killing mr big "T" [Archive] - Wizards Community

killing mr big "T" [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ezze88
02-12-04, 06:50 PM whats the easiest way to kil mr i eat everything in site?
:confused:
Eldren
02-12-04, 07:56 PM I'm presuming, from your signature, that you mean the tarrasque?

The easiest way to kill it is the exact way noted in the Monster Manual. Reduce it to its nonlethal damage total +10 (or 868 hit points), and then use Wish or Miracle to keep it dead.

This, however, makes little sense to me, to kill the tarrasque using only nonlethal damage. Sure, it'll make those blokes from the Book of Exalted Deeds who took the "Vow of Peace" feat really happy, but it makes little sense, when confronted with something like the tarrasque, to start dealing what was in 3.0 called "subdual damage".

So I say that you do normal damage and reduce it to -10 hit points, and then use Wish or Miracle to put paid to it. This is the way it's been done ever since the thing first showed up in the 1st Edition Monster Manual II.
Dex The King
02-12-04, 08:01 PM You can't deal normal damage to the tarrasque, it's regeneration automatically converts all damage done to it to nonlethal damage. This is the damage that needs to be raised to 10 more than its normal hit point total. A wish or miracle right there is how to kill Mr. T.
Serene Selene
02-14-04, 12:43 AM I pity the foo' who be trying to kill Mr. T, 'cause his van be fast, sucka'.
Vaalingrade Ashland
02-14-04, 12:47 AM Originally posted by Serene Selene
I pity the foo' who be trying to kill Mr. T, 'cause his van be fast, sucka'.

:D

PSA: the Tarrasque is a female. That makes her Miss T.
Nytmare
02-14-04, 08:10 AM But she still don't take no jibba jabba.
DM Zoc
02-14-04, 09:00 AM I always figured that a horde (100-200) of Pixies could do it fairly easily.

Pixie sleep arrow does not have a HD cap on what it takes down, but it does have a fairly low save DC. By throwing 100 arrows at it, you're virtually assured that it will critically fail at least once. Then, the pixies can polymorph into strong things and drop it into a volcano (which although it does no damage, effectively defeats the Tarrasque on the basis that it cannot move; static pressure under a fairly dense and viscous fluid).
ezze88
02-14-04, 01:11 PM the tarrasque is a guy, from where would you bring up that da main man, or should i say monster, is a female:nonono:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
02-14-04, 09:08 PM Originally posted by ezze88
the tarrasque is a guy, from where would you bring up that da main man, or should i say monster, is a female:nonono:

Because every so often it goes on a violent rampage? :D

*Ducks to avoids hail of arrows, fruit, boulders, chainsaws, and nukes*

Note: No harm was meant with this post. It was a joke playing on well-known stereotypes. This is not what I think. Please don't kill me.
unusualsuspect
02-15-04, 12:19 AM How about because the myth of the Tarrasque consisted of an ugly, female monster called the tarrasque?

French, i think it was. Those crazy french people.
Nytmare
02-15-04, 01:00 AM Yeah I'm looking and not seeing anything refering to it as female. Wikipedia has it listed amongst other things as having the face of an old man. Can anyone find a copy of the story in the original French? Anyone here from Tarascon?

http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200303/0743435982__10.htm
Silimaure
02-15-04, 09:01 PM Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
Because every so often it goes on a violent rampage? :D

*Ducks to avoids hail of arrows, fruit, boulders, chainsaws, and nukes*

Note: No harm was meant with this post. It was a joke playing on well-known stereotypes. This is not what I think. Please don't kill me.

<claps>
:tiphat:
tarkin
02-16-04, 10:43 AM Easiest way to fight the Tarrasque

Spell caster only.

1) Spell your self up. You will want Stone skin and Protection from acid.

2) Have and plan on using the feat Still Spell.

3) Allow yourself to be SWALLOWED WHOLE

4) Point out that much of the Tarrasque's defenses consist of a hard shell that reflects magic. Point out that you are INSIDE the Tarrasque and it does NOT have that skin in it's stomach.

5) Blast away using spells that would not affect it if cast from the outside.

6) Laugh drunkennly/ manicly as only a really drunk/insane spell caster does this cool trick.

