 02-05-05, 07:40 AM	In that case, in character you have two options: 1) Be good, and get him to change his ways. That way he won't endanger the party anymore (after the lich is dealt with), and you'll still have a powerful ally. 2) Kill him in a manner that prevents him from being raised. Disintegration, dismemberment, something like that. Then collect the bounty and move on. Your characters wouldn't be concerned about OoC problems. It sounds to me like your DM wants your characters to kill him. Between the bounty and the lich named 'corruptor', I think the DM just wants to rid his game of this character. He's probably also leaving open the possibility of biting you guys in the rear if you're not careful, (e.g. the lich finding his body and turning him into some nasty undead creature.) Good luck!
Dwalon 02-05-05, 01:31 PM	heh we are a band of mostly rog/mixed classes...kinda young upstarts(6-14the level) with a fast lil ship, cruising the "high seas" for adventure. ******* To me, that is at the basis of your group troubles ... too vast a range of character levels. D&D is at essence a mathematics game with an opportunity thrown in to roleplay. There is no reasonable expectation that a 6th level character could even begin to be on par with a 14th leveler. I realize you believe your gripe is based on a "character" issue, but in summary, it is not. It is a "balance" issue that a "character" is abusing. I would suggest bringing your gripe(s) up to the DM himself, explaining how the game is so unbalanced that it has become such a frustration for you to enjoy the play. Ultimately, it is the DM's responsibility to ensure all players engage in the play, not just the most powerful member.
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 01:53 PM	D&D is at essence a mathematics game with an opportunity thrown in to roleplay :eek: a mathematics game with the OPPORTUNITY to roleplay??? noOOOOooOOOoooo! so d&d is actually just some educational tool developed to trick us into doing math!!!! curse you Gygax for what you have done!! :ahem:
Xenocide 02-05-05, 02:26 PM	Simple, exile him from the party, hold a party meeting and boot him. He's causing problems, he's dangerous, and you don't want him around. He has to make a new character or leave the group. He doesn't have to be killed, that's kinda gratuitous.
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 03:07 PM	but...not so simple see that mean ol lich has some of the ships crew and in order to get them back alive said uber MUST hand himself over to the lich. BUT if we just hand him on over then this lich, known as the corruptor, might do some corrupting on said uber and then our roleplaying world will have a darksided uber to deal with...not a good thing. anywhos...our group of heros(?) is currently planning on raiding a vampires lair in hope that we may SOMEHOW find a way to save some crew members. is there any real cure for vampirism besides a sharp stick to the heart?? sure they are just npcs and we can always hire more crew but these poor guys worked hard to keep our ship sailing well so we cant just leave them to bloodsucking fates...at least that is how my character feels. thanks again for the posts :)
fallabel 02-05-05, 03:14 PM	According the Book of Exhalted Deeds, creatures such as zombies and vampires are not redeemable. So, I'm not sure, but I'd think that would imply that vampirism cannot be cured.
Super_Demolition_Christ 02-05-05, 04:50 PM	This Character, wether he realizes it himself, is Cocky, overly proud, and obviously does not care who gets hurt due to his actions. I am not expert on, you know, everything. But If it where my rouge, and he was just a tad good He would decide that it is best for the world that this guy is put to rest. I mean come on, your crew, the people who decided to entrust their well being to you guys in exchange for their work, WHERE MURDERED BECAUSE OF THIS FOOLS SELFISH OVERCONFIDENCE. If it where my rouge, when everyone is sleeping, on my watch, I'd Coup De Grace the bastard. Oh yea, and any smart character would realize that should the lich get that guy on his side, that he will probably seek to kill the only person who might know the bastards secrets. In other words you.
Callista 02-05-05, 05:26 PM	According the Book of Exhalted Deeds, creatures such as zombies and vampires are not redeemable. So, I'm not sure, but I'd think that would imply that vampirism cannot be cured. It can... Wish/Miracle. But it's hard.
True Archon 02-05-05, 05:31 PM	Alright, you've talked to the player and DM about this, and the character is still a jerk that gets everyone else in trouble. Powergaming aside. Here's how you roleplay it the next time bounty hunters come-a-calling: DM: Several serious, grizzled looking fellows emerge from the alleyway, weapons drawn and hostile intentions evident on there faces. DraytonThain: "Ah pray tell, who are you that we may carve your names on your tombstones when all is finished?" Draws short sword. Bounty Hunter: "HAHA, weak rogues, we've come for the lil' bounty on your monk friend there." All of them draw their weapons. DraytonThain: "Oh," puts his shortsword at a low-ready, "go ahead, take him. He's never cared about us, so why should we care about him. Not to mention, he never knows when to shut up. Oh, but tell your boss that he needs to give us back our crew, at least they were useful to us." Steps away from monk-guy, lifting a welcoming hand to the now outnumbered monk. Now confused Bounty Hunter: "Umm ok... Get him!" DraytonThain: To the DM, "I walk away, cautiously watching that these bounty hunters don't attack me instead of him." Ok... a bit extreme, but really... Try relating to the monk-guy that your character has grown attached to the loyal, hard-working crew, and you want to save them. If the monk-guy still doesn't care, and constantly poses to be a problem, give him the same treatment that he's offered to you and the rest of the group. I've read a number of threads where one player is constantly getting the party as a whole into more trouble than they should. Well, the PCs getting into trouble is a given in a D&D game. However, when that same player does nothing to help the other PCs (or those that work for him) that he got into trouble in the first place? That's a problem player in most groups. Really, there is nothing in the rules that says that your CN rogue cannot be callous towards another callous PC.
Shard of Suzail 02-05-05, 08:38 PM	What a strange collection of replies in this post. I`m quite shocked at most of them, for sure. Now, i`ve read through the OP's post and replies, these are the facts i can gather. 1. They are adventurers, they have adventures, they are active. 2. They have access to a ship and crew, who are important to them. 3. They are mostly Chaotic and Neutral, with rogue/physical skills. 4. They are neither evil nor good. 5. They have one member who is of great power.# 6. This member has made enemies, who appear to be evil, eg liches. 7. The enemies fear the powerful character and hate him. 8. The enemies seem unable or unwilling to stop him themselves. 9. The enemies thus try to turn the fellows allies (the party) upon him. 10. They do this by taking hostages and threatening the party allies. So... The party is now debating killing the powerful member to appease the villains and save the hostages. My initial thoughts: 1. The party is foolish to think that the villains will "pay up" or release anyone. 2. The party is not evil, apparently. 3. The party does adventure and does want to save the crew, this makes them both active and with a tendency towards good. 4. The powerful member has made enemies of evil villains (thus he is good). 5. The villains are not taking the fellow on themselves and thus cant be all that tough. They are, however, bothered by him enough to take hostages and make lengthy plans. Again, this confirms they are not as tough as they seem because no direct action has been taken except versus hirelings. 6. The party is jealous of the powerful hero. 7. The party seems to think it will never make enemies on its own, which i consider very naive. If anything, the party is trying to give the impression that it never adventures and wants to be left alone to sail about. Thus I say... One thing i learned in my playing experience was this: Jealousy of other characters gets you nowhere. They are, after all, on your side and their combat success or social success, keeps you alive. Likewise, the party succeeds or fails as a group and thus their success is also yours. You are not in competition with other characters, they are each helping one another. If one player makes battles seem easy, then go off and find a bigger challenge. In this instance, the party has made enemies. This is not uncommon. In fact, a party that makes no enemies isnt a party at all, its a group of commoners. Adventurers, even neutral ones, have an agenda and oppose some folks, be they villains, heroes, or just random folks looking to make a living. Adventure involves risk and competition. Just sailing about puts you in potential risk of pirate attack and that breeds enemies. Thus you can make enemies by minding your own business and then by defending yourself. The fact that there is someone in the group trying to actively