P.S. Read the errata explaining that the tarrasque does NOT convert all physical damage into subdual damage that it is immune to.
Beamup
02-16-04, 12:36 PM Originally posted by tarkin
[b]P.S. Read the errata explaining that the tarrasque does NOT convert all physical damage into subdual damage that it is immune to.

What erratum would that be? The 3.0 MM errata specifically state that no form of attack deals normal damage to the Tarrasque, and the 3.5 errata don't mention it at all.

No way around it. The Tarrasque DOES convert ALL damage, including physical, into subdual.
Asta Kask
02-17-04, 04:41 AM Stirges. Lots and lots of them.
Stardust
02-17-04, 09:11 AM I always wondered you could just teleport it into space and see if your DM gives a saving throw against explosive decompression?

This is of course, if your DM allows the teleporting of unwillings (not sure that I would)

You know what? I'll shut up...
Beamup
02-17-04, 12:09 PM Originally posted by Stardust
I always wondered you could just teleport it into space and see if your DM gives a saving throw against explosive decompression?

This is of course, if your DM allows the teleporting of unwillings (not sure that I would)

You know what? I'll shut up...

Redefining Teleport is the least of your worries. You have to have FORTY-EIGHT caster levels to Teleport a Colossal being... so far into Epic levels you could research an unwilling Teleport VERY easily.

Not to mention the fact that you have to come along...
Edymnion
02-17-04, 02:33 PM Check the Monster Lair board, this comes up every other week, and I believe there is an active thread over there already.

Short answer though is, unless you're Epic, you don't. If the big guy is played to his intelligence and the DM doesn't just let you win, you have no hopes of killing the thing. Thats sorta the entire point.
SiegeSage
02-17-04, 02:33 PM There are two methods to kill the tarasque. Damage (or Insta Kill) that reduces it to -10HP (Insta kill only reduces it to -10HP, not death) followed by a wish. Or Suffocation.

Your only low level (no wish/miracle) way to kill the Tarrasque is to lure it into an airtight pit bigger than itself, then seal it off. You can calculate how long it will take to die based on it's constitution.
Edymnion
02-17-04, 02:47 PM Originally posted by SiegeSage
There are two methods to kill the tarasque. Damage (or Insta Kill) that reduces it to -10HP (Insta kill only reduces it to -10HP, not death) followed by a wish.One problem though. You have to get it down to -30, real damage. Any instant-death effect will only take him down to -10. You still have to do another 20 points of Real damage (which is extremely hard since he only takes subdual damage) before he regenerates and wakes back up. Sorry, no dice.
Or Suffocation.

Your only low level (no wish/miracle) way to kill the Tarrasque is to lure it into an airtight pit bigger than itself, then seal it off. You can calculate how long it will take to die based on it's constitution. I did the calculations for this over in the Monster Lair via a pit filling up with water. T can simply attack the walls of your airtight pit and tear it to shreds in very little time. It would take days for a pit large enough to fit the Tarrasque in to fill with water, and weeks for the air to run out. T can rip the walls of the pit down and plow his way out of the top of any believable pit within hours.

Again, no dice.
Other people say flying archers are the way to go. T has an int of 3, thats low end PC grade intelligence. More than enough for it to form tactics and plans. If you fly over it and pelt it with arrows, it will either:

A) Rip up trees and rocks to throw at you. And with his massive attack bonus, you can bet he's going to hit. Lets see you stay in th air after a freaking tree lands on you.

B) Run away. Yeah, he's got a slow move speed. But he can't stand the heat, he can use his burst of speed to get out of the kitchen. Nothing short of Teleporting will let you catch up with him after that (you cannot run or fly that fast), so at the very least he's going to get a couple of free rounds to regenerate in.

And the 3.5 Tarrasque is immune to ability damage, so Stirges don't work either (thank god).

Again, a Tarrasque that is played to his Intelligence (he is far smarter than any animal on the face of the earth) is going to be next to impossible to beat unless you are Epic Level. Only way to beat him at lower levels if essentially if the DM lets you win, and where's the fun in that?
Palin the Wizard
02-17-04, 04:12 PM Originally posted by Beamup
What erratum would that be? The 3.0 MM errata specifically state that no form of attack deals normal damage to the Tarrasque, and the 3.5 errata don't mention it at all.