do things is good and not, as the party thinks, bad. This man is a hero and he is ruining the plans of villains. The party should regard this man as an asset to their plans. That is, if they actually have any plans and it sounds like they dont. They have fallen ill with that popular plague called "I`m chaotic neutral, so i dont take orders and i dont actually want to do anything" also known as the "We wont get anything done, but we still expect a scenario, though we wont follow it - disease". I`d be interested to know what would happen to this party when the villain adds another name to the death list as an extra to his demands. It seems almost reasonable that the chosen victim is the "noisy hero" and thus many people posting here seem to accept it as the wise choice or even the right one. Dont let this fellows heroics disguise the fact that, at the bottom of all this, an evil undead spellcaster is asking the party to murder one of their own, basically, because he doesnt like them. I bet he`s sitting at home in his tower thinking "Hey, that was easy, i just beat up some sailors and the heroes who made my life a misery are all falling about killing one another. I`ll see how many times i can ask them to do this before they realise what jealous and cowardly fools they were". So, sort out your differences and march off to beat the foe up and, hopefully, rescue the sailors, i say. You dont have to be good to have a backbone or to stand together. If this guy with you is so powerful, then you should have no trouble. By all means, he can go first, too and chances are he probably will be happy to, saving you the trouble of being in...danger. Regardless of alignment, player characters are heroes, be that villainous heroes or goodly heroes. They get things done in the world, even if it is to line their pockets with gold or to learn ancient knowledge of great importance. Dont kill the only one in the party doing his job. Learn from him, help him, prosper with him. You are not playing NPC's. And even if the party was evil, never, ever make the foolish mistake of giving into an evil undead hostage taker with no care for the living and who really doesnt have any fear of the party at all once character X is killed. That guy being alive might be the only thing keeping you in one piece.
danielinthewolvesden 02-05-05, 09:01 PM	One morning when the uber-PC wakes up, just have him find your PC's gone with a nice note "So long, thanks for the fun, but it's too dangerous. Enjoy!". Make him breakfast even. :D Go play without him. The real problem here is your DM. There should never be an 8 level disparity amoung PC's (I'd say 3, max). This brings on these kind of problems, where the only way for the DM to challenge the powerful PC is sure death for everyone else.
danielinthewolvesden 02-05-05, 09:03 PM	P.S. Unless your DM has specifically made it clear that PKing is allowed & acceptable in that campaign- then it's a big breech of gaming ettiquete to do it. Don't.
Shard of Suzail 02-05-05, 09:10 PM	Hmm, i didnt see anything about an 8 level disparity...if this is so, then i`ll need to post some additional advice. Could someone find me the OP's quote regarding this disparity...i dont see where it is said, if at all. :confused:
fallabel 02-05-05, 09:25 PM	Here's the post about levels: heh well ya see paly the paladin...thats the thing...we are all cn to n...i dont think anyone is good. we are a band of mostly rog/mixed classes...kinda young upstarts(6-14the level) with a fast lil ship, cruising the "high seas" for adventure. i guess we found it...liches and vampires. HEY paly...whatcha doing on sunday??? :)
Shard of Suzail 02-05-05, 09:51 PM	Thankyou Fallabel. I`m unsure if the noisy hero character is at the high end of the spectrum though. The original poster doesnt make a big thing of him being a higher level than everyone else, he just says he is more powerful. Still, it seems fair to assume he is one of the top level people. Though it is odd, since the OP says that this other character was "useful in a fight" though that he "didnt help much". There are a lot of confusing messages coming through here. I dont reckon he`s that far in front of the party and he might not be the highest level present. I`ll stand by my original advice that the party should, at least, get their act together and go fight the villains who are harassing them rather than turn on eachother as the villain intends they should. However, i do stand with those posters above who highlight the level disparity as being a problem, though it doesnt seem to be the core of the issue here. a full party level and class rundown would be very helpful and enlightening. Something bugs me about all this though, i`m sure there is something missing from the story we have been given andi cant put my finger on it.