No way around it. The Tarrasque DOES convert ALL damage, including physical, into subdual. :rolleyes:

"Normal" damage, as it is referred to in the Tarrasque entry (and the Troll entry, for closest comparison) is the kind of damage its regeneration ability won't heal.

Yes, the Tarrasque regenerates a whopping amount of damage per round and it will heal anything eventually. But where in the world do you get the idea it can't be dealt lethal damage? You can easily give it lethal damage--just hack at it with a sword (of course, one that can pierce its damage reduction).

[Edit: Clarification.]
Beamup
02-17-04, 04:31 PM Originally posted by Palin the Wizard
:rolleyes:

"Normal" damage, as it is referred to in the Tarrasque entry (and the Troll entry, for closest comparison) is the kind of damage its regeneration ability won't heal.

Yes, the Tarrasque regenerates a whopping amount of damage per round and it will heal anything eventually. But where in the world do you get the idea it can't be dealt lethal damage? You can easily give it lethal damage--just hack at it with a sword (of course, one that can pierce its damage reduction).

[Edit: Clarification.]

Because that's the bloody DEFINITION of regeneration. ALL damage, other than that specified in the regeneration entry, converts into nonlethal/subdual damage. Only attack forms listed as doing damage normally do lethal damage to a creature with regeneration. Since no form of attack does normal damage to the Tarrasque, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INFLICT LETHAL DAMAGE ON IT BY ANY MEANS!

Just take one single glance at the MM entry (or at the definition of regeneration.) It's right there in black & white: "NO FORM OF ATTACK DOES LETHAL DAMAGE TO THE TARRASQUE."

Edit: Here's the quote from the SRD on regeneration that you apparently have no understanding of:
Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate.
Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away.
Palin the Wizard
02-17-04, 05:02 PM Originally posted by Beamup
Because that's the bloody DEFINITION of regeneration. ALL damage, other than that specified in the regeneration entry, converts into nonlethal/subdual damage. Only attack forms listed as doing damage normally do lethal damage to a creature with regeneration. Since no form of attack does normal damage to the Tarrasque, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INFLICT LETHAL DAMAGE ON IT BY ANY MEANS! Yes, that is true, but only up to a certain point. In the Tarrasque's case, that is 40 points of damage per round; check the SRD if you wont believe me. If you deal it more than 40 points of damage in a single round, it cannot convert those excess points of damage to non-lethal damage, and thus they remain--as lethal damage.

Originally posted by Beamup
Just take one single glance at the MM entry (or at the definition of regeneration.) It's right there in black & white: "NO FORM OF ATTACK DOES LETHAL DAMAGE TO THE TARRASQUE." As long as that damage does not exceed the limit the Tarrasque has to its regeneration ability, you are correct. However, if it exceeds it, the lethal damage must remain.

It's a very simple mathmatical equation.

y = total damage dealt at the end of the round.
x = damage dealt.
z = regeneration.

y = x - z
Beamup
02-17-04, 05:06 PM Originally posted by Palin the Wizard
Yes, that is true, but only up to a certain point. In the Tarrasque's case, that is 40 points of damage per round; check the SRD if you wont believe me. If you deal it more than 40 points of damage in a single round, it cannot convert those excess points of damage to non-lethal damage, and thus they remain--as lethal damage.

As long as that damage does not exceed the limit the Tarrasque has to its regeneration ability, you are correct. However, if it exceeds it, the lethal damage must remain.

It's a very simple mathmatical equation.

Absolutely not. Read the regeneration entry in the SRD (apparently you haven't, even though you refer me to it!). I've quoted the relevant section above. ALL damage not of the listed type becomes nonlethal. Then that nonlethal damage is healed at the listed rate.

READ THE QUOTE (and, if you care to, the rest of the Regeneration entry - but I've quoted the relevant portion).

ALL damage is converted to nonlethal. That nonlethal damage heals at a fixed rate per round. THAT'S IT.
Palin the Wizard
02-17-04, 05:12 PM Read the quote yourself. "Treated as" is not "converted" or "becomes". The wording is clearly chosen for the context alone; the quote goes on to state that these nonlethal points are cured at a fixed rate.
Beamup
02-17-04, 05:15 PM Originally posted by Palin the Wizard
Read the quote yourself. "Treated as" is not "converted" or "becomes". The wording is clearly chosen for the context alone; the quote goes on to state that these nonlethal points are cured at a fixed rate.

"Treated as" IS "converted." In fact, a bit later in the description it specifically uses the term "converted."

There is quite simply no way at all to read the rules to mean anything vaugely similar to what you're claiming.

LOOK AT IT. Does it EVER say only a certain amount is treated as subdual? No, it expressly says ALL damage is treated as subdual. The Tarrasque entry expressly says NO attack deals lethal damage. It also expressly says the only way to kill it is nonlethal+wish/miracle.

At every step of the way, the entries very explicitly contradict your [interpretation].

(edited to remove inappropriate phrasing)
Palin the Wizard
02-17-04, 05:20 PM "whacked-out pipe dream fantasy"?

You certainly have an elegance in presenting an argument.

Now that I read it a bit closer, I see you are correct in your assessment of the regeneration ability and I am wrong, HOWEVER, that is NO cause for your insulting behaviour.
Beamup
02-17-04, 05:26 PM Originally posted by Palin the Wizard
"whacked-out pipe dream fantasy"?

You certainly have an elegance in presenting an argument.

Now that I read it a bit closer, I see you are correct in your assessment of the regeneration ability and I am wrong, HOWEVER, that is NO cause for your insulting behaviour.

You're right, that phrase was uncalled for and I apologize. I just get very annoyed when people keep arguing demonstrably wrong positions without any support for them.
Palin the Wizard
02-17-04, 05:33 PM Then cool off and read what you are writing before you post it; that's what I do. I have a terrible temper, so if I don't re-evaluate my wording constantly, I will frequently get into trouble over trivial matters.

The reason I didn't understand what you meant the first time was that I was certain my interpretation was correct (which is not the case). It has happened before; it's my own fault for not checking that what I'm saying is actually correct.
Brillock of Ithicus
02-17-04, 11:34 PM cooperatly steal the MM guide from the DM and swollow whole the page that has the tarasque stats on it... haha... mmmm
bitnine
02-18-04, 03:36 AM Would it be considered cheap to have a druid sneak by in bird form and snipe at the poor big lug with extended miasmas?
BenjCano
02-18-04, 03:41 AM Originally posted by bitnine
Would it be considered cheap to have a druid sneak by in bird form and snipe at the poor big lug with extended miasmas?

Prolly. Doesn't make it any less effective, though.
Phist
02-18-04, 11:19 AM I once heard of it being done with the portable hole in a bag of holding (or vice-versa, can't remember) trick. Yes, it's still alive and probably ripping people up on the astral plain, but that's not our problem.:D
dmdarkdragon
02-18-04, 11:32 AM Well, since the starter of the topic was asking for the easiest way to kill the Tarrasque, I have a good way:

First off, become a god.

Gain enough divine power to learn the Hand of Death salient divine ability.

Find the Tarrasque.

Concentrate on it dying, and snuff out it's life force.

You're all done!

And no big effort on your part (if you don't count having to ascend to divinity)
dantedarkstar
02-18-04, 12:21 PM I only don't understand WHY everyone wants to kill T.

Cute lil' Dominate Monster works waaay better. How do you like my pet Tarrasque ? (with approximately at least 5 Dominate Monster cast on him - cast daily or more often to assure he will fail some and have at last about 5 active at any time - you don't want to take risks :D )
SiegeSage
02-18-04, 02:54 PM I fully agree that the Tarrasque can rip through/dig out of almost any pit, but if the pit comes filled, and the sides are Walls of force - then it works. (I know, not likely)

If you can deal the 850 damageto knock it unconscious (or get it to fail a SoD spell), continue to beat on the tarrasque (keeping it unconscious) till you've dragged it into some sort of Volcano. Once you drop it in - the magma dealing 20d6 damage/rnd should do the 40/rnd necessary to keep it unconscious till it suffocates.