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 10:00 PM	heh i really should have made this thread much more simple and to the point of my question. forgive me. if we could possibly keep it to the moral dilema of the question to kill or not kill another player character...that would be great. im sorry if it seems that i was *****ing about something, other players or dming or powergaming...cuz its not that. dming is great, if not..this game would not have lasted as long as it has. powergameyguy is fine....his ability to stackNrack those stats and abilities helps our somewhat weak-combat group deal with numerous problems. and there is really no in game bickering between players...we all get along and talk with each other thru the week. my poor lil hafling guy...YES...all he wants to do is sail the ocean blue and find what finds him and grow with those experiences. have fun. liches and vampires are NOT fun for my hafling so of course he is gonna whine a bit IN CHARACTER. now me, i think its all great fun...my character is getting swept up in something serious that may be world affecting, he is seeing things of wonder and terror AND facing an interesting future. that along with the choices a character must make shape who he/she is and what they are all about. i really cant wait to see how this all works out and where the game leads to next. heh...god im a geek :) D&D i wuv you~!!
fallabel 02-05-05, 10:09 PM	I was wrestling with the question about killing a member of my party recently, though for far different reasons. (If you're interested, check out the thread called "Alignment Question") Anyway, my Paladin decided to show him mercy, and instead try to convert the monk to be a servant of Heironeous. It's important to keep in mind, though, that there are huge differences in the moral point of view of a Paladin versus that of a chaotic neutral rogue. Basically, I don't think there's anything wrong with killing a player character, provided there is sufficient reason to do so. In this case, I'm not sure that there's sufficient cause. It's possible that the DM wants things to go in this direction no matter what, and he's trying to exascerbate matters by adding the bounty. That gives him an excuse to throw random bounty hunters at you, and it also provides a method through which to steer your party towards a confrontation with the lich. Also, from a storytelling point of view, the DM probably realizes that in a battle with a lich, this powerful character will contribute more than the rest of the group. So, it makes for good drama to have the uberPC be the guy that the lich is hunting, so as to add extra gravity to the fight. So, that was a long response, but I hope it helps. Incidentally, my group is in the midst of a campaign that includes alot of undead, and I've been having alot of fun smiting zombie lords and the like. A battle with a lich would be great!
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 10:11 PM	shard said uber is VERY useful in a variety of situations. if i said he was not helping or such it was prob about ubers shoulder shrugging about the kidnapped crew or the fact that we have been banished from what is basically our guild cuz he keeps trying to abuse their generosity( you know..."lets go to the guild" " lets just get it from the guild" GUILDGUILDGUILD) which he is not a member of in the first place. my character is VERY upset about the guild thing. there are other things but i dont really want to go into that and sorry but no, i dont want to list out all the charactes and stats and levels and such...i think i blather enough on here as it is. :)
Shard of Suzail 02-05-05, 10:31 PM	In which case, your character would be best off leaving the party and trying to live a quiet life elsewhere. You either take the heroes route and go fight the villain or the retirement route of becoming an NPC. If you were to turn on the character and kill him, then that basically means that whenever a party member takes enough action to make him a hero, you should kill him as well, since the objective of the party seems to be "keep a low profile and make no enemies". I`m curious really as to why there is a party at all. Just hanging around together for convenience doesnt make the grade in party terms. Many players seem to think that leaving a party and thus retiring their character is a bad option, which moves them to thinking that killing party members is a better idea. I retired Shard, my cleric, last session, purely on the grounds that she had no reason to be with the party any more. The gm had started to ignore the dragon related quest that the party was originally tasked to sort out and had instead opted for lots of unrelated gold finding scenarios. The rest of the party, due to new characters and characters getting replaced, had all drifted away from our "main quest" as well. That made me, as the older character, the odd one out and thus I moved on and ceased to play her. Sometimes a party just goes its own way and a character doesnt fit. Sometimes a character is actually better off not being with the party at all and this, i feel, is where your halfling currently stands. After all, the party will constantly attract new enemies and there will always be someone trying to become leader and direct it this way and that. You could, alternatively, change your mindset and become a hero too. Thus staying with the party and getting things done. It does, however, mean that the quiet life of sailing will have to wait for the future, as a planned retirement. At no time does killing a party member need to be involved.
danielinthewolvesden 02-05-05, 10:47 PM	Incidentally- even though I know it wasn't quite what our OP wanted, I want to say that the advice that Astrimedes, CapnSwashbuckler, Greivemere, Gedrin, Dwalon, Shard of Suzail, and others have given is generally very good and mature advice, and well worth it to read and follow in other games. Good work guys! :w00t: As to our OP's specific Question- as I said before- unless your DM has made it very clear that PKing is acceptable in his campaign- DON'T. It's not fair unless & until the others have been put on notice that such a thing is OK. So, if you still want to- have the DM discuss this with the Players and make a ruling. Then make your decision. But again- just leaving him behind as a group solves the problem.
DraytonThain 02-05-05, 11:15 PM	PKing is not a problem with the dm...i just dont like it cuz how it can affect gaming group morale. sorry, but im not really down with the out of game group talks. i want to ROLEplay...not sit around talking about roleplayiing(waitaminute...what am i doing now?? :) ) i feel that while out of game group talks CAN help if there is a huge problem, which i dont think we have, REALLY cuts into what roleplaying should be...playing a role, a character...be that character a whimpering whimpus, a blessed spirit of goodness or a coniving wretch. i dont want someone changing their characters spirit cuz another does not like something thats happening...i want characters to change/not change depending upon the game, the story, situations and reactions that happen on game day, NOT cuz of a talking to. heh, im sure it might somewhat help if i gave a full story of our hapless group but ...god...i dont wanna do that to ya. i thank EVERYONE for posting~! :)
NEd 02-06-05, 12:15 PM	OK, so: The Lich wants the monk, alive. The lich put out a big bounty on him. He's got your ships crew, and you want them back. Figure out if anyone in your party can cast simulacra, or if you can pay someone who can. Let the simulacra of your monk get captured. Assuming the lich doesn't give back your crew right away, use the distraction to rescue them. Sail away. :cool: Just a suggestion.
DraytonThain 02-06-05, 12:25 PM	yah, i have been trying to come up with some ways to "trick" the lich and somehow steal the crew back. but, said lich being a superlich...i fear its gonna be right hard to trick him into anything. ohh and the character the lich wants is more shaman than monk.
crilley 02-06-05, 05:14 PM	OK, so: The Lich wants the monk, alive. The lich put out a big bounty on him. He's got your ships crew, and you want them back. Figure out if anyone in your party can cast simulacra, or if you can pay someone who can. Let the simulacra of your monk get captured. Assuming the lich doesn't give back your crew right away, use the distraction to rescue them. Sail away. :cool: Just a suggestion. Dear OP, If you do anything I suggest either that (in the quote) or what Shard of Suzail has said. Um... I had more to say but I forgot it now. I will edit if I remember.
Shard of Suzail 02-06-05, 05:22 PM	*slips Crilley 5 Platinum Pieces*
King_of_the_squirrels 02-06-05, 05:44 PM	we have a similar character in our group, so i know how you feel (if not worse). I think monks in general are just annoying :headexplo .
Darth Tucan 02-07-05, 05:10 PM	:raincloud I here ya, I say kill him if you can. I have a charater like that in my party. Runs up and kills a challeng rating 30+ on level 11 in one attack averaging 300+ damage. I've tried to kill him, on occasions, unsuccessfully because he's also the dm, as soon as I get the upperhand he stops me using his dm powers.
Darth Tucan 02-07-05, 05:13 PM	Hey, Mr. King, tell him about the player in our group. (i didn't see your post the first time :( )
Veton 02-07-05, 06:07 PM	100,000 GP is a LOT of gold. Raise Dead is what, 3000? Price on your party arsehole's head: 100,000 GP. Price of Raise Dead spell: 3000 GP. Your lives safe from an angry lich: Party arsehole, alive. The look on the party arsehole PC's player's face when he realizes you killed him for the bounty on his head, used a spell that drops him a level to bring him back to life, brought him back to life inside deblitating manicles that prevent spellcasting, and handed him over to a lich? Priceless. There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's SigilCard, proud sponser of BBEGs everywhere. There's only two things wrong with that plan: 1. You can't raise someone who isn't willing to come back. 2. Do you really want an already powerful PC on the side of a lich who could give him even more power?
DraytonThain 02-07-05, 07:14 PM	yah veton yer #2 is just the reason why my character was having the dilema. but i dont think my character will be having a dilema anymore. we were thinking of going and checking out some wharehouse where supposedly vampires had set up shop. i guess these vampires have some of the crew and prob know something about the lich who has been haunting this thread. but.. ...the druid decided to take it upon himself to bring a tornado down upon the warehouse, causing mass destruction in the area, hurting and quite possibly killing many innocent people. :eek: now, my character aint really a GOOD guy...but damn he feels just terrible about this and is not sure he can actually hang around with people that go "blasting" this and that without thinking about what could happen. Would any here consider what the druid did to be an evil act? or is there some druid anti-city excuse cuz he is CN?? retirement may indeed be in order. the thing with THAT is we come in at first level so the party would be losing 12 levels of halfling goodness. 1st level man!! :ahem:
True Archon 02-10-05, 07:42 AM	DOH! I was under the impression that this was a problem player, not a problem character! BIG DIFFERENCE ON HOW TO DEAL WITH IT! In that case... Roleplay it how ever you want to (or your character would react). Honestly, from the postings, your character doesn't sound like the "stab the guy in the back-type." Even though the monk is a jerk, your character felt guilty for innocent lives being taken by the druid, and your character didn't even do it! Thus, I really don't see your character seriously thinking about going that route (maybe as a brief thought, but his "reality check" will take over). Also, though your DM doesn't have problems with PCs killing PCs, it's generally not a good idea in most groups. As you said, it's bad on party morale. Especially, if the players are rather attached to their characters. You could have your character retire, as you've said. Or your character can take a more active role on how the party makes it's decisions (imagine the halfling standing on a soap box, pointing his finger down at his party, and ordering them to be more discreet and thoughtful of their actions). Or your character can become mad with grief over the innocent lives that have been lost, and his involvement with their deaths, and then he becomes the thorn in the party's side by making his own irrational decisions. Also, if your halfling is rather disappointed at the loss of his guild status, he should go back before the guild leaders and petition that he be reinstated with the understanding that he will utilize the guild's resources and not his party. OH YEAH! One more piece of advice for you halfling rogue! If he does encounter the lich.... don't try to sneak attack him! :D :P
True Archon 02-10-05, 07:51 AM	...the druid decided to take it upon himself to bring a tornado down upon the warehouse, causing mass destruction in the area, hurting and quite possibly killing many innocent people. :eek: now, my character aint really a GOOD guy...but damn he feels just terrible about this and is not sure he can actually hang around with people that go "blasting" this and that without thinking about what could happen. Would any here consider what the druid did to be an evil act? or is there some druid anti-city excuse cuz he is CN?? I wouldn't consider it an evil act on the part of the druid... unless he knew that there were innocent people that could be killed and still cast the spell. Also, if he didn't think about the innocent lives to be risked, cast the spell, saw the devastation, and still didn't care that his spell caused so much grief... would be evil in my opinion. There's a difference between evil actions, and.... I don't want to say stupid... how about... not-so-thought-out actions.