Essentially a volcano (magma pool) is the only kind of pit that will work to keep the Tarrasque inside it, while suffocating it. (I will not take responsibility for how you get it to the volcano) ;)
Phist
02-18-04, 08:19 PM Do you think the bag of holding/portable hole trick would work? I'm not sure I belive the guy that told me about using it on mr T.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ezze88 02-12-04, 06:50 PM	whats the easiest way to kil mr i eat everything in site? :confused:
Eldren 02-12-04, 07:56 PM	I'm presuming, from your signature, that you mean the tarrasque? The easiest way to kill it is the exact way noted in the Monster Manual. Reduce it to its nonlethal damage total +10 (or 868 hit points), and then use Wish or Miracle to keep it dead. This, however, makes little sense to me, to kill the tarrasque using only nonlethal damage. Sure, it'll make those blokes from the Book of Exalted Deeds who took the "Vow of Peace" feat really happy, but it makes little sense, when confronted with something like the tarrasque, to start dealing what was in 3.0 called "subdual damage". So I say that you do normal damage and reduce it to -10 hit points, and then use Wish or Miracle to put paid to it. This is the way it's been done ever since the thing first showed up in the 1st Edition Monster Manual II.
Dex The King 02-12-04, 08:01 PM	You can't deal normal damage to the tarrasque, it's regeneration automatically converts all damage done to it to nonlethal damage. This is the damage that needs to be raised to 10 more than its normal hit point total. A wish or miracle right there is how to kill Mr. T.
Serene Selene 02-14-04, 12:43 AM	I pity the foo' who be trying to kill Mr. T, 'cause his van be fast, sucka'.
Vaalingrade Ashland 02-14-04, 12:47 AM	Originally posted by Serene Selene I pity the foo' who be trying to kill Mr. T, 'cause his van be fast, sucka'. :D PSA: the Tarrasque is a female. That makes her Miss T.
Nytmare 02-14-04, 08:10 AM	But she still don't take no jibba jabba.
DM Zoc 02-14-04, 09:00 AM	I always figured that a horde (100-200) of Pixies could do it fairly easily. Pixie sleep arrow does not have a HD cap on what it takes down, but it does have a fairly low save DC. By throwing 100 arrows at it, you're virtually assured that it will critically fail at least once. Then, the pixies can polymorph into strong things and drop it into a volcano (which although it does no damage, effectively defeats the Tarrasque on the basis that it cannot move; static pressure under a fairly dense and viscous fluid).
ezze88 02-14-04, 01:11 PM	the tarrasque is a guy, from where would you bring up that da main man, or should i say monster, is a female:nonono:
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 02-14-04, 09:08 PM	Originally posted by ezze88 the tarrasque is a guy, from where would you bring up that da main man, or should i say monster, is a female:nonono: Because every so often it goes on a violent rampage? :D Ducks to avoids hail of arrows, fruit, boulders, chainsaws, and nukes Note: No harm was meant with this post. It was a joke playing on well-known stereotypes. This is not what I think. Please don't kill me.
unusualsuspect 02-15-04, 12:19 AM	How about because the myth of the Tarrasque consisted of an ugly, female monster called the tarrasque? French, i think it was. Those crazy french people.
Nytmare 02-15-04, 01:00 AM	Yeah I'm looking and not seeing anything refering to it as female. Wikipedia has it listed amongst other things as having the face of an old man. Can anyone find a copy of the story in the original French? Anyone here from Tarascon? http://www.baen.com/chapters/W200303/0743435982__10.htm
Silimaure 02-15-04, 09:01 PM	Originally posted by Raymond_Luxury_Yacht Because every so often it goes on a violent rampage? :D Ducks to avoids hail of arrows, fruit, boulders, chainsaws, and nukes Note: No harm was meant with this post. It was a joke playing on well-known stereotypes. This is not what I think. Please don't kill me. <claps> :tiphat:
tarkin 02-16-04, 10:43 AM	Easiest way to fight the Tarrasque Spell caster only. 1) Spell your self up. You will want Stone skin and Protection from acid. 2) Have and plan on using the feat Still Spell. 3) Allow yourself to be SWALLOWED WHOLE 4) Point out that much of the Tarrasque's defenses consist of a hard shell that reflects magic. Point out that you are INSIDE the Tarrasque and it does NOT have that skin in it's stomach. 5) Blast away using spells that would not affect it if cast from the outside. 6) Laugh drunkennly/ manicly as only a really drunk/insane spell caster does this cool trick. P.S. Read the errata explaining that the tarrasque does NOT convert all physical damage into subdual damage that it is immune to.
Beamup 02-16-04, 12:36 PM	Originally posted by tarkin [b]P.S. Read the errata explaining that the tarrasque does NOT convert all physical damage into subdual damage that it is immune to. What erratum would that be? The 3.0 MM errata specifically state that no form of attack deals normal damage to the Tarrasque, and the 3.5 errata don't mention it at all. No way around it. The Tarrasque DOES convert ALL damage, including physical, into subdual.
Asta Kask 02-17-04, 04:41 AM	Stirges. Lots and lots of them.
Stardust 02-17-04, 09:11 AM	I always wondered you could just teleport it into space and see if your DM gives a saving throw against explosive decompression? This is of course, if your DM allows the teleporting of unwillings (not sure that I would) You know what? I'll shut up...
Beamup 02-17-04, 12:09 PM	Originally posted by Stardust I always wondered you could just teleport it into space and see if your DM gives a saving throw against explosive decompression? This is of course, if your DM allows the teleporting of unwillings (not sure that I would) You know what? I'll shut up... Redefining Teleport is the least of your worries. You have to have FORTY-EIGHT caster levels to Teleport a Colossal being... so far into Epic levels you could research an unwilling Teleport VERY easily. Not to mention the fact that you have to come along...
Edymnion 02-17-04, 02:33 PM	Check the Monster Lair board, this comes up every other week, and I believe there is an active thread over there already. Short answer though is, unless you're Epic, you don't. If the big guy is played to his intelligence and the DM doesn't just let you win, you have no hopes of killing the thing. Thats sorta the entire point.
SiegeSage 02-17-04, 02:33 PM	There are two methods to kill the tarasque. Damage (or Insta Kill) that reduces it to -10HP (Insta kill only reduces it to -10HP, not death) followed by a wish. Or Suffocation. Your only low level (no wish/miracle) way to kill the Tarrasque is to lure it into an airtight pit bigger than itself, then seal it off. You can calculate how long it will take to die based on it's constitution.
Edymnion 02-17-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by SiegeSage There are two methods to kill the tarasque. Damage (or Insta Kill) that reduces it to -10HP (Insta kill only reduces it to -10HP, not death) followed by a wish.One problem though. You have to get it down to -30, real damage. Any instant-death effect will only take him down to -10. You still have to do another 20 points of Real damage (which is extremely hard since he only takes subdual damage) before he regenerates and wakes back up. Sorry, no dice. Or Suffocation. Your only low level (no wish/miracle) way to kill the Tarrasque is to lure it into an airtight pit bigger than itself, then seal it off. You can calculate how long it will take to die based on it's constitution. I did the calculations for this over in the Monster Lair via a pit filling up with water. T can simply attack the walls of your airtight pit and tear it to shreds in very little time. It would take days for a pit large enough to fit the Tarrasque in to fill with water, and weeks for the air to run out. T can rip the walls of the pit down and plow his way out of the top of any believable pit within hours. Again, no dice. Other people say flying archers are the way to go. T has an int of 3, thats low end PC grade intelligence. More than enough for it to form tactics and plans. If you fly over it and pelt it with arrows, it will either: A) Rip up trees and rocks to throw at you. And with his massive attack bonus, you can bet he's going to hit. Lets see you stay in th air after a freaking tree lands on you. B) Run away. Yeah, he's got a slow move speed. But he can't stand the heat, he can use his burst of speed to get out of the kitchen. Nothing short of Teleporting will let you catch up with him after that (you cannot run or fly that fast), so at the very least he's going to get a couple of free rounds to regenerate in. And the 3.5 Tarrasque is immune to ability damage, so Stirges don't work either (thank god). Again, a Tarrasque that is played to his Intelligence (he is far smarter than any animal on the face of the earth) is going to be next to impossible to beat unless you are Epic Level. Only way to beat him at lower levels if essentially if the DM lets you win, and where's the fun in that?
Palin the Wizard 02-17-04, 04:12 PM	Originally posted by Beamup What erratum would that be? The 3.0 MM errata specifically state that no form of attack deals normal damage to the Tarrasque, and the 3.5 errata don't mention it at all. No way around it. The Tarrasque DOES convert ALL damage, including physical, into subdual. :rolleyes: "Normal" damage, as it is referred to in the Tarrasque entry (and the Troll entry, for closest comparison) is the kind of damage its regeneration ability won't heal. Yes, the Tarrasque regenerates a whopping amount of damage per round and it will heal anything eventually. But where in the world do you get the idea it can't be dealt lethal damage? You can easily give it lethal damage--just hack at it with a sword (of course, one that can pierce its damage reduction). [Edit: Clarification.]
Beamup 02-17-04, 04:31 PM	Originally posted by Palin the Wizard :rolleyes: "Normal" damage, as it is referred to in the Tarrasque entry (and the Troll entry, for closest comparison) is the kind of damage its regeneration ability won't heal. Yes, the Tarrasque regenerates a whopping amount of damage per round and it will heal anything eventually. But where in the world do you get the idea it can't be dealt lethal damage? You can easily give it lethal damage--just hack at it with a sword (of course, one that can pierce its damage reduction). [Edit: Clarification.] Because that's the bloody DEFINITION of regeneration. ALL damage, other than that specified in the regeneration entry, converts into nonlethal/subdual damage. Only attack forms listed as doing damage normally do lethal damage to a creature with regeneration. Since no form of attack does normal damage to the Tarrasque, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INFLICT LETHAL DAMAGE ON IT BY ANY MEANS! Just take one single glance at the MM entry (or at the definition of regeneration.) It's right there in black & white: "NO FORM OF ATTACK DOES LETHAL DAMAGE TO THE TARRASQUE." Edit: Here's the quote from the SRD on regeneration that you apparently have no understanding of: Damage dealt to the creature is treated as nonlethal damage, and the creature automatically cures itself of nonlethal damage at a fixed rate. Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, deal damage to the creature normally; that sort of damage doesn’t convert to nonlethal damage and so doesn’t go away.
Palin the Wizard 02-17-04, 05:02 PM	Originally posted by Beamup Because that's the bloody DEFINITION of regeneration. ALL damage, other than that specified in the regeneration entry, converts into nonlethal/subdual damage. Only attack forms listed as doing damage normally do lethal damage to a creature with regeneration. Since no form of attack does normal damage to the Tarrasque, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO INFLICT LETHAL DAMAGE ON IT BY ANY MEANS! Yes, that is true, but only up to a certain point. In the Tarrasque's case, that is 40 points of damage per round; check the SRD if you wont believe me. If you deal it more than 40 points of damage in a single round, it cannot convert those excess points of damage to non-lethal damage, and thus they remain--as lethal damage. Originally posted by Beamup Just take one single glance at the MM entry (or at the definition of regeneration.) It's right there in black & white: "NO FORM OF ATTACK DOES LETHAL DAMAGE TO THE TARRASQUE." As long as that damage does not exceed the limit the Tarrasque has to its regeneration ability, you are correct. However, if it exceeds it, the lethal damage must remain. It's a very simple mathmatical equation. y = total damage dealt at the end of the round. x = damage dealt. z = regeneration. y = x - z
Beamup 02-17-04, 05:06 PM	Originally posted by Palin the Wizard Yes, that is true, but only up to a certain point. In the Tarrasque's case, that is 40 points of damage per round; check the SRD if you wont believe me. If you deal it more than 40 points of damage in a single round, it cannot convert those excess points of damage to non-lethal damage, and thus they remain--as lethal damage. As long as that damage does not exceed the limit the Tarrasque has to its regeneration ability, you are correct. However, if it exceeds it, the lethal damage must remain. It's a very simple mathmatical equation. Absolutely not. Read the regeneration entry in the SRD (apparently you haven't, even though you refer me to it!). I've quoted the relevant section above. ALL damage not of the listed type becomes nonlethal. Then that nonlethal damage is healed at the listed rate. READ THE QUOTE (and, if you care to, the rest of the Regeneration entry - but I've quoted the relevant portion). ALL damage is converted to nonlethal. That nonlethal damage heals at a fixed rate per round. THAT'S IT.
Palin the Wizard 02-17-04, 05:12 PM	Read the quote yourself. "Treated as" is not "converted" or "becomes". The wording is clearly chosen for the context alone; the quote goes on to state that these nonlethal points are cured at a fixed rate.
Beamup 02-17-04, 05:15 PM	Originally posted by Palin the Wizard Read the quote yourself. "Treated as" is not "converted" or "becomes". The wording is clearly chosen for the context alone; the quote goes on to state that these nonlethal points are cured at a fixed rate. "Treated as" IS "converted." In fact, a bit later in the description it specifically uses the term "converted." There is quite simply no way at all to read the rules to mean anything vaugely similar to what you're claiming. LOOK AT IT. Does it EVER say only a certain amount is treated as subdual? No, it expressly says ALL damage is treated as subdual. The Tarrasque entry expressly says NO attack deals lethal damage. It also expressly says the only way to kill it is nonlethal+wish/miracle. At every step of the way, the entries very explicitly contradict your [interpretation]. (edited to remove inappropriate phrasing)
Palin the Wizard 02-17-04, 05:20 PM	"whacked-out pipe dream fantasy"? You certainly have an elegance in presenting an argument. Now that I read it a bit closer, I see you are correct in your assessment of the regeneration ability and I am wrong, HOWEVER, that is NO cause for your insulting behaviour.
Beamup 02-17-04, 05:26 PM	Originally posted by Palin the Wizard "whacked-out pipe dream fantasy"? You certainly have an elegance in presenting an argument. Now that I read it a bit closer, I see you are correct in your assessment of the regeneration ability and I am wrong, HOWEVER, that is NO cause for your insulting behaviour. You're right, that phrase was uncalled for and I apologize. I just get very annoyed when people keep arguing demonstrably wrong positions without any support for them.
Palin the Wizard 02-17-04, 05:33 PM	Then cool off and read what you are writing before you post it; that's what I do. I have a terrible temper, so if I don't re-evaluate my wording constantly, I will frequently get into trouble over trivial matters. The reason I didn't understand what you meant the first time was that I was certain my interpretation was correct (which is not the case). It has happened before; it's my own fault for not checking that what I'm saying is actually correct.
Brillock of Ithicus 02-17-04, 11:34 PM	cooperatly steal the MM guide from the DM and swollow whole the page that has the tarasque stats on it... haha... mmmm
bitnine 02-18-04, 03:36 AM	Would it be considered cheap to have a druid sneak by in bird form and snipe at the poor big lug with extended miasmas?
BenjCano 02-18-04, 03:41 AM	Originally posted by bitnine Would it be considered cheap to have a druid sneak by in bird form and snipe at the poor big lug with extended miasmas? Prolly. Doesn't make it any less effective, though.
Phist 02-18-04, 11:19 AM	I once heard of it being done with the portable hole in a bag of holding (or vice-versa, can't remember) trick. Yes, it's still alive and probably ripping people up on the astral plain, but that's not our problem.:D
dmdarkdragon 02-18-04, 11:32 AM	Well, since the starter of the topic was asking for the easiest way to kill the Tarrasque, I have a good way: First off, become a god. Gain enough divine power to learn the Hand of Death salient divine ability. Find the Tarrasque. Concentrate on it dying, and snuff out it's life force. You're all done! And no big effort on your part (if you don't count having to ascend to divinity)
dantedarkstar 02-18-04, 12:21 PM	I only don't understand WHY everyone wants to kill T. Cute lil' Dominate Monster works waaay better. How do you like my pet Tarrasque ? (with approximately at least 5 Dominate Monster cast on him - cast daily or more often to assure he will fail some and have at last about 5 active at any time - you don't want to take risks :D )
SiegeSage 02-18-04, 02:54 PM	I fully agree that the Tarrasque can rip through/dig out of almost any pit, but if the pit comes filled, and the sides are Walls of force - then it works. (I know, not likely) If you can deal the 850 damageto knock it unconscious (or get it to fail a SoD spell), continue to beat on the tarrasque (keeping it unconscious) till you've dragged it into some sort of Volcano. Once you drop it in - the magma dealing 20d6 damage/rnd should do the 40/rnd necessary to keep it unconscious till it suffocates. Essentially a volcano (magma pool) is the only kind of pit that will work to keep the Tarrasque inside it, while suffocating it. (I will not take responsibility for how you get it to the volcano) ;)
Phist 02-18-04, 08:19 PM	Do you think the bag of holding/portable hole trick would work? I'm not sure I belive the guy that told me about using it on mr